Wow...I'm surprised how many people here miss the point of Bruno and Borat

[eeyore]

Sasha Baron Cohen is a commando satirist. He is a master at giving people opportunity to expose their true anti-social values: racism, classism, homophobia, xenophobia, willingness to seek fame at all costs. Yes, he does goad people into exposing themselves through outrageous and stereotyped behavior, but he would have nothing to put on a screen were it not for his ability to get people to show their true and horrifying selves.

In my opinion, Sasha Baron Cohen is one of the most important artists of our day. He is documenting and exposing some of the worst of our society, things that people try very hard to hide in polite society.

I don't get it. This is a liberal board, and yet so many miss the point of his work. He is on our side, exposing the horrifying conservative values and shining a very bright light on them. Sometimes funny, sometimes horrifying, but most always poignant and thought provoking.

It's sad to me that so many can't see beyond his behavior to get to the real point of his work. There's some amazing commentary about our society there for those who are willing to take note.

[Flying Dream Blues]

1. See Archie Bunker. nt

[liberalmuse]

Exactly. n/t

[unblock]

23. quite a lot of people didn't get archie bunker, either.

myself included, when i saw it as a kid i hated it because my grandparents were EXACTLY like edith and archie. we always got into unpleasant arguments about some idiotic, often bigoted thing my grandfather would absolutely insist he was right on, despite all reason. meanwhile my grandmother would bring in cookies, oblivious to all the fighting. the show didn't seem like satire because it was nothing over the top about it, it was almost as if they had a camera on when we would visit my grandparents.

all in the family kinda struck too close to home when i was a kid.

years later, when i found out that the actor who protrayed archie was actually a liberal, the light went on, and i could appreciate the show for what it was and what it intended.

[misanthrope]

33. Where's the Edith equivalent in Borat or Bruno?...

...Because you do realize without her, "All In the Family" would have just been knuckleheads screaming at each other?

[eeyore]

91. He has partners in both that are his innocent foils

There actually is no screaming in either movie.

[BlooInBloo]

2. I can see that, but I can see it the other way, too. His stuff can be hard for even me to take.

[hlthe2b]

3. Cringe-inducing satire...

Colbert accomplishes the same with humor and without the needless and gratuitous cruelty. Borat was quite enough, thank you.

[WCGreen]

53. Very good point....

I liken him to candid camera with a very obnoxious streak.

We all know that people have hidden evilness and vile opinions. I don't need to have a vile, self serving ass hole to show me that.

He is simply a cruel man.

And quite frankly, it is the type of humor that appeals to the very people he is supposedly harpooning. The sanctimonious who harbor the same nastiness and laugh because they have yet to be caught...

[Baikonour]

68. Cruelty? Really?

The melodrama surrounding Bruno/Borat is hilarious.

[hlthe2b]

89. If you can not appreciate that Cohen sometimes goes too far

and his humor can become cruel, well, I am saddened for you.

Like the school yard bully, there is always an appreciative audience, I suppose.

[callous taoboy]

97. Cruel compared to some of the bile his "guests" spew?

Is it cruel for Borat to go into a redneck bar and sing a song with a line, "Throw the Jew down the well," and easily entice the audience to merrily sing that refrain about throwing Jews down a well?

[Romulox]

112. Cruel to *whom* exactly? Confused audience members? nt

[rfranklin]

4. He is also an obnoxious asshole....

I don not think that this guy has any noble aspirations. He wants notoriety, attention, money and fame. He just gets it by pushing people's buttons. If you're not homophobic or racist, he'll just keep annoying you until you react. He's the nightmare that you encounter at a social gathering. You try to be polite but he just keeps goading you until you lose it.

[monmouth]

10. Sort of like Perez Hilton. Another jerk....n/t

[misanthrope]

34. Exactly. Tom Green all over again**nm

**

[Lost-in-FL]

48. +1, Best comparison ever. nt

[eeyore]

92. Tom Greene is an obnoxious dolt with zero redeeming value

All Tom Greene seeks to do is piss people off. Baron Cohen has far more depth in his pinkey than Tom Green could ever dream of.

[callous taoboy]

45. You're entitled to your opinion, however

:eyes:

[Mojambo]

5. I can understand some being uncomfortable with watching it.

But people shouldn't deny how important this type of exposure of society is.

[Luminous Animal]

6. Most of the criticism that I have seen...

doesn't miss the point. Rather, they question the methods and possible results. You have seen the Code Pink, Cindy Sheehan, and Michael Moore bashing on DU, haven't you? Clearly, they are on our side but controversial, none-the-less, for their methods.

[Buzz Clik]

..

[Buzz Clik]

16. Code Pink-Sheehan-Moore vs Borat-Bruno? Now I'm lost.

[Luminous Animal]

27. The OP claims

that some DUers miss the point of "Bruno" and do not realize that, politically, he is on our side. I counter claim with the proposal that the critics of "Bruno" do not miss the point, but rather disagree with Cohen's methods of making that point. That is, they understand that "Bruno" is on our side, but find his methods counter-productive. To elaborate, I brought up other people who, ostensibly, are on our side but are often criticized for their methods here on DU.

[misanthrope]

35. Code Pink and Sheehan aren't trying to get rich off their methods...

...For Cohen, it's just an avenue to personal wealth and fame.

[malletgirl02]

37. I agree

Tom Green would be a better comparison.

[krabigirl]

7. I thought the movie was hilarious and the bigoted attitudes very scary.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. All I know about him is he's the voice of King Julian in Madagascar 2

and funny as hell.

Other than that, I know nothing about him.

[bedazzled]

96. i didn't realize he was the voice of king julien!

surprised there's something i like about him,
because i adore madagascar!

started to watch borat and couldn't get 5
minutes through. i think if it enters your
brain it's in there forever and i just couldn't
take it. no sense of humor, i guess

[EndersDame]

9. I would love to see him mess with Sarah Palin

She is soo dumb he would have a field day with her. I think her would probably get her to same things that would kill even a career with Fox News.

[scarletwoman]

11. Sorry, I fail to see him as anything other than an insufferably obnoxious attention whore. (nt)

[Buzz Clik]

17. errrr.... next you'll be shocked to find that politicians are power freaks.

[scarletwoman]

24. What a stupid rejoinder. It's no "shock" that an entertainer is an attention whore, anymore than

it's a shock that politicians are power freaks.

Just don't try to shuck and jive me with convoluted explanations about how some power freak or attention whore is actually serving a higher purpose and isn't just a self-serving obnoxious asshole when they are behaving like self-serving obnoxious assholes. I'm not buying it.

sw

[Raster]

26. Honey, you are one tough room to work.

:evilgrin:

[NightWatcher]

12. the satire cant be too good if you have to hit people over the head with it

I just didn't find Borat funny. I prefer my satire a tad more subtle with some intellectualism at it's root.

Bruno just looks like more of Borat, but you can only go to well so many times. In the same way, I found the 1st Jackass movie funny, but the 2nd a tad gratuitous

[ColbertWatcher]

79. "the satire cant be too good if you have to hit people over the head with it" Oh yeah, because ...

... people who are racist respond so willingly to reason.

I haven't seen Brüno, but I have seen Borat and both Jackasses. I agree that the second Jackass was poor, but that was because they were simply random skits strung together, the only common thread being the performers.

Borat on the other hand actually had a story (people either forget that or couldn't see it past all the "gags"). I'm hoping that Brüno will be the same thing.

[Peacetrain]

13. I can't even get past the commericals of his stuff.. it is so lame

Humor, true humor, is based in intellectual observation.

[Buzz Clik]

19. Really? The only true form of humor is based on intellectual observation?

Perhaps that's the only form of humor that appeals to you, but the list of comedic successes who did not base their humor on anything intellectual is very, very long. And even those who appeal to the highest sense of our intellect pepper their humor with some very silly humor as well.

[Peacetrain]

20. Good point..what appeals to me.

[callous taoboy]

44. What makes my brain vibrate with happiness is when

an actor, such as Cohen, or an acting troupe such as Kids in the Hall, hit you over the head repeatedly with both extremely deep social commentary and outrageous silliness. If people are offended by Bruno how did they ever make it through Kids in the Hall?

[ColbertWatcher]

80. De gustibus non est disputandum ...

[Schema Thing]

14. I agree with you totally...

but he's also making a movie, and sometimes (especially in Bruno) "advancing the plot-line" conflicts with and trumps "shining a light on backwards values".


For instance, the redneck hunters in Bruno were not over-the-top homophobic, but actually rather restrained. As was the black audience in the talk-show scene. I think Maury Povich or Oprah or just about any real day-time talk show could have done a better job of exposing the homophobia that infects *some* black culture.


OTOH, the stage-parent interviews were downright chilling as an example of some people's "willingness to seek fame at all costs".

[noamnety]

15. I think you are underestimating people here.

We get what your point is in your OP. TRUST ME. We get it.

But he is doing two things.

He's doing what you say, but he's also promoting the ugliest of caricatures or stereotypes. I ran into this issue at a school where we wanted an announcement that a gay-straight alliance exists. The natural inclination of the theatre department was to do a skit about it - one with a flaming ugly stereotype of a gay person as the main character, and then someone reacts negatively to them, and then there's a nice moral at the end - don't do this.

I put a stop to that, because it's really not helpful to have nonstop portrayals of gay people as swishy butts of jokes. I don't understand why they can't exist on stage the same way they do in real life, as having a range of personalities, and looking, gosh, I don't know - like normal people who blend into society?

When you overly dramatize negative stereotypes, what stays with people is often the stereotype, not the moral at the end. We really don't need more movies to say "Look, THIS is how gay people are - HAHAHAHHA look how extreme they are!!!! - Oh and some people are bigots, let's laugh at them."

The theatre teacher, she was on my side, too. But I didn't want her kind of help.

[cwydro]

22. Yes, what you said. nt

[tishaLA]

29. I'd say Bruno isn't about having a moral at the end though

and I say that in a positive way. I understand the desire for didactics, but Bruno is about exposure and description rather than prescription. That might make people uncomfortable, too, because some advocates of LGBT equality might believe that antihomophobic work requires a prescriptive element and Baron Cohen certainly disappoints if they really want that.

The most compelling critique I have seen of the film focuses on the fact that the people Bruno encounters are almost exclusively poor and that the humor is ultimately class humor rather than antihomophobic humor. I can accept that: the film does interpolate its audience as bourgeois and adhering to a particular set of bourgeois cultural beliefs.

[ruggerson]

72. I'd say it's about $$$

[ContinentalOp]

88. I call B.S. on the class accusation.

Ali G was pretty much the exact opposite of what you state: exploiting stereotypes of lower class "urban" youth the expose the classism of people in power (Buchanan, Gingrich, McCain, etc).

[tishaLA]

94. But really Ali G is a bourgeois creation

who, in taking down those in power, does so from below them. It makes the bourgeoisie feel much better about themselves to expose the classism of the powerful and the buffoonery of the underclass.

[callous taoboy]

41. Yes, but

Bruno IS the flaming gay stereotype (too many of my gay friends, some of whom act a bit like Bruno in manner, find Bruno outrageously funny so it's hard for me to see how he'd be offending too many from the gay community). As for the straight community, Bruno is shocking to some, but as far as I'm concerned if someone comes away from seeing Bruno with the idea that he personifies all that is gay I believe that is their problem, not the actor. It'd probably be helpful for them to remember that they are watching a movie which, tough as it may be for some, requires one to be both in the moment of the movie but also maintain some objectivity to make sure you are really getting the point, especially the absolutely brilliant satire of Cohen.

The OP hit the nail right on the head, and Bruno joins the ranks of Archie Bunker. We laughed at Archie's bigotry and I would imagine that most people GOT Archie, and were laughing at him, not with him. What about when Lionel Jefferson would put on his "Colored" act for Archie? Brilliant stuff. We were with Lionel and enjoyed the dig at Archie which would sail over his thick head.

Also, I wouldn't condone portraying gays as swishy in a high school skit if your point is to hopefully find some support for the gay / straight alliance. Wrong format. Bruno, no, perfect format and a completely different purpose involved.

[noamnety]

47. The problem is when the stereotypes are ALL that the media shows.

each bit of media contributing to that becomes part of the problem. Why is it that when the theatre teacher thought of doing a skit about gay people, she immediately went to: "I can do this, I know how to direct someone to act gay."

It's great to believe: "if someone comes away from seeing Bruno with the idea that he personifies all that is gay I believe that is their problem, not the actor."

But neither one of those is the issue. Of course it's not a problem for the actor, he's laughing all the way to the bank, profiting from the stereotype. And bigotry ... I'm not concerned if it's a problem for the bigot. The problem is how they inflict their bigotry on the rest of the world, including the people who didn't even see the movie but become targets of their newly fueled bigotry. There was a post about that recently by a DUer, walking in on gay bashing that was directly fueled by the movie. No, it wasn't a problem for the people who saw the movie at all, just for the other people around them.

[malletgirl02]

49. My Opinion

Since I can't get past the commercials, since I think the movie looks stupid so my opinion doesn't count much. The word I seen people describe the movie is a minstrel show. This controversy reminds me of the movie Bamboozled. In it the main character puts on a minstrel television show. In the movie, the main character things he is undermining stereotypes when he is actually reinforcing them.

[ColbertWatcher]

85. That kinda sounds like what "conservative gays" say about the so-called more "flamboyant" gays.

I've heard this before, from gays who want the queens and transexuals and all those other "out" gays have their parades.

I've even heard a variation of it used against gays who want to get married or serve openly in the military. It goes something like this: "be quiet, act "normal" and don't upset straight America; they're more likely to accept us as equal citizens if we blend in and wait patiently."

Maybe you've accidentally revealed why Cohen chose such a flamboyant character?

[dsc]

71. what if the actors playing George and Lionel had been white and in black face?

Cohen is a straight actor in gay face exhibiting ludricrious stereotypes.

[ColbertWatcher]

82. Cohen is a trickster.

He wasn't from Kazakhstan when he did Borat either. Nor was he a white teenager affecting "gangsta" culture when he did The Ali G Show.

[callous taoboy]

95. In my view, Lionel DID slip into black face (with no makeup)

when he'd put on his shuffling, "No sah, Mister Bunker," act. Lionel became THE "negroe" right before your eyes which was made even more glaring by the fact that Lionel was obviously very bright. Cohen is doing the same thing with Bruno with the difference being that there is no break from the character which, I admit, may help Bruno be more digestible (no pun intended, Bruno sweety)for some who don't understand Cohen's aim.

[msongs]

18. here I thought the point was for him to make lots of money lol nt

[Control-Z]

21. can't see beyond his behavior

I am that person. Disgusting behavior is just that, disgusting. I tried to like Borat. I tried to laugh when I was supposed to. I found nothing about it to be funny. Very much was horrifying, though, and I gave up watching about a third the way through.

It doesn't mean that I don't find reprehensible behavior reprehensible. But there are better ways to learn about society than through this man's insulting, obnoxious behavior. I hated everything about the movie and will not be giving Bruno even a chance.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. And you are the punch line, which is why you miss the joke

Sorry but it is true. His 'behavior' is an act. Are you able to get past the 'fact' that Hamlet is a mass murderer and hear the play? How about the thief and sexual harasser Harpo Marx? I mean, the behavior of that man! It is almost as if he's trying to make people laugh, for no other reason but to make them laugh! And he's willing to upturn decorum to do it! The horror! I clutch my pearls and reach for the Gospels to comfort me!

[bettyellen]

56. wow you're missing the punchline... which is that some idiots think Bruno is for reals...

now, that may be fucking hilarious to some people, but it;s just boring to some of us. i run hot and old on cohen myself, it gets old quickly. but dont flatter yoursef we "get it", teenage boys "get it" too, it;s not really all that hard.

[Control-Z]

61. 'teenage boys "get it" too'

Made me laugh. Thanks!

[Control-Z]

59. I'm the punchline?

Seriously? Because I didn't like a movie you liked you have to insult me? Wow.

I hope you're not one to act on these impulses of yours.

[malaise]

25. I agree 100%

Rec

[tularetom]

28. Dems aren't the only ones who don't "get" Cohen

Check out the patrons of this redneck bar as Borat treats them to an old Kazakhstan "folk song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

[Rex]

30. Never been impressed with him, his characters are predictable

and not very funny.

[azmouse]

31. He's not funny.... at all.

[RufusTFirefly]

32. Keep in mind that the target American moviegoing audience is adolescent boys

Not the most sophisticated demographic. But the most lucrative. That explains a lot, I'm afraid.

[The River]

36. Who?

[Andy Canuck]

38. What Cohen said about Borat holds true for Bruno

that the character is so absurd, ludicrous and distasteful, the fact that anyone engages these characters is the point. The insanity to Cohen was that people interacted with these characters believing they were witnessing the real manifestation of homosexuals and immigrants. He is the boogeyman of the closed minded, he presents himself as the closed minded's worst fear, and they believe it because he is what homosexuals and immigrants are how they imagine.

[callous taoboy]

43. Well, I couldn't say it any better myself. n/t

[Mojambo]

54. NAILED IT. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

64. And Ali G

I think he's brilliant, but I've been watching him for years. Maybe that's part of why some don't like or get him... they've only seen a very small bit. Many also despised Archie Bunker until they saw more of the character. You're right... he's the boogeyman of the closed mind.

[semillama]

69. Very good summary of Cohen's strategy

good post.

I'd add that a lot of people just aren't going to like comedy that makes you uncomfortable, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't invalidate the humor that Cohen deals in.


For the record, I laughed like hell at Borat.

[bedazzled]

99. thanks for that -- it's clarified it for me

i guess i don't like it because it shows the
worst behavior of humanity. that such behavior
exists is too horrifying to me to handle

[fishwax]

39. "satire" and "offensive" are not mutually exclusive categories

People can "get it" and still think it's poorly done, ineffective, counterproductive, etc. Personally I'm not a huge fan--Borat made me laugh, but I'll probably wait for the DVD of Bruno ...

[beam me up scottie]

40. I think how well you tolerate his kind of satire depends on where you live.

Some of us who are exposed to unbearable amounts of in-your-face bigotry on a daily basis might not have the stomach for his films.

Not that I don't understand or appreciate his work, I do, I just think I would understand and appreciate it better if I still lived in Vermont.

~bmus, homesick in the bible belt

[scubadude]

42. Haven't seen Bruno yet, but can't wait to!

Borat was one of the funniest films I have ever seen, period. It got a bit slow near the end but even so to me it is classic. I saw it in Atlanta, and the audience was a bit uncomfortable booing and hissing the parts that occurred there, but they were all laughing uproariously at most of the rest. They and I came away after being greatly entertained, and in some ways enlightened.

In my mind and many others Borat will go down as one of the most well though out and ironic comedies of all times. I agree that Sasha Baron Cohen is one of the most important artists of our day and I love the way he exposes the worst of our society. In some ways I see it almost as documentary.

Thanks for this post, now I want to go see it even more!

Scuba

[EC]

50. Stewart and Cobert do the same thing

without being ass-holes...I just find both Bruno and Borat to be irritating and childish...

[frogmarch]

51. I get the point, but he disgusts me

and I won't watch him again.

[asjr]

52. I saw Borat for the first time last week. I

can't tell you if it is a good or bad movie. All I know is I laughed out loud for so long the rest of the family came to my room to see if I was okay. Cohen is not afraid to intimidate everybody.

[apocalypsehow]

55. It's the same kind of boors that constantly push at open doors around here - if someone is not

their PERFECT VERSION OF THEIR IMAGINARY PERFECT PROGRESSIVE he or she is not just wrong in his/her methods or politics, but an actual malevolent "attention whore" or "asshole."

I swear, a good 15% of the people who regularly post here are the kind who if you handed them a million dollars strings-free would instantly start complaining about the taxes they were going to have pay on it. It must be dreadful to be that angry all the time at just about everything and everyone.

edit: corrected the spellchecker.

[noamnety]

57. "It must be dreadful to be that angry all the time "

Rereading your post. Chuckling at the irony.

[apocalypsehow]

60. You might wanna consult a dictionary and thumb to the "I's" - cuz it's obvious you don't know

what the word "irony" means. Have a chuckle on me while you're at it.

[noamnety]

66. When I read your posts

you sound angry. Often.

:shrug:

[apocalypsehow]

75. Is that a fact now? Funny stuff - from December of 2008 till yesterday I haven't posted ONCE.

on DU - notta, nothing, not even logged in for months at a time. Been too busy with real life, and a career.

Care to "revise and extend" your remarks?

:shrug: , indeed.

[noamnety]

81. No need for revisions.

It was just a trend I saw when I searched your username, the tone in the top hit was fairly measured and based on providing evidence to support a point you were making, but the next few were consistent with your tone here.

[apocalypsehow]

83. Uh-huh.

:eyes:

[paulsby]

58. i agree but

one other thing i think his movies expose is the remarkable tolerance, patience and politeness "average joes" often display. he DOES goad people, and people are remarkably (usually) restrained. the ones who aren't of course are often the funniest, but sometimes the quiet dignity of the ones who don't lose it is also funny and heartening. the driving instructor in borat is a good example. it's easy to laugh at other people in uncomfortable situations from the quiet comfort of the theater. but these are real people in real situations, and i'm actually pretty proud at how well many americans acquit themself. cohen cut his teeth doing the same thing over the pond, primarily in the UK, and essentially had to take his act to the USA because too many people in the UK were now "in" on the joke. they also acquitted themselves pretty well. also note that cohen has the power of editing. he can selectively NOT show X people who react in a nonfunny way, and selectively show the extreme reactions. as an extreme example, if 50 people acted reasonably and 1 person acted wacky, he could just show 1 of each. iow, there is no pretense of "balance". this aint a documentary after all. and i LOVE cohen don't get me wrong.

[ColbertWatcher]

86. Quiet you. One mustn't ever expose The Grande Secret™ about the cinema ...

... editing!

For if everyone knew that movies employed editing, that would ruin the whole movie-going experience!

Now, if you can just keep quiet about the fact that Brüno is a movie everything will be fine.

[cboy4]

62. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking the guy is doing this for any other

reason than to make money.

This notion that he's some sort of gay civil rights activist for mocking homophobia in a motion picture is rich. Literally.

$$$$$

[scarletwoman]

84. Thank you!

His schtick is as much about social consciousness as a third grader doing poop jokes at the dinner table. It's all about getting a reaction to acting outrageously.

[eeyore]

90. If you actually have seen it then you were not paying attention

It's pretty impossible to miss his social commentary. If anything it's heavy handed. Granted, he often plays the ass to draw out reaction, but to miss out on the fact that he is doing so with a knowing wink would be pretty damn impossible. When, as Borat, he gets an entire redneck bar to sing along to his song "Throw The Jew Down The Well", without any of them knowing he is Jewish, is both terrifying and amazing. He is constantly pushing an intellectual edge, and to miss that is to miss the entire point of his characters.

[scarletwoman]

93. I remain unmoved and unconvinced. I guess you'll just have to live with that. (nt)

[ColbertWatcher]

87. True, he does have to make a living.

But, then so does everyone else.

[Orsino]

63. Satire indistinuishable from its target is going to offend.

Whatever Cohen's intentions were, different people will see the same material in different ways, some of which Cohen may not have foreseen. And every viewer will "clearly" see what he has decided he will see.

Art is like that.

[MilesColtrane]

65. I've only seen part of "Borat", and it turned me off.

It was the scene filmed in a very poor village in Romania (standing in for Kazakhstan) in which Cohen ridicules the locals.

I found that disgusting.

[followthemoney]

67. Larry Flynt put together a report that derailed the ...

Clinton impeachment. The guilt of Clinton's accusers became apparent and they were anxious to get off the stage before Flynt's reward money brought forward more participants in compromised behavior from their own camp.

I bought a copy of Flynts report. I had an argument with a friend's boss about how the private sector report was done for less money than the Star Report and in full color to boot.

Sometimes you have to meet the enemy on his own ground. Nobody wants to wrestle with a pig because you will get dirty and, besides, the pig likes it. But, you've got to let the bastards know that just because you have empathy for the abused that doesn't mean you can't kick their hypocritical asses in their own mud pit.

[rug]

70. And Tom Green is surpassed only by Jonathan Swift.

[Robb]

73. Borat absolutely terrified me. And then

...it struck me it was the natural evolution from Andy Kaufman.

You better believe we're all the punch line.

[JI7]

74. i get what he is doing, but i can still see why people would be offended

[bemildred]

76. I'm sorry, it just looks stupid and bigoted to me.

Like a lot of other movies. You can't fight stereotypes by perpetuating them.

[Nye Bevan]

101. Don't worry. Jay Leno will be back in the fall.

Now there's a *real* comedian.

[ruggerson]

77. Divine did it a generation earlier, with far more wit, backwards and in high heels

n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

78. It does not bother this Gay man or his friends...

we plan on seeing it.

[Soylent Brice]

98. funny, i just had to explain this to my wife last night.

i likened him to Colbert. now she wants to see Borat finally. extreme satire just doesn't suit some people. look at how many people refer to british humor as "dry".

[Nye Bevan]

100. But but but..... he wrote a song about throwing Jews down the well!

And sang it with a big crowd of people!

That is just SOOOOO anti-Semitic!

[hiphopnation]

102. i don't entirely disagree

here's my thing: if the point is for him to expose close-mindedness in a way that's funny, (only, of course, to those who "get it", a problematic notion for me to begin with), I just wish I found it funnier. Is that so much to ask? I felt the same way about Andy Kaufman - I'm feel mostly confident in saying that I "got" what Andy was doing, the da-da nature of it, challenging the notion of what is funny and why, removing obvious punchlines from jokes, etc. I don't think I'm a close-minded jerk or total nitwit. It just didn't make me laugh.

Borat was the same (I haven't yet seen Bruno) I laughed at roughly half of it and I got the sense afterward that half of that was forced laughter because I was wanting badly to think it was so shockingly hilarious.

The thing is, when I laugh, that is, what drives me to laugh, is not some lofty notion of exposing narrow-minded idiocy. It's either funny or it's not funny, regardless of the higher implication it has on progressive (or conservative) ideals. It's the reason Carlin is a personal hero - his shit was side-splittingly hilarious and his comedy served a higher, more progressive cause with which I happen to align.

I just don't find Choen funny :shrug:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

103. Yes, but in Borat, the whole premise was that....

...the character was supposed to bring out people's underlying racism and bias, but the problem was the way the character was made was ultimately just as offending to people of Central Asia that the whole message got lost in all the hypocrisy on Cohen's part.

Plus, from the 5 minutes I could take of "Borat", the whole movie was just so incredibly stupid and over the top in its scatology and general offensiveness that there was no way any message could be imported due to the general inability for many people to waste their time watching it.

Great satire requires a balance. And that doesn't mean it has to be sophisticated by any means. Take, for example, Mike Judge's movie "Idiocracy." On the surface, it is just a dumb, stupid farcical comedy with lots of dumb juvenile humor (Buttfuckers, anyone?). However, the dumb humor is not so pervasive so as to the educated viewer can grasp the underlying message. There is no such subtlety in Cohen's films and as such I think they fail on a larger level.

[harun]

104. I was talking with my wife about this point as well. The message he is trying to

make is actually a good one. Outing really ridiculous stereotypes for what they are, ridiculous.

[Recursion]

105. Cohen satirizes the UK and US

What country his alleged characters come from is irrelevant (or, actually, relevant in that Americans don't know the first thing about it).

His best work was in Borat: a group of respectable southern gentlemen and ladies sit through his dinner and his bringing his own feces wrapped in toilet paper, but call the police when he invites a black woman over.

[ecstatic]

106. Let's not make it more than it is. His movies are just pure goofiness

and I don't think there is supposed to be a lesson involved. I saw it Sunday and the bizarre sex scenes etc. are just meant for comedy.

[demgurl]

107. What you say may be true....

but I would rather not watch. Things like that can be done in some covert psychology experiment and I can read the results in the form of statistics.

Let me put it this way: I was picked on and ostracized by bullies when I went to school. I recently found out that the main bully went on to get addicted to drugs and had to go to rehab. I have no doubt that whatever problems she had, that caused her to bully, also lead her to drug problem. The surprising thing about the drug information is that I did not feel happy at all. I did not feel good about karma and I did not even want to know more details. I felt sad that her life was so bad it made her turn to drugs. I only hoped she had gotten enough treatment that she would be drug-free the rest of her life. (and happy)

I think bullying and prejudice is sad and pathetic. I take no joy in other's ignorance. What Sasha does is only expose how others feel. I am already quite aware of how others act. His actions do not change their actions or how they think. In fact, when their ignorance comes out it is more likely they feel alienated and they will dig their heels in even more.

I see, clearly, what his work is about. I see no benefit to his work. I do not think he exposes anything we did not already know. He does not change anyone's views. I have not heard of anyone stepping up and saying they were wrong and now going on the speech circuit to convert others. I do not wish to witness people being tricked into showing their full ignorance. I simply find no joy in it. To me it does nothing but let 'intelligent people' feel superior.

[hiphopnation]

108. +1

and it's not all that funny either.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

109. The amazing thing about Bruno is it is CLEARLY parody

Only idiots would take what the guy is doing seriously and react the way they do. THEY are the ones who think gay people actually act like that.

[GeorgeGist]

110. Wow ... I'm surprised how many people need to be hit over the head

to see that Cohen is making fun of his adolescent fans.

[Romulox]

111. Wot? Is it 'cause I is black?

Cohen is the most brilliant mainstream comic going at the moment, and the only obvious heir to Andy Kaufman's brand of lunacy.

To the extent that the audience doesn't get the joke (many DUers, above, e.g.) then they too become part of the joke. Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.