Teen Who Mistook Hiker for Bear Gets 30 Days

[The Straight Story]

Teen Who Mistook Hiker for Bear Gets 30 Days

MOUNT VERNON, Wash. (AP) -- A teenage hunter who shot and killed a hiker he mistook for a bear has been sentenced to 30 days in juvenile detention and 120 hours of community service.

Tyler J. Kales, then 14, was hunting with his older brother in August when he shot 54-year-old Pamela Almli of Oso. She was trekking on a popular Sauk mountain hiking trail north of Seattle.

Kales, who has since turned 15, apologized to the victim's family at Friday's sentencing and said he hopes they can forgive him.

The victim's sister, Gail Blacker, told him that "in one second you destroyed everything."

The boy was convicted last month of second-degree manslaughter with a firearm. Skagit County Superior Court Judge Susan Cook also sentenced him to a year of probation and said his community service must include four hours of training in hunting safety.

http://www.news10.net/news/whatsupwiththat/story.aspx?storyid=63033&catid=157

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. sentence seems light, even if it was an accident

[paulsby]

3. this is WA state

when i moved here, i was AMAZED at how light JUVENILE sentences are. it used to be, until recently, a juvenile had to get 6 or 7 auto theft convictions before they'd get ANY time in juvie. we couldn't even BOOK juveniles for anything less than a B felony or violent crime. iow, auto theft, eluding the police, reckless driving, dui, etc. were all NOT bookable. i really can't understand why WA is so lenient on juveniles, but it is. it's gotten better though

[pnwmom]

8. Our juvenile crime isn't particularly high. If heavier sentences were helpful,

you'd think WA would have higher crime rates than other states. Maybe WA's approach was actually better.

[paulsby]

9. you are assuming correlation

and causation issues. btw, wa crime rate in GENERAL isn't very high. but our auto theft rates are generally very bad, btw. regardless, one can't assume correlation w/o evidence. this is also about justice. is it justice that 4 kids steal a car, joyride it around, lead the cops on a high speed pursuit, then are released to their parents before the cops are even done with the report? that's absurd.

[pnwmom]

31. I think it is justice that juveniles are treated like juveniles.

Unfinished people with still developing brains who are given more latitude than if they were adults.

And I'm assuming that the point of prison is to reduce crime. If longer sentences don't result in less crime, then there's no point.

[paulsby]

38. that's only part of the reason

another part of the reason is justice. treating somebody like a juvenile doesn't mean treating them like their actiosn have no consequences. we say 16 yr old is old enough to choose an abortion w/o parental consent. it's certainly old enough to get BOOKED for stealing a car, eluding the police, committing a burglary, etc.

[pnwmom]

39. Not necessarily. I know when I was growing up kids were much LESS likely to

get booked for doing stupid things than they are today, especially kids in smaller communities.

[paulsby]

40. i don't think stealing a car or committing a burglary

is stupidity. i think it's criminal. i deal with juvenile stupidity ALL the time. and btw, i'm not referring to joyriding yer daddy's car. i'm referring to breaking into some strangers car and stealing it. to not even get booked for that, imo, is insanely lenient. but we can disagree

[mudplanet]

11. Heavier sentences are better??

It's implied here that giving the child a heavy sentence would somehow make other kids more cautious when hunting, which is just so much bullshit. The parents of a child are responsible civilly for their child's actions, and that should be the main check on kids who aren't really prepared to be carrying guns in the woods from hunting.

[paulsby]

13. for this case

i think one month is too short. i've followed this case from the beginning, fwiw. 3 months would be reasonable imo.

[depakid]

17. It's probably "worth" more like a year- to three years

This is a homicide after all.

[quiller4]

32. I would have supported a suspended sentence.

I also hoped that the case would prompt more discussion about safety in the woods during hunting season. It is foolhardy to go into any hunting area during season without wearing hunter orange. In some states you can be sited for failure to wear such safety garb whether or not you are hunting. When we lived in rural Washington, i always pulled on my hunter orange down vest to go to my own woodpile.

[mudplanet]

53. That solution, too, sounds constructive

[WonderGrunion]

82. Hunting accident crimes were sentenced lightly like that in Maine

We changed the law here that the hunter now has the burden of properly identifying the target before taking the shot. Failure to properly identify is considered a prima facea guilty verdict. Sometimes light sentences still occur though, but attitudes have changed and hunting season deaths have decreased dramatically.

[northernlights]

86. in Maine he would have been let off scott free

A couple years ago a middle-aged lifelong hunter mistook a 17 year old young woman wearing white mittins for a deer and shot and killed her her with a bow...on her own property and just 600 feet from her house. She took the arrow in the center of her chest.

She and her brother didn't realize it was the last day of bow-hunting and were out walking on the edge of a meadow on their own property. She died in her brother's arms.

Some of the jurors or neighbors or something were interviewed on the local news. He was acquitted and got no punishment. They felt he had suffered enough. :eyes:

I seem to remember they talked about changing the laws to require written permission to hunt on other people's property. Which naturally made me think that he didn't even have permission to be hunting there. :(

[Blue_Tires]

90. damn that's sad...

great target recognition from that 'lifelong hunter'

[Pharlo]

2. "four hours of training in hunter safety"

Old adage about barn doors and horses sounds appropriate.

As part of his sentence, he should have a permanent suspension of hunting licenses. In fact, he should never be allowed to own or handle a gun again.

[ManiacJoe]

28. That is four hours GIVING training, not taking training.

Badly written article.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009451473_huntersentenced11m.html
However, there is a four vs forty discrepancy in the number of hours.

[Paladin]

55. Well Said. (n/t)

[baldguy]

4. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcmbFKstspk

[TahitiNut]

47. Then again, there's ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Can we ban sport hunting yet?

Please?

[Pavulon]

19. dumbshit with gun, dumbshit with text

both deserve time for killing people. Accidents happen when we are in diapers and gradeschool. If you are carrying a weapon or driving a car you own the consequences of what you do.

[Baikonour]

6. Can someone explain to me the point of hunting bears?

Please?

[Joe the Revelator]

7. Because its illegal for mild sociopaths to kill humans?

Either way its disgusting.

[Baikonour]

10. Something tells me these sociopaths have no regard for the law, anyway.

I'd just love to hear their rationalization for killing an animal that they don't eat, don't use the fur from, etc.

[mudplanet]

12. This is exactly what gun nuts are afraid of

You can eat bear, and many a bear skin rug adorns a floor in a cabin.

I don't hunt and I'm generally not crazy about people who do (I'm not sure I see the point if you're not hungry and broke) but, over the years I've had to work with a lot of hunters and not all of them are irresponsible gun nuts.

The ones that bother me are the ones that make statements like, "Clinton is going to outlaw all hunting!!!" with alarmed looks on their faces. Where they get these notions is beyond me, but it's possible that statements such as those in this post may fuel their fears.

There isn't any such thing as an absence of wildlife management anymore - it has to be done. The natural balance is so out of whack that much wildlife has to culled, and hunting is one way of doing it. Personally, I'd like to see predators put on illegal hunting status, as the absence of natural predators is one of the main factors responsible for prey animal numbers being so high.

The animal that is primarily responsible for the destruction of nature, after humans, is the cow. I vote for a open season on cows.

[ContinentalOp]

16. You're still allowed to hunt bear in WA?

:wtf:

[paulsby]

20. the makah have hunted whales

fwiw. in WA state

[ContinentalOp]

21. This teenager was native american? -nt-

[paulsby]

23. not to my knowledge. bear hunting aint limited to NA's nt

[ContinentalOp]

25. OK, was just confused about your reference to the Makah.

Not sure I see the relevance.

[paulsby]

26. the point was that

in a state that allows limited WHALE hunting, are we surprised they allow bear hunting?

[ContinentalOp]

30. I see. I won't for one second pretend to understand the legal implications of tribal sovereignty..

but it does seem a little apples to oranges. Still I take your point.

[quiller4]

33. Yes. The black bear population is really too large for the

territory. Much of their original habitat has been developed.

[depakid]

35. And you know this how?

[quiller4]

58. Dept of Natural Resource surveys primarily but other data supports same conclusion.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. This whole "culling the heard" thing is a myth sports hunters use to allow themselves to sleep at

night. If we protected more land, and allowed animals to live there protected from the hunters, mother nature has a way of working things out.

[mudplanet]

52. Well, yea. Mother Nature's method of working things like this out

is starvation and disease. Starvation and disease probably aren't any less cruel than hunting, but no one gets to eat the critter.

I'll respect anti-hunting arguments from true vegetarians. I'm not one and I've always felt a little hypocritical in criticizing hunting.

[WonderGrunion]

84. You do realize that elimination of a major predator (man)

is also tampering with the environment. I understand if you're morally opposed to hunting or even eating meat in general. But don't act like you aren't messing with nature by ending hunting.

[Flaneur]

68. Labelling hunters "sociopaths" is just a wee bit over the top.

Don't you think?

[datasuspect]

83. because they're good eatin'?

[omega minimo]

14. "Aw shit, it's not a bear. It's just a woman."

[The Straight Story]

22. Might still be good eating

:hide: :rofl:

[omega minimo]

44. That's it for you.

[beam me up scottie]

48. Bad Duzy, Bad!

:spank:

:rofl:

[ContinentalOp]

15. Wow, convenient! So open season on hikers in the woods then?

At least if you're a juvenile? :shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Should we have executed the 15 year old?

[ContinentalOp]

69. No, I'm anti death penalty.

20 to life would be fine though.

[brentspeak]

72. How about terminating his right to own a gun -- for the rest of his life?

The kid was either too careless or too stupid to have had his hands on a gun in the first place. Though teenagers aren't known for their wisdom, the vast majority would not have been so brainless as to shoot a hiker in this situation. The kid is a threat to the public, and likely always will be.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

73. We rarely punish children for their entire lives for mistakes made during their youth.

[brentspeak]

85. So we'll just to wait until he makes a "mistake" and kills a 2nd person when he's an adult

As the chances are pretty high that he'll eventually be the cause of someone else's loss of life, given his unusual amount of stupidity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. That is how the system works most of the time.

[Pavulon]

18. I hunt and there is zero excuse for this, 2 year olds have accidents

these are not accidents. Children have accidents when they piss their pants. There are no accidents with weapons. You own the round and where it goes. This is a 1st degree felony manslaughter case. 5 years minimum or at least locked down until 18th birthday.

[petronius]

24. Such a small sentence sends a message that hunting is valued over other uses,

and that hunters who fail to hunt responsibly will get off with a wink and a nod. The inclusion of hunter training as community service is just an insult to the victim.

More time time may not help, but I do agree that he should receive a lifetime hunting ban - he's proven he can't do it right, and so he doesn't deserve the privilege.

Also, I do hope there's a civil suit waiting in the wings...

[Coventina]

27. How does one mistake a woman in her 50s for a bear?

Did he just hear rustling and shoot without bothering to even look first?

Yikes.

He destroyed a family, either from GROSS negligence (which deserves FAR more than 30 days in juvie) or he did it deliberately, in which case he deserves to be locked up for life.

[quiller4]

36. There was dense for in the area. In those conditions one can't

see much more than outlines. A persona wearing a backpack and bending slightly as they climb a trail could have a similar outline as a larger bear.

That is one reason why humans should wear safety clothing whenever they are in hunting areas. That isn't to say that the hunter has the responsibility to be sure of what they are shooting at. They do. Still, prudent people act to protect themselves.

[Maru Kitteh]

45. How do you know what she was wearing?

Repeat after me. There is NO SUCH THING as a hunting "accident."

[quiller4]

59. She was wearing a blue parks and light brown hiking shorts n/t

[mitchum]

78. Exactly...

There is NO SUCH THING as a hunting "accident."

[Paladin]

57. Blaming The Victim. Hope You're Proud Of Yourself.

"Similar outline" my ass. "Prudent people act to protect themselves" my ass. If you're not 100% sure of your target, you don't shoot. Gun safety 101. Hope that kid learns something in that 4 hours of safety training.....

[quiller4]

61. I agree with you about the hunter's responsibility to be 100% sure

but I still think it is essential for people who are in the woods during hunting season to take prudent action. The various logging companies have very strick policies for their employees who are in the woods. We all would do well to be as careful.

[Stevenmarc]

She missed her waxing appointment

[slackmaster]

62. By violating one of the basic rules of firearm safety

Know your target and backdrop.

[mitchum]

79. Obviously, she was hiking while wearing a fur coat

[Catherine Vincent]

34. This woman's family has got to be upset with this light sentence

One fucking month? :mad:

[quiller4]

37. The woman's family is divided about it according to interviews

they have given to the local press.

[JI7]

41. " community service must include four hours of training in hunting safety"

that is just soooooo fucked up. he shouldn't be allowed to have a gun at all.

[LisaL]

43. Exactly.

[pinniped]

42. There is no word whether or not shooter will give up hunting.

.

[mitchum]

81. Well, he should because he's not very good at it

[KittyWampus]

46. around here, wooded areas that are open season for hunting do NOT allow hiking.

signs are posted during hunting season. You aren't allowed to hike during that time period for very obvious reasons.

Why was a woman hiking and teenagers hunting in the same area?

[quiller4]

63. That is a good point. Washington does not close hunting areas

to other recreational activity as some other states do.

[beam me up scottie]

50. I don't think 14 year olds should be hunting bear (or anything else) alone.

But especially big game, we're not talking about bb guns, he should have been accompanied at ALL times by an adult.

This was more than an "accident", from the http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008117161_apwahikershot1stldwritethru.html">Seattle Times:

While hunting on Sauk Mountain, Kales and his 16-year-old brother saw what they thought was a bear from more than 100 yards away, according to charging papers. Visibility was limited by heavy fog.

Kales told sheriff's Deputy Theresa Luvera that he watched the target through his rifle scope for a few minutes, the charging papers said.

He told his brother, "It's a bear, it's a bear," and "I've got my cross hairs on it." He shot one time with a Tikka .270 rifle at "the bear" and saw it disappear.

Heavy fog, 16 year old brother supervising him, wtf? And "his community service must include four hours of hunting safety education"?

He was obviously too inexperienced/stupid to properly identify what he was shooting and now a woman is dead.

At the very least he should never be allowed to hunt and/or own a gun again.

[Karenina]

54. +1

[misanthrope]

51. Good thing they're allowing guns in Nat'l Parks now, huh?**nm

**

[slackmaster]

60. Not for hunting

Get a clue.

[misanthrope]

70. I brought my clues with me...

...and they all tell me there's no reason to have a firearm in a national park if there's no hunting allowed.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. Self defense seems like a pretty good reason.

[tomm2thumbs]

56. Cheney did it and didn't EVEN get a month -- but guess his target didn't die either

I do think it is a tragic situation, no one on either side is going to come out a winner, but definitely there is something wrong here when a life is lost. I know of no one who expects it should be 'standard practice' to purchase a flashy bright parka when visiting a national park or the woods - maybe I'm crazy, but blaming the victim for not dressing appropriately is just plain ridiculous. It was 0% her fault. Zero.

[hootinholler]

67. Cheney did while unlicensed

No poaching charge either.

-Hoot

[Soylent Brice]

64. hunting question from a non-hunter here:

how in the FUCK do you mistake a jogger for a bear?

does this look like a bear?



jogger in woods:



bear in woods:



i don't get it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. Am I the only one who finds it odd that this woman was from OSO, which means bear in Spanish?

:shrug:

[LeftinOH]

66. First thing I noticed -but the victim probably didn't resemble a bear (in the least).

[TWiley]

71. I thought guns were supposed to make the woods safer.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

75. Lots of hunters die every year hunting, it's a dangerous sport.

[TWiley]

76. do the guns kill them?

[Robb]

77. Well, it ain't the bears.

Well, not usually.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Delete double post.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. Mostly falls actually.

[KoKo]

80. Good on HER...Only 30 DAys? Amazing...It should have been LIFE!

:sarcasm:

[tabasco]

89. If you get caught with some pot plants, you lose your right to own a firearm

for life.

But shoot somebody and you get to give classes on gun safety.

This country is fucked up beyond all recognition.