More police brutality: Cop tasers 14-year-old girl. A dart penetrates her skull and hits her brain.

[backscatter712]

Wait! I thought tasers were non-lethal phasers on stun!!!

http://www.pntonline.com/news/tucumcari-17846-year-chief.html

A 14-year-old Tucumcari girl is recovering at an Albuquerque hospital after being shot in the head with a Taser dart by Tucucmari Police Chief Roger Hatcher.

Now, her parents say they want the police department to review its policies for using the Taser.

...

Her mother, Stacy Akin, said her daughter underwent surgery Friday morning at University of New Mexico hospital in Albuquerque.

“One of the darts entered her skull,” said Akin, interviewed by telephone.

After a CAT scan, a hospital resident told her the dart was “in her brain a little bit, but not much,” Akin said.

And people wonder why the police have zero respect here on DU... I'm sure the pro-cop contingent here will be posting to explain why it was necessary for this cop to cause brain damage to a girl half his size because obviously, the old fashioned route of wrestling her to the ground and subduing her would have put the officer at risk... :eyes:

:mad:

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. DUers expressed outrage over this story last week, I think

poor girl. Nothing she did called for a taze to the head

[TexasObserver]

2. Police State. No accountability. Thugs with badges.

[backscatter712]

4. Damn straight. This cop in particular needs to be horsewhipped...

:mad:

[TexasObserver]

19. If all misuse of weapons or injury to prisoners resulted in immediate suspension ...

... we'd have a lot fewer of them. If they lost the right to carry a gun during such suspensions, it would be especially effective.

If we want to stop police from killing or maiming citizens, we're going to have to make them lose the thing they need most: the ability to BE a police officer. They're out of control, and it's a nationwide epidemic.

[Echo In Light]

126. "Thugs with badges" = Fascists with hard ons. Count on it. Evil fuckers love sadism.

[Quantess]

3. It's not true that the police have zero respect on DU.

I appreciate them when they do their jobs properly, and I know many other DUers do as well.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

11. I've worked with cops at several localities and in general they see themselves as the

wall which keeps the rest of us safe. To an extent it's true. The problem is that a select few seem to think that because of this the rules really don't apply to them. An even smaller group are just plain ego-maniacs who just enjoy going on power trips. There are also those who just crack under the pressure.

[and-justice-for-all]

26. "The problem is that a select few ..." correct...nt

[Raineyb]

96. No, the problem is the blue wall of silence where cops who supposedly don't

engage in such activities and do their jobs with respect keep their mouths shut when they know there's a vicious asshole among them even when said asshole is abusing the populace and his authority.

Silence is complicity.

[Egnever]

28. Agreed There are some mighty fine officers out there

Unfortunately there's some real dicks as well. The one who shot this girl in the head strikes me as a dick. I could be way off in that assessment though

[omega minimo]

40. But since this thread made it to the Greatest Page EVERYONE will believe that!!!!!11111111111111

:yoiks: :hide: :cry:

[Ex Lurker]

92. I agree with you, but it gets harder and harder to feel that way n/t

[Skittles]

93. thank you

I know if I'm in a bad spot I can call and they will come, not really knowing what the real situation is - and for that reason alone I will never have zero respect for all cops

[and-justice-for-all]

5. First, my partner is a Cop and so are several of our friends...

but I can not justify every action by an officer.

According to the officer, which you failed to post:

“There’s a lot of issues,” Hatcher said. “She committed a delinquent act. She was running from police across traffic without looking.”

Hatcher said he chased her, ordered her to stop and “then did what I had to do.”

Running from an officer is a crime and I do not see how she could have been wrestled to the ground with traffic. That puts the Cop in danger.

Also, when you fire a taser, you do not get to guide the darts. The Cop should have not pursued the girl, he should have let her go and added the fleeing charge to her record for a later arrest.

[Liberal_in_LA]

7. Oh yeah, add the 'fleeing' to her arrest record. make sure the 14 yr old has a long criminal record

[Joe the Revelator]

14. So the girl should just get away with breaking the law

What kind of world do you live in?

[backscatter712]

16. Obviously, taser to the brain and a lifetime of epilepsy is just punishment for running from a cop.

:sarcasm:

[MADem]

45. You need to reread the story. The taser didn't cause the epilepsy--she had the condition and took

meds for it.

She also beat up her mother. Her mother drove the kid to the station because she needed help handling her daughter. The daughter then ran off and was headed out into traffic, which is why the cop tasered her.

[RedCappedBandit]

46. Sounds more like the cop found her in a park and chased her into traffic

if the cop doesn't know how to interact with frightened children, he should step aside for somebody else who does.

[MADem]

50. She ran in front of the cruiser--what, the cruiser was cruising on the grass in the park?

This was no "frightened" child--this was a delinquent who beat up her mother.

[RedCappedBandit]

54. ...

"Hatcher said he found the girl at George Molinas Park.

Hatcher said he got out of his vehicle, called to her and she ran in front of his patrol car across Monroe Street without looking for traffic."


Perhaps there was a reason a 14 year old girl was getting into a physical confrontation with her mother. Perhaps not. Who knows what really happened? Kind of irrelevant to my response.

[MADem]

57. Yeah, his cruiser was on Monroe Street, though. Not "in the park."

You can't go to the police, tell them your daughter beat you up over a cell phone, and then expect them not to take action.

The reason the kid got into a physical confrontation with her mother was over a CELL PHONE She probably wanted to talk on it, and her mother had other ideas.

[uppityperson]

86. Tasing someone who runs into the street will help them how?

Now you have a kid on the ground, unable to dodge traffic. This is.....safer for the kid?

[endarkenment]

105. hush, we are busy justifying brutality

[and-justice-for-all]

25. That is a pretty dumb comment...nt

[Maru Kitteh]

30. Girl was attempting to secure a darwin award. A charge for fleeing is among the better

possible outcomes upon running through traffic without looking.


Actions have consequences. This young woman had just got done assaulting her mother and it sounds as though she was engaging in activity that was putting her own life at risk.

I think tazing a 14 year-old is a really bad course of action about 98% of the time. I don't have enough information in this case to say whether I would think this fell in the 98% category or the 2%.

I do think automatically assuming this is brutality trivializes REAL police brutality and here's why. There is no evidence that suggests he was trying to brutalize her, only stop her.

[MADem]

47. Well, she beat up her mother. That's why the MOTHER took her to the station. NT

[okieinpain]

109. hope I don't get in trouble. but that statement has to be one of the dumbest

I've seen in a long time. you might as well start defending O.J., or something.

[snooper2]

128. being that she is only 14 it won't show up when she is looking for a job

at 25


Jeez

[NashVegas]

52. What Kind of Judgment Calls Do They Make?

This was a case where a woman brought her daughter to police HQ over a family quarrel about a cell phone. Kid walks out.

When did it become necessary to use lethal force over a case of mere insubordination?

[crikkett]

120. Exactly. Tasers are lethal force. We are not cattle. n/t

[endarkenment]

104. Wow. Running with scissors, needs to be shot.

Got it.

Do you even believe what you write?

[Robb]

6. Just curious

Why is it OK to broad-brush cops any more than any other group? For example, thanks to the internets I could probably post a story every week about (say) a firefighter killing a family while driving drunk.

Would it then be OK to say all firefighters are drunk-driving killers?

I ask this at least half-seriously.

[ret5hd]

21. well, jut a cursory look:

googled "firefighter driving drunk"
Results 1 - 10 of about 59,900 for firefighter driving drunk. (0.25 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=firefighter+driving+drunk&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

googled "police brutality"
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,080,000 for police brutality. (0.11 seconds)

[Robb]

31. So that makes it OK then?

googled "lazy mexicans"
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,770,000 for lazy mexicans. (0.29 seconds)

googled "stupid liberals"
Results 1 - 10 of about 7,120,000 for stupid liberals. (0.37 seconds)

...Thank goodness I have the google to help me. :eyes:

[trotsky]

56. ...

:thumbsup:

[MADem]

67. Well argued. nt

[wantoutnow]

91. Problem is

"lazy mexicans" and "stupid liberals" dont tazer people in the head or shoot the family dog. They also dont have the blue wall to hide behind. Thanks goodness I have facts to help me.:evilgrin:

[Robb]

103. Oh, snap. I guess.

:eyes:

[snooper2]

129. The google rofl

:rofl:

Results 1 - 10 of about 113,000 for "stupid dogs". (0.31 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 329,000 for "women drivers". (0.34 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 19,100 for "Missouri sucks". (0.25 seconds)

:rofl:

[rd_kent]

132. Well done!

I love it when people throw shit back into the face of obstinate people. Good job, seriously.

[sendero]

101. I know that most cops..

... are good people trying to do a difficult job. My experiences with police fall into two distinct categories - encounters with Dallas police which have almost always had reasonable and fair outcomes, and encounters with suburban police (Richardson, Frisco, Garland) who are almost 100% DICKS.

That said, my beef with the police is that when these sorts of things happens there are always a RAFT OF EXCUSES that they would LAUGH IN THE FACE OF if a perp were making them.

All I want is a bit of accountability. That does not seem like too much to ask. If you wear a badge, your standard of conduct should be HIGHER than mine, not lower.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

108. Professions are a result of choice, not birth.

And this particular profession is taxpayer-funded and should be held to higher standards than most other jobs.

[Maru Kitteh]

8. It's incredibly ignorant to believe all cops are (a) good (b) bad (c) the same (d) all of the above

Correct answer - (d) all of the above

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. So very true!

Police are people--and, just like any profession, you have your good, bad, and so-so.

[Maru Kitteh]

44. I do thnk a minimum 2 year asssociates degree would be an enormously

helpful requirement for all law enforcement. The world today is far too complex to be policed by people who don't have the best available training.

It's not fair to the officers or the public they serve.

[Fire1]

63. Totally agree with that! n/t

[jbnow]

130. Remember the guy rejected for scoring too high on test?

This was in Connecticut in 96. His IQ was too high..and it wasn't that high...his score of 33 was the equivalent of 125.
They only accepted candidates who scored between 20 to 27, saying those who scored higher would be likelier to get bored and leave.
This test is standard across the nation and the average score is 21 to 22 (equivalent of 104 IQ) which makes me think the standard might be common.

He took it to court and lost...appealed it once and lost. The courts said it was not discrimination if they applied the same standard to everyone who took the test. I say BS...Our IQ is not a choice. Genetics and very early environment determine it...but that's another issue.

But it has troubled me since learning about that. Now IQ isn't everything, some people just test better or worse but intelligence does matter. Judgment and quick decision making and other important attributes are related to intelligence

[paulsby]

9. two points

tasers are properly referred to as "less lethal". NO use of force is 100% non-lethal. even a baton strike to the leg, or merely wrestling with somebody have resulted in deaths. 2nd point, regardless of whether or not "the old fashioned route" would have been a better tactical decision IN HINDSIGHT, wrestling people has risks to SUSPECTS as well as victims. one of my fellow officers was killed when a person he was wrestling with (this was before we had tasers) managed to get his gun and shot him in the head repeatedly until the gun was empty. i have seen people's wrists get broken while being 'wrestled to the ground', and countless injuries from road rash on up - to both suspects and officers. statistically speaking, it's safer to tase. studies have shown that suspect injuries, suspect deaths, officer injuries and officer deaths have, on average, gone down significantly when agencies adopted tasers. fwiw, i've carried a taser for 3 years. i have never fired it at anybody. i have used it as a deterrent about 1/2 dozen times. in those cases, the mere threat of a tase was enough to get compliance. i have also been tased twice, in training. never in the head, though.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Thanks for your input

Is there a protocol in place at your department for taser use? Does it include a debriefing after use to go over its effectiveness and how to improve its effect in getting people to comply to police orders? Thanks for your answer.

One other thing--having been traumatized by cops when I was seven (guns drawn at me during an arrest of someone else), I am very nervous around police. I always try to comply, but am also very fearful. Anything I can do to ally this fear and let the cops know I'm not guilty of anything?

[paulsby]

22. every taser use

and "use" is defined as a discharge of the taser... deterrrent taser displays do not require this form... require a special "taser use of force" form to be filled out so we can track liability, training, etc. issues and see if policy changes need to be made, problems need to be resolved, problem officers arise (people using them too often/inappropriately) etc. we have the data set up in a relational database, so one can filter by different variables (time of day, offense suspected ) etc. as to your second question 1) don't put your hands in your pockets when talking to cops, don't run up behind them, don't jump out of your car on a traffic stop, be friendly. i also suggest a ride along with your local PD, which is a GREAT way to get an understanding/empathy of how cops see things, plus it can be fun and exciting.

[backscatter712]

24. Before tasers, and before police were let off the leash in the U.S.

Just drawing a sidearm from the holster required some paperwork, and if the display of a firearm was in the absence of a threat to the life of the officer or others, he would have gotten in big trouble.

Now cops draw their firearms, and tasers with zero consequence and zero need to justify if it's really necessary.

Police should be required to justify every use of force, and every threat of force they make.

[paulsby]

29. false.

but don't let facts get in your way. i worked in an agency before tasers were used. we did NOT have to write ANY paperwork for drawing a firearm. some agencies require that. some don't. some never have. so, you are demonstrably wrong on that. you also falsely claim that cops draw their firearms and tasers with "zero consequences". plenty of officers have been disciplined for either. when you are interested in facts vs. stuff you made up (i love the report required comment about firearms btw. it's hilariously inventive) get back to me.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

32. Thank you for your answers

There is no way I could get into a car with a policeman--yes, I'm that terrified of them--but I'll remember your advice.

[rug]

35. And the Seattle PD has used a taser every other day for the last 8 years.

80% of the time the suspect is unarmed.

[paulsby]

37. tasers are GENERALLY designed

to be used with unarmed people. depending on the agency, they are usually placed somewhere around hard empty hand control and below impact strikes in the us of force continuum. in most cases, where somebody is armed, the proper response is a firearm and/or cover, not a taser. in situations with multiple officers, the taser can be very advantageous in that one officer can use lethal (drawing his firearm for cover) and the other officer can attempt taser use. i personally know of two incidents where guys would have been shot if we did not have tasers in a multiple officer situation. i teach firearms use and use of force btw.

[rug]

38. Taser use in Seattle appears to be high.

[paulsby]

39. i'd have to compare the stats

last i checked, seattle is a city with about 550k people. about 1k cops iirc. 1 taser deployment a day doesn't sound high to me. pioneer square and belltown can both get volatile especially on weekend nights, etc. i do know of one instance where a seattle cop got slashed by a knife (he wasn't hurt. it cut his shirt and didn't penetrate the vest) cause he chose to use a taser INSTEAD of a firearm with a guy armed iwht a knife, in a small room. i'm not sure, for example, how many custodial arrests seattle makes in a 24 hr period, but again, just ballparkin' here, 1 a day does not sound excessive for a city/agency of that size.

[rug]

64. They were used less in an entire country.

http://scienceandresearch.homeoffice.gov.uk/images/106966/Taserfigs_Sep-Dec_08_.pdf

[paulsby]

66. so what?

comparing the US to other countries is specious in all sorts of ways. 1 per day in a city of 550k is not at all unusual. also, (1) if you are referring to 2004 and 2008, do you know how MANY officers with tasers we are talking about. there is no evidence i see that tasers were universally deployed amongst constables , AS they are in seattle. 2) if you are referring to 2007 - 2008, it only refers to taser usage amongst limited "specially trained units". seattle, otoh, has near universal taser deployment. iow, nearly every street cop has one. you are comparing apples to ipods

[rug]

68. So what? Seattle is a village compared to London, let alone all of England.

The use of tasers is out of control.

[paulsby]

71. so using valid

statistics doesn't matter to you because you are prejudiced? right. got it. again, w/o the relevant #'s for comparison, a few of which i pointed out, it is a COMPLETELY non-compelling comparison. i can find plenty of agencies in 2004 that had ZERO taser deployments. does that mean they were more "controlled" in their taser deployment? of course not. w/o knowing basic stats, like how many officers carried tasers, etc. it's an equally ridiculous comparison. you are entitled to an opinion, even one as uninformed by data and science as yours is.

[rug]

73. I know that if an entire country can function with less incidents of taser use

your city is doing something wrong. Stick to day trading. You'll do less damage to the economy than your department is doing to human beings.

[TorchTheWitch]

34. tell them

They're human. They understand these things sort of like other humans do. Talk to the person, not the uniform.

[The Doctor.]

82. Dang... I could have summed it up so much more succinctley...

"Talk to the person, not the uniform."

That pretty much says it.

[The Doctor.]

81. What's worked for me;

Smile, be friendly, relaxed, and even tell a joke if you get an opening. Take the situation into account, but one thing cops like to see is someone 'like them'... which is to say 'human'.

If you're not a victim or a suspect, belligerent or afraid, then they're usually inclined to be more relaxed around you.

Don't be;

A smartass.

Anxious (that can be tricky, but it's worth the effort).
Argumentative.
Disrespectful.
or Afraid.

Be;

Relaxed.
Cooperative.
Genuine.
Friendly.
Appropriately Humorous.

Talk to them like they're just a bunch of fellow slobs on a job... albeit a serious one. Sympathize with what they have to go through.

Even if you know they're morons, or power-junkies, they'll tend to do better by you.

[Raineyb]

131. You forgot to add

Don't be 1. brown 2. black 3. seemingly foreign or 4. insufficiently obsequious.

What the hell difference does it make if they look at you and assume you're a thug without any bloody evidence in the first place?

[Raineyb]

97. Stay far the hell away from cops unless absolutely necessary. Much safer that way. n/t

[HCE SuiGeneris]

53. I have A-Fib,

more than likely a tase would kill me. The chickenshit who used this violent method against the 14 year old girl is not mentally stable enough to be trusted with a taser, billy club, or gun.

[paulsby]

61. facts not in evidence

provide some evidence that shows that people with an a-fib would "likely" die from a tase. that's inconsistent with the trainign and documentation i was provided with. tia. also, calling this guy a "chickenshit" evidences your bias, so when you are willing to have a rational discussion... get back to me.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Fuck the state-sponsored domestic terrorists.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. I respect police, but don't trust them to always do the right thing

and I think the use (and abuse) of tasers needs to be fully addressed by law enforcement. Is it being used too much? Are there protocols in place to review taser use when it happens?

[stray cat]

15. Seriously what group of individuals do you expect to always do the right thing?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. None

but I like to see protocols in place to review the use of tasers. This is the responsible thing to do.

[stray cat]

13. I have tremendous respect for the police -they have always helped me out in a crisis

in fact they have gone out of their way to help. Pick the DUer you dislike the most - should your reputation be based on that DUer because you post here? Blanket stereotypes are not progressive ideals. They also work for generally low wages - yet some DUers won't respect them as working Americans like the rest of us who are struggling to get by.

[ohheckyeah]

23. So, the mother drove her daughter to the police station

because they were arguing over a cell phone?

"Akin said she and her daughter were arguing over a cell phone.

Akin said she drove her daughter to the Tucumcari Police Department to seek help."

[keep_it_real]

27. The question is: what can we the people do to stop this? NOTHING!

That's right, we the people have NO POWER to stop these incidents from happening; all we can do is read about them and express our outrage but these incidents of MURDER by use of tasers will go on and on and on and on and we the people will continue to express our outrage at reading of such but the banding of tasers will not happen because we the people are powerless; we have no power to stop these murders from happening.

As the saying of the 60's said: Power To the People.

[bvar22]

33. Who would "unrecommend" this,

and WHAT is their agenda?

[The Doctor.]

36. These were odd circumstances. I recommend reading the full story before making comments.

For instance, they were both running. My money, between who would win a footrace between a cop and a 14 year-old, isn't on the cop.

He said;

"Hatcher said if he’d been able to grab her and put her on the ground, he would have done it instead of firing the Taser."

That said, I'm uncertain there was justification for the use of the taser. If one just looks at the layout of the street;
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=tucumcari+Monroe+Street&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=CX9aSovmMIfkNZzarUM&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1



It's very hard to make the case that this was a 'busy street' that required the action. It's likely the douchebag just couldn't keep up.


{oe};Hmmm.... hypertext not working. Mapquest satellite shows it's a small side-street, not a main thoroughfare.

[TexasObserver]

42. There was no justification for his hot pursuit. She was brought in by her mother.

This is an example of parents who think police are supposed to handle things like their teen talking too much on a cell phone, and a cop who thinks that's his business.

He should have turned the problem over to CPS and stayed out of it. There was no justification for the police officer to use a taser.

[MADem]

49. She beat up her mother--who was scratched and bleeding. And she was running into heavy traffic.

The family was new to the area and she likely did not know where she was going.

[TexasObserver]

55. Oh, good grief. Much ado about nothing.

Why don't you exaggerate a little more?

A bad mother took her child to the police over a cell phone argument. She and the policeman both need their heads checked.

[rd_kent]

133. So you are the final judge on what is and is not "good or bad mother?"

This whole mess is only a big story because its sensational. I'm not defending the cop here, but unless YOU are in his shoes and have to make that decision, one should keep their armchair quarterbacking to a minimum until ALL the facts come out.

[The Doctor.]

60. Seriously... check out the mapquest satellite image of the location.

It's not a street with 'heavy traffic'.

[MADem]

72. I live on a street that ordinarily doesn't see heavy traffic.

At rush hour, though, it does.

A mapquest image isn't going to do anything save give me a snapshot of a moment in time. I'd guess a street by a park would get a fair share of traffic, unless the town is a ghost town.

[The Doctor.]

74. No, really... if you look at the street, you'll see that it's not one prone to 'heavy' traffic.

I tried to link the shot, but it didn't come up.

[MADem]

75. If you look at my little tree lined street, you'd say the same thing.

But twice a day, you'd take your life in your hands trying to cross it.

[The Doctor.]

79. Ok, fine. So... was there 'heavy traffic' at the time or not?

[MADem]

94. I don't see why the cop would lie about something that can be verified or disputed by

looking at the dashcam footage....

[The Doctor.]

102. That would be a fair point.... except that he didn't seem to make that claim.

See... if there were heavy traffic, he would have made a point of it to justify his actions.

If, otoh, he really didn't have that excuse, he could insinuate there was 'heavy traffic', and he would do so exactly as he did.

I suppose it simply remains yet to be seen.

[MADem]

110. Well, he did--he mentioned the traffic twice in the news article.

I don't know what the answer is here, but I get the strong impression the police didn't go looking for this trouble. The mother (after fighting with the daughter and appearing before the police scratched and bloodied) was the one who drove to the police, they didn't seek this mess out.

Hatcher said be believed he had no other option.

“There’s a lot of issues,” Hatcher said. “She committed a delinquent act. She was running from police across traffic without looking.”

Hatcher said he chased her, ordered her to stop and “then did what I had to do.”


....Hatcher said he got out of his vehicle, called to her and she ran in front of his patrol car across Monroe Street without looking for traffic.

Both were in a dead run when the Taser was fired, Hatcher said.

Hatcher said if he’d been able to grab her and put her on the ground, he would have done it instead of firing the Taser.

“There was a lawful reason to do that,” said Hatcher. “I didn’t have another choice and had to get her stopped.”

[The Doctor.]

125. Right, but look at the way it's phrased;

He didn't say 'into' traffic, he said 'across'.

He said she 'didn't look for traffic', not 'didn't see the traffic'.

He was not explicit. That's something to look for when someone is covering their ass.

As I said;

See... if there were heavy traffic, he would have made a point of it to justify his actions.

If, otoh, he really didn't have that excuse, he could insinuate there was 'heavy traffic', and he would do so exactly as he did.

I suppose it simply remains yet to be seen.

[MADem]

135. There's tape, and an independent investigator looking into this.

The chief has taken voluntary admin leave. Time will tell.

I don't think the kid is blameless. Who beats up their MOTHER....over a CELL PHONE?

I guess times have changed--I would never have thought that "beating up" any parent--mother, father, or any older relative--is appropriate behavior by a teen. I wouldn't have dared, not that I was raised in an environment where that kind of shit happened or even had cause to happen--we always sorta got along, and talked things out, when I was a kid (back in the dark ages).

Kids who pulled that shit ended up in "reform school." It was so unpleasant that they often came home with improved attitudes, and never wanted to go back!

[The Doctor.]

137. Oh, there's sure blame to go around here.

This is a failure of parenting overall, but some kids are damn near unmanageable.

It is unfortunate that things have suddenly changed in ways that cannot be for the better.

[MADem]

138. I am old enough to know that it is pointless to decry the "good old days" and I also

know full well there were troublemaking "little baaaastids" way back when, too, but damn--when kids are mean, they're MEAN, nowadays!

Maybe it's the increased availability of media--thirty, fifty, seventy years ago, this story wouldn't have made the nationwide papers (even if such a thing as tasers existed)--it would be a local story. Maybe we're just hearing about it more. I don't know.

Of course, back in the "old days," the women would be almost forced to stay at home and "keep house." No latchkey kids, unless the parent was widowed. Even if the woman didn't want to stay home, it was almost mandated (or the woman would be looked down on)--and if the husband stayed home, he'd be a "slacker."

Times are just different. I wish there was a 'parenting magic bullet,' though, that would give parents the skills and attention span they need so that their kids aren't beating the shit out of them over a cell phone.

[The Doctor.]

139. Lot of truth there.

Yes, we know more about our true nature due to the miracle of information technology. It's great to watch the Religious Reich get head-explody over it.

Yes, the parenting paradigm has changed. Mostly, I believe, due to the disappearing return on value of production in working class America.

More people have to work more to make 'just enough' to survive these days.

I would posit that this has a great deal to do with the apparent surge in juvenile delinquency these days.

Thank you for helping me arrive at that.

Any comments?

[uppityperson]

87. Locals said it wasn't "heavy traffic". If it was, was she safer convulsing in said traffic?

1) on the Du topic on this last week, locals said that this was not a high traffic area and she wasn't in danger of getting hit.

2) If those Duers weren't locals and she was in danger of getting hit, how would having her convulsing in traffic be safer for her?

[MADem]

95. You'd have to ask the cop. Perhaps he zapped her before she got into the road.

And, like I said, I live on a road that doesn't have heavy traffic most of the time...just at rush hour.

[The Doctor.]

59. Yeah, I can't think of any either.

CPS can't do too much under such circumstances though. This was just a case of unenlightened parenting.

[TexasObserver]

65. The best option was for everyone to calm down.

I raised my three kids, and had to take phones away on occasion. When you're the parent, and you are paying for the phone, suspending service is YOUR best option. Why yell when you can bring them to their knees by cutting off phone service, or cable, or internet, or rides? Parenting requires judicious use of one's power as a parent. Requiring adherence to the rules means using smartly the things available for positive and negative reinforcement.

Screaming parents create screaming kids, and when they reach middle school or so, that's when it explodes in the face of the screaming parents. I raised three kids who are in their mid to late 20s, all solid citizens, and I never screamed at them or hit them once. Never called the police on them or anyone associated with them. Never had any kids fight or even start acting a fool at my home. Children are not that difficult to manage, if you do so from the time they are little ones and are consistent and reasonable. Their friends loved coming over to our house, too, and several told me they appreciated being in a home where no adult was going to hit, demean, or yell at anyone.

Being a good parent means cutting them slack when they need it, knowing when to back off and let everyone calm down, and take time to get better control of one's emotions.

In this matter, we don't know if the girl was anything more than a typical 14 year old girl, but we KNOW that her mother and the policeman handled their jobs poorly.

[winyanstaz]

41. Tazers should be outlawed now.

They kill and they maim and this needs to end.

[Pavulon]

62. So does 40s&w

given the choice i would rather they default to the taser, and spare the drunk and stupid, then have to use the primary weapon. It is a little harder on the brain.

[ManiacJoe]

69. Tasers and guns are not interchangeable on the force scale.

They are used for two very different circumstances with very different expected results, non-lethal vs lethal.

[Pavulon]

117. I believe they are right below

lethal force. Batons, tasers, etc. Next step gunfire.

[ManiacJoe]

119. It depends on the agency.

Some place the tasers before the batons, some after. Either way, it is a big step up from the non-lethal categories to the lethal category.

[MADem]

43. Well, if she's recovering, then the taser WAS "non-lethal."

I don't generalize. Some police officers have my respect, and others don't. Just because one police officer makes a stupid decision doesn't mean that all do. I've had police stop and help me, and show me courtesy and kindness. They're not all jerks, and to characterize them that way isn't fair.

The mother, apparently, reached out to the police for help with her wayward daughter -- the daughter apparently beat the mother up:

The girl was hit in the head Thursday by one of two darts fired simultaneously as she was fleeing, Hatcher said.

The other dart lodged in her hip.

Hatcher said be believed he had no other option.

“There’s a lot of issues,” Hatcher said. “She committed a delinquent act. She was running from police across traffic without looking.”
....Akin said she and her daughter were arguing over a cell phone.

Akin said she drove her daughter to the Tucumcari Police Department to seek help.

While in front of police headquarters, her daughter walked away, Akin said.

Hatcher said he was at another incident when he received a call that a young girl had run off.

Hatcher said he returned to department headquarters and talked to Aikin, who had a bloodied lip and scratches from a fight.

Hatcher said he found the girl at George Molinas Park.

Hatcher said he got out of his vehicle, called to her and she ran in front of his patrol car across Monroe Street without looking for traffic.

Both were in a dead run when the Taser was fired, Hatcher said.

Hatcher said if he’d been able to grab her and put her on the ground, he would have done it instead of firing the Taser.

“There was a lawful reason to do that,” said Hatcher. “I didn’t have another choice and had to get her stopped.”

Akin and her daughter were new in town, Hatcher said, and he did not know where she would go.

[RedCappedBandit]

48. Tasers have no business in the hands of these people

[Iggo]

51. Yay, Cops!

So brave.

[stewartcolbert08]

124. LOL

Here here!! :toast:

[backscatter712]

58. The cop's story doesn't add up here.

For one thing, how the hell did that taser dart end up in the girl's brain? It takes a huge amount of force for that dart to punch through solid bone and end up in her brain. He'd have to have fired that taser from point-blank range.

The cop couldn't catch her, yet, somehow, he could get that taser within point-blank range so he could make that shot. Right....

[Cid_B]

122. Ah yes... statistics straight out of your ass...

What is the the required pressure to penetrate the bone density of a 14 year old girl? What is the minimum distance required for a barb to penetrate that bone ( in inches and feet please)? What is the velocity of the barbs from that particular model of tazer?

Fer' Chrissakes dont embarrass yourself.

[Taitertots]

70. Reasonable taser use

I guess he should have chased her down and tackled her on the concrete. I'm sure that couldn't possibly cause more harm than a taser.:sarcasm:

[Cali_Democrat]

76. I'd rather be tackled on concrete than have a taser go through my skull and into my brain

But hey, that's just me.

[Taitertots]

78. I'd rather just not run from the cops

But hey, that's just me.

I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if you got your skull bounced off the concrete in the process. Then when you get the felony resisting arrest with violence charge, we will see how you feel.

[Cali_Democrat]

80. Perhaps you're right.

Who knew it could be such a hard proposition to subdue a 14 year old girl. I mean, they can be incredibly threatening.

When in doubt....TASER THE GIRL!!!

:eyes:

[Taitertots]

83. Have you ever tried?

I'm sure a grown man tackling a 14 year old girl on concrete is not without risk. Just as tasering is not without risk.

I've never tried tackling and handcuffing a 14 year old girl, but I can't imagine it could happen without her getting injured.

[Cali_Democrat]

84. Who said you have to even tackle the girl?

Just run up to her and grab her. Are you saying the cop isn't capable of running up to a 14 year old girl and grabbing her and then holding her?

If that's the case then perhaps the cop shouldn't even have a badge because apparently a 14 year old girl is too hard for him to catch.

[Quantess]

85. ..

[blueamy66]

136. I interned at an at-risk junior high....

and I was able to tackle and subdue 2 teen-age girls who were fighting at 2 different times...and I was a 125 lb. woman. It can be done. We had no weapons and had to "wing it".

Tasers need to be taken away from cops. And they need waayyy more trainig. I agree with the 2 year degree idea.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

77. I wonder why 100% of the police are blamed for the actions of 1%.

[uppityperson]

88. Police are capable of a lot of good, or a lot of bad, and it only takes a few bad ones

to overwhelm the good ones in many's eyes. I have had a run in in the last couple yrs with some of our local police and it has changed my attitude towards them a lot, for the negative. I am very sad about that, but they can have such power over you that a few bad ones ruin a lot for the good ones.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

90. My thoughts.

I have heard a few racists make similar statements. Such as I served with a bunch of them &*$@)% in the military and they treated me like shit. I got no use for any of them now. Shouldn't liberals be above such stereotypes. Please understand I am not accusing you personally of anything wrong, it's human nature. Small town local police can be a whole bunch of bad apples, so I understand the position you may be in.

David

[Raineyb]

99. You're comparing the complaints of racist who are excusing their own racism

to people concerned over the behavior of a group of people who literally can make life and death decisions? The racist is an asshat, their excuse making not withstanding they're basically saying, "a few fill in the blanks didn't treat me as though I were king so I don't like any of them" and then there are people who complain about the police who are saying "we have a group of people who are authorized to carry weapons who are often abusive and worse, the institution they work for helps the abusers escape justice and are a problem." And you think it's the same thing?

:wtf:

It's not even the same thing. Thanks for helping to minimize the legitimate fear some have of the police by comparing it to asshat jackasses who are pissed because the cannot openly declare themselves superior and not be looked down for it.

If your name didn't make it obvious your comment would clearly show where you bread is buttered.

[uppityperson]

106. Thank you for putting it more politely than I might have

[Name removed]

113. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

107. Incredible. Being wary of those who have life/death decisions over you = racism?

Wrong. They are not comparable. See the other reply below (from other poster) for a more in depth response.

Every time a police officer acts like an asshole, it harms all those who don't.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

112. It's all stereotyping, sorry you don't get it.

[uppityperson]

115. Believing that a cop holds life/death over you is "stereotyping"?

Being wary of someone who holds life/death decisions over you is "stereotyping"? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

118. Thinking that every cop is bad and may kill you for fun is stereotyping.

[uppityperson]

121. Being concerned that someone who has life and death decisions over you might not be so nice

so you are watchful may be stereotyping but is wise.

[Raineyb]

98. Because they don't do a damn thing about the 1% until someone gets hurt or killed

And often not even then.

Perhaps they should try doing something about that 1% (although I doubt it's only 1%) to better ensure the safety of the populace. Then maybe they'd get the benefit of the doubt. As it is that blue wall that protects the dirtiest of cops doesn't buy a lot of benefit of the doubt.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

114. They routinely prosecute bad cops. They have prosecuted 3 in my community in the last month.

[uppityperson]

116. Some places perhaps. Others not so much. They also pass on bad cops

to other places, or just let them continue. It sounds like your community either has some really bad police, or else that they are working hard at making sure there are no bad ones. Hoping for the second as that will definitely help.

[wantoutnow]

89. well

as long as she wasnt doing anything wrong, she had nothing to worry about. Is that about right?:sarcasm: Learn to love the police state! Its for your safety!

[Vinca]

100. If this had been my 14 year old child they would be examining

their policies before a judge and my kid's college education - assuming she was still capable of attending - would be paid for . . . and then some. There's a local taser case working through the courts that should be interesting. 2 nonviolent protesters who were chained to a barrel were tased and the Vermont AG agreed it was excessive force. The police chief of the department had been fired in part over this incident despite the fact he had told the officers involved to use restraint with the protesters. Last week his lawsuit was settled for $275,000.

[MADem]

111. The police chief is on administrative leave.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_12771841?source=rss_emailed

They have film of the incident and it will be reviewed:

http://www.qcsunonline.com/news/firm-7367-private-shooting.html

...A private firm is investigating last week’s Taser-dart shooting of a Tucumcari teen to determine whether any policies were violated and whether excessive force was used.
Tucumcari City Manager Bobbye Rose wrote via e-mail the Albuquerque-based Robert Caswell Investigations was recommended by the New Mexico Municipal League. She said state police were contacted “but would not do the investigation unless it was a criminal matter.”
Rose wrote the city wanted to “get a fair and independent opinion” regarding the incident.
Caswell’s Ricky Folley said the investigation should be concluded “sometime next week.” He declined to discuss the case further.
...

[Echo In Light]

127. That's just it: these sadists count on people not fighting back on all the levels they can

[stewartcolbert08]

123. I support Taser use

WHEN NECESSARY! However, in our department the guys are trained to NEVER EVER tase someone when they are running away from you or in hand cuffs. It is against policy for reasons like this and why would he tase her while she is running into traffic, so that she can fall into the street and get hit by a car? That doesnt make any sence. I dont know if you would call this police brutality though. Sounds like just some negligent jack ass to me. And I am pretty sure they are not allowed to tase above the shoulders here either! :shrug:

[tuckessee]

134. The taser was sold to us as a sometimes substitute for a gun.

They'd only use tasers in places where they would normally have to shoot someone, like a knife wielding suspect who is some distance away, etc.

Well, we were lied to. Cops will use tasers at the drop of a hat. Sometimes they use them just for giggles & grins.

edit - to add ommitted word from title