Are there four events going on simultaneously? Is there a reason to

[peacetalksforall]

obfuscate which event is being discussed when little news quotes are added to the news as the hours go by?

1. Panetta is said to have learned about some 'program' that was secret to him, Congress, and the President - a program he put a stop to last week? New.

2. We had the 'massacred' grave in Pakistan - supposedly the person in charge of it is connected to the CIA. New.

3. We had Holder saying something about an investigation related to 'torture' with a hint of a possibility that there were other methods and other pictures. New for mentioning it, not new as far as a torture investigation.

4. We are having a dsicussion about the Cheney 'assassination team', which is nearly old news. Though there is mention of this a year or more ago, it got revived by Hersch at a speech in March 2009 in MN. Not new.

Program. Massacre. Torture. Assassination Team.

Is there an attempt to obfuscate? For example, if they don't want to talk about the shocking 'program' that Panetta found out about, why not mention that you're thinking about an investigation into torture. Would those without the time to follow it believe that it was about the 'program' and believe that justice was being done? (The reference to 'those' coulod be the present or former administration.

I get the distinct impression that DUers and the press are mixing up the words by mentioning prison torture related to Panetta and we really have no idea what the program is about. It may have nothing to do with torture. It could have something to do with the deaths of all those bio-chemistry scientists that have taken place. It could be a selling and buying arrangement with profits to a few. It could be a new twist on spying (on us). It could be what has been talked about often - a blackmail operation. I don't thik it's about the massacre or torture (unless there is a new angle) and I don't think 'program' is about a secret assassination team.

Is the 'program' some activity that we've never heard of before? Congress acted like it.

I think we should exchange talk based on 'program' being something different so that it doesn't get lost down a hole.

[MadMaddie]

1. Whatever it is Holder is alarmed which alarms me.

[Solomon]

2. You do realize the implications of the fact that Cheney

has been operating a secret CIA program without Congress or the President's knowledge, for six months into Obama's term as president, right?

What were they doing and who were they targeting?

Treason of the highest order.

[peacetalksforall]

4. Precisely - treason. Which provides a reason to take it underground for awhile so that

the people are not asking about it while evidence, scope, and ramifications are prepared - especially if it is about us or even other countries. It is probably about selling for proft or use of something owned by the us - for example - the database with all our stuff on it - duplicating and taking it with them while continuing to add data from government and corporate or associations - things that they can't get on their own.

[lxlxlxl]

7. why do you think cheney was running a program actively until a few weeks ago?

i dont get it...because the Panetta didn't find out about it until now? we don't know how the CIA learns what it does. yes, if a nonoperational (if you believe cheney) program was shelved, and not shared with the next admin, that's an internal CIA thing.

but to say that cheney continued to run the program during an obama admin seems like a stretch?

[peacetalksforall]

8. Why running a program until a few weeks ago? Because Panetta said he put a stop to it (or on it).

The first announcement about it said it was stopped.

[Still Sensible]

3. It seems to me the Panetta action

points to some domestic use of the CIA, which is and has always been forbidden. That is one thing that many congress people, the Justice Dept and the FBI would be quite upset about. Of course, the Bush administration and the rollover congress rolled the CIA, FBI and other agencies under the DHS... but I don't think the prohibition against domestic CIA activity was ever lifted.

[hootinholler]

5. Unfortunately we don't have enough info to make the determination.

You can be certain there is obfuscation going on.

-Hoot

[lxlxlxl]

6. agreed...why is the story initially framed as 'program kept from congress'

as if congressional accountability is even remotely close to being the most significant angle

this should be about dishonest people promising us to 'keep us safe' and hwo they were the only ones to do it, and they couldnt...