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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:21 PM
Original message
Did the unrec feature kill this Babylonsister thread which deserves greatest page?
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 11:45 PM by Liberation Angel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x462868

Scott Horton: Torture Prosecution Turnaround?
Posted by babylonsister

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-... /


Torture Prosecution Turnaround?
by Scott Horton
July 12, 2009 | 9:22am

The attorney general is leaning toward appointing a special prosecutor to investigate Bush-era torture policy, sources tell Scott Horton. Inside the logic driving Eric Holder’s possible conversion.


The Obama White House has deflected calls for appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the formulation and implementation of Bush-era torture policies with an argument that they want to “look forward, not backward.” But Justice Department lawyers took careful note of a different statement President Obama made yesterday in Ghana: “You have the power to hold your leaders accountable.” Now two sources in the Justice Department confirm to me that Holder is preparing to appoint a special prosecutor to conduct a comprehensive investigation and, if necessary, bring charges. They caution that the final call has not been made. And senior Justice Department officials remain concerned that meddling by the White House’s political wing would undermine the appearance of the Justice Department’s independence.

Holder’s path to a decision was described as prolonged and surprising. Holder began his review mindful of the clear preference of President Obama’s two key political advisers—David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel—that there be no investigation. Axelrod and Emanuel are described as uninterested in either the legal or policy merits of the issue of a criminal investigation. Their concerns turn entirely on their political analysis. They have advised Obama and other senior figures in the administration that the torture issue is a “distraction,” and that any attention on it would detract from Obama’s ability to push through his agenda—especially health-care reform. Holder initially appeared prepared to satisfy their wishes.

But, then, Holder decided to take a close, personal look at the issues, and his perspective began to change. Holder is said to have been closely engaged with three sets of documents—a group of memoranda from the Bush-era Office of Legal Counsel, since repudiated by the Justice Department; the report of the Office of Professional Responsibility on these memoranda, which has been on his desk, awaiting review and release for months; and the report of the CIA’s inspector general reviewing in great detail the actual techniques used, guidance given by the Justice Department, and results or lack of results obtained.

Holder released the first set of memoranda and his Justice Department publicly suggested that it would release both the related report and the CIA inspector general’s report—often viewed as the Rosetta Stone of the torture controversy. As he read through the latter two documents, my sources said, Holder came to realize the focal and instrumental role that Department of Justice lawyers had played in constructing the torture regime and in pushing it through when career lawyers raised objection. He also took note of how the entire process was orchestrated from within the Bush White House—so that more-senior lawyers in Justice, sometimes even the attorney general, did not know what was being done. And he noted the fact that the United Nations Convention Against Torture, to which the United States is a party, requires that a criminal inquiry be undertaken whenever credible allegations of torture are presented.

snip//

In the days after Obama’s speech at the CIA, both Axelrod and Emanuel insisted that the White House had made the decision that there would be no prosecutions. According to reliable sources, that incensed Holder, who felt that the remarks had compromised the integrity both of the White House and Justice Department by suggesting that political advisers made the call on who would or would not be criminally investigated. After Axelrod and Emanuel made their statements, Holder realized, a source said, that the Justice Department might have to appoint a special prosecutor to uphold its reputation for independence.

Observers caution that even if a special prosecutor is appointed, actual indictments would still be far off. The Bush torture policy was implemented with the advice of lawyers well skilled in the ways of Washington bureaucracy. Any prosecutor would face considerable legal obstacles in bringing charges. A review of the torture memoranda themselves shows that a consuming concern was thwarting the possible bringing of charges by a future prosecutor. Now, perhaps, the defenses they devised may be put to the test.


Scott Horton is a law professor and writer on legal and national-security affairs for Harper's Magazine and The American Lawyer, among other publications.



I think the unrec feature killed this worthy post. Babylonsister's threads frequently make the greatest page and frankly i cannot imagine WHY this would not make it there.


Please. admins, consider this matter carefully

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh for Christ's sake - lots of her threads are making it there
Calling out threads like this to make a point is annoying.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm just making the point that this thread deserved the greatest page and...
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 11:29 PM by Liberation Angel
I think it may have been a victim of the unrec thread.

"calling out" is a critique of someone.

i am SUPPORTING Babylonsister!

and demonstrating the downside of the unrec button

AND putting the issue she raised back out there!

It should NOT get marginalized!
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. She currently has 8, count them, 8! threads on the Greatest Page
Don't you see how picking one particular thread to make a point without all the facts is silly?
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. This thread is a perfect example
because it is controversial it may have been marginalized.

Without the totals we cannot tell

But i think it deserves more coverage.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. This thread is getting lots of kicks and replies
Most people should be so lucky, most of mine sink like a rock and you'll never hear me whine about that.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. Not the one linked in the OP, which I was referring to
I was not referring to MY thread, but the one about torture prosecutions and Holder
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
50. You're "calling out" the admins who created the feature, and the DUers who may not have
thought the thread belonged on the GP.

Grow up. Get over it. Your opinion is not controlling, here.

Your credibility will be "marginalized" if you continue to whine about this new feature.

ADJUST. It's what adults do.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
75. "grow up?" Plenty of adults here object and feel it is damaging to DU.
One thing about opinions is that they are good for a debate in democracy.

Marginalizing them diminishes the debates.

adults should agree on that.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
95. U can only unrec a BUHWAWAWAWA if it is in the OP. I'll post one for you so
that you can unrec it.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nope.
I checked Editorials. It's still there.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. The thread was not killed, I just saw it on DU. nt
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. By "Killed" I mean marginalized and sinking out of sight
sinking into the gloom.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Then kick the thread. I kick threads I like. A simple "K&R" will do the trick for more views.
I judge whether or not to open a thread based on the subject line, not the recs.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I did kick it.
But it still sank.


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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I kicked it too, but some threads just don't spark comments.
You could always kick it again, which you sort of did with this OP.

I am not convinced the unrec feature kills threads.

This thread has negative recs, but it is still floating. I have not personally reced or unreced this thread.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. It is reasonably high on the forum
There are plenty of threads that have interesting important content that sink almost immediately. This hasn't - nor should it.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. That's because I posted the link
It was DOA with only 4 recs.

There is only one explanation IMHO.

But only the admins know.

I wish they'd post the totals

at least we'd know if threads WERE being killed.
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mamaleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:07 AM
Original message
So it's marginalized if people have to browse forums to see it?
Maybe the Greatest Page just needs to go away and die. The epeen stroking doesn't add to anything.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
60. A lot of threads sink because they aren't the current flavor de jour.
I agree though the thread deserves good consideration.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hopefully the unrec function kills your wild speculation of a thread.
:thumbsdown:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Its a question for discussion, you can speculate that I'm wrong...
Edited on Mon Jul-13-09 11:32 PM by Liberation Angel
DU is full of discussions


and speculations

feel free to speculate that the unrec button did NOT kill it.

Without totals its impossible for us commoners to tell
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Discussed. n/t
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
79. If your goal is to make DU home page, forum placement is KEY!!
GD/GDP/LBN are the most widely read forums that can have threads placed on the DU homepage (Lounge is too but threads can't be put on homepage).

Nuff said.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. The unrec feature was designed by the Grassy Knoll shooter as he flew a Chemtrail mission over WTC.
What else do you expect? :shrug:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Lone Gunmen II Pilot?
That would be a great episode.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. It actually would make a pretty good one, now that I think about it. n/t.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. Yeah like the original pilot with the shadow government flying a passenger jet into WTC
which appeared 4 months before 9-11-01

Freaky huh?
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. HA!
With all of the seriousness it deserves... :freak:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Truther engineers have conclusively proved that as Tower #7 collapsed, contrail skywriting appeared:
"NON-REC FUNCTION COMING IN EIGHT YEARS TO DOOM US ALL"

Hey, I just report: you decide.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. Oh that's good, I was really worried.
They told me they were going to kill a puppy every time someone used the unrec function, bastards!

I don't know if you're a Sponge Bob fan but there's a scene where Clam-moo escapes from the zoo and the news announcer instructs everyone to run around in circles and scream.

And they do.

That is DU.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #38
57. Greatest Reply Ever!
:rofl:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
76. So you are basically saying I am a "Truther"?
I haven't posted on that subject yet.

You diminish those concerned about LIHOP, MIHOP, and chemtrails and associate me with them.

thereby denigrating me.

nice work.

i am sure you are in the happy mainstream.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. The feature did not kill the thread - it is currently #4 on the editorial forum
In fact, what likely hurt it is that fewer people read that forum than do GD and GDP. It is possible that unrecommend kept it off the greatest list, but it is also possible that only 4 people recommended it. At any rate, it is hard to believe that it would be anywhere other than at the very bottom category of the greatest page.

The forum likely hurt more.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. No.. A) It only had 9 comments and B) it was on the lightly-read Editorials forum

In fact, I'd bet it didn't have a SINGLE unrec.


9 comments and +4 rec/unrec. Pretty good ratio.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
47. This speaks to the issue of having the rec/unrec totals available
That would answer my question
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I've got no problem with showing the up/down totals for each thread
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's not on Greatest after like 1 hour? OHNOES!!!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Its been Two daysBloo. It's closed for business. Get up
I recc'd it but I do not know if anyone else can still

Get up and dust your smileys off.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Ah - my bad - was looking at Last Reply date/time apparently.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. fair enough - you had me going
but I was so busy trying to unfreeze my computer after my posting glitch that I got lost for a minute

and thought you had me
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #45
69. Ok - that's spooky. My computer went down soon after, last night.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. I don't understand this comment
the thread they are referring to is over 24 hours old - maybe you looked at the start time and not the date?
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Okay, that pisses me off ...

People who post links that are "reply" links need to be taken out and beaten mercilessly with wet noodles.

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Completely drenched noodles!
It's annoying isn't it.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Beats me.
Sorry
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. What beats you?

Wet noodles?

I'll show you a went noodle.

Seriously ... don't do it. It's obnoxious. Very. And there's only one possible way of doing it so don't try to pretend it was some "glitch." Either you didn't copy the correct link, or you did it on purpose. Either way is annoying. Permalink is your friend for posting links to threads.

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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I fixed the link,
that mistake froze my computer too
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Okay then ...

Thank you.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Your link mistake has caused me to kick that thread twice now, and I am kicking this thread again
telling you about it, which gives you a nice opportunity to kick both threads again by replying to both of my replies.

I can't keep this up though because I am going to go ask my wife to watch a vampire cartoon with me. She told me she wanted to watch it, so I am going to have to take her up on it.

Again, cool accidental link.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. LOLLOLLOL!
seriously I could not stop laughing for a minute there

Funny as hell!

OOOOP!

Heh.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Who cares what anybody here thinks? Kiss your mother with that mouth?
Really.


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. Imagine . . . some center-right posters thing "enough on TORTURE, already!" . . .!!!!
We need to have TORTURE kept under our noses as often as possible -- !!!
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-13-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. How does copy and paste
bring you to the level of greatness?
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. The original OP I linked to is worthy but it was closed to recs
as near as i can tell.

And I can't figure out why this happened unless people unrecc'd it and kept it off the greatest page.

And if this OP makes it then so will the original OP
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
43. You need a new hobby...nt
Sid
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. you too
but maybe it is more than just a hobby?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
49. The clique has spoken, now just STFU and go wait in the corner until they
need you again. That will be in 6 - 9 months when primary season kicks in. Oh, and during the next donation cycle.

Just keep on :rofl:ing, DU is being Americanized. Dissenting opinions are only necessary when we're out of power and we want to feel that we're not alone.


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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Yeah but they promised a Secret Decoder Ring and this week I don't know WTF is goin on.
:eyes:
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. kuckoo.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
51. there are a number of threads covering the same ground already there
perhaps we're smarter as a group than you give us credit for.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
54. Deserves it according to you - so give it your one recommendation
one person one vote to recommend or unrecommend
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
55. Just because a thread gets the 5 plus recs does not mean it ends up on the Greatest Page.
It just does not. I have sat and watched threads with 10 , 11 recs, never make it there. So what.. The threads were great anyway. Most people do not even go to the greatest page source. The four or five that get on the front need a gazillion recs to get there.

Good Threads are good threads, no matter where they are.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
56. kicking for exposure
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
58. Because you wanted 500 replies to your other thread instead of 200?
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 07:40 AM by JTFrog
Some stifling feature that is. :eyes:

Many OP's on the greatest don't get that many replies.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
59. It doesn't "deserve" the Greatest page unless it has net +5 recommends.
Your system would allow you to decide which threads go to the Greatest Page, in spite of the opinions of others.

Your vote is no more or less relevant than any other vote.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
61. ROFL. Right now that thread has ZERO unrecs.
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 08:25 AM by Skinner
I repeat:

Right now that thread has ZERO unrecs.

So, the reason why that thread has not made it to the greatest page is because ONLY FOUR PEOPLE HAVE RECOMMENDED IT. The Unrecommend function is NOT the reason.

There have been some pretty hilarious complaints about the unrec function. But this one takes the cake. I think people need to let it go. The unrec function is here to stay.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Wow! Right down the middle of the plate, a Randy Johnson, bird killing fast ball!*
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 08:28 AM by TexasObserver
*as seen in this short video, for those who never saw it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KteP6k1wg94
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Can we get a statistician's word on how likely that was?
One in a million at least. I just love the reactions of the catcher, batter, and umpire...

*WHAM*

*back away slowly*

:rofl:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Think of all the times it hasn't happened. Every other time.
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 10:07 AM by TexasObserver
I've not heard of that happening anywhere else except that one incident. So appropriate, too, given The Unit's fast ball. I used to love to watch him pitch.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Kicking for this post...
thanks, Skinner.

Sid
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. Thanks! That is very interesting information.
Lots of inaccurate stuff out there on this subject.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. pwned
Nice shot!
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #61
72. Thanks - I posed this as a question BUT because we cannot see the "vote"...
we have no way of knowing.

I can see how some threads just get missed depending on the title or the topic.

But this was an important post IMHO and so I tried to raise its visibility

Thanks for the answer.

My guess was wrong.

But under the current system I had no way of knowing if I was right or wrong (which i think speaks to the issue many have: let us see the numbers of recs/unrecs!

You do a great job.

My antinuke threads are getting creamed under the unrec feature.

But I concede.

I will just have to try harder to post better threads.

and hope organized opposition (or opposition in general) is not overwhelming
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #72
82. Because you can't see the vote you just pulled an assumption out of thin air?
:eyes:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. I asked a question BUT I had my assumption
I was wrong on that post

I admit it

But I still think the unrec function will get gamed by corporate interests and freepers and I am not alone on that.

Time will tell
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Why don't you just relax and enjoy DU and try not to take it all too serious
The demcocratic party does not evolve around the happenings of one internet webforum. DUer come here to have fun, post opinion and play 'armchair quarterback' as to how we'd do things if we were elected. We laugh together, cry together, protest together and definately argue with each other. I don't think any of us take this REC feature too seriously other than a way to reward a DUer for a well written article, a valid point or a good news story find. There is NO conspiracy theory here.

I don't know you very well, that' doesn't mean I wouldn't like to know you better; however, I do know the admin and especially Skinner and Earlg. Mainly I know them from various gatherings in the DC area - if some DUers get together one or both of them will make the effort to be there. And I can say this about Skinner and Earlg - they are some really great guys who have alot of themselves into this website. So I can honestly say that there is no means for malicious attempt whatsoever with this new feature.

As for corruption, it could as easily be done under the old system just as much as the current one. So why no one had hissy fits under the old system leads me to believe it's more about not wanting change then actually understanding the scope of this system.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Politics is serious and I know Skinner et al are serious activists
that is why i am here

I am a serious activist as well

and I post here because DU is NOT like any other site. It is unique and great in many ways.

i am not suggesting that there is any malicious intent on the part of anyone in the administration by any means with the unrec function.

I do enjoy the "battle" over ideas that occur here.

One of my most serious issues is nuclear power because my children were harmed by the nuclear industry. So was I. We were irradiated by the industry and got terribly sick and ultimately it will probably kill us (due to long term cancer and/or other health consequences)

They can game the system to marginalize that issue here.

It is really, from my perspective, a political battle of life and death (like the war ssues or the torture investigations issues).
One of my most serious reservations about Obama has been his support of the nuclear industry in the past.

he semed very good on this issue during the election and I have been hopeful that he would NOT support, by way of compromise, subsidies for the nuke industry.

That is on the table right now.

Apparently Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod (and I know very little about this but what I have seen on the web and have not researched it extensively) have closer ties to the nuclear industry than i am comfortable and might push Obama to compromise and permit subsidies in the Energy Bill.

Pornuke activists/partisans here have kept my prosts on this subject OFF the greatest page using the unrec function (based on the math I would say I had more than 40 recs and 37 unrec at least)

In the old days I would hve been near the top of the greatest page.
Nw the issue is marginalized and it is

again

a life or death typre issue to me.

DU matters and what is said here resonates and is atched by the media and by politicians. i have seen such luminaries as the Mrs. Edwards and the Kerry stepson (Heinz) and others post here.

What happens here matters.

The debate influences people.

So my little crusade might actually have an impact here.

The unrec feature diminishes that impact.

and it hit right as that bill and compromise for $50 Billion for nuke subsidies is being debated.

So it hurts all of us IMHO

I like DU and try to have fun.

But it is hard to relax when it is possible that people are possibly gaming the system to expose my kids to more harm (and all of us to more potential harm)

I like your posts ---

on this issue though I think you have een slightly misguided.

It is not DU and Skinner I blame for this, it is the inability of the technology to catch cheaters who game the system --- and until it happens that the technology is improved or a better system is set up, the unrec feature will hurt all of us.

My posts have had above 40 recs and should have been high on the greatest page. And maybe even prominent on the home page.

But they are not.

This hurts DU and all of us in this instance.

But the advice is well taken nonetheless


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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Everyone has their own interests
I grew up near TMI (I can tell you all about what I did this week and how we would waterski in front of the reactors even the summer after the incident). I'm probably like many that do not have issues with Nuclear Power but I still like to consider all forms of energy.

But I have my own pet peeves that I have tried to promote - some take and some done. Thing is, it's a democracy when it comes to deciding, something I felt did not exist under the old system.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. fair enough - but if you develop thyroid problems or cancer
Edited on Wed Jul-15-09 03:49 PM by Liberation Angel
you will understand what I am talking about.

If you lived near there have no doubt you know plenty of folks that have had or died of cancer and likely many have thyroid dtsfunction

I do not know f you've looked at the TMI research at www.radiation.org or www.nirs.com but the reseacrh on cancer clusters and thyroid damage is truly frightening.

The official sanctioned reports are all BS and stacked pronuke.

Like me, you may learn the hard way: when it kills a friend or someone in your family or you yourself get ill.

And they will say over and over that it was safe and that you cannot PROVE the emissions and leaks caused the problem.

It is really sad that so many people think this is all a-okay
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. I never said it was A-OK but how does it differ from other powerplants
Perfect example was shown in the movie "Erin Brockovich" where a non-nuclear power company was releasing poison chemicals into the drinking water of the local community and EVERYONE was getting cancer. Every powerplant, chemical plant, and other types of manufacturing plant has an inherant danger to those living in the surrounding community. The point is that we create regulations to monitor and assure that the pollutants are kept to a very minimum to the community around it. Living near TMI create no additional sense of urgency than I would feel if it was a coal or gas powerplant. For all of them there is a real danger.

And I still have immediate family in that area - and I'm talking a mile plant. TMI was 30 years ago and I've heard little about complaints of increased thyroid issues. Hell my stepsister, who lived in the school district right in the same town as Middletown - she was told to walk home from school that day. So far, I've heard nothing that seems out of the ordinary. But I do respect that there is a danger there - the entire family was giving iodine pills from the government.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. If you took iodine pills you may be okay (at least your thyroids
but depending on WHEN you took them and the dose AND what other substances you were exposed to you might NOT be.

Calcium protects against the other main danger Strontium 90. Because the emissions and gas blow up and away ir epends on the wind direction too (Downwindr get the worst exposure).

The way that it is different is really two primary ways: 1. deaths of infants in utero and shortly after birth and 2 permanent damage to your reproductive dna so that your shildren inherit mutations.

BASICALLY these are toxic chemicals which are also irradiated causing mutatiosn and cancer. But mutations of your eggs in the ovary or sperm in the male testes may cause the damage to pass to ALL future generations (on top of killing you off like most dangerous toins)

Now that is not completely unique in that many chemicals cause ancer and birth defects, but this permanently alters human dna composition FOR ALL TIME.Many people suffer depression, chrnoic fatigue, coldness in the extemities (intolerance to cold) and low body temperature, endometriosis and inflammation and a diminished immune system (acquired immunodeficiency) . ALL these are a possible sign of thyroid disorder and are often not picked up in standard blood tests (they just tell you your nuts.

So many people do not get this.

I coordinated and Earth Day seminar with an MD and a top physicist on this subject some years back and did extensive interviews with both.


Most power plants do have emissions like CO2 etc and many chemical plants have toxic mutagenic and carcinogenic wastes etc. But obody PRETENDS rthat that is safe and they get in trouble if caught.

The nuke industry lobbied and got permission from the executie branch (NRC regs) to spew these tocins into our communities LEGALLY even though all the evidence shows they are deadly.

They are the most powerful business on the planet because they have the biggest and nastiest and most destructive power in their possesion and can get away with almost anything (Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Targeted civilians and 100's of THOUSANDS of civilians dead. A war crime. No prosecutions.

But that is for another argument


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
77. OH, SNAP!
:rofl:
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #61
80. Oh come on Skinner we all know your'e a member of a secret DU society
financed by PNAC, the DLC and the Birthers out to repress important thought at DU

Just fess it up now - you know it

:hide:
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
93. Skinner, how about a feature where we can recommend specific replies?
Like on Slashdot?

:)



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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
63. I don't think so, there are
a lot of threads that don't make it to the greatest page and they are probably just as deserving.:shrug:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
67. Kicking for important info contained in this thread.
However one feels about this topic, the post by Skinner is the first and only post by him on the topic since his initial thread, so I thought others would want to see it, including the thread starter.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. We should be able to see the votes of unrec/rec
because it is still a popularity contest that can get gamed.

marginalizing many folks and issues will undoubtedly ensue.

For those who are in the mainstream that will be just fine I imagine.

I am more of a progressive lefty than that (though a registered democrat)
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
68. BUHWAWAWAWA.....It doesn't have any unreccomends!!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. Is there any way to just unrec "buhwawawawa's"?
or Mwuahaha's?

so friking annoying.


You could say i got pwned if I hadn't posted my OP in the form of a question.

My question was answered. My inference was in error.

And there is still a point to be made:

e should be trusted to ee the votes for rec/unrec.

Otherwise we have no way of knowing how many people even give a sh*t.


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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
78. I love babylonsister but she posted in a forum NO ONE HARDLY READS
I've rec'd a ton of her stuff and perhaps if she posted it in GD I would have recommend that too.

However assinine assumptions made by DUers ALWAYS get an unrecommend.

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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. and her "blowjob" thread made the greatest page at the TOP!
I was roundly shown to be wrong in my assumption on this one, though I posed it as a question.

and your point is well taken.

But "always" is not quite true since the unrec function has not always existed.


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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Top threads are GD/GDP/LBN
probably having "BLOWJOB" in a title helps too since sex sells.

Anyhow, Skinner has already proven your assumptions quite wrong.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. On this OP I was wrong - okay?
My assumption was wrong about Babylonsisters OP.

BUT that does not mean that my overall critique is invalid nor that my assumption that they system is already being gamed is wrong.

I just can't prove it.

For me the main thing is that Skinner and the admins be VERY aware and keep a close watch.

I think they are doing that

so my point gets made nonetheless and despite my wrong assumption here.

AND it made Skinner laugh.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. He was laughing at you, not with you.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Nice
very friendly and supportive

lovely

just lovely
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
84. IBTL
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. It won't get locked. Can't give the persecution-mongers any ammunition.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. What the hell is a persecution "monger" --- a VICTIM?
blame the victims

and those who want to see more openness and debate and NOT suppression and marginalization why don't you.

Yeah

we are the persecution mongers

sweet
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