think: WHY would Cheney NEED to continue running a black ops 6 mos into OBAMA's prez?

[Lerkfish]

although many things come to mind, let's think about this:

has there ever been any unelected executive branch official that continued to run a black program while out of office?


let's look at some of the reasons for a DOMESTIC black ops to remain secret:

1. to eliminate oversight -- in other words, if it saw the light of day it would be shut down
2. to overthrow a standing govt.
3. to elimnate dissent by strategic assasinations
4. to COVERUP.


Now, let's think about number four for a bit.... what would be SO egregious that Cheney needed to run the ops well within the Obama presidency to cover up?

We already know about torture, about renditions, about lying us into a war.... what could possibly be WORSE?


may I humbly suggest: LIHOP.

[Subdivisions]

1. 9/11. n/t

[live love laugh]

118. Disagree. I think he'd do it to push the Executive privilege issue fwd.

I think Cheney wants to set a precedent that says a former VP or POTUS has not just information gathering powers from the CIA but, after leaving office, they also retain the power to issue orders to those they previously governed.

[SpiralHawk]

2. LIHOP

or MIHOP

All the same.

CAPTION: Commander AWOL (R) swings into action on 9/11

[goclark]

62. Is that book upside down? nt

[ImOnlySleeping]

97. ya

but apparently it was a clever photoshop.

[tridim]

107. MIHOP is the Occam's Razor answer

I say that because we all know how Cheney operates. It's logical to assume that 9/11 was a Cheney project.

[lame54]

3. Paul Wellstone

[druidity33]

89. JFK Jr, nt

[stlsaxman]

94. Mel Carnahan.

[havocmom]

4. All of the above

[Echo In Light]

15. And than some

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. Can you give me a link showing that Cheney actually ran the program while Obama was Pres?

Everything I've seen says he instructed CIA not to disclose to Congress while he was VP, but not since leaving office. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying you're the first to say it did.

Three cheers to Leon Panetta (who used to be my local Rep.) for exposing it and shutting it down- I bet he's one of the "unnamed sources" who has provided more detailed background on the program to the press.

[Lerkfish]

7. his orders were still being carried out explicitly until panetta shut it down

normally, if someone left office, there would be an immediate review of the leaving official's programs. That review did NOT happen, so logically, Cheney was more in control of it than was Panetta.

If the black cell Cheney created continued to operate without oversight, then he is ipso facto still running it.


just using logic here. black ops, by their very nature, do not have a URL I can link to to show you CHeney pulling the strings. Detecting and understanding black ops depends on looking at the activities or lack of activities AROUND the ops.

[Fiendish Thingy]

12. ipso facto aside, your assertion that Cheney continued to direct the program after leaving office

is just a theory based on your speculation- don't get me wrong, it may be true, but so far no evidence has emerged to prove it.

Couldn't it be just as logical that, while Cheney didn't continue to run the program (which Panetta has described as "sporadic"), CIA staff loyal to Cheney concealed the program from Panetta?

[Lerkfish]

14. of course its my theory -- DUH. look at how the OP is worded

I'm asking QUESTIONS and asking people to THINK< and offering MY suppositions.

jeez. what is wrong with you?

[waiting for hope]

59. Then ask yourself why Cheney would

build his "retirement" home just 2000 feet away from the CIA?

Cheney’s New House Is CIA Adjacent

The New Neighbors Sure Like Black SUVs

I guess he wants to keep that girlish figure as he bikes to work.

[On the Road]

119. During the 90s,

Cheney lived in a townhouse in McLean, not far from his new home. An old boss of mine lived right down the street from him.

[senseandsensibility]

79. exactly

that sounds logical to me. Not that it excuses Cheney in the slightest. The bottom line, though, is that we will never KNOW until there is a credible investigation.

[tomp]

108. it is impossible to have a credible investigation from an un-credible govt.

people speak sometimes as if this is all about cheney. cheney is just one in a long line of manipulators of govt for illegal purposes. the govt allows it by looking the other way. the govt. is virtually illegal as it stands. cheney is the govt. as is ghw bush, clinton, goldman sachs, etc.

[Cobalt-60]

88. He's on TV a lot. Perhaps he is issuing instructions in code.

Instructions to the 5th columnists left behind to sabotage the Obama presidency.
I wouldn't suspect normal politicians of this.
But Republicans are Nazis at heart.
I'd rather be paranoid now than back under Republican dictatorship later.

[Demeter]

92. Why Would ANYBODY Be Loyal to Cheney?

You'd have to be a deluded, loving, ignorant and naive daughter to have any loyalty to that monster.

No, it would be either blackmail. payoffs, or both that allowed Cheney continuing access to his little network of moles and 5th columnists. And the brotherhood of vicious psychopathy.

[ImOnlySleeping]

99. I think

If your resume includes black ops, you probably have a different take on morality.

[get the red out]

105. filling offices with Fundy's

Considering that all those Fundy "lawyers" were hired into the Justice Dept over more qualified people who had attended real law schools, we have no idea what kind of brain-washed automatons were hired into the CIA during 8 years of George Bush. You would need a major extermination company to rid the place of moles, I would guess.

[defendandprotect]

37. Agree . . .

[jobendorfer]

29. Two things I would want to know:

Cheney set up a black operation while he was in office, it wasn't shut down or dismantled when he left office.
So for the last six months:

- What has this black op been doing?
- Who has been giving it direction?

J.

[TahitiNut]

64. I recall the wonderment that he custom built a home in McLean, near CIA HQ.

Funny, that. Dicky didn't move back to Texas or (of course) Wyoming. He didn't move to an area where he could pursue his 'hobby' of shooting his friends while caged birds got away.

Strange, huh? :eyes:



http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/39703

Must just be coincidental. Uh-huh.

http://wonkette.com/363302/cheneys-new-house-is-cia-adjacent





http://eyeball-series.org/cheney-uc/cheney-uc.htm

[Uncle Joe]

109. Now he can shoot his friends while the birds that should be caged get a way. n/t

[JackRiddler]

65. If it were true, where would find that link?

Front page of cia.gov, perhaps?

According to the current reports, the program (programs?) as ordered by him ran five months into the new administration without Panetta finding out. So if not on Cheney's orders, then whose? Self-appointed actors, either way.

[lunatica]

6. Cheney is a control freak. That's why.

[Lerkfish]

8. control of what?

that is the salient question here.

[Jennicut]

10. Well, obviously he still wanted to control the govt. while out of power

I am positive there are Cheney plants all over the govt.

[blm]

9. Because it worked so well to protect their fascist interests from 1993-2001?

REAL answers are allowed here, right?

[stray cat]

11. No evidence it was ever even implemented let alone continuing

they didn't notify congress of their planning - thats the offense.

[shraby]

16. If it wasn't implemented or continuing, why would

it need shut down?? It was shut down because it was implemented and continuing.

[defendandprotect]

38. And, if never implemented why was it still hidden?

[chimpymustgo]

52. For EIGHT years! This "cover story" doesn't come near passing the smell test.

So...they were planning it for EIGHT years. Never implemented it for EIGHT years. But it needed to be shut down...after EIGHT years.

[defendandprotect]

55. Raspberry on that one . .

[Political Heretic]

24. That's actually not true.

It's been well reported that the CIA director STOPPED the program when he was made aware of it and then, the next day, informed congress of what he had discovered.

[havocmom]

95. Which begs the question: What else is the new director unaware of?

If he doesn't 'ask the right questions' like congress failed to do, criminal elements at CIA are probably not gonna make an appointment with him and fess up on their own.

Seems reasonable to theorize that other programs may well exist. Cell structure and need to know basis for passing info seems a secure way of doing what shouldn't be done. Also MO of the intel workings.

If cheney weren't still pulling a lot of strings, he would not need to be within wheelchair distance of CIA.

[saltpoint]

13. I don't have evidential specifics at the ready but for what it may be

worth, I think Dick Cheney is a sadist.

Whether that would provide context for his public conduct, I don't clinically know. But it is the more diplomatic way of calling him a total asshole, which is how I really feel about the man.

[timeforpeace]

17. Ironic. If it had gotten bin Laden now, finally, Obama would have gotten credit.

[JDPriestly]

85. I realize that the rumor was spread that the secret program was

a plan to assassinate or attack the leaders of Al Qaeda. I suspect that explanation is not correct or true. Congress would not have been surprised if the secret program concerned attacking Al Qaeda. I suspect that the program was about something else, something that neither Congress nor the CIA nor the Obama or Bush administrations want the public to know. Just what it was, I have no idea. The OP suggest it might have had something to do with 9/11. If so, there would have been only an indirect connection -- maybe surveillance more intrusive than the illegal surveillance of electronic media. Perhaps something related to that surveillance that targeted politically unpopular movements or individuals or simply that targeted news reporters. I just don't think we have any real information about what was being done so secretively. It had to be something that Congress did not know about and would not have thought existed. There was some shock not only in Congress but in Panetta's office when it was first discovered. Perhaps something to do with Iran or North Korea? or some other country? or even the economy? We really don't have a clue. Let's face it.

[Hugabear]

18. JFK all over again?

A shadow conspiracy...hugely popular president...

I think there's something to this

[Grinchie]

83. Obama used to be a popular president... Now we are all cynical.

Unless you are blinded by stardust.

[kimmylavin]

114. 57% approval this morning.

Call me blinded.

Incidentally, the portion of DU that is not happy with President Obama do not equal "all."

[Beam Me Up]

121. I'm neither unhappy nor cynical re Obama. The BUCK no longer stops w/ president.

THAT, I think, is the problem over all. The Presidency has become hamstrung by very powerful entities operating behind the scenes. Obama may not be a willing puppet in the sense that Bush was but what he can actually do is limited by forces that have enormous power and influence. I think it is naïve of people to think that any president can step into the oval office and begin making substantive changes to the system -- and survive (either politically or literally). The Constitutional system IS NOT WORKING. We wouldn't be in the mess we're in politically, economically and every other way, if it were. The term "special interest groups" may be accurate but is too shallow, connoting little more than financial influence in politics. Yeah, there's that, but the influence that those associated with banking, energy and the military industrial complex have is overwhelming. For all practical purposes we no longer live in a constitutional republic -- we're an empire now. And very likely a dying one.

[Grinchie]

133. I was in that school for a while, but the evidence is obvious that he's part of the club now.

He's just a charismatic figurehead now, but nothing has changed, and that's was really counts. He's lost me and the millions of others that are concerned about our destructive, unhealthy agricultural system. His lack of action regarding the FED, as well as the cozy nature of helping them attempt to revive a consumer economy are pretty much doomed if we want the planet to survive.

I guess I could cut him some slack, if I knew who to blame for all the stupid policies that he claims to be responsible for.

[Hugabear]

132. JFK didn't have to deal with right-wing hate radio or today's media

n/t

[Grinchie]

134. Perhaps, but I think Americans have the Freedom of Speech misunderstood

Freedom of Speech does not allow Nonsense or propaganda to share the same stage as intelligent speech.

That's the problem here. Nobody calls out the bullshitters or the haters for what they are. They think free speech enables whatever the hell they want to say goes.

Why should Honesty and Truth be forced to share the stage with dishonesty and hate on equal terms?

[Lerkfish]

19. LOL! I see the unreccommend feature is hurting my thread now.

hilarious.

[Junkdrawer]

20. How many recs were you up to before the scolds weighed in?

:shrug:

[Lerkfish]

25. I WAS up to four, and then when I posted that post, it was down to 2

but since I posted, it has gone back up to 8 (at the moment).

this is a bizarre system.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. Yeah, and as of this moment, it's up to +57.

Still think it's bizarre?

[Lerkfish]

87. yup, still do.

I don't have a problem with it, just find it bizarre.

[DemReadingDU]

21. Where is Cheney nowadays?

Haven't seen him pop up from his bunker to refute this.

[redqueen]

22. Ever since it came out that he directed the CIA to lie to Congress,

he's suddenly not talking to the press.

[DemReadingDU]

28. Exactly, something's going on

Wouldn't surprise me if Cheney leaves the country.

[defendandprotect]

39. Seems he's living quite close to CIA/Langley???

[Stephanie]

42. He lives in McLean, aka Langley. His office is there too.

:scared:

[defendandprotect]

46. Just "c o i n c i d e n t a l l y" . . .

:scared:



thanks --

[waiting for hope]

60. 2000 feet to be exact ...

A tad bit close and a load of money for less than an acre lot: $1.35 million. A lot that he bought in 2000.

The New Neighbors Sure Like Black SUVs

Cheney’s New House Is CIA Adjacent

Second link has property details as well.

[DemReadingDU]

90. Hm, that is very interesting

I like that 2nd link

[Oldtimeralso]

81. He Won't Come Out Of His Bunker....

It isn't Groundhog Day!



On Second Thought: I must apologize to groundhogs, woodchucks and various other rodents.

[Political Heretic]

23. I'm not convince this "asassination" line is even the real program or the meat of the program.

[Lerkfish]

27. nor am I. it makes no sense because many americans would not be offended by assasinating Al Queda

so, like all misdirections, one should look in the opposite direction to see what is really going on.

[conscious evolution]

33. They were bragging about killing Al-Queda

How many number 2 men did they kill?
They also were bragging about taking out high value targets in othe countrys also.I remember them bragging about killings in Pakistan,Yemen and Somalia.

They are lying.

[leftstreet]

34. Very good point

:thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

40. I agree . . . there are so many pieces of the fascist puzzle missing that . . .

it's difficult to get a clear picture --

And, we're way behind on information of GOP dirty tricks --

no real info on that since Church report -- and now two other intelligence agencies

above them!

But I wouldn't ever think that we know even 10% of what went on -- and how dangerous

they are still.

[Enthusiast]

63. I think you are right.

The worst you can imagine is probably about accurate when talking about this cabal. Gathering information to black mail political enemies is very likely.

[defendandprotect]

136. Americans who even understand fascism have to understand this is global fascism. ...

Elites are linked, of course --

Walker, however, cited a recent inspector general's report on U.S. intelligence that said the surveillance was far broader than Bush had described and was on legally shaky ground.

Think it would be interesting to pull up Nixon's wiretapping list of "enemies" ---
He was even wiretapping Kissinger -- pretty much wiretapping Kissinger's pj's ...
But it would be good for DU'ers to see because too many of them are fooled by the
propaganda that Watergate was a big nothing! Evididently the new movie re the Frost/
Nixon interview also gives that view. I don't know, I haven't seen it.

I guess we have to keep waiting for whistleblowers . . . who are indeed courageous.

[chimpymustgo]

53. No way. Limited hang-out. Can you say "DOMESTIC SPYING" (or worse)??

[Jeep789]

77. I think the "assassination" line was very real

but the "Al Qaida" line doesn't ring true at all.

[Beam Me Up]

26. LIHOP being the least of it. n/t

[defendandprotect]

41. Also agree with that because that came so smoothly to them . ..

probably a few years in the planning but obviously Patriot Act - Homeland Gestapo Security -

and wars/WMD lies were the main part of the plans.

I think they realized a little later that they had to shut down CONGRESS . . . post-9/11 ...

they may have intended to attack Congress on 9/11 -- but someone may have recognized that

that would have been a step too far???

But I think the ANTHRAX attacks were a last minute solution to keeping info from citizens

from reaching Congress and keeping Congress itself shut down in view of both disasters . . .

the 2000 ELECTION and 9/11 -- !!!

Remember that the news that Gore won, including in Florida -- no matter how the votes were

counted didn't come out until just AFTER 9/11.

[crickets]

30. To add to your list of theories:

5. to undermine Obama's ability to govern effectively
6. to eliminate certain persons within government itself

Normally, I might think #6 was an overblown idea, but we aren't living in normal times. Anthrax, anyone?

edit: missing word

[csziggy]

35. Modify #6 to Blackmail certain persons within the government

And that would explain why Congress has not been doing the proper checks and balances over the Executive Branch. No need to eliminate people if you can eliminate their power.

[defendandprotect]

44. Interesting --

[crickets]

45. "No need to eliminate people if you can eliminate their power."

Excellent point, but I'd renumber it 6a. blackmail, and 6b. permanent elimination--just because I wouldn't put it past Cheney to keep that option open.

that (blackmail) would explain why Congress has not been doing the proper checks and balances over the Executive Branch

Yep.

[csziggy]

49. There have been just a few too many 'convenient deaths' over the last eight years!

So, yes, both possibilities.

[CoffeeCat]

70. Why do these schmucks take this blackmail crap?

We're talking U.S. Senators, Congress member and other highly intelligent, educated and seasoned
politicians and officials.

Does anyone have a frickin backbone or one ounce of creativity?

Blackmail the bastards back! Come on...is everyone going to sit around, allowing this pasty, fat-ass psycho Cheney
to run the country????

These people are so weak and pathetic--it really makes me ill. And to think that the world and our Constitution is
being destroyed because Cheney has a video catalogue of politicians, socialities, media member and assorted powerbrokers
screwing prostitutes, taking bribes, etc. Geez...is it worth it to these jellyfish, to watch the world destroyed to save
their own asses???

Do something. Anything.

[defendandprotect]

43. Totally agree . . .

and, of course, this is global fascism we're dealing with --

quite a powerful conspiracy.

[Politicalboi]

31. I think they took out Benazir Bhutto

[earth mom]

32. Makes ya wonder why Obama allowed it. nt

[ToolTex]

128. "why Obama allowed it." Just what message was being sent to Obama

by his personal airplane buzzing the Statue of Liberty, without his fore-knowledge? Maybe it was like that visit of J Edgar Hoover to JFK, early in his administration. You know, like, "I've got the goods and I hold the strings, and I'll take you (and your family) all the way down if you get out of line."

[defendandprotect]

36. Yes, I agree . .. centerpiece of Bush/Cheney . . . but

M I H O P

[chimpymustgo]

54. No doubt. MIHOP. 9/11. Anthrax. Wellstone. Carnahan. David Kelly. Cliff Baxter. On an on.

[defendandprotect]

56. It's the only way the right can come to power -- assassinations/stolen elections . . .

[troubledamerican]

69. Oh no you DI'HINT

Ruh roh

[Horse with no Name]

47. Perhaps the M$M should have asked the questions back then...

because WHY would a man that has such a horrible heart condition and ailing health, has more money than GOD and twice as many staffers...without a very good reason--carry his OWN boxes from his office at the WHITE HOUSE to a bungalow down the street from the CIA?
If only those questions could be answered....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28739925/
WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney pulled a muscle in his back while moving boxes and will be in a wheelchair for Tuesday's inauguration ceremony.

White House press secretary Dana Perino said Monday that Cheney was helping to move into his new home outside Washington in McLean, Va., when he injured his back.

[defendandprotect]

57. There's also a side of Cheney which makes me think that he didn't want to stand for Obama ...????

It what went thru my mind first I saw him in the wheel chair --

[JackRiddler]

48. To your question: has there ever been...

You ask, "has there ever been any unelected executive branch official that continued to run a black program while out of office?"

Yes. It is known that Cheney and Rumsfeld, for example, continued to participate among others in continuity of government programs during the Clinton administration, and it is unclear whether this was with the knowledge of the new administration's chain of command.

The "Shadow Government" (their phrase!) which these rehearsals helped to develop was activated on Sept. 11th, as revealed a few weeks afterward in the Washington Post. There has never been an announcement to the effect that it has been deactivated. No elected officials were members of it, except for Cheney himself. I think the line between active and inactive is hard to draw, long as the institutions defining this complex continue to exist under a cover of secrecy, and as long as the networks of those who appoint themselves as the shadow government remains coherent. (Consider the mentality that would be attracted to such planning in the first place.)

I believe there is a large community of the unelected - former and current officials and their associates in self-appointed networks - who consider themselves to be in government at all times, regardless of their actual status at any given times. They act as priests of the national security state in a presumed situation of permanent crisis, in which they must make hard decisions if they consider the civilian authorities to have gone wrong in their understanding of how properly to pursue the semi-divine commandments of US national security as they define them.

I am certain the keeping of secrets from the president and the conventional executive branch is routine about matters that exist in the gray zone of parapolitics (is it the state? or is it a state-like extension?).

The development of this parapolitical, extraconstitutional, cryptocratic realm, which one might conceive as an octopus with 50 heads and 1,000 tentacles (each opaque to most of the others, each capable of independent action), received three great impulses: in 1946-7 with the creation of the peacetime national security state and the CIA; in 1963 with the coup d'etat against the elected president by elements of that national security state; and in the 1970s as a consequence of the various CIA scandals, disclosures and investigations, with the creation of more independent off-budget means for "getting things done" that were viewed as imperatives of the cold war (such as the Safari Club and the later "Enterprise" model for freelance covert operations). This was the period that gave rise to the specific extended Bush mob that has wielded such power in and out of office ever since.

Financial manipulations, corporate-spook complexes, drug money and offshore money laundering all play central roles in providing the life-blood and sustaining environment for the quasi-governmental realm of self-appointed, state-like operators organized in networks interpenetrating the known official agencies, corporations, banks, think-tanks, foreign agencies, covert and criminal organizations, etc. This should never be described as a "conspiracy." It is an institutional environment, a political economy and a sociocultural biotope that enables and breeds conspiratorial plotting and the rule of organized criminal men as a matter of course.

[defendandprotect]

58. And, I'd add to that .... Watergate never really ended, either --

[PufPuf23]

72. Yep well stated nt

[omega minimo]

78. Why was Impeachment Off The Table?

[Grinchie]

84. Ask Pelosi, if you can get a straight answer out of it.

[Beam Me Up]

125. Wish I could recommend this post. Right-on JR! n/t

[DevonRex]

50. Happily recommended. nt

[defendandprotect]

51. kick

[bobthedrummer]

66. LIHOP

[OnyxCollie]

67. K&R. nt

[libodem]

68. He's got helluva lot of nerve

I just hope that if and when these internal terrorists ever go down it will be like Dominoes. How effin' guilty does one man have to be before he is indited?

[pjt7]

71. 9,11 is Cheney's families tattoo

forever.

Let's pull down the 5 cent curtain & realize Al-Queda has some overly idealistic Americans in it's membership. That murdered a lot of innocent folks.

BTW, We need to see Seymor Hirsh in front of the media 10X more than Lizzy Cheney.

[avaistheone1]

73. I don't trust that bastard at all.

[althecat]

74. I love that this thread has 80 recs... and is still in GD...

:)

Clearly not all is lost and DU still has its soul.

[wantoutnow]

75. To

take care of any 9/11 "conspiracy theories"? Shoe coming down? Probably not. Will be covered up to "save lives". You know, us being all wacko and tinfoily. Is that how you spell it?:hide:

[AntiFascist]

76. Let's examine some facts.....

I'm presenting these as facts, so please disprove them if you can.


Poppy Bush helped setup Saudi intelligence and air force. Also, while head of the CIA, he split off certain groups into private industry, which allowed them to avoid Congressional oversight.

There was a business relationship between the Bushes and the bin Ladin family.

The right-wing worked hard to raise $1 billion in a covert operation to arm the mujahadeen (and Osama bin Ladin) to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. ("Charlie Wilson's War")

Later, the Saudis were under pressure to remove US bases from Saudi Arabia, the land of Mecca and the religious center of Islam. At first, al Qaida was threatening the Saudi Royals.

There are allegations that certain Saudi royals together with certain bin Ladin family members provided funding to al Qaida and Osama bin Ladin so that the Saudi Royals would not be targeted. Around this time, al Qaida began targeting the US directly.

After the Gulf War, neocons were persistent about going back into Iraq and "finishing the job". Building bases in Iraq was part of the PNAC planning (Project for a New American Century).
2001 marked the beginning of the new century.

9-11 provided the ideal opportunity to motivate the American public to return to Iraq and overthrow the government. If Cheney "looked the other way" while 9-11 was being planned, it would have helped the larger goal of proceeding with PNAC.

[earcandle]

82. that is how I remember it. Makes sense, sister!

[Myrina]

102. IIRC, the bin Ladens are PART OF the Saudi Royals, or closely connected ...

... which makes the plot even thicker, that their own 'black sheep', as it were, would 'go rogue'.
Unless of course its all part of some twisted kind of business deal.


:shrug:

[AntiFascist]

130. Yes the bin Ladins are the second most powerful family in Saudi Arabia...

I've also heard 9-11 described as the result of a drug deal gone bad. One little reported story I've heard about why the Soviets lost the war in Afghanistan is because many became corrupted by the money to be made off of Opium dealing. In some of the footage of al Qaida members training while wearing masks, I sometimes wonder why many of them appear light-skinned, perhaps former Soviet defectors?

Edit: This is the essence of The Family business we need to understand better. More like 'La Famiglia'.

[earcandle]

80. 732 mercenary companies in 137 countries off the books?

Supplements provided by Clinton's non-profit?

to , uh... commit genocide to reduce the population
so that oil can still stand as the main source of energy?
sick.  I want to be wrong.   

What else could we be funding mercenary companies for?  Peace
work?

732 of them? or is it 737 of them in 132 countries?  I heard
it on CSPAN in 
Congressional hearings in recent years.  


listening to:
"I am glad I am me today". (The Hangovers) on Ear
Candle Radio

[Senator]

86. There Needn't Be A Single "Reason." In Fact...

...there's no real reason to believe that "it's over now" or that he wasn't running a group of rogue "patrions" -- like the non-violent Notra Trulock and Linda Tripp; and the sociopath Liddy -- for decades. Remember, this cheneycabal has known little else than playing fountainhead behind an idiot figurehead.



They know the smiling and waving stuff is for chumps.



The kind of egoists who stand idly by while real men "get the job done."



No, that's not Chuck Colson but http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/030106.html">one Don Wilson swearing to ... well, whatever cheney is asking him to swear. You see, even with various "jobs done" for various "reasons," it all still needs to be COVERED UP.

Eight years earlier, the senior George Bush had tried to undercut the Presidential Records Act before leaving office. On Jan. 19, 1993, the day before Bill Clinton’s Inauguration, George H.W. Bush struck a deal with then-U.S. Archivist Don W. Wilson, granting Bush control over computerized records from his presidency, including the power to destroy computer tapes and hard drives.

Wilson then landed a job as director of the George Bush Center in Texas in what looked like a payoff for ceding control of the computerized records. In 1995, a federal judge struck down the Bush-Wilson agreement, in effect, resuming the countdown toward the first implementation of the Presidential Records Act in 2001.

Facing that deadline while taking the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2001, George W. Bush had his White House counsel Alberto Gonzales draft up paperwork that first suspended and then gutted the law. Bush’s Nov. 1, 2001, executive order granted former national executives – and their families – the right to control the documents indefinitely.

And the rest is (sadly, our revised) history. You can look at http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=191817">a list of possible targets/victims and find "reasons" from taking Senate seats, to looting Enron, to protecting "assets" from Italian prosecution/revelation. And sure, any level of M/LIHOP could qualify.

Dealing properly with All The President's Men could have changed things. Dealing properly with October Surprise and Iran/contra could have changed things. Dealing properly with stolen elections could have changed things.

So, it's "our turn" and dealing properly with torture and war crimes can change things. Perhaps even to the point where solutions to more trivial, selfish matters -- like better healthcare and economic recovery -- would, as a result, drop into our laps like ripe fruit.

But "our side" is always so anxious to "look forward." Sorry, but that's how it lays out.

===

[TheUnspeakable]

93. GREAT post n/t

[Myrina]

103. Wow, this was eye opening!

I always suspected that the cabal was running things behind the scenes, especially when one looks at Poppy's roots in the CIA ... and Cheney/Rummy et al were "junior staffers" back then - just cutting their teeth on all the under-the-table stuff.

Especially suspected the 'figurehead' thing during the Reagan Presidency - Bush knew there was stuff he "needed" to do so he let senile Ronny make the speeches and play the role, while he (GHWB) actually ran the illegal ops.

But I didn't know about his gutting of the Presidential Records Act in an attempt to cover his own butt, nor where his 'Cleaner' Don Wilson ended up.


:(

[Ganja Ninja]

91. Am I the only one that thinks the term "executive assassination team"

was meant to be a thinly veiled threat to the next American president?

Does anybody know the whereabouts of these assassins today? Are they still employed by the US government or are they now working for Halliburton?

[mod mom]

98. Blackwater lost their contracts, must be some disgruntled RWers looking for work.

[Bluenorthwest]

96. Why would he be allowed to run anything under Obama?

Because as Leonardo DaVinci said "He who does not punish evil commands it to occur."
So let's keep looking forward!

[Soylent Brice]

100. can't believe i missed this yesterday.

:kick:

[Historic NY]

101. "Loose Ends"...

lots of people could still talk.

[peacetalksforall]

104. No one is mentioning the word. Treason.

I think it is time wasting to devote all the energy to an assumption that this 'shut down' is all about al Queda.

Possibilities:

Running an ops with Israel to take out what they want to take out of Iran. Iran is an unfinished project for Cheney. He serves/served at the wishes of the barons. Project: incomplete. Seems some Generals didn't approve - for logistical purposes, maybe not moral reasons.

Cover-up of 9-11, if true. This has personal consequences to him and co-horts.

It could be a program to protect the wealthy from boomerang attacks if the food lines get too long and the cardboard doesn't hold up.

It could be an ops to drop prisoners from the secret prisons in the ocean - no one ever talks about the secret prisons. Why be so foolish to bury them in the ground - the pits are always discovered. A precedent for ocean burials was set in Argentina and maybe used in Chile?

It could have something to do about his personal wealth and his alleged side business of dealing in nuclear products and technology.

It could be about bio-chemistry - his partners specialty. How many bio-chemists went to their death in the last eight years? There is still a book needed about personal income related to chemistry, antidotes, wealth, and death. And, there were/(still are?) sick soldiers - recall the report about transfers of dangerous materials by U.S. soldiers right after the invasion of Iraq and the consequent illnesses of the soldiers who did the moving and rumors of some stuff left over from Gulf War 1.

Or it could be something about us - spying or preparations for martial law.

It could be all about this hemisphere - an ops program to take back the leaders of the nations in Central and South American and revive the economic hit-men.

Someone should find out if he already owns escape property in Dubai or has a tunnel between his house and an underground helicopter as well as a tunnel to the CIA - remember it's his favorite trip - visiting the CIA.

Whatever it was started or continued parallel to the Obama Administration. Treason or a misdemeanor?

Why does everyone want to ignore justice? Which is the worst crime? Committing or ignoring.

[Butch350]

106. This group has been around longer than dick...JFK?

[flyarm]

110. bETTER QUESTION..WHY WOULD HE BE "ALLOWED" to run a black opps 6 months out of office? eom

why has it not been shut down??????? Why has Cheney been allowed to do anything with our government once out of office unless some in our government at high levels want him to!

[rodney]

111. LIHOP or MIHOP indeed

I'm starting to believe in MIHOP as the timing was too
convenient for Bush/Cheney. Either way this assassination
squad would be the most effective way to keep people quiet
about 9/11 being a Cheney/CIA operation. I've always thought
the torture program and Gitmo were created for the same
reason. You either physically prevent people from talking or
you make them too fearful to talk. Of course I really don't
know what's going on, but with Cheney, suspicions abound. I
can't believe we are discussing such things being connected
with our country, but God help us get to the bottom of it, and
put a stop to these crimes in our name.

[JackHughes]

112. Cheney's Black Ops

Cheney's secret program had nothing to do with assassinating Al Qaeda leaders. Why the hell would that have to be kept secret from Congress? The Bush administration was supposed to be in the business of killing Al Qaeda leaders. The entire world knew it.

No, whatever "the program too secret to brief Congress about as required by law" was, we can be sure it was highly illegal and blatantly unconstitutional -- probably operations directed against the Republicans' domestic political opponents.

As for the current controversy, how is the news that the CIA (at Bush/Cheney's direction) failed to keep Congress informed any different from the Bush regime's contemptuous refusal to answer Congressional subpoenas and its demonstrable record of perjury when its aparatchiks did testify?

Our corporate news media wakes up in a new world every day like an amnesiac.

[bluesmail]

113. K&R

[Just-plain-Kathy]

115. "Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours"

kick

[NoSheep]

116. MIHOP

[irislake]

117. Gosh! Cheney is so spine-tinglingly evil

that I can hardly wait to get up in the morning to find out what he does next! And has done before we knew it.

But thank god I don't live in the US.


(Shudder! Shudder! Shudder! What a scary, scary man. And he looks so evil too!)

[david_vincent]

120. Mike Connell

Don't forget about the ludicrously convenient death of Mike Connell.

[cascadiance]

122. Another reason? CIA counterfeiting/laundering money to fund black ops...

... off the books of congress.

To summarize, some recent papers like McClatchy and a German paper that started the story claim that the quality of the counterfeit "super dollars" that lead to us getting newer currency were too good to be minted in North Korea as the government officially alleges as the source of these super dollars, and that instead they feel the only operation that could have done this was the CIA out of Virginia and that there was already indications that they'd been helping counterfeit Russian currency in the lead up to the conflict Georgia had with them, which could have been an extension of the same operation.

They got in trouble with Iran/Contra earlier, and rumors were that some counterfeiting might have been happening in Iran then too with the Shah, and that some people like Brent Wilkes, etc. had ties to that scandal as well who are now serving sentences for "secret crimes" of money laundering more recently with ties to Dusty Foggo, who's also doing time as the highest ranking convicted CIA official. Read more of my info on this at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3965281#3965513

Though this is still speculation on my part, you can see that the dots could still connect these together, and that if it is true, that might explain why even if congress knows of the wrong doing that's very extreme in this case, that they might hesitate in releasing it to the public for fear of the effects on the value of our dollar, etc. that might ensue if that were to happen.

Cheney's assassination squad would fit the kind of black ops that would be funded by such an operation that they'd want to keep off of the books subject to congressional oversight. And Cheney might still want access to that "pile of cash" to do other further dirty work. Hopefully this is the program that Obama shut down. And perhaps if they do make it public later, they'll have some time to determine how much money was printed if it was, and how well contained that money is to prevent or lower the potential for a financial meltdown were it to be made public later.

[cascadiance]

123. What about the airmen found dead after that B52 was flying nukes over the U.S...

That had landed in a base where stuff was shipped out to Iraq from... I wonder if they might have been "hit" for containment purposes...

[Beam Me Up]

124. Wait! Anyone remember Bush SMIRKING about this?

So much shit has gone down the last 8 years its hard to keep track of it all.

I vaguely recall Bush in front of the camera smirking about having 'dealt' with certain people. I can't remember exactly when this was but in his first term, I think. Sorry I can't be more specific. Anyone else remember this??

[Beam Me Up]

126. Ah ... just found it.

It is quoted in this current thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x463519

"There is a growing realization among some legislators that the Bush administration, in recent years, has conflated what is an intelligence operation and what is a military one in order to avoid fully informing Congress about what it is doing," he wrote then.

Beyond his own reporting, Hersh said President Bush's own speeches provided evidence of secret assassinations.

"Go read George Bush's January 2003 State of the Union speech," he said. "He's talking and he says we've captured and detained 3,000 Al Qaeda members and other terrorists—crazy numbers—and said some of them will never bother us any more. And Congress cheers."

Bush's full quote then was:

"All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. And many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."

[Cha]

127. We do know this..

Anything is possible with them..nothing is too Worse.

Hope we find out why that fucker and the coroporatemediawhores who sanction him have been undermining the new admin relentlessly on the airwaves.

[Odin2005]

129. Paul Wellstone.

Normie was hand-picked by the neo-cons, 'nuf said.

[frog92969]

131. Will we EVER know what this was about?

Or will it be another "look forward" moment?

Is it possible for a secret government to be representative?

[bobthedrummer]

135. Why????????????????????

[solstice]

137. Whatever Cheney does, Obama will help him cover it up and then refuse to prosecute.