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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:16 AM
Original message
LIBERTE, EGALITE, FRATERNITE!
Happy Bastille Day mes amis.

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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. YAY!!!
:party: :woohoo: :party:

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Aux Les Barricades!!


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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Off with their heads!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. yes, do it fast CHOP CHOP
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 08:41 AM by Mari333
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Hey now, I resemble that remark!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. go nuts! recommended for our French Allies
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Joyeaux jour de Bastille!
Vive la revolution!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Bring out the Guillotine!!! Cut off some corporatist heads.
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 08:44 AM by Odin2005
Oui, Oui!!! :evilgrin:
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. And another reason to celebrate--it's my 42nd wedding anniversary!
Woo-hoo! Time for my annual reminder to sometimes-forgetful spouse--Hey, it's Bastille Day! He knows what I'm sayin'!

Cheers!

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. congratulations! Viva La Marriage!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hear, hear.
It is a great day for France, and a sad day for DU.

But, at least we can celebrate something.



:dem:

-Laelth
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the song of angry men
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again

When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There's a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I hate to be one of "those" nitpicking DUers, but Le Mis isn't about the French Revolution
good song though.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. the French Revolution didn'turn out too well
chaos, followed by state terror, followed by the the first modern dictatorship.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. It was a pretty dark time
in France following the revolution. Robespierre was no saint.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. He was as close as you can get to saintliness in that situation
If anybody was pure of heart it was Robespierre
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. dog save us from the "pure of heart", from the single minded, from those
who have no doubt.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. thank you for stating the truth. I've noticed a number of DU'ers invoking the French Revolution
and guillotine as if it were just a well needed pruning.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. The guillotine might not be too bad, even if we don't take any of the other elements.
;)
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. One revolution wasn't enough for France to get things right.
They have had about seven. Its takes that many before a government considers its people as co-owners of the nation. France's rulers now look over their shoulder's before stiffing its people.

The U.S. government can still thumb its nose at the electorate after elections confident the people will still be cowed. Anti-war sentiment among the people is disregarded right after elections by R's or D's.

The majority of people is still a minority of power in the good ol' USA. The French toss their government if it fails to serve them and they are not called un-French. Talk of tossing your government in the USA and the label un-American is stuck on you.

Jefferson was right about calling for a revolution about every 20 years.

Universal health care or revolution. Viva La Americana!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Revolutions usually don't, but without it, France would never have evolved
to the better state it is.


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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. Careful! Those are some radical ideas you have there in your thread title! (NT)
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. Formez vous battallions!
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 01:02 PM by TheMightyFavog
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. They stormed a building that was practically empty - and got Napoleon in the end. Some victory. n/t.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. Bonne Fête!
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. Proposal for the refoundation of the Committee of Public Safety
How fitting, on Bastille day, to find oneself moved to astonishment and laughter at a particularly puerile BBC docu-drama on Robespierre and the French revolutionary terror. I was actually planning on writing a brief historical post on the topic of the French Revolution, but it will take a while for this drivel to wash out of my system so that I can keep a level head. Simon Schama - The Utterly Preposterous Simon Schama, to give him his full title - is evidently the éminence grise of the programme, the authoritative defender of Anglo-Saxon liberty. He relentlessly vulgarises every single important argument, hammers away with his trivial psychologisms and thoughtless moralising. I find him absolutely detestable. A few other passable writers are allowed to talk, but Schama usually gets a right of reply if they do not agree with him (which they usually do anyway). The only other vaguely authoritative voices are those of the revisionist historian David Andress, and Slavoj Zizek.

Zizek is the only person on the show who makes, or is allowed to make, any effort to explicitly defend the revolution on political grounds. But he is not an historian, just someone who has read and written an introduction to some of Robespierre's writings, and he is obviously there to be lampooned as just the sort of trendy intellectual whose dangerous abstractions could lead to the gulag. Between the talking heads, there is plenty of opportunity for caricature as various old-hand jobbing actors play out the roles of Robespierre, Saint Just, Carnot, Collot, etc. (They actually get 'Spider' from Coronation Street to play Collot, I think). And beyond that, there are scenes from twentieth century revolutions from Russia 1917 to Iran 1979, all of them apparently chilling events, overlaid with this abysmal musical refrain that I think is taken from Hans Zimmer's sountrack to The Thin Red Line. All of which banality is intended to corroborate the bare thesis that the revolution was the result of an excess of idealism that could not but lead to tyranny. The alternative explanations of the Terror - a complex, multi-faceted, and multi-agent response to external and internal threats - are glancingly dealt with. How many more times do we have to be subjected to this mediocre soap plot?

Schama himself is of course one of the primary authors of that narrative, having delivered himself of the verdict some two decades ago that the Revolution was nothing other than tyranny and collective terror: "violence was the Revolution itself". Like Pierre Chaunu, Stephane Courteois and François Furet, he insistently holds the French revolutionaries responsible for the gulag, supposedly anticipated in the 'genocide' in the Vendée (actually, as Arno Mayer has argued, the majority of those killed in the Vendée were effectively soldiers engaged in a military reaction against the Revolution). Like Furet, Popper and Talmon, it is to the excess of Rousseauian idealism and its application that he attributes the Terror, particularly to his idea of a 'General Will'. But the 'General Will', however problematic the idea may be, is hardly the blueprint for 'totalitarianism' that paranoid liberals would have you believe. In essence, it is nothing more than the idea that people should be bound by the collectively agreed laws that they have participated in making, even if they didn't agree with them, and that this is essential to prevent them from being subject to someone else's 'individual will'. Just because it doesn't affirm liberal atomism doesn't make it the basis for the evils of Stalinism, Nazism, the Khmer Rouge, etc. As Enzo Traverso has pointed out, such an ideocratic approach to the revolution both restores counterrevolutionary doctrine to mainstream wisdom in the guise of 'antitotalitarianism', and allows the Right to avoid historical analysis of the circumstances of the revolution.

All of this raises a question. The French Revolution was supposedly a heroic bourgeois revolution: the most complete, the most conscious, the most thoroughgoing attempt to destroy feudalism and create a modern, bourgeois society - or 'an independent centre of capital accumulation', as one might more drily and accurately put it. Yet, the bourgeoisie of today seems to loathe it. They want nothing to do with it. Their reasons for doing so are not really plausible. Oh yes, the Terror, the Terror... I don't see these people denouncing the American Revolution, (in fact, Schama praises it as the most fitting alternative) for all that many of the revolutionaries were authentic genocidaires and slave masters. Or is it only terror if white reactionaries are its subjects? And might we not also say a word or two about the terror of the Directory, practised on behalf of property, beyond the cliched 'irony' that the revolution was eaten by its own children? Or the terror of the counterrevolutionaries who, as Mayer points out, were not slackers in the business of indiscriminate murder and rape? No. I can't help feeling that what they despise, ostentatiously, is democracy. It is above all the very idea of such direct democracy, of the iruption of the masses and the sans-culottes (the real villains of the docu-drama) into the political sphere, that is scandalous.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/07/proposal-for-refoundation-of-committee.html
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Excellent response to naysayers of revolution. nt
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