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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:02 AM
Original message
The freepers of rocket science: 6% of Americans still believe moon shots were faked
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/science/space/14hoax.html?th&emc=th

Vocal Minority Insists It Was All Smoke and Mirrors

By JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: July 13, 2009

...

They examine photos from the missions for signs of studio fakery, and claim to be able to tell that the American flag was waving in what was supposed to be the vacuum of space. They overstate the health risks of traveling through the radiation belts that girdle our planet; they understate the technological prowess of the American space program; and they cry murder behind every death in the program, linking them to an overall conspiracy.

And while there is no credible evidence to support such views, and the sheer unlikelihood of being able to pull off such an immense plot and keep it secret for four decades staggers the imagination, the deniers continue to amass accusations to this day. They are bolstered by films like a documentary shown on Fox television in 2001 and “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon” by Bart Sibrel, a filmmaker in Nashville.


...


Mr. Sibrel, who sells his films online, has hounded Apollo astronauts with a Bible, insisting that they swear on camera they had walked on the Moon. He so annoyed Buzz Aldrin in 2002 — ambushing him with his Bible and calling him “a coward, and a liar, and a thief” — that Mr. Aldrin punched Mr. Sibrel in the face. Law enforcement officials refused to file charges against Mr. Aldrin, the second man on the Moon.

In an interview, Mr. Sibrel said that his efforts to prove that men never walked on the Moon has cost him dearly. “I have suffered only persecution and financial loss,” he said. “I’ve lost visitation with my son. I’ve been expelled from churches. All because I believe the Moon landings are fraudulent.”

Ted Goertzel, a professor of sociology at Rutgers University who has studied conspiracy theorists, said “there’s a similar kind of logic behind all of these groups, I think.” For the most part, he explained, “They don’t undertake to prove that their view is true” so much as to “find flaws in what the other side is saying.” And so, he said, argument is a matter of accumulation instead of persuasion. “They feel if they’ve got more facts than the other side, that proves they’re right.”

Mark Fenster, a professor at the University of Florida Levin College of Law who has written extensively on conspiracy theories, said he sees similarities between people who argue that the Moon landings never happened and those who insist that the 9/11 attacks were planned by the government and that President Obama’s birth certificate is fake: at the core, he said, is a polarization so profound that people end up with an unshakable belief that those in power “simply can’t be trusted.”

The emergence of the Internet as a communications medium, he noted, makes it possible for once-scattered believers to find one another. “It allows the theory to continue to exist, to continue to be available — it’s not just some old dusty books on the half-price shelf.”

Adam Savage, the co-star of the television show “MythBusters,” spent an episode last year taking apart Moon hoax theories bit by bit, entertainingly and convincingly. The theorists, he noted, never give up. “They’ll say you have to keep an open mind,” he said, “but they reject every single piece of evidence that doesn’t adhere to their thesis.”

...
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. 6% isn't bad... double that think that Elvis is still alive
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AllenVanAllen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
222. And what's worse is


only 39% of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution,".
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nonsequitur Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
241. LMFAO!
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
259. Get with the program! Elvis died in 2006! Michael Jackson, OTOH,
is still alive!!!!
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. LIHOP? MIHOP? We need to know!
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Tan Gent Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. There are at least that many nutballs who think the WTC was blown down with explosives.
God love the screwballs, they're good for a laugh.
:rofl:
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
146. More like 16%
"A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

People will believe anything. Bigfoot, Creationism--anything.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
157. I am one of those "nutballs"
Maybe you should do more investigating yourself if your so sure steel and concrete can be taken down by fire. Why should we believe the Bush assministration over 9/11? They lied about the war. If you believe they can ID DNA but not ID a plane then I guess that's your belief. :rofl:
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #157
194. The thing is, I don't believe the administration. I believe the facts.
"Maybe you should do more investigating yourself if your so sure steel and concrete can be taken down by fire."


That right there is an incredibly unscientific view at physics. It leads me to believe that you are just another person you cannot wrap their mind around physics at work.

"Man that building is sooooo big!!! There's no way a little fire could bring it down!!!"

That is your stance. Care you elaborate?
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
218. You're stil a believer in Orson Well's 'War of the Worlds' aren't you? I can pick 'em!!! n/t
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #218
246. How rude to deny the efforts of the thousands of people who worked to get
How rude to deny the efforts of the thousands of people who worked to get the Apollo astronauts to the moon.

Just plain rude and, as my mother used to say, ignorant.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
300. You choose to believe the Bush Crime Family's explanation. I don't
But then, I'm not paid to parrot their talking points on a Democratic website.
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wish it were only 6% that believed in theocracy, or Rep economic policies
:dem:
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. And yet those very same people are convinced
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 10:14 AM by MindPilot
the great flood and the resurrection DID happen. How can one person have that much cognitive dissonance going on in their head without an explosion?

Adam & Jamie did an excellent job of ripping the deniers' "evidence" apart bit by bit.

And Buzz Aldrin decking that twit remains one of the great moments in NASA history.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
54. Adam and Jamie! I'm convinced!!! n/t
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Doesn't like 30% of Americans think they are in the top 1% of income earners?
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. Have we left Iraq
or Afghanistan yet?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. Bet there are DU'ers who believe the same thing...nt
Sid
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. These particular dingbats are widely-distributed politically
I know a roughly even mix of liberals, conservatives and apoliticals stupid enough to believe the landings were faked.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
69. They simply did a little research. Belief on the other hand is bliss! n/t
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
186. Why do you think the moon landing was faked?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #186
187. I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere in the DSM-IV... (nt)
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #187
207. No shit! LOL.
Oh wait, I meant to say shhhhhhhh. You'll scare it.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. My favorite youtube video
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. That warms the cockles of my heart. (nt)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. It would have been awesome if they guy had beaten Aldrin to a pulp in self defense after that.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Why? He had it coming. (nt)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. No, the other guy had it coming. Fucking glorified test-pilot douchebag.
Edited on Wed Jul-15-09 09:32 PM by JVS
I bet Yuri Gagarin could whip Aldrin's ass.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Wow, could there be two people stupid enough to be Apollo deniers in this thread? (nt)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I'm not an Apollo denier, but when Aldrin hit the guy, he should have reacted like Pesci does here..
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. It's interesting that you cannot seem to offer better evidence for Apollo than springing instantly..
Edited on Wed Jul-15-09 09:38 PM by JVS
for the personal attack, but that's really more of a sad reflection on you than the Apollo program, so it can't be used as evidence against the program.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #48
88. At least the 'program' gave us some great pictures (real or not)! n/t
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #48
102. Who needs to offer evidence FOR the moon landings?
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 09:58 AM by chrisa
When the outrageous claim is that it never happened, for which I've never seen evidence for?
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
127. Speaking of reflections, corner reflectors on the moon
Sufficient proof of the landing.

For me, having worked on the Apollo Program and NASA gave me all the proof I need. I saw the numbers. They work.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #44
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #44
114. Keep at the insults . . .. it should convince those who are quesitoning moon landing -- !!!
Unfortunately, the right-wing conspiracies are being questioned -- all of them.

Obviously, JFK was at concerned about what Werner Von Braun -- former NAZI -- was

doing at NASA. Back then he wanted to use nuclear fuel, for one --

JFK was adamantly against it.

And, who the hell are we to question NASA or Nazis?

It seems they have another shuttle problem now -- how many down already?



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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #114
231. Nazis innn SPAAAAACEEE
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #231
262. Ah, you're right ... Mel Brooks headed NASA -- not Werner Von Braun . ..!!!
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #43
79. WTF, you can't be serious? -nt-
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #79
96. Why not? Childhood hero of millions assaults man and ends up getting his ass whooped.
That would have been hilarious. How can you find delight in him assaulting a man?
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #96
111. Sibrel lured him to a Beverly Hills hotel under a false pretext...
and when Aldrin got there, presented him with a bible and demanded that he swear he had walked on the moon. When Aldrin refused, Sibrel called him a coward, a liar, and a thief. It wasn't the first time Aldrin had been confronted publicly by Sibrel.

I'd have dotted him too. In fact, I don't think I'd have stopped until someone pulled me off. And drop your bullshit lie about assault. When Sibrel tried to sue, it was decided that Aldrin had been provoked. So, no assault happened, and no charges were ever filed.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #111
115. This kind of aggression on either side doesn't lead to truth . . .however,
what we've seen of the lack of interest and boring details of their trip to the moon

suggests that the truth is a burden for some of them.

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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
92. Doubtful, since Gagarin is dead. n/t
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #43
233. I'm with you on Aldrin
I went to the University of North Dakota which flip-flops between the #1 and #2 flight school in the country (I was not an aerospace major). Aldrin was on staff there for a couple years teaching some dumb thing. He is such a prick. Wanted to throat punch him just for the look on his face when he was walking around.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #233
238. I guess we should provoke him to throw a punch and then deliver a beat-down
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #233
268. This one of the strangest things...
I have ever hear someone say.

Honestly who says "Damn astronaut, walked on the moon and thinks hes done something cool"

Feels like im on candid camera.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
278. lol...
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
72. I wish ol Buzz would have hit him harder.
It might've knocked some of the stupid out of that douche.

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
107. Would never happen. Conspiracy nutters are always major pussies.
He ran home and asked his Mommy to squirt Bactene on his boo boo after that.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
78. Fuck yeah! Here's another angle
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
136. HA!...That was Staged and Photoshopped
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
140. Wow, Buzz has a nice right cross
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nonsequitur Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
242. i've never seen that before. damn that was good. pow!
crazy conspiracy people
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Makes sense since 6% of all US scientists are republicans (that's true).
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Not just them; there's a denier in this very thread. (nt)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
71. Is someone who thinks out of the main stream a denier to be dismissed? n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #71
100. With respect to this topic? Yes...nt
Sid
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #100
149. Unswerving belief in the Apollo 'moon landings' is like a religion! n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #149
251. Actually, a good comparison . . . "god" spoke and they believed it --
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
68. Self delete.
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 12:36 AM by ControlledDemolition
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. The only thing I would say
regarding this kind of thing is that the "they could never keep it a secret" line to debunk these things doesn't do much for me. History has shown that lots of things have remained a secret for a long time. The facts seem to hold up well enough on their own to debunk this most enjoyable of conspiracy theories without resorting to that.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. That and the strange question of why the Soviets would stay quiet on such a thing (nt)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
117. The propaganda was heavy - and Americans wouldn't have believed anything the
Russians said about it --

but the Russians were watching what was going on around 9/11 very carefully --
and for months and months they were knocking on Bush's door and the doors of all
of our intelligence agencies not only with information on coming terrorist attacks
but with lists of names of hijackers.

Because the Bush White House was conducting such a strong "Operation Ignore" the
Russians finally went to the United Nations Security Council with their info.

In August, just before 9/11, the United Nations Security Council sent their
representatives to war the White House and our intelligence agencies of the Russian
intelligence.

Right after 9/11, the Russians of course called 9/11 . . . "the Reichstag fire in NYC!"

They're right --


For another example, look at the rage at France -- remember the Congress ending "French Fries"???
Americans can, unfortunately, be led by and fooled by right-wing propaganda.
It still works!
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
145. Because every Soviet premier after Khrushchev was a CIA operated android.
Duh.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #145
252. Interesting time . . . the sidelining of Krushchev . . .
Pope John XXIII "demise" and JFK assassination --

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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
73. Please elaborate on what you believe to be 'the facts'. I think I started out with the same set
of them. I honestly wish that what I watched in relatively real time was actually what happened. Perhaps I should just go along to get along?
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #73
190. I am really not qualified to enter the debate
I have only a cursory interest in the issue and a very limited knowledge of the facts and the various theories. I should have more accurately referred to my impression of the facts. My only point was that claiming no one could keep a secret is not convincing to me on any issue.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #190
204. I agree. Many secrets have been buried essentially for all time. n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
147. The Soviets could have negotiated something in return for their silence. n/t
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. Probably the same folks who think Barack hasn't shown a valid Birth Certificate yet
Dumbasses
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
74. Just because I don't agree with you on one thing doesn't mean we disgree...
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 12:53 AM by ControlledDemolition
... on everything. True or False? I don't consider myself to be a 'dumbass'.

(Edit: Fix typo.) I am a dumbass for the typo though!
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-14-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. 94% of you are gullible fools!
Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 10:33 AM by KG

































:hide:
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
286. Churchill played a role in faking the Lusitania sinking on film. Let's not forget...
... that in the early 1900's the technology to hoax something was not as sophisticated as it was after over 50 years of filmaking. n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. How did the Appollo capsule get through the Van Allen Radiation Belt?
Without sufficient sheilding (the equivalent of some nine feet of lead) the astronauts would have been micro-waved to a crisp.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. For starters, this is false... (nt)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Are yoy saying the Van Allen Belt doesn't exist? n/t
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm saying Earth's isn't an instant-death field. Jupiter's, yes, but not Earth's. (nt)
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
61. No
But it's clear you have no idea what the fuck microwaves are. :3
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #61
280. Everyone knows that...
they're the things we use to heat up our delicious hot pockets so that they can burn the top of our mouths.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well it is like the no plane people of 9/11, there is no moon anway
It is just projected there by the media. Soon, terrorists - also cgi created - will hijack a space shuttle into it and blow it up, allowing us to attack Nigeria over their many scams.

It's all so simple really, but no one but the voices in my head listen.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Where is the proof that a wide bodied jet hit the Pentagon? n/t
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
101. you really shouldn't wander out of the dungeon
:rofl:
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #101
148. It is hard to argue against such robust argument! n/t
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nonsequitur Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
243. the proof is probably all of the peeps that saw it with their own eyes
come on, get real
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
256. Where is your proof that the sun rose in the east and set in the west?
It's an equally ridiculous request, BTW, it's just that you lack the reason to realize it.
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Zort Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. They passed through in a rather quick period of time.
Not enough for significant harm from radiation. Here's a more in depth explanation: http://www.wwheaton.com/waw/mad/mad19.html
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Without sheilding? What about cosmic rays 'whilst they were on the Moon'? n/t
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Zort Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. I refer you to the post by MicaelS, as well as:
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/lunarshield_techwed_050112.html

Despite the apparent ease of past lunar exploration radiation-wise, such as NASA's successful Apollo moon landings, without adequate shielding long-term occupation of the moon and space exploration may remain out of reach, researchers said.

"A lot of people think about the Apollo astronauts, and that they didn't have much protection and were fine," Lane told SPACE.com. "But in Apollo, it was a very short mission and a lot of it was basically luck."


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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
87. "... and a lot of it was basically luck"! I rest my case. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #87
253. Love the summation . . .
sorry you've been out here alone -- good job by the way!

I was busy with "firefighters" . . .

if you disagree with Sotomayor and Ginsburg on that, please don't post . . .

I'm worn out!

:)
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. That is conspiracy rhetoric
Moon Base Clavius, a great debunking website: http://www.clavius.org/envrad.html

The "six feet of lead" statistic appears in many conspiracist charges, but no one has yet owned up to being the definitive source of that figure. In fact, six feet (2 m) of lead would probably shield against a very large atomic explosion, far in excess of the normal radiation encountered in space or in the Van Allen belts.

While such drastic measures are needed to shield against intense, high-frequency electromagnetic radiation, that is not the nature of the radiation in the Van Allen belts. In fact, because the Van Allen belts are composed of high-energy protons and high-energy electrons, metal shielding is actually counterproductive because of the Bremsstrahlung that would be induced.

Metals can be used to shield against particle radiation, but they are not the ideal substance. Polyethylene is the choice of particle shielding today, and various substances were available to the Apollo engineers to absorb Van Allen radiation. The fibrous insulation between the inner and outer hulls of the command module was likely the most effective form of radiation shielding. When metals must be used in spacecraft (e.g., for structural strength) then a lighter metal such as aluminum is better than heavier metals such as steel or lead. The lower the atomic number, the less Bremsstrahlung.

The notion that only vast amounts of a very heavy metal could shield against Van Allen belt radiation is a good indicator of how poorly though out the conspiracist radiation case is. What the conspiracists say is the only way of shielding against the Van Allen belt radiation turns out to be the worst way to attempt to do it!
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I said the equivalent of nine feet of lead. What specifically was used? n/t
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Polyethylene
Polyethylene is the choice of particle shielding today, and various substances were available to the Apollo engineers to absorb Van Allen radiation. The fibrous insulation between the inner and outer hulls of the command module was likely the most effective form of radiation shielding.

The principle danger of the Van Allen belts is high-energy protons, which are not that difficult to shield against. And the Apollo navigators plotted a course through the thinnest parts of the belts and arranged for the spacecraft to pass through them quickly, limiting the exposure.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
60. Equally effective as glad wrap against gamma rays! n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
254. Right . . . and the film needed no protection at all--!!!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. And you basis for this assertion is...?
Edited on Wed Jul-15-09 07:00 PM by anigbrowl
9 feet of lead!? Where do you get this nonsense? If you wanted to camp out year round in the van Allen belt, then sure, you'd need a lot of protection. Speeding through it is a totally different matter. But even then I'm not convinced you'd need '9 feet of lead' or (edit) the equivalent thereof.

Look, you probably have a stove and/or a microwave in your kitchen. Now you wouldn't be able to tolerate being exposed to the heat inside the stove oven or the microwave energy inside your microwave for very long, that's why they have thermal and EM shielding. But you can actually spend the entire day cooking in the kitchen without worrying about the fact, because it doesn't need that much shielding to protect you from heat/microwave energy that would normally burn you very quickly.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Why did they try to clear the field with nukes?
These attempts only made things worse.
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Clear the field with nukes?
Nothing like that was done in any way shape fashion or form. You are confused. Starfish Prime was a high altitude nuclear test. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

Starfish Prime was a high-altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States of America on July 9, 1962, a joint effort of the Defense Atomic Support Agency (DASA) and the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC)The Starfish test was one of five high altitude tests grouped together as "Operation Fishbowl" within the larger Operation Dominic, a series of tests in 1962 begun in response to the Soviet announcement on August 30, 1961 that they were ending a three year moratorium on testing.

While some of the energetic beta particles followed the earth's magnetic field and illuminated the sky, other high-energy electrons became trapped and formed radiation belts around the earth. There was much uncertainty and debate about the composition, magnitude and potential adverse effects from this trapped radiation after the detonation. The weaponeers became quite worried when three satellites in low earth orbit were disabled. These man-made radiation belts eventually crippled one-third of all satellites in low orbit. Seven satellites were destroyed as radiation knocked out their solar arrays or electronics, including the first commercial relay communication satellite ever, Telstar. Detectors on Telstar, TRAAC, Injun, and Ariel 1 were used to measure distribution of the radiation produced by the tests.


List of artificial radiation belts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_radiation_belts

All these artificial belts were CREATED as results of high altitude tests. There was never any intent to destroy the Van Allen belts.

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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I respectfully beg to differ...
"As they had already discovered the disabling effects of intense radiation on space probes and equipment, we suggest that Operation Argus and Starfish Prime were attempts to force an entryway through the natural Van Allen radiation belts in order to be able to enter and exit the planet with a minimum of disruption to their rocket riders and their electronics. The timimg of these experiments makes this hypothesis very likely and is no less stupid than the manner in which these people ignored the advice of their own scientists, and of foreigners such as Sir Bernard Lovell.("Dark Moon", M. Bennet & D. Percy, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999.)

NASA has well earned its stripes as the agency which Never Gives a Straight Answer. Given that it was infiltrated by Nazis brought into the USA under Operation Paperclip after WWII, I doubt that their natural inclination is to come clean with the American public on much of anything. Do not forget that NASA at its inception was a military organisation presenting a civilian face to the outside world during 'The Cold War'.

I used to fully believe that Neil Armstrong was the first man on the Moon. (To me, Larry Hagman is just as likely to have walked on the Moon as Armstrong.) Now I'm still kicking myself for having fallen for this elaborate hoax.
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You just lost all credibility
The fact you would quote from that book is prove positive you fall into that 6% of people who are kooks. I figured you were pulling shit off one of those conspiracy websites. This just confirms it.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Makes you weep for the state of basic thought these days, doesn't it? (nt)
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. Yes it does...
What makes it so sad is so many progressives claim to be part of the "reality based community".
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
76. "So called progressives"? What do you mean by that? n/t
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #76
112. Read for accuracy.
What makes it so sad is so many progressives claim to be part of the "reality based community".

No one said "so-called progressives"
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. Basic thought is a lot more difficult to accomplish through years of propaganda exposure! n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. It seems you choose to believe, I prefer to know! n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #40
82. What about 'that book' do you specifically disagree with?
Which book should I read?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
265. Because you know the government wouldn't lie to you . . .!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
266. Well, certainly you should fear books . .. they probably bite -- !!
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
63. THE PROGRAM STARTED OUT IN EARNEST, THEN IT WAS GRADUALLY REALIZED TO BE A NEAR IMPOSSIBILTY.
The combined guidance computer memory totaled 152kb. NASA claims to have traveled 60,000% as far as any other manned spacecraft has gone before or since on basically a household calculator with the help of slide rules.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. ... and let's hope it was more stable than Windows - without too many gamma rays - is today! n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #63
267. Right . . . almost 25 years later, Americans had the same computers . . .
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
264. Makes sense . . . plus space isn't really human friendly...we're earth-bound . .
seemingly --
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Got no answer for my questions, eh? Thought not.
Trolling or tripping, you folk are soooo predictable.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
255. You are talking with someone I see as "ignore" . . . however. .
In the 1960's they did explode nuclear bombs in outer space . . .

some think it was to try to knock out the Van Allen belts -- !!!!!

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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. "Cosmic particles are dangerous, come from all sides, and require...
... at least two meters of solid shielding around all living organisms." (Prospects For Interstellar Travel, John A. Maudling, 1992.)This quote's relevance is not limited to just travelling though the Van Allen Belts. I'm still looking for the nine foot Van Allen specific reference. Stay tuned.

Also, I would not place too much faith in the safey of micro-wave ovens, or mobile phones for that matter. Don't forget that the tobacco industry paid out a lot of money for favorable research over the last fifty years or so. And as for flouridating our water supply...

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I do not believe you are serious
I also find it hard to believe you are so foolish as to equate the (literally) astronomical distances and times required ofr interstellar travel with the few days involved in a journey to the moon and back.

I agree that flouridating the water supply is a bad thing. People like you should spend more time in dentist's chairs and concentrate on brushing your teeth instead of trafficking in such nonsense as your post above.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I'm so sorry to have offended you. Please advise me on what I can and can't think! n/t
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #53
77. The Modern Prometheus
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. Are you talkin' 'Reichstag Fire', 'Bay of Tonkin', '911' or what? n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. No, it must be 'Operation Northwoods'. n/t
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
99. There is no such author as "John A. Maudling"
You have just read that on a website, and assumed someone was giving you a quote in the right context. You have never read, or even seen, a book by "John A. Maudling".
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #99
103. That's not surprising,
Since CT sites use mostly made up quotes, or misquotes for 95% of their "evidence."
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #99
105. No, but he's probably read Dark Moon, which incorrectly cites 'John A. Maudling'
Cut and paste into a Google search and click on the first link:

Maudling interstellar Cosmic particles are dangerous, come from all sides, and require
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #50
240. Correction, John H. Mauldin...
"Cosmic particles are dangerous, come from all sides, and require at least 2
meters of solid shielding around all living organisms, as per John H.
Mauldin, who has a Masters in physics and a Ph.D. in science education.
Furthermore, Mauldin states that the solar flares can give doses of hundreds
of thousands of REM over a few hours at the distance from Earth. Such
doses are fatal and millions of times greater than the permitted dose. DEATH
IS LIKELY AFTER 500 REMS IN ANY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME."


Another interesting matter to consider follows...

"So 12 astronauts while on the Moon's surface took a TOTAL of 5771 exposures.

That seemed excessively large to me, considering that their TIME on the lunar surface was limited, and the astronauts had MANY OTHER TASKS OTHER THAN PHOTOGRAPHY. So I returned to the Lunar Surface Journal to find how much TIME was available to do all the scientific tasks AS WELL AS PHOTOGRAPHY. Unlike the number of photos, this information is readily available:

Apollo 11........1 EVA .....2 hours, 31 minutes......(151 minutes)
Apollo 12........2 EVAs.....7 hours, 50 minutes......(470 minutes)
Apollo 14........2 EVAs.....9 hours, 25 minutes......(565 minutes)
Apollo 15........3 EVAs...18 hours, 30 minutes....(1110 minutes)
Apollo 16........3 EVAs...20 hours, 14 minutes....(1214 minutes)
Apollo 17........3 EVAs...22 hours, 04 minutes....(1324 minutes)

Total minutes on the Moon amounted to 4834 minutes.
Total number of photographs taken was 5771 photos.

Hmmmmm. That amounts to 1.19 photos taken EVERY MINUTE of time on the Moon, REGARDLESS OF OTHER ACTIVITIES. (That requires the taking of ONE PHOTO EVERY 50 SECONDS!"

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
257. And we've been developing microwave mainly as WEAPONS--!!!
Btw, not so long ago there were articles on the fact that they've discovered the

Van Allen Belts are even more extensive and I think they used the term "muscular"...????

than they had previously understood!!

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Quickly.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. They set it on FIRE!
And then they nuked it to put it out. I think it was a submarine that did it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
118. Evidently DU has a long way to go yet before they get to
understanding this particular conspiracy!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
153. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #153
156. More than 6% of the world population used to think that the earth was flat! n/t
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. marked for later n/t
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tj2001 Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. The Dept of Law needs to rule with the Dept of Intelligence against the Dept of NASA (all three)
to correct this fakery. This is outrageous
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
86. Let the truth set us all free! n/t
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
39. No more astounding than the 27% who thought Bush was great
That's the one that amazes me.

Six percent isn't bad. You could probably find that many people who didn't even know we'd been there.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. You're a statistician, how many now believe in 'hijackers with box-cutters'? n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #55
119. Or the Mark Bingham phone call -- ?
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #119
150. That's right! "Hi Mom, it's your son, Mark Bingham. You believe me don't you!"
You have a good memory. That little gem had well and truly receded from my mind.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #150
247. Hard to forget . . .
but I've also just seen a video where a Congressman, as I recall it, makes clear

that there was NO phone call from Barbara Olsen!!! Think of that --

He says that there were two attemps at a call -- no connection was made!!!

This is as I recall it -- but the video is around somewhere --

And, basically, all of the calls were fake, of course!

:)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
47. BTW, did we ever put that green cheese nonsense fully to bed
or do some Americans still believe that one too? I always wondered about that.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Maybe not. The planners of 'Operation Northwoods' though dug blue cheese and a little red wine. n/t
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. Dodo birds of a feather-
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-15-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Neo-conservatives certainly flock together but are a little more dangerous than Dodos ever were. n/t
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
62. You just know they keep rewatching "Capricorn One". n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Why watch a Stanley Kubric wannabe motion picture? n/t
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. For the subject matter. n/t
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. So you're not a fan of Stanley? n/t
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
89. Not that - I meant the conspiracy theorists must've
loved a movie that supported their beliefs.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077294/
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #89
184. I liked Capricorn One even when I fully bought the whole Apollo mythology. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #62
120. Who would believe "Capricorn One" . . . when we know that
there are no conspiracies in America -- !!!

And besides that, though our CIA was founded by NAZIS with some going into

NASA and headed by ex-NAZI Werner Von Braun . . . certainly Nixon would have

kept them all honest--!!!

:evilgrin:
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #120
151. 'The Rise of the Fourth Reich' by Jim Marrs covers this quite well. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #151
248. Yes, I know . . .!!!
I've been mentioning it here and trying though I have finally finished it
want to make some notes on it --

Have you read "The Beast Reawakens" by Martin Lee -- or vice versa!
probably in your library

Still working on that one!

:)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
192. A perspective from the producer of Capricorn One...
Paul Lazarus (producer, Capricorn One): "I believe had they wanted to that NASA could indeed have pulled off the greatest hoax of all time, never sent any one to the moon, and we created in the television studio and I believe it could have been done in that time, technology was in place. What we put up in screen was our own simulated version, whatever we could do within a four million aid budget."
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
64. gullible
94% of y'all believe the moon landing was real, and about the same amount believe in religion.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
80. Wow, moon landing deniers on DU?
You learn something new every day!
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #80
97. Makes you wonder how many flat earthers we have, doesn't it?
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #80
98.  damn my ex-mother-in-law finally learned how to...
navigate the series of tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs

the proof is right here on DU.

Since she is the only person I have met that denies the moon landing. What are the odds (being there are only 6%) I would encounter someone else with that view.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #98
121. Just tell her . . .
there are no right wing conspiracies in America -- !!

Including election 2000 --

um . . . and 2004 . . .

and . . . wiretapping --

maybe include JFK assassination --

and . . . ever heard of Operation Northwoods?

NAZIS were used to found our CIA --

and also fed into FBI and NASA --

Oops . . . she may remember Werner Von Braun --

Well, anyway, keep reminding her this is "Conspiracy-free America" -- !!!

That might work . . .

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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
81. Now that the preliminaries are over... let's rumble ON THE FACTS! n/t
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #81
104. You mean like how
We landed on the moon, and there's an American flag there? In the case of moon CTers, I think you mean let's roll on with the half-truths and people being quoted out of context to build a fictitious conspiracy theory.

Watch the episode of Myth Busters where they dispelled some of the moon conspiracy theories. It's still more academic than the know-it-alls and the bunk they spew on their single-paged, often fly-by-night websites.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #104
122. What's really interesting is the film -- evidently released accidently --
of two astronauts supposedly in outer space where the sky would be black --

trying to set up a picture of the moon which is seen thru the porthole surrounded by blue sky --

and trying to manipulate some black material into place to cover the blue sky!

As time goes by, more and more people wake up to what has really been going on in America.



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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #122
135. LOL!
Too, too funny.

:rofl:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #135
138. Yeah . . . remember when you didn't think you'd laugh at WMD/Mushroom clouds???
:rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

but presume you've woken up from those lies . . . ?
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. I'm not laughing WITH you - I'm laughing AT you. And it's the gift that keeps on giving.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

See? I can spam the smilies too, just like the kindergartner mentality that replied to me. Now, how about you go play in your dungeon with all the others who believe that the government has a secret zapper ray that causes tsunamis?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #142
175. Evidently, you don't get ...
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 09:02 PM by defendandprotect
I'm laughing at you --

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: --:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


When you get finished with the childish game-playing, why don't you tell us
if you still believe in WMD -- and the other right wing lies about 9/11 -- ???

Maybe you missed Watergate . . . Nixon wouldn't lie to the country, of course -- ???




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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #175
176. More non-responsiveness. And phony non-responsiveness at that. n/t.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #176
212. If that makes sense to you . . .
excuse me because I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt of at least sanity!!

bye --
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #212
217. Seriuosly, my last post was sent before I read this one. Syncronicity at work!!! n/t
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #212
234. Your concession that you do not know what you're talking about is gracefully accepted. n/t.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #176
216. Typical projection! With 'single-payer' you might be able to see some one about it! n/t
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #216
235. Your ongoing use of the term "projection" in situations in which it does not apply in the least
bespeaks of a shallowness of intellect that I would expect from someone who pretends to believe that the Moon landings were "faked."

But keep typing - we'll keep laughing.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #216
236. And by-the-bye: why won't you address your proven falsehood as shown in post #99 in this thread?
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 11:23 AM by apocalypsehow
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #135
152. What is funny is that you have obviously fallen for every big lie perpetrated on the public. n/t
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #152
163. I think it started when they put fluoride in my ice cream cone...
:eyes:
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Zort Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. Whoops.
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 09:28 PM by Zort
That made no sense. Nothing to see here.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #152
269. Notice that there is absolutely no curiosity about the subject . . .
I mention a video where the astronauts are setting up a fraudulent picture --

and they go into their attack routine . . .

And these are the people who believe the Moon Landing --!!

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #122
258. That's a film I'd really, really like to see. Where can I find it pray tell?
Surely you can lead me to it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #258
270. Yes . . .
the video itself is featured in "A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To the Moon" --

seems NASA was disposing of it and it was picked up.

Been a while since I've seen it- but it's two well known astronauts trying to figure

out how to fake a photo of the moon to suggest that they are in far outer space

supposedly nearing the moon, rather than in near outer space.

Look it up -- it may also be somewhere on the internet by now.

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #270
291. I found Sibrel's "official" website through Wikipedia.
Wow. What an incredible amount of money the whole hoax thing is worth. And he takes Visa, Mastercard, AmEx, AND Discover cards!

Goods on sale from $19.95 to $134.95. And the shopping cart/checkout process is SEAMLESS!

Damn... I wish I would have thought of something like this. I bet he makes more than the guy who came up with the "Pet Rock" gimmick!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #291
294. Whose's "Sibrel" . . .??? Meanwhile ....
I suppose our Pentagon, MIC and Star Wars come cheaply?

Where did the money for the Moon Landing actually go?



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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #294
295. Uh, he's only the guy who wrote, directed, and produced the movie you referenced...
"A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon".

I figured you'd know who he was, since you think his movie is worth mentioning...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #295
296. In fact I have the movie in my bookcase . . . and I haven't looked at it in years -- !!!
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 05:44 PM by defendandprotect
Thanks --

So, he has the nerve -- UNLIKE ANYONE ELSE ON THE INTERNET . . . DU FOR EXAMPLE --

to offer merchanise he sells for money???

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #296
297. He sells his HOAX for money.
If you want to know how badly the American people and the rest of the world were played, it'll cost ya.

Fucks with his credibility, if you ask me.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #297
298. Unfortunately, much of our country has been based on HOAX . . .
What did you think of the recent NEDA Soltan death/video?

:think:
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #298
299. I thought pretty much the same thing you did: That any human being has to lose their life to prove
a point is worthless at best.

And you thought?
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #81
132. The very first sign to me of an asshat on DU is always the diabled profile. Note I said FIRST. n/t.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #132
167. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #167
181. Ah, ain't that sweet? And he knows French, too!
:rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
85. What's so hilarious to me is that forever, "the freepers of" anything
will be shorthand for the stupidest bag of rocks anyone can possibly imagine.

:rofl:
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mp9200 Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
90. Well..
I heard 33% of New Yorkers believe 9/11 was an inside job.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #90
123. It's way more than that -- It's near 50% . . . NYC and New York State near 50% . . .
And they are working now to get a new investigation of 9/11 --
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
91. People were saying that
when it was broadcast back in the day. It's not much different than Flat Earth Society or MIHOP 9/11.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #91
124. People who believe what they see on TV . . .
and in fact, I'll include people who still watch TV at all --

seem more likely to trust what the TV tells them.

They seem the least likely to not see any difference between demolition and 9/11 demolition!!

But near 50% of New York State and NYC must be wrong on 9/11...!!??

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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
93. Only 6%?
Wow! That's a good result. I thought it'd be higher
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
94. Not just freepers
I worked with a woman who could be described as fairly liberal, and she was convinced that that was just a movie set (the moon landing). I thought she was joking, at first, but, um, no, she wasn't.

:tinfoilhat:

She was approaching it from the angle that the government was always in on conspiracies against the proletariat, and she taught her kids the same crazy shit she believed.

The kicker? She was a librarian. Fully degreed and everything.

I was like, whoa.

So, paranoia and stupidity are spread pretty much around the human population.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #94
109. I've worked with a few really nutjob MLSs, I'm afraid, including one who thought
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 10:33 AM by blondeatlast
censorship was AOK. I had to do time on a reference desk with her far too much. I always hoped it would be really busy when I did.

Head, meet brick wall.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #109
137. Hi!
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 04:41 PM by XanaDUer
:hi:

I have two words re nut-job MLSers ~ Diana Dial. :evilgrin:
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #94
130. Hell, just look around this thread
It's collecting denialist idiocy like vaccination threads draw their own brands of kooks.

I'm definitely keeping this thread around for when I see people around here claim that the Republicans have a monopoly on ignoring reality.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
95. Once some people get an idea in their heads, there's no shifting it.
Just like there will still be people talking about Obama's damn birth certificate in 2050.
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PAMod Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
106. This quote says it all...
“there’s a similar kind of logic behind all of these groups, I think.” For the most part, he explained, “They don’t undertake to prove that their view is true” so much as to “find flaws in what the other side is saying.” And so, he said, argument is a matter of accumulation instead of persuasion. “They feel if they’ve got more facts than the other side, that proves they’re right.”

Also this:

“They’ll say you have to keep an open mind,” he said, “but they reject every single piece of evidence that doesn’t adhere to their thesis.”

Birthers, "magic bullets", MIHOPs, living dead celebrities, flat earthers, and moon-shot doubters - all of a similar vein, but spread throughout the entire political spectrum I'm afraid - as well as all levels of education and accomplishment.

Each is entitled to their opinion, of course, and all are free to devote their energies any way they choose; but all in all - I find it to be tiresome & even somewhat sad - sad because it detracts (IMHO) from any real work that needs to be done.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #106
110. It's how the RW media parrots work as well. What's scary is that it works. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #106
125. From what you are saying . . .
Edited on Thu Jul-16-09 12:07 PM by defendandprotect
I take it you believe in the "Magic Bullet" . . . ????

And that JFK was killed by a "lone nut" . . . ????

Wow . . . !!!



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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
108. People believe all manner of dumb ass things
"No Planes", "Birthers", "No Moon Landings", the list goes on and on, all spouted with an almost religious fervor and with just as little proof and just as much denial of facts.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
113. This is "Conspiracy-free-America" of course . . . however ....
I agree that the moon landings were likely faked.

And, it seems that those who are having trouble acknowledging demolition

of WTC are those who also can see reality of the moon fake.

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E-Z-B Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
116. It's a lot cheaper and easier to fake a landing.
Plus, you easily pwn the russians.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #116
126. Agree . . . and then you have a lot of money left over for other dirty tricks . . .
like using drug money to finance the GOP's Nicaragua --


Oh -- that probably didn't happen either given the mindset here --
and the aggressiveness behind their beliefs is, IMO, a concern in itself.
That kind of self-assurance and righteousness doesn't lead suggest open minds.




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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #126
223. It's admirable to question the information you receive from the government
especially in light of the amount of lies and deceptions they've been caught in, from the U2 incident (in my lifespan) onward. There's no question that Nixon, Reagan-Bush and Cheney led conspiracies to squash political opponents and use the national security apparatus to enhance their own power. It's foolish to give any of those assholes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their ability to put country (let alone world) before self.

But it's also foolish to assume these puny jerks had the god-like powers conspiracy theorists attribute to them. The power to use bombs in Cambodia and Laos and stalling tactics or back-stabbing of allies in Paris to try to win themselves elections at home? No doubt. The power to trick independent astrophysicists into believing a staged moon-landing was real? Absolutely not.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #223
250. Completely agree with you . . .
on your first paragraph ...

It's admirable to question the information you receive from the government
especially in light of the amount of lies and deceptions they've been caught in, from the U2 incident (in my lifespan) onward. There's no question that Nixon, Reagan-Bush and Cheney led conspiracies to squash political opponents and use the national security apparatus to enhance their own power. It's foolish to give any of those assholes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their ability to put country (let alone world) before self.


However . . .

But it's also foolish to assume these puny jerks had the god-like powers conspiracy theorists attribute to them. The power to use bombs in Cambodia and Laos and stalling tactics or back-stabbing of allies in Paris to try to win themselves elections at home? No doubt. The power to trick independent astrophysicists into believing a staged moon-landing was real? Absolutely not.

Unfortunately, they don't need "god-like powers" to destroy -- they're quite good at it!

I do hope that we will at some point get a thread going on the Moon Landing questions.
Maybe late next month. I know there are some people here with a good deal of info on
the challenges to the claims. And I think it would be good to get these questions out
into the open. The problem is they would probably be doing it for a thread that would
quickly be bounced into the dungeon -- therefore, they might consider it not worth their
time? But I do think there is a need for it.

Presumably there was a lot of hidden talent -- ???

Re 9/11, for instance, the talent that helped with the videos seems to be becoming clear -
names are bouncing out.



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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #126
260. Okay, now I'm really confused. Why on earth would LBJ perpetrate a moon landing hoax just so
he could give money to the GOP's in order to finance dirty tricks?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #260
271. LBJ moved the whole thing to Texas from Florida -- !!!
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 11:12 PM by defendandprotect
Financing some cronies --

Nixon was actually president when Armstrong "landed on the moon" --


Both LBJ and Nixon were two of the many elected officials involved in the JFK assassination.

LBJ gave an interesting speech in the late 1950's about the moon being "the highest hill."

And we've been getting ready for some time to militarize the skies.


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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #116
129. The same Russians who, of course, keep totally silent about it? (nt)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #129
162. Their silence could have been the result of negotiation. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #129
272. The Russians would not have been believed --
America was very powerful at the time -- and trusted --

NOT like now!
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
128. The conspiracy will need to keep getting grander and grander....
We are sending a probe back to the moon. It launched last year. Whole new generation of people at NASA working on it.

It is going to photograph every square mile of the moon at a bout 2m resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reconnaissance_Orbiter


So we are going to see all the junk left over (not just from Apollo missions)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon

Of course the conspiracy theorist will say an entire new generation at NASA is on on the conspiracy. Thousands upon thousands of people involved in the new conspiracy to protect a program that is long since dead.

Japan is sending a mapping probe to the moon in 2012 so I guess they will be in on the conspiracy too.

The EU space program is looking to send a rover to the moon and it likely will catch glimpses of the "lunar junk" so they must be in on it too.

China wants to send a man to the moon in 2020-2030 timeframe so I guess they will be in on the conspiracy also.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #128
261. One of the two biggest DU "deniers" already addressed that.
Said "denier" has posited that the moon junk was placed there by unmanned spacecraft. Same way the moonrocks came to earth, inside an unmanned spacecraft.

Too too funny.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #128
273. Lots of talk but we haven't been back for close to 40 years--!!
And you find that believable?
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MazeRat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
131. Notice how they avoid discussing the Laser Ranging Retroreflector placed there by Apollo 11
The Laser Ranging Retroreflector experiment was deployed on Apollo 11, 14, and 15. It consists of a series of corner-cube reflectors, which are a special type of mirror with the property of always reflecting an incoming light beam back in the direction it came from. A similar device was also included on the Soviet Union's Lunakhod 2 spacecraft. These reflectors can be illuminated by laser beams aimed through large telescopes on Earth. The reflected laser beam is also observed with the telescope, providing a measurement of the round-trip distance between Earth and the Moon. This is the only Apollo experiment that is still returning data from the Moon. Many of these measurements have been made by McDonald Observatory in Texas. From 1969 to 1985, they were made on a part-time basis using the McDonald Observatory 107-inch telescope. Since 1985, these observations have been made using a dedicated 30-inch telescope. Additional measurements have been made by observatories in Hawaii, California, France, Australia, and Germany.

Laser beams are used because they remain tightly focused for large distances. Nevertheless, there is enough dispersion of the beam that it is about 7 kilometers in diameter when it reaches the Moon and 20 kilometers in diameter when it returns to Earth. Because of this very weak signal, observations are made for several hours at a time. By averaging the signal for this period, the distance to the Moon can be measured to an accuracy of about 3 centimeters (the average distance from the Earth to the Moon is about 385,000 kilometers).

The Laser Ranging Retroreflector experiment has produced many important measurements. These include an improved knowledge of the Moon's orbit and the rate at which the Moon is receding from Earth (currently 3.8 centimeters per year) and of variations in the rotation of the Moon. These variations in rotation are related to the distribution of mass inside the Moon and imply the existence of a small core, with a radius of less than 350 kilometers, somewhat smaller than the limits imposed by the passive seismic and magnetometer experiments. These measurements have also improved our knowledge of changes of the Earth's rotation rate and the precession of its spin axis and have been used to test Einstein's theory of relativity.


I guess all this data, the scientists (around the world), and me personally are in on the conspiracy as well. :crazy:

Those reflectors had to be placed and aligned. There was no robotic technology at the time that could do that. Only humans.

Peace,
MZr7
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. The solution is simple: the moon itself is a hoax! (nt)
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #131
139. Very good point. NASA has a plan for an international manned mission to moon in 2019
Now likely that will be delayed but it will happen eventually.

What will the moon nuts say when some future astronaut films the landing site, the flag, and the footprints?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. They'll claim they were fakes too; deniers aren't interested in facts, just their paranoia (nt)
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
134. Doesn't surprise me - hell, we got an entire sub-forum here at DU dedicated to folks who
basically believe in the equivalent of leprechauns and sky fairies, and whose "theories" when put to the factual test are actually the stuff of snips & snails & puppy dog tails. It's called the September 11 forum.

Like someone else mentioned, I don't believe this is a progressive or conservative thing - there's a small residue of certifiable loons on both sides of the aisle who believe in stuff like faked moon landings, chem-trails sapping our precious bodily fluids, and "controlled demolitions" at the WTC on 9/11.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #134
141. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #134
171. Deleted message
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
144. If it was faked, then I think the Soviets would have been screaming non-stop...
About what a fraud the U.S.A. was to the rest of the world, and dug in for world political points.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #144
154. Their silence could have been negotiated for something in return.
Obviously it would have defeated the purpose to have had a public signing of such an agreement.
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #154
193. That right there is the best argument that the landings were real
I did read somewhere that there was some kind of big humanitarian aid package of grain for Russia from us around that time. That could have been the payoff.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #193
205. "... that the landings were real."? n/t
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #154
197. Negotiated for what? Their slow humiliating destruction?
Bzzzzzt.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
155. Those 6% Are Some Of The Absolute Dumbest Of The Dumb For Sure.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #155
158. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. Deleted message
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:09 PM
Original message
... and in the forty years since 'Apollo' manned space flight has been limited to LEO! n/t
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
164. You don't know anything about the history of the space program do you? -nt-
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
159. 6%. And they all voted mccain/palin. nt
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. More likely to have been unquestioning 'Apollo' believers. n/t
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #160
210. I guess we're all lucky
that a few truly brilliant people are around. Say hi to Ayn for me.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
165. Kicking to see if any of the deniers have an explanation for the retroreflectors. -nt-
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. Ah, nevermind. I just looked it up on some nutty site.
Apparently these people believe that the reflectors were put there remotely.
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Zort Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. I always get that answer when bringing up the reflectors.
By that time I just shake my head and move on.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. That merely covers the true story, that the moon itself is fake. (nt)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #168
173. Sometimes the best explanation is the simplest. n/t
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. You think that it's simpler to position a reflector with a remote controlled lunar lander...
than to simply do it by hand?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #174
180. He thinks it's simpler for every government on Earth to perpetuate a lie than for it to be true. nt
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #174
185. The reflector wouldn't have needed the amount of shielding required to protect a person. n/t
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #185
195. The Russians tried to place a reflector with a remote lander a few years later but it failed.
They eventually got one up there though. We placed 3 arrays by hand and they're all still working.

There are photos of the arrays placed by the two later missions. So do you believe that these reflectors were replaced by remotely controlled lunar landers and for each later mission they did another fake photo shoot to create these new images? So there's a real reflector on the moon (remotely placed) and corresponding fake reflector photography created in the studio?
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #185
202. here's a quote:
"Getting to the Moon really isn't much of a problem - the Russians did that in 1959. The big problem is getting people there."
-- Marcus Allen, the British publisher of Nexus magazine
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #173
179. So the simplest explanation...
...is that something on the order of half a million people working directly on or near the Apollo program, the entire government of the United States, and the collective leaderships of the Soviet Union, China, and their allies - all of whom stood to gain quite a bit by making the US look like fools - maintained a perfect, unanimous decision to perpetuate the idea that the United States put six manned spacecraft on the lunar surface when they in fact did not? That there was no skepticism, no outcries denouncing such a falsehood, from anywhere significant on the planet in the at-times deeply anti-American late 1960s and early 1970s?

That's the simpler explanation compared to their simply having gone there?

Are you using some strange definition of "simplest" that actually means "most complex," or are you just throwing out platitudes along the lines of "the Lord works in mysterious ways" and thinking that it somehow supports your point?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #179
274. And, of course, America would have believed what the Chinese said -- !!!
Are you kidding?

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
170. (shrug) 60%+ don't believe in evolution.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #170
292. +1
A faked moon landing is quite a bit more plausible than Genesis.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
177. One mysterious Apollo Program related death...
"NASA worker Thomas Baron (automobile collision with train, 1967 shortly after making accusations before Congress about the cause of the Apollo 1 fire, after which he was fired.) Ruled as suicide.

Baron was a quality control inspector who wrote a report critical of the Apollo program and was an outspoken critic after the Apollo 1 fire. Baron and his family were killed as their car was struck by a train at a train crossing."
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #177
183. LOL, now we're seeing a retasked version of the Clinton Death Lists?
This is fantastic. :rofl:
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #183
188. Gus Grissom's family didn't belive NASA's version of the Apollo 1 fire.
Gus was becoming an increasingly vocal critic of the program. The 'tragic accident' was fortuitous to some.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #188
191. So what? (nt)
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #191
215. They would have a great insight with regard to motive! n/t
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #188
198. Apparently it's damning evidence to you.
The mind of a conspiracy theorist frightens me. It really shows the blind ignorance humans are capable of.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #198
276. You mean the Grissom family's concerns frighten you . . . ???
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #188
201. He didn't have the sort of 'right stuff' they were looking for
In January 1967, Grissom hung a lemon on his Apollo capsule and told his wife Betty, "If there is ever a serious accident in the space program, it's likely to be me."

Nobody knows what fueled his fears, but by the end of the month he and his two co-pilots were dead, burnt to death during a test run when their capsule, pumped full of high pressure pure oxygen, exploded.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #201
213. There was also the author of a scathing report who had an early end.
Needless to say the report was subsequently suppressed.


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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #213
220. Give us a link to the report- or are you supressing it?
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #213
221. Give us a link to the report- or are you supressing it?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #188
275. Evidently Grissom had hung a lemon from the capsule . .. ??
yes, some did think that the problem with the hatch opening and I think water
began rushing in might have been an attempt to kill him at that time.

And people wonder why the astronauts wouldn't speak out if it was a fake?

I think three died in that fire --??
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #177
196. That was no suicide.
I heard the actual cause of death was a punch in the face from Buzz Aldrin.
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #177
199. That's the worst one of all
If you are going to commit suicide, do you gather the whole family together, get them in the car, and then go park on the train tracks and wait for the end? Well, that's the official story.

Several years after NASA claimed its first Moon landing, Buzz Aldrin "the second man on the Moon" was asked at a banquet what it felt like to step on to the lunar surface. Aldrin staggered to his feet and left the room crying uncontrollably. It would not be the last time he did this. Was he suffering from trying to live out a very big lie? Aldrin may have also feared for his life.

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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
178. To paraphrase someone on creationists -
"Debating conspiracy theorists on the topic of the moon landings/9-11/JFK's assassination/Obama's birth certificate is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #178
214. Being ignorant on so many things must be truly bliss! n/t
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #214
224. I wasn't going to pigeonhole you, but
you've proved yourself a pigeon.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #178
277. dupe
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 11:30 PM by defendandprotect
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
182. “They’ll say you have to keep an open mind,”
“They’ll say you have to keep an open mind,” he said, “but they reject every single piece of evidence that doesn’t adhere to their thesis.”

BINGO



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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #182
225. If you're too "open minded"
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #225
285. Good ole right wing saying --
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #285
290. Nope - good old skeptics saying -
Bet you believe in ghosts, fairies, Santa Claus and the tooth fairy too.

Not to mention homeopathy.
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ChimpersMcSmirkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
189. I feel sad for all of those who think the Apollo landings were a hoax.
All six of them...
:rofl:

According to Dr. James Longuski, Professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics Engineering at Purdue University, the size and complexity of the alleged conspiracy theory scenarios make their veracity an impossibility.<21> More than 400,000 people worked on the Moon landing project for nearly ten years, and a dozen men who walked on the Moon returned to Earth to recount their experiences.<21> Hundreds of thousands of people (astronauts, scientists, engineers, technicians, and skilled laborers) would have had to keep the secret.<21> Longuski also contends that it would have been significantly easier to actually land on the Moon than to generate such a massive conspiracy to fake such a landing.<21>

You conspiracy theorists are less compelling then the birfers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_conspiracy_theories

:patriot:
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #189
200. Hundreds of thousands of people, my ass
Only a select few would have needed to know. And those who were involved and brought up concerns tended to mysteriously die before they talked.
How many people worked on the Manhattan Project? Did they all know everything? Even the highjackers on 9-11 didn't know the full plan. That's not the way it works.


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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #200
203. Yeah - your ass. The same place you're pulling most of this lunatic conspiracy bilge from. n/t.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-16-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #200
206. Your ass forgot "anybody with a working radio telescope"
Since all the voice, video, and telemetry was sent back to earth via highly directional microwave, anyone who wanted to pick them up would simply have to point their dish at the Moon.

So, not only does your theoretical conspiracy have to keep silent, but they have to remotely land corner reflectors AND
working microwave transmitters on the Moon and get them to work at the proper time at the proper frequency with their
transmitting dishes correctly aligned to aim at Earth.

And BTW, the Manhattan Project had several Soviet spies in it almost from its beginning, who were revealed within a few
years. Bad analogy.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #206
209. Who did the Soviet spies tell? It's easier to relay signals from the moon than actually...
... go there in person.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #209
230. And land 4 (not one or two or three but four) lasers on 4 seperate mission?
Lasers which need to be so finely aimed that the Russian attempt to do it remotely failed twice.
The laser is likely transmitting it just missed the earth.

So there was a secret mission to send a transmission relay to the moon.
At least 4 secret missions to land automated landers to deploy 4 laser transmitters on the moon.
Not to mention faked deaths and faked emergencies like Apollo 13.

All these secret missions to the moon to fake going to the moon.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #200
208. Exactly. The other thing in any conspiracy's favour is the phenomenon of 'whose gonna believe it?'
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 12:01 AM by ControlledDemolition
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #208
219. Who's gonna believe Apollo kept secrets where the Manhattan Project couldn't
even when Apollo was larger, done in public, and has kept the 'secret' far longer than the Manhattan project ever did?
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #219
229. Also it involved other countries.
The earth was facing away from the moon at the time of Apollo 11 landing.

The original signal was captured by a large dish receiver in Australia.

So the Australian govt pretended to receive a signal from the moon to cover up for an American conspiracy?

Not only has a single person in the US never leaked it but nobody in Australia did either?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #229
283. Actually . . . as I recall, it was in Australia that the "coke" bottle
whistleblowing was seen . . .

Presumably a rocket was fired and may have hit the moon --
the question is who was in it -- anyone at all?

Substitute astronauts sacrificing their lives to see if they could make it?

Evidently some Cosmonauts did sacrifice their lives in such attempts.

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #208
237. Why won't you address your proven falsehood as shown in post #99 in this thread?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #208
284.  Excellent point -- despite government's history of lies, it's believed--!!!
Plus, of course, this was heavily televized . . .

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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #189
249. these people have no clue how many ppl it take to make a mission
You are correct thousands of people worked on the launch vehicle and the space craft, the launch and the return. It's frankly stupid to think these people many trained scientist faked it, or some how were completely fooled by a select few. You can't help but giggle at the people that believe weird things.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
211. !











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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
226. Proof that it was faked...
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #226
228. Oooooo. Spooky!
:rofl:
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nonsequitur Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #226
244. LMFAO, that proves it, now i'm a believer, they faked it.
kidding of course
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E-Z-B Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
227. Guess what, guys? Nasa "lost" the original footage, so Hollywood is restoring it.
Still believe it's real now?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_sc/us_sci_moon_video

Like I already said, it's cheaper, easier, and much less risky to fake it. And it pwned the soviets.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #227
281. Fascinating . . .
They couldn't afford new tapes . . . saving money for taxpayers --

How nuts do you have to be to believe that?!!

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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
232. Unbelievable - CNN front page poll - 14% of the respondents believe the moon landings were faked!!
I'm going to lie down, cold compress on my forehead, have a large gin, smoke some weed and watch Gilligan.

:argh: :crazy: :wtf: :spank: :nuke: :scared: :banghead: :spray: Words fail me.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #232
282. And you know what ... many Americans have never given it any thought --
but evidently 14% of them are beginning to!!

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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #282
289. No they're not - They're in that "Everybody's opinion has equal weight" school of thought
Denigrating the efforts of the thousands of men and women who put people on the moon back in the 60's.

Just egregious bullshit.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
239. To look at some excellent posts on why the moon landings ACTUALLY HAPPENED...
Go over to Discovery - Bad Astronomy blog http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/16/nasa-releases-partially-restored-apollo-11-footage/#comments

While on the page search for the following post in response to a troll named "Virgil" - Who could well be any moon landing denier posting anywhere -
102. Jim Wright Says:
" .... Rude is insisting that this type of cockamamie garbage be given equal consideration with actual reality.

Rude is claiming, repeatedly in every forum he can reach, that those brave men, heroes all, the 30 men who have flown to the moon and the 12 men who walked upon its surface and all of the astronauts and cosmonauts of all nations before and since, and all of those tens of thousands men and women who worked tirelessly to complete the engineering, to build the ships, to monitor and guide the missions all over the world, and those Navy Sailors who waited out there on the sea to recover the returning missions, and all of those scientists who worked on the moon samples, and all of those historians who have analyzed every second of those moon missions are nothing more than liars and frauds and charlatans."


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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
245. Ok, I cant contain my outrage anymore.
The few of you here who deny human landings on the moon should be slapped. What a fuckin disgrace :puke: :puke:
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
263. Ok. found some landing site photos from the Lunar Reconaissance Orbiter
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/

Of course, the conspiracy theorists will dismiss these as faked. Which brings up another point:

Why then is the unemployment rate so high? Seems as if there should be a roaring demand for CMSs (Conspiracy
Maintenance Specialists). SOMEONE has to make all those phony films and photos and plant drugs in the
apartments of pesky reporters (vide Capricorn One)
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
279. Well, they were faked, and I know this for a fact w/ inside knowledge
My parents were part of the military-industrial complex, Navy, defense contractors, oil companies, the whole enchilada. My mother worked in Grumman's travel office in the 1960s. Now, if these people were spacemen, why would she have to book aircraft flights for people like John Glenn?

I didn't think you had an answer for that.
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
287. Interesting statistic would be how many are registered republicans
Or maybe I'll amend that and include "conservative" or "centrist" democrats.
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Fgiriun Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
288. "The truth will out" The Merchant of Venice, William Shakespeare
I have always regarded myself unobtrusively on many matters discussed on DU but have always found this topic fascinating to say the least.
For those of you who are quick to judge the quote in my subject line does not validate my stance for either side in this discussion but instead will hopefully help some realize that not all is known and there are huge gaps left to fill and eventually, like nearly all things, the truth will come to light. It is up to people to make something of the truth by keeping an open mind and to not come to an abrupt judgment prior to its discovery.
I will not delve into the physics and mathematics and all of its fundamental branches to prove the point of whether the Apollo mission was possible.
Instead I would like to point out how some here take this issue too personally. Some appear to feel insulted as to how others might disagree with them and in turn bash at anyone who may differ. There is always room for doubt, if not for doubt then civilization wouldn't have risen from unsophisticated foundation to achieve the marvels that many take for granted.
I believe that some people take this issue to heart in a way that it becomes patriotic to accept it as an unmistakable truth. That also happens to be the same judgment that many felt, to point out a recent national event, during 9/11 and the weeks and months after. It is that feeling of excessive pride that drowns the very soul and reasoning which leads to recklessness, disaster and worse of all, the complete disregard for the truth. The war in Iraq came to be based on lies set upon the ruins that lay for all to see, and for that matter ruins that have yet to be rebuilt.

Why would NASA have the astronauts, while in low earth orbit, cover a window on the spacecraft in such a way to make the earth appear smaller and have Neil Armstrong claim that they were 130,000 miles away from the earth which is a little more than halfway to the moon a few days before the actual landing?
Could it be that they were preparing footage in case anything went wrong in the mission and had to return to earth; but regardless the deceitful intention was present.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z17WsAOgf4U&feature=related

None of us, be it the conspiracy theorist or those who defend the moon landing's validity have a grasp at the magnitude of the project requiring thousands of workers each with a very specific assignment. No single human being could understand the full technicality of such enormous endeavors. We shouldn't be judgmental but rather reveal, with unbiased certainty, the little facts we know to be true.

I'm at odds with those who suggest that if the moon landings were faked the Soviets would have screamed out fallacy for you should be asking yourself why didn't they? Some countries will accuse the U.S. for causing or creating, indirectly or directly, problems and then lying about it just to appease to their population in many cases.
Why didn't the USSR accuse the U.S. of lying about the moon landing even if out of all certainty they were 100% sure it happened? They didn't have anything to lose plus they would have had all their sympathizers behind them in unison and further divided the world. Wasn't that after all what they wanted.


I hope that within a few years all the top space agencies in the world will send unmanned satellites to take close up pictures of the moon's surface and forever lay to rest this decade old debate.

"...breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers"-Neil Armstrong 1994
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #288
293. What "huge gaps" are you talking about?
Apart from the erasure of the original tapes because they had gotten the data from them and were reusing tape - the documentation and number of witnesses seeing the rockets go up, the transmissions from the moon, the reflectors placed on the moon from which we still get data plus the moon rocks themselves - there are no gaps.

By giving the deniers even the courtesy of entertaining their miserable hypotheses we encourage them. Not all opinions have equal weight despite post modernist thought.

"I hope that within a few years all the top space agencies in the world will send unmanned satellites to take close up pictures of the moon's surface and forever lay to rest this decade old debate." There is no debate - there are the facts of the moon landings and then there are those people who are convinced because of their own lack of intelligence and understanding who deny the landings happened. They remind me of the old guy who lived down the street and was convinced that the electric company was spying on him through his radio. They live in a world peopled with "dark forces" keeping them down. They make me despair for the future of the human race because they are so fucking stupid.
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