I need some answers about the "secret CIA program" for a rwing fundie who is throwing a fit...

[Blue_Roses]

that I am a "water-bearer" for "Democrat propaganda"...:eyes: It's a conversation I got in with my neighbor who was bitching about the 38 "czars" Obama placed in office and he was saying, "what happened to oversight"? I said, " well, Cheney set the bar for "oversight" with his secret club." He then gave me the link below and asked me how this was any different than the current info? I honestly couldn't answer, so anyone who can shed CLEAR info on the differences, other than Panetta going to the Dems, please do. He's waiting on a response and I am dying to give him one. I just want to make sure I have the RIGHT info first.

__________________________________________________________________


Bush Has Widened Authority of C.I.A. to Kill Terrorists
By JAMES RISEN and DAVID JOHNSTON
Published: Sunday, December 15, 2002


WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 ? The Bush administration has prepared a list of terrorist leaders the Central Intelligence Agency is authorized to kill, if capture is impractical and civilian casualties can be minimized, senior military and intelligence officials said.

The previously undisclosed C.I.A. list includes key Qaeda leaders like Osama bin Laden and his chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, as well as other principal figures from Al Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups, the officials said. The names of about two dozen terrorist leaders have recently been on the lethal-force list, officials said. "It's the worst of the worst," an official said.

President Bush has provided written legal authority to the C.I.A. to hunt down and kill the terrorists without seeking further approval each time the agency is about to stage an operation. Some officials said the terrorist list was known as the "high-value target list." A spokesman for the White House declined to discuss the list or issues involving the use of lethal force against terrorists. A spokesman for the C.I.A. also declined to comment on the list.

Despite the authority given to the agency, Mr. Bush has not waived the executive order banning assassinations, officials said. The presidential authority to kill terrorists defines operatives of Al Qaeda as enemy combatants and thus legitimate targets for lethal force.

Mr. Bush issued a presidential finding last year, after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington, providing the basic executive and legal authority for the C.I.A. to either kill or capture terrorist leaders. Initially, the agency used that authority to hunt for Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan. That authority was the basis for the C.I.A.'s attempts to find and kill or capture Mr. Bin laden and other Qaeda leaders during the war in Afghanistan.

The creation of the secret list is part of the expanded C.I.A. effort to hunt and kill or capture Qaeda operatives far from traditional battlefields, in countries like Yemen.

The president is not legally required to approve each name added to the list, nor is the C.I.A. required to obtain presidential approval for specific attacks, although officials said Mr. Bush had been kept well informed about the agency's operations.

more...



http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/15/international/15INTE.html

[ShamelessHussy]

1. It isn't any different and that is why many are calling BS on the current story

There has to be much more than what has been released so far so tell him to sit tight ;)

[Winterblues]

9. The program is not what is in question

It is Cheney ordering the CIA to not tell Congress about it in direct violation of US Law.

[Blue_Roses]

10. thank-you

that's what I was looking for...:)

[ShamelessHussy]

12. The big 'TOP SECRET' plan was all over the M$M

Not only did congress know about it, the whole world did, to.

Tying to claim that THIS was the secret program is BS since even my high school kids KNEW about it and discussed in class back then, sheesh.

[Blue_Roses]

13. this is starting to sound like one of those "who's on first" jokes...

:eyes:

[ShamelessHussy]

14. yeah, big joke

thirdbase - lol

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Risen has been on top of this story

for a long, long time, and now he's talking it up - I think he was on Countdown or Rachel last week.

There is no difference - just that it's getting a lot more exposure now.

What's the argument? I'm not following your story.................

[babylonsister]

3. Cheney gave direct orders to the CIA NOT to inform Congress.

Is this a monarchy and who appointed Cheney king? He illegally bypassed branches of our government.

[Political Heretic]

7. Yes, and also we don't know what exactly was being kept from congress.

The speculation right now by the media is vague, and nonspecific.

[JackRiddler]

11. If that's the whole story, then wasn't the Congress reading the NYT in 2002?

[Mz Pip]

4. Personally, I don't think we know

the whole story here. Something is missing. Like why would Cheney tell the CIA to lie about a program we never used? Why would congress even be surprised that the CIA was out to get terrorists? Our military was doing the same thing and after 9/11 I can't imagine that anyone would be surprised that we wereusing whatever meanswe had to get these guys.

So wait for the drip drip drip to become a steady stream. There's more to this than meets the eye.

[C_U_L8R]

5. No one knows what the "secret program" is really about.

They Bush/Cheny gang lied about it without any accountability for 8 years and
there is no reason to believe that they are now suddenly being truthful.

I have no idea how this compares to whatever czar squawk the winger is talking about.
Why should there be a comparison when one thing has seemingly nothing to do with the other?

[peacetalksforall]

6. He's right. Essentially he is saying what we were saying. However, during the

the last eight years before Obama no one interrupted except the few who said that this was not about terrorism, it was about taking the earth resources and establishing a military base and making things safer for Israel.

Now, he believes there should be oversight. And it sounds like he will blame Obama if there isn't oversight.

Basically, he is right about the article. Eyes are opening up to some extent.

There is more work to get to the truth. The NYT story of today and the appearances and statement of the Mrs. is a lie. Not truth.

If the truth is that the 'program' involves something against U.S. citizens regarding spying or something worse, then your neighbor is going to think it is a great idea and will stop talking about oversight.

[Blue_Roses]

8. what is "statement of the Mrs."?

nt

[peacetalksforall]

15. Mrs. Cheney. She's back. On the screen. Defending, talking, defending,

[Solomon]

16. People should be outraged about this. Here we have Cheney

operating a secret CIA program SIX MONTHS INTO ANOTHER PRESIDENCY WITHOUT THAT PRESIDENT'S KNOWLEDGE.

If this isn't treason, then there is no such thing as treason. My God. I can't for the life of me understand how people don't realize how messed up this is.

[laststeamtrain]

17. "Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown."