DU and me

[Mythsaje]

I oppose corporate personhood. I stand for marriage equality. I oppose wars of imperial conquest, unlawful detention, domestic spying, and putting insurance company and pharmaceutical industry profitability ahead of the health and welfare of American citizens. I'm anti-torture, pro-free speech, and a firm believer in the right of self-defense. I believe women are just as good as men, if not a little better, that religion is nonsense but religious expression, like free speech, remains a fundamental human right.

In short, I'm a liberal. That's why I post on DU. Also because, in general, I've found DUers to be intelligent, informed, conscious beings with open hearts and questing minds. DU is a good place to get information, share ideas, and make friends.

I also post here because I like a certain amount of attention. Not too much attention, certainly not being the center of attention, but being one of many who might draw a little more attention than average--that I can live with. Being appreciated for my writing is no small thing for someone who's been doing it as long as I have. We all need outside affirmation. It's not an expression of weakness to admit it. I've been writing for the entertainment of others since I was in grade school. DU in particular has offered me a chance to write for edification as much as entertainment. That's a wonderful feeling as well.

One of the things I like the most about DU is that it's not dominated by a handful of professional bloggers, people who are PAID to post news articles or their opinions. I do not myself pretend to be some sort of journalist. I'm just an opinionated guy with a talent with words and some serious objections to the status quo.

Some folks like my rants. Some folks apparently do not. That fact doesn't bother me. It's not as though I like every writer I come across, even if I do agree with his or her politics. I've never required or even requested lockstep agreement. I don't mind debate. In fact, I've authored many rants inviting commentary. You'd think if there were such a large number of people who don't like me--for whatever reason--they'd be happy to chime in and counter my statements. I know that when I get my facts wrong (and that's certainly happened a time or two) someone always joins in and points this out. That's exactly the sort of thing I appreciate the most.

As I am a member of no organized group or sub-culture, I can't claim to speak for anyone but myself. And I don't. So what you get here is MY opinions, my perspective, my point of view. I've never pretended otherwise.

Rec/Unrec... At this point I don't give a shit. I'll keep sharing my opinions on occasion and people can make of them what they will. I guess it may be time to actually make use of the ignore feature, something I haven't done since the Primary Wars. Then again, I find that some of the worst offenders then are still in the same mode now, so perhaps I should have just left them on ignore in the first place. I'm just not a big fan of Ignore, or anything else that would silence people. Even ones I disagree with. Guess I'm in the minority there. Big surprise.

The Freepers might have called us "sore losers" in the past but I see far more signs of us being "sore winners." Silly me--I didn't recognize that being a good liberal was a competition. Even my attempts to make it to the Greatest Page in the past were, as far as I was concerned, about out-doing myself rather than "beating" anyone else. But something tells me that this isn't a concept that many of my detractors would recognize or understand.

More's the pity.

And as far as being pissed off when my character's been impugned... Funny that I'd take that sort of thing personally, eh? Not an attack on my ideas, or my opinions, or even my writing, but on ME, personally. Very Rovian tactic, don't you think? I certainly do. Call it melodramatic or "drama queen" behavior if you will, but I don't know too many people who can ignore personal attacks with brilliant aplomb. As I'm no longer as accustomed to them as I was as a child, a certain amount of overreaction might be understandable. I've grown to expect at least a modicum of respect from those around me, given that I myself generally do unto others as I'd have them do unto me. The Golden Rule is useful even for non-believers.

It's too bad that there are those who think they deserve what they can't be bothered to earn. When people who can't be bothered to debate an opinion or idea instead choose to make it personal, one has to wonder at their motivations. Are they borrowing a page from the Republican tactical manual, or are they acting according to their own inner nature? I do notice a certain tone of "get over it" that seems frightfully familiar.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[MichiganVote]

1. Gotta be some kind of nobody to want a competition for the "greatest" page.

[damntexdem]

2. Hey, better to be a sore winner than a loser, sore or otherwise.

;-)

[Hutzpa]

3. I've been thinking about this for awhile

after reading your OP, we definitely need to write 'DU for Dummies 101"

[EFerrari]

8. I've been reading you today and am putting you on ignore to improve my DU experience.

[Hutzpa]

10. Well thank you

you won't be the first and I can assure you, you're not going to be
the last.

Good riddance.... :hi:

[county worker]

4. This is no attack on you. I find it enlightening that some DUers take posting here so serious or

important.


I hope DU is for you what you need it to be. And I hope that for everyone here. For me it is where I go to get the news. I read others opinions and most of the time I agree with them and many times I don't.

I am not a writer but DU is important to me. Other than Ebay it is the only other site I go to regularly.

So keep up the writing and maybe you'll enlighten me again.

[EFerrari]

12. DU is or was or is a great venue for writers.

You couldn't ask for a more active audience. That's never something to take lightly whether you are a professional or whether writing is your avocation.

[Mythsaje]

74. Too true...

Even a "K&R" could be valuable feedback in its own way. It meant that what you wrote reached someone, and that's really what it's all about.

[OhioChick]

5. Good Post.

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

6. I hear that, Saje and have two unrelated thoughts about what you've said.

One, DU is much bigger now, and in a way, this change is going to make it less personal. It will be like the other forums of this size with similar features. It tends to quash relationships because there's nothing really less relational than anonymous negative votes, lol. Maybe some of us who have been here for a while feel that instinctively and that's part of our objection. It was nice to feel as though when we came here, we were coming to a place where people posted, not user names.

And in a way, I get all the stupid criticism you've gotten because most of those posters don't know you and didn't know DU when it was a little smaller and more collegial. They just have their Internets attitude on and it never occurs to them that they don't have the whole story, or that there is a story. And of course, some people are just assholes.

This whole episode may just be a consequence of "bigger" at DU.

The other thought is, I don't post essays very often, not as often as you or Time For Change or H20 Man or Will Pitt but when I have, DU has been encouraging for me as a writer and as a thinker. Most writers don't get that very often. My essays are mostly off beat stuff and I wonder if that will even work here any more. But the up side is that I've met people from all over the net here, people with venues and have an audience now -- mostly because it felt okay to take a trial run at DU where I could count on smart feedback from people with similar loves. I wonder if that will still be possible. I hope so but, don't know that it will. We'll see.

[Horse with no Name]

18. I think you have hit the nail on the head

We had an influx a few years ago...post Andy.
It definitely changed the dynamic here...and took us further to the center than I feel comfortable with.
Maybe I am opposed to change...but I kind of liked the collegial feel we used to have.
You are absolutely correct in that that particular feeling is gone.
I poured my heart into essays at one point only to have them sink to the bottom...until I realized that I either didn't have anything special to say or nobody really cared about my opinion. Either way, I think I came to that truth a long time ago.
As far as the rec, unrec feature...it matters not to me. Very seldom do I rec posts...and I certainly never did it frivolously, but each time when I did, I felt a certain inspiration or awe of what the OP had to say...of its importance and relevance and grasp on something that was meaningful...at least to me.
By the same token, I will not use the unrec feature very much either. I really don't see the need for it.
But then again, I never visit the Greatest Page either because a good topic should stand on its own and float on its own merit. I don't think Sage has anything to worry about.
:hug:

[EFerrari]

22. Hey, there, Horse with no Name.

:hi:

[PSzymeczek]

7. Well said, Mythsaje n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

9. Where are the Unwreckers? They apparently haven't yet realized

that this thread is an oblique reference to them. They can't read more than a few sentences into a post, apparently.

:think:

[EFerrari]

11. Why read when you can click on a link.

lol

[Obamanaut]

13. I'm sorry, were you speaking? I must have dozed off. n/t

[EFerrari]

17. Let this be known as the Great June Purge of 2009.

[Obamanaut]

25. July. known. nt

[Obamanaut]

66. Good job.

:evilgrin:

[PretzelWarrior]

15. I read it all and unrec'd it. also commented on it.

[BlooInBloo]

16. I read it. I just don't care about paranoid persecution-mongers....

Not even enough to unrec them.

[scheming daemons]

69. Meh... here's what I think about this thread

[Mythsaje]

71. That's not in the least sexist...really.

I'm under contractual obligation to be an "attention whore." If you don't like it, don't read my stuff. Or doesn't that suit your taste for malevolent discourse?

[pecwae]

76. No, this OP is about the OP.

I read the entire post. It's all about the author. Even the oblique reference you cite is about the author. Someone downthread mentioned navel gazing of which this is a good example.

[PretzelWarrior]

14. it just seems you're making it about you. Every post lately is about

your personal journey, your writing, how DU affects you.

Why not focus outward again and write interesting topical articles here that people are likely to read and appreciate?

[EFerrari]

19. When writers talk about themselves, they're also writing about us.

It goes both ways, every time.

[PretzelWarrior]

21. well then he's doing it poorly. because I'm not feeling revelations about human condition

I'm feeling bored with the "woe is me" approach. It sounds like he's tacitly admitting part of his self esteem was wrapped up in getting some of his work to the "greatest" page and this new "unrec" development is making him sad.

[EFerrari]

23. Do you seriously believe that any writer has no ego bound up in their work?

And isn't DU a huge place where you can click on hundreds of threads instead of coming to this thread to bash the OP?

Seriously, he's not being paid to entertain you. Sounds like your ego investment isn't serving you well.

[cali]

26. and what works for one reader doesn't work for another.

and frankly, the OP's writing doesn't work for me.

[EFerrari]

27. I will alert the media.

[cali]

30. feel free. you are making it personal yourself. funny that you can't even see your own

snark.

[EFerrari]

35. You have treated this board to your informed analysis of my many faults for a long time.

It's nice to see that some things don't change.

[cali]

37. wow. that's more than a little paranoid.

[EFerrari]

39. See? Who wouldn't want to read that kind of skillful analysis?

[cali]

43. um, do you really think your snark is somehow skillful analysis?

:rofl:

yes, of course you do. you've made that abundantly clear.

[EFerrari]

56. I leave you to the conversation you are having with yourself

which is likely the best use of your commentary.

[Mythsaje]

75. Think you forgot a word...

That would be "ill-informed analysis..." It's the only way the sentence makes sense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Then don't read his posts

Seems simple enough.

[hfojvt]

44. that would only be true

if I ever had a thread with over ten recs. Or heck, even one with more than ten replies.

[hfojvt]

20. some people choose to make it personal

YOU have chosen to make it personal though, by talking about yourself.

Many other people might feel that they too have been misused, ignored and refused on DU, but do not start multiple threads about it. They just give up and let go. Other people, who perhaps have done the abusing, may also jump in the thread to justify what they have done (or what their peeps have done). Such is the nature of calling out and personal threads.

[EFerrari]

24. Or maybe you are just uncomfortable talking to people who own their positions.

Love that unrec, do you? :)

[cali]

32. did the poster say word one about unreccing? No, but there you go again with

a personal attack. quite interesting.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

38. Sorry, cali, maybe we need to get you an interpreter who can read.

lol

[Horse with no Name]

54. I was wondering who you were talking to

Thanks for the heads up!

[hfojvt]

41. not really a personal attack was it?

I maintain the illusion that Ms. Ferrari is okay with me.

And I have stated elsewhere that I like the UnRec.

But I usually own my positions too, unreccing a thread and also posting WHY I think it is dreck.

[EFerrari]

42. That's more than fair. n/t

[hfojvt]

47. I perhaps should note

that that does not apply to this thread. I have not U'd this thread, nor said it was dreck, although I disagreed with one point. I don't think Saje or you or I can start a thread about 'me' and then complain when people make it personal. Both the subject matter and the complaint about what others are doing are personal.

[EFerrari]

50. Speaking in the first person is a rhetorical device that isn't the same as personalizing. n/t

[Mythsaje]

45. Yes, skulking away like a kicked dog is SUCH a Democratic thing to do.

Too bad I'm not that kind of Democrat.

[hfojvt]

51. it's an American thing to do

If you were born down in a dead man's town.

But I didn't say anything about skulking away. More about suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, rolling with the punches or hitting back directly. Usually when another poster gets ad hominem I call them on it rather than starting a thread to complain about ad hominem attacks. When a DUer called me a Nazi for using German, I replied back to him auf Deutsch.

[omega minimo]

28. "Sore Winners"

:rofl:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

31. You overuse commas n/t

[cali]

33. lol. and? that's the best you can do, dear?

[leftstreet]

34. When I read your stuff I feel like I'm hyperventilating

I mean, if we're all supposed to start critiquing writing on this thread...

[cali]

36. glad to see I have such an impact on you.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

40. I thought to myself that this thread would wind up being

in the running for "Worst of DU". Didn't know it would get there so unmistakably quickly, though.

What do you think of the idea that this is part of bigger?

[bvar22]

46. It is a part of "bigger",

...but it is also a consequence of the Democratic Party gaining Majorities and the Presidency.

The Democratic Party is NOW "The Establishment".

Those of us criticizing "Centrist" policy are now disloyal "Democrats".

Democratic Underground in NOW Aboveground.
Time to move Uptown or be banished.

[Mythsaje]

48. Yeah...that's how it's looking to me, too.

Like I said... Chickenshit.

[bvar22]

52. I am familiar with the feeling.

My Wife (Starkraven) and I have never been accused of following the herd.
We have either lived in gritty Urban settings, or in The Woods.

One of the things we loved about living Urban was the ability to discover Wonderful and Exciting Hole-in-the-Wall Bistros that offered exciting new dishes and varied ethnic challenges.
The patrons were locals, and if the place was good, the owners could cater to the patrons because the size was so small. It was also possible to become friends with regulars who appreciated the non-run-of-the-mill dishes and spicy preparations.

Invariably, word would get out, and the throngs from the suburbs would start showing up. Lines would form on the sidewalk, and it would become impossible to get a table. The food would become more bland and generic as the owners started cooking in larger quantities and started catering to the least common denominator.

That is the exact same feeling I have about DU today.

[PretzelWarrior]

53. oh. you're one of "those".

arrogant insider types. once an indy band goes big you don't like them anymore. well, you're more of a stylistic liberal concerned with being avant garde and maybe that obscures this important fact--you are now in a position to see some of the the things we just TALKED about finally get DONE.

[Horse with no Name]

58. You mistake a point or two (but who is counting)

But the people you accuse of TALKING are actually the REAL GRASSROOTS Democrats who got out and got things done and the ones who hopped aboard the Pied Piper train at the last minute who just happen to be what you consider the "meat of the party" these days are just along for the ride...at the expense of those you summarily dismiss.
Make no mistake....many on that same ride you are on will jump at the next bright shiny new toy that comes along--and in the end, you who think YOU are the movers and shakers will find out the truth.

[EFerrari]

59. Another great unification post.

[bvar22]

62. NO. I'm not one of "those".

I AM a "Liberal Activist" who has worked for "Liberal" causes for over 40 years.
I will never be mistaken for a "Centrist", and I oppose most "Centrist" policy.
Unfortunately, for some here, that makes me a bad Democrat and an Obama hater.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Here are the things I've "talked about" for 40 years.
I would truly love to see these things "finally done", but until that time, I will continue to work for them. I will applaud ANY step in this direction:

I am an advocate for the IMMEDIATE withdrawal of ALL US Military Forces from the Middle East.

I am an advocate for the REDUCTION of Defense Spending by at least 50%.

I am an advocate for Civil Rights and Equal Protections for ALL....no exceptions.

I am an advocate for Single Payer Universal HealthCare.

I am an advocate for FREE Universal Education at ALL levels for anyone who wants it.

I am an advocate for Rule of Law, no exceptions for the Elite Class.

I am an advocate for The Constitution, and the blanket re-instatement of our Rights as listed.

I am a advocate for The Poor and the Disenfranchised.

I am an advocate for Working Americans and Organized LABOR.
(Wall Street Bankers can go bust and stand in bread lines with the rest of us.)

I am an advocate for Economic Justice where Mom & Pop and the small Farmer can compete with Big Corpo on a level playing field.

I am a STRONG opponent to "Free Trade" (Race to the Bottom).

I am an opponent of the MIC.

I am an opponent to the concentration of Wealth & Power into fewer hands.

I am an opponent to Corporate/Republican Influence INSIDE the Democratic Party.


DU may change, but my beliefs and the issues I STAND for won't.

"Centrist" = Half Republican

[EFerrari]

55. We can't say we know evolution is a fact and ignore it on DU.

:)

And I trust Skinner and EarlG. They're tilting with this stuff more than we are in a way.

[EFerrari]

63. Maybe that's right. I wasn't thinking of this in terms of The Big Outside

but only in terms of DU.

It's hard to see our funny on line alliances and friendships and loyalties go through the blender. Even if it's necessary for the next stage of DU.

:(

[bvar22]

49. K&R

I generally like your stuff.
I will always clink on your threads and read what you have to say.
The changes at DU have made it a little more difficult to find threads that offer creative ideas, or provoke thought.

I HAVE discovered a new technique.
I simply scan the forums for those posts rated less than zero <0.
A quick check of the title and author lets me know whether to read them. :)

This was bound to happen....inevitable.
The Middle of the Herd never permits anything that challenges them or makes them uncomfortable.
DU has moved to the suburbs. :(

[Orwellian_Ghost]

60. Well doesn't this speak volumes

The fact that your mild foray into the critical mud here received such an UNRECCing speaks volumes as to the reactionary element that's having the day.

K&R

[EFerrari]

61. Yep. "Gracefully surrender the things of youth -- clean air, Taiwan, discussion."

[omega minimo]

73. "clean air, Taiwan, discussion, sitting in giant sand letters..................."

:eyes: :evilgrin: :pals:

[Horse with no Name]

64. Well my rec just brought you to "0"

Sooo...maybe the unreccer's have wreaked their havoc.

[timtom]

65. Ya know, Mythsaje?

I've always enjoyed your comments and your posts. I've been here since 2002 (under a different name -- got erroneously ts'd due to mistaken identity -- came back on as nathan hale until the name change).

You've always maintained a warm and cordial tone.

I view your detractor as blatherskites.

[Laelth]

67. Your threads always get my attention. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Ignis]

68. I know we've tussled in the past...

But I enjoy your writing and I make sure to read a post if I see you're the OP.

I don't think you're being a "drama queen," but those who call you that are revealing quite a bit about themselves, hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Hang in there. :hi:

[Luminous Animal]

70. Kick. Thanks Mythsaje for laying it bare. (n/t)

[omega minimo]

72. Well you've got DU navel gazing down to a science. Must be a Greatest!!!