My mom put in for a loan modification and it was delayed and delayed

[EFerrari]

and suddenly, she's been refused and they're taking her property.

It's theft. She went to them in good faith, the bank played her along and now, they're stealing her property.

I don't think there's anyone she can call to slow this down or to prevent them from walking away with her property.

She spent weeks dealing with this bank who shall remain nameless, putting together her package, her credit is fine, it was going well. And they held her off exactly until the point where she had no recourse. What a huge scam this is.

I'm trying to help her but real estate is like a black hole. Even if you can show what happened, who do you take it to? There's no one there watch dogging this shit and even most judges don't know very much about real estate law. This is unreal.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Did she stop making her payments

while the negotiations went on? Or was she in default before the modification took place?

Did she use an attorney for this? That might be a good idea right now. It might not be too late, if she gets counsel and s/he can intervene and at least get some room for your mom to draw some breath......................

[EFerrari]

4. The bank said that they couldn't do a remodification until it went into default.

And while it's in default, you can't make payments.

This is like some remake of Hansel and Gretel.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. So, they encouraged her to default?

She needs a lawyer - and fast...............

[EFerrari]

9. They said they couldn't do a refi or a remod without it.

Unreal. I wonder how many other people are being scammed this way.

Yeah, she needs a lawyer. Yesterday.

[imdjh]

17. ANd people wonder why some folks destroy houses on the way out.

How frustrating this must be. It was one of the most emotionally conflicting things people who work for a bank have to deal with, is the bank policy that the bank will not help someone until he is in default. If he calls up and says, "I'm in trouble." the bank goes into protection mode.

[RubyDuby in GA]

162. My brother's mortgage bank did the same thing to him

He and my SIL are letting the house go. They and their 9 month old son have moved into my parents fully furnished basement.


This is going to happen more and more often for quite a while. Oh, and for the record, his piece of shit bank was Suntrust so they can all go to hell.

[EFerrari]

175. If this happened to my mom, who is a real estate pro,

I can only imagine how many families are being sucked in.

I'm so sorry, Ruby. :(

[HughMoran]

187. That sounds like serious scam territory

I'd be really angry. :mad:

[flvegan]

19. They lied to her.

Agree with TL above, she should see a lawyer.

[EFerrari]

21. Yeah, they lied to her and they will probably get away with it

and there goes the income that was providing for her.

I can't even be mad right now because I might break something.

[mod mom]

90. unbelievable. The level of corruption & racketeering in this country to benefit

the corporations is astounding. Can she contact her elected official for help? maybe a watchdog group? So sorry!

[KakistocracyHater]

102. call your local Democratic Rep &/or senator

hopefully they'll take the opportunity & help her & you. Call your local tv news station, it seems roaches run when exposed by the media spotlight, somewhat.

[Selatius]

144. That, my friend, was a fucking TRAP.

Please don't tell me she defaulted on orders from the bank.

[jasi2006]

151. Report this to the Obama comment website.

Actually, they are still paying attention to these comments.

[Godhumor]

160. Mods can be done on "At-Risk" Current loans

Deeply sorry to hear the bank decided to play games.

[spotbird]

2. It's hard to tell what happened from your post,

but you may want to call your state Attorney's General office.

[EFerrari]

6. We have to find money to pay her way out. There's no one

in government that will really help with this.

But, it's amazing. She did exactly what she was supposed to do and the bank used that to try to steal her property. They may do it, too.

[Fire1]

12. Call HUD, too and tell them what happened and see what

they say.

[chimpymustgo]

44. Also call your state's attorney. And the consumer protection agency.

Good luck. Effing crooks.

[TwixVoy]

153. LOL Holy shit

"exactly what she was supposed to do"

"Supposed to do" according to you is this

1. She calls up the bank and finds out she is not able to participate in the program because she is able to make her payments has been doing so.
2. Bank tells her the program is only for people who legitimately can not make payments.
3. She takes this to me that she should stop making payments in hopes it will trick the bank in to thinking she actually can't make payments.
4. Bank forecloses after several months of not making payments.
5. The bank therefore "tricked" her in to no longer making payments, and is trying to "steal" her property.
6. We are supposed to feel bad for her while her bogus application for "help" that takes months to process takes attention away from people who actually need help and are running out of time.

That is some truly funny shit.

This is like a millionaire trying to qualify for food stamps. He is told he does not qualify, and that "food stamps are for people who can't afford to buy food". So he stops eating for a month, gets seriously ill, tries to get food stamps, almost gets them but fails when they find out he has millions in the bank.... then makes the claim the food stamp people "tricked" him in to not eating and they are responsible for his dire situation.

Does that sound ridiculous to you? I hope so because that is how ridiculous your claim the bank tricked you is. How about doing the HONEST thing and post back the other details of your situation you conveniently edited away from your other posts (such as being able to pay but choosing not to) before you get all these people who missed that info looking like idiots writing to the bank/congress people in your defense?

[wroberts189]

166. Many people may be able to still make the payments but are doing so using credit cards.

I make my payments on time but I can already see that 6 months from now that may not be the case due to the inflation that is killing us here.

Whats wrong with giving her the benefit of the doubt? You think everyone is trying to game the system? That's the same logic that killed off welfare and bankruptcy protections for us all.

[EFerrari]

178. Loan modification happens every day for a lot of reasons.

And it's hilarious that because she had the foresight to see trouble coming, my mom is being accused of all kinds of larceny. How many freepers post to this board, anyway?

Good grief. A loan modification doesn't mean YOU DON'T PAY THE LOAN.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Sigh. :(

[myrna minx]

7. I am so sorry.

:-(

[Tan Gent]

8. That's a shame but apparently it isn't her property.

If it is, just call the police.

[EFerrari]

10. Enjoy your stay at DU.

[Tan Gent]

15. What does that mean?

???

[Fire1]

24. It means that snark responses are not generally welcome

and are usually greeted with some measure of contempt, especially if someone is in distress for one reason or another.

[Tan Gent]

29. Contempt? The property is obviously mortgaged so the bank is the owner.

I said it's a shame and it is but that doesn't change the fact. Why would pointing that out be grounds to throw me out? That's pretty dumb.

[alstephenson]

32. The bank is a lien-holder, not the owner. Not yet, anyway...

I hate the banks.

[Fire1]

34. Thankyou. n/t

[flvegan]

35. No, no it isn't.

The owner is the fee simple titleholder. The mortgage is an encumbrance.

[Tan Gent]

42. But that "owner" cannot sell the property. It doesn't much matter what word is used

if the power rests with someone else. I'm not defending the bank or whoever the mortgagor is, just pointing out who can legally do what. If that makes me unwelcome here, so be it. I had no idea posting facts was grounds for hysteria...isn't that how they operate over at freeper?

[flvegan]

48. What are you talking about?

The fee simple owner CAN sell the property. The new owner is either obligated to assume the mortgage (with...or at times, without lender approval) or to get a new loan to satisfy the present loan at closing.

I never mentioned you being welcome or not, I'm correcting your "facts"

[Ignis]

56. Except I believe it's spelled "FCATS!!!!!!!!11" in Freepland, no?

Gotta have lots o' them ta debate the "Libs," ya know, ya betcha!

[Tan Gent]

71. Funny how this thread is full of suggestions on how to utilize technicalities to

get out of paying the debt. I'm really sorry but I don't find that a Democratic or Liberal or Honest way to conduct business. I guess it's different around here.
:shrug:

[Ignis]

73. Try reading the OP and the OP's first reply in the thread.

The bank told her they couldn't help until she got behind in payments. This is happening all over the country.

But I'm guessing you're just being intentionally dense to have a bit of sport, right?

:dunce:

[Tan Gent]

82. I'm guessing the bank has the legal right to do whatever it's doing.

No, I'm not a banker and I won't defend them but I don't think whining on a discussion board is a productive way to forestall legal actions. There still is a difference between what is and what some people want it to be...why are people bitching at me for pointing that out?
:eyes:

[Ignis]

98. "whining on a message board"

Try a little empathy next time. It won't kill you, I swear...no matter what the Swine Party tells you.

[Hannah Bell]

80. go suck eggs.

[Tan Gent]

83. Are you my little nephew?

Hi, Chuck!

[Carni]

92. YOU SUCK

I have always wanted to say that to a troll and now you "tan gent" have fulfilled my wish.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Control-Z]

103. You are on the wrong board.

There are places where every word out of you mouth would be greeted with cheers. This is not one of them.

Now you should probably go. Before someone drops a house on you.

[Maru Kitteh]

133. Why in the ever-loving fuck did you come here if you expected to be called out?

I bought a clue for you since you're short-handed.

Acting in good faith with your bank is NOT "trying to get out of paying a legitimate debt."

[LSK]

164. what the fuck is wrong with you????

The OPs mother wanted to work with the bank, he bank LIED when telling her to stop the payments.

The bank will wind up with a home to sell and a persons life is ruined.

Really, what kind of cold hearted son of a bitch are you? How do people turn into such monsters?

[Tan Gent]

66. I meant (and thought it was obvious) that the mortgagee cannot (obviously) end up with

monies from equity he doesn't own. Sure, he can 'sell' the property but not without SOMEone assuming the mortgage or its equivalent (unless, of course, the buyer pays cash which doesn't necessarily guarantee the seller any liquidity whatsoever...)

It APPEARED from the OP that it could be referencing an 'upside down' situation which is all too common these days. Either way, characterizing a bank or other note holder as a thief for exercising their legal rights is pretty stupid. It might be sleazy but it isn't against the law.

[alstephenson]

190. Yeah, but it SHOULD be against the law.

Sleazy and ILLEGAL. Let me guess, you're one of those folks that just can't figure out why we need more regulation...

[Senator]

65. I think you mean the mortgagee.

The mortgagor is the borrower.

You were saying something about facts?

---

[Tan Gent]

68. I stand corrected, you are right.

Mea culpa.

[Time for change]

81. The problem is that in making that statement, many construe it as implying that you agree with

the laws that allow the powerful to take advantage and destroy the lives of those who don't have the resources to fight back.

You did say that it is a shame, and I believe you were sincere about that. But many of us (myself included) see a great difference between something being legal and something being fair or moral. And that was the point of the OP, not whether it was legal or not.

[Tan Gent]

85. Look, the OP flat out said it is "theft." It is not theft. I happen to think words mean something

and that is why I jumped into the discussion. And I got savaged for pointing out the very difference you just now typed in your reply. It's becoming glaringly clear that there's a tightrope here and anybody who doesn't walk it just exactly and precisely right will get a facefull of shit.

[Time for change]

106. There is theft in the strictly legal sense, and there is theft in the moral sense

In our country, politicians accept huge donations from private corporations, and then in return they write and vote for legislation to favor those corporations -- or even let the corporations draft the legislation themselves. That is legal. And yet, I call it theft.

[Control-Z]

107. One has to BE moral

to understand "theft in the moral sense". I don't think we're gonna find that with this poster. Nice of you to, so patiently, try to explain, though.

[Time for change]

158. Well, that is true. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt

in the hope of getting him to see the point of the OP.

Better to convert a conservative than to get him tombstoned.

But that's usually not possible :).

[Control-Z]

67. Bullcrap

If you were being so sincere you would not have followed your own statement of "fact" with a snarky challenge: 'If it is, just call the police.'

Your lack of good will is overwhelmingly transparent.

[Tan Gent]

70. I see control-z doesn't mean what it used to.

:hi:

[Control-Z]

76. Actually it does.

Unfortunately it doesn't have the power, here on the intertubes, to undo your snide, ugly comment.

[Tan Gent]

84. It was not ugly or snide, it was factual. I'm sorry you hate facts.

I know creationists who think like that.

[Control-Z]

104. Name calling is not allowed on DU.

So STOP IT.

[Wednesdays]

87. The "call the cops" line was what tipped us off.

Got any other good advice?

Oh, and the gist of your responses has been, "Go, bank go! You're on the right side of the law!"

"Bad mortgage payer. Bad, bad. Freeloader trying to get out of paying your mortgage!" :spank:

Rooting for the little guy? Yeah, right.

:eyes:

[Tan Gent]

96. It really does look like someone trying to get out of paying.

If you have some other explanation, I'd love to hear it.
(The banks employ millions of 'little guys', by the way...although I am not or ever was a bank employee, I just think it's ironic how people here have carte blanche to demonize folks who are in the "wrong" business)

[Ignis]

100. Lemme guess: Your solution is "personal responsibility," amirite?

:eyes:

[Maru Kitteh]

137. You are from the area where Brandon Teena was murdered

Are you a homophobic gay-basher?

That makes as much sense as you making the assumptions you have made.

The woman was advised by her bank not make payments so that a restructurement could proceed.
The bank delayed restructurement.
The woman acted in good faith.
The bank refused to continue as they promised.

It really does sound like you < box of hammers.

[Born_A_Truman]

152. What part of "loan modification" didn't you understand?

She clearly said her mother was working on getting her loan modified. As in, different terms she would pay.

[JVS]

38. -1

[Ignis]

55. She said in her OP that real estate law is complex...

And yet you want her to call Johnny Beatcop over to sort it out?

Yeah, a real shame. You're just festering with empathy!

[BlooInBloo]

123. That one has somehow flown under the radar for a little while now.

[Control-Z]

126. I really wish they had added a

"suspected troll" alert feature along with the new unrec. Some are so obvious it's hard to imagine how they manage to fly so low.

[Ignis]

127. Hey, it apparently lived for 5 days before showing its colors.

That's got to make it eligible for some sort of award. I suggest a trophy crafted from a hard, enduring stone of some sort. :)

[Hawkeye-X]

131. Yep. my Freeper radar went off

July 9th 2009, over 100 posts. Yep, smells like one.

[Wednesdays]

159. Maybe not a freeper, but a paid shill for the finance industry

You can tell they're all over the Internet--they were even more common during *'s reign. On message boards full of people drowning in debt, pleading for advice, there were always two or three with the attitude, "Shut the fuck up...you made your own bed, you lie in it. Pay your debt. End of discussion."

There seems to be fewer of them now (and fewer debt collectors), because a lot of them ironically are in that same situation. Still, a few smug assholes remain on the corporate payroll, gleefully lecturing the desperate.

Ice-hearted vultures, nothing less.

[mzmolly]

88. Can you expand on your

absurdity?

[Fire1]

11. There are real estate attorneys, you know. Call one and

at least find out what recourse is available, if any.

[imdjh]

13. bankruptcy stops foreclosure - see a bankruptcy atty.

If it's worth saving. If there is no equity in the home, then it might not be worth saving. BY that I mean from a financial aspect, I would imagine your mother would consider it worth saving for other reasons.

[Fire1]

20. Good one!! n/t

[unblock]

58. depends on the state

[jayfish]

60. I Disagree.

The OP said her Mothers credit was good. The damage done by filing a BR would be much worse than other remedies like a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Just my .02.

Jay

[taught_me_patience]

165. Bankruptcy absolutely does NOT stop foreclosure

in CA. Please ignore this advice and see an attorney.

[AllentownJake]

14. The banks are betting against a recovery

If the banks thought there would be a recovery, there would be modification and re-finance.

[EFerrari]

18. Or they're betting they can steal from little old ladies right now

and enjoy appreciation on their stolen goods. Who is going to stop them?

[AllentownJake]

22. Not just little old ladies

They are doing this to everyone.

The banks believe the country is about to fail and are grabbing as much assets as they possibly can right now.

[EFerrari]

23. That's what it looks like. n/t

[AllentownJake]

25. Commented on this earlier today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6062917&mesg_id=6062917

[Selatius]

145. They probably are ahead of the game as far as beating the economic swings. Ask Goldman Sachs.

They're gonna report record profits, at a time when the nation is now likely in its worst recession since the post-war production shut-down following the end of the last world war.

[Beaverhausen]

16. You might want to call your congressperson's office

They should provide help for these situations.

[EFerrari]

26. Thank you. I have to call everyone I can think of.

[Cerridwen]

27. I have not one damned thing to add.

I just wanted you to know I read this and I hope for your mom (and you) the best possible outcome.

:hug:

[Xithras]

28. Does she still have her payment money?

That's the kicker for most banks. I've known a few people now who went overdue to force a modification, and all of them banked the money they'd have otherwise used to make mortgage payments. Once the refi was worked out, the bank wanted that money as a "settlement" to bring the account current again. In the one case I know of where the modification was refused, the person used the money to pay back the "overdue" payments and brought the account current again.

Does she have the money to settle with the bank and try to bring the account current? Every single agency and company that assists in modifications tells clients to bank that money as insurance and to help complete the modification process, and I've never heard of a bank refusing to allow an overdue account to be brought current.

What bank is it? No need to protect the moneygrubbers IMHO.

[EFerrari]

41. Not all of it. She's going to have to raise some

but this is going so fast, it's like just want her to give up, the f#ckers. They seem to want her to freak out and to give up and just let them walk about with her stuff. Vampires.

[ljm2002]

30. Don't forget...

...if it gets bad and looks like they will foreclose, insist that they produce the note so she can see who she owes the money to.

In at least 40% of cases, the financial institution cannot produce the note. And since it is legally required, it may take months or more to sort out. It's a good way to buy time. I would do it in a heartbeat if a bank was gaming me like that.

Of course, if they do produce the note, then it didn't hurt to ask for it anyway.

[EFerrari]

39. I forgot about that, good call.

[merh]

111. I was going to post that same suggestion.

Most of the time the banks cannot produce the original note.

:hi:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

31. Lizzie:

Call. Menendez. Office.

I know he is not your Senator, but I am sure he will and can help.

On edit: I know for a fact that a call from Menendez' office cause a high incidence of incontinence in banking and mortgage sectors.

[EFerrari]

37. Okay. I'll try it. Thank you.

[Faux pas]

33. Sorry for you Mom's troubles. Kicking this to keep it visible and

rec-ing it too.

[JVS]

36. Do you have a scorched earth exit plan in case things go poorly?

[lindisfarne]

40. Never just do what the banks say without finding reliable outside help to walk you through this

sort of thing. There are free, reliable agencies out there that help people.

You might start with a HUD-approved counseling agency:
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/hcc/hcs.cfm

Other info: http://www.hud.gov/foreclosure/index.cfm

[EFerrari]

43. My mother has been in commercial real estate for 35 years.

If they pulled this on her, it must be happening to a lot of people. They bet she would do it on a handshake and then, they changed the rules.

[dysfunctional press]

45. did she document her back-and-forth with the banks?

who she talked to on what dates and what was said...?

[EFerrari]

47. Probably very well. She must have all her emails, copies of the package

and even notes from phone calls. She's great at that. We've been in court enough times to think of every transaction as how we can show it to a judge.

But, I don't think it will matter because there's no one to show it all to.

[dysfunctional press]

118. is there a state agency that handles these things?

or else you could consult with an attorney- the reputable ones will at least give you some type of consultation as to whether you have a case and/or what your options might be..?

best of luck, in whatever ends up happening...it's getting scary out there.

[Riley18]

46. I am sorry to hear about your mom's problem. There has been good advice

given here. I am trying to get Bank of America to allow me to get the HASP refinance, but they keep putting me off. Perhaps your mom's mortgage is through Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae. If so, they might be able to help. I know my mortgage was put with Freddie Mac even though I pay the bank.

[EFerrari]

49. Thank you so much, everyone, for your support and suggestions.

I've passed on some and will work some myself. Think I need to get a space between being flabbergasted and being helpful.

[Control-Z]

180. And I want to thank the mods

for the troll removal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=242735

I'm sorry you had to put up with his ill will for as long as you did.

[horseshoecrab]

50. k&r to keep this visible

What a travesty this is eferrai.

All good wishes that you will be able to get some help for your mother. I second that you need a lawyer to protect her interests, and fast!


horseshoecrab

[ejpoeta]

51. can't she make them produce the note???

[Stephanie]

52. CA legal assistance:

http://www.foreclosureinfoca.org/RTF1.cfm?pagename=Finding%20Legal%20Help

For San Francisco County residents:

Contact the Anti-Predatory Lending Clinic at the University of San Francisco School of Law at 415-422-6752.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

53. Kick, to keep this up on top -

but one thing you might consider doing is contacting any journalist you know at the biggest newspaper in the area, and seeing if there's a Human Interest Story there. I'd call newspapers throughout the state. I'd also call the NY Times and the Washington Post.

And name the bank. Name the people your mother dealt with.

Document it all, and make your mother's story public.

I'd contact every blogger, I'd write up the story and send it to KO/Countdown and Rachel Maddow, I'd contact AARP, I'd howl about this everywhere I went, and I wouldn't let up.

Noise. Make lots of noise.

But, first, get an attorney.

And good luck to your mom............................

[alstephenson]

191. Yes, please name the bank.

Which one? Inquiring minds want to know... Maybe you can shame them into being responsive.

[Trekologer]

54. Make as much noise as you can

In a previous reply, the OP noted that the mother documented everything (emails, notes of phone calls, etc). That is very good. Now, consulting with a lawyer is probably going to be a must. But first write to the bank, certified mail with return receipt and send a copy standard mail (make sure that you include in the letter "A copy of this has been sent via standard mail") explaining, point by point, what transpired and what you want the bank to do to rectify the matter. Then send a copy to every government official and office you can: state attorney general, consumer affairs office, state banking regulators, FTC, US Attorney General, US Senators, US Representative, and any state elected officials. It is highly likely that at least one of those agencies or officials are going to contact the bank and it won't be a comfortable phone call for the bank. They will likely settle to your satisfaction to avoid the heat coming down on them.

[satya]

57. Here's a link to step by step "Produce the Note" how-to

I haven't done this myself and I'm not a lawyer; I just bookmarked this site for future reference. I'm so sorry your mom is having to go through this.

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2009/06/04/fight-foreclosure-make-em-produce-the-note-4/

[chill_wind]

61. Thank you for posting this- many people should find this valuable

as something to bookmark or pass on as needed.

[EFerrari]

62. Thank you. It's sort of terrifying. I'll pass this on to her.

[Ignis]

101. Very helpful info, thanks for posting it.

If it can help even one person stay in their homes, you've done a mitzvah!

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

59. Noise

is Good.


Kick too!

[Lasher]

63. Sorry you and your mom are having this trouble.

Any advice I might have had has already been contributed by others so I will just offer some moral support.

Lasher

[EFerrari]

64. Thank you, Lasher.

[Hello_Kitty]

69. I'm hearing about this all the time. Typically people are told to put up some money.

You're behind in your mortgage and your bank offers you a modification. They tell you that if you qualify you can have your monthly mortgage reduced and stay in your home. They say you have to send a check for the new mortgage amount along with your paperwork. They take the money and deny the modification. Frankly, I think they never intended to modify the loans in the first place but this little exercise serves two purposes: 1. Makes it look to the gov't like they're making a good faith effort to keep people in their homes. 2. The bank gets to recoup at least some of the money they're not getting from people in default.

[EFerrari]

75. That's exactly the kind of scam we're dealing with. n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

97. Reply #93 was meant for you but I posted it to my own.

Anyways, I think it's bullcrap that they are keeping the money she sent them in addition to taking her house.

[Hello_Kitty]

93. That sucks.

They should not be able to keep any money people send them with their modification application if they have no intention of making good on it.

[Time for change]

72. I'm sorry to hear that

It sounds like a good example of class warfare.

Take advantage of those who don't have the money to fight back.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. The mom I met?

I had a similar experience with a car lease. It was a mess and my car was repossessed. But I got an attorney and I got it back. And no black marks on my credit. It was a freakin nightmare.

Hugs to Mom and to you too :hug:

[EFerrari]

79. Thanks. We're pretty overwhelmed right now.

The worst part is that it's moving so quickly, time is on the bank's side.

If I drop out of this thread for a while, I know you'll understand. :hug:

[girl gone mad]

77. Why are you protecting the bank?

You need to name them.

[mzmolly]

78. As others have said, she needs to call the attorney general in her state quick.

Can she file for bankruptcy protection?

Does the bank name start with a U? YIKES! I thank you for this info E. I'm so sorry about your Mom, but please encourage her to call her AG and see how they advise her.

[EFerrari]

110. Ends with a U.

:(

[Senator]

86. When you say "The Bank" are you sure it's not "The Servicer"

There is much that can be tried if her mortgage has been "securitzed" as most have.

Here's link to a http://www.mortgagelawnetwork.com/california-foreclosures-lenders-must-accept-loan-modifications/">2008 law in California at a good website.

Even if it's a straight loan in non-judicial CA, you can look into making TILA and RESPA claims, they're federal. And don't just assume that because she didn't feel like a victim of predatory lending that she really wasn't. Get a lawyer to see, if affordable, or look into it yourself. It can be a bit complex, but it's not rocket science.

Also, try to find an "activist" lawyer. The website above has some help. Most attorneys have earned their bad reputation as a group and seem to be voluntarily "working for the financial industry," worse yet, many are Republicans.

There are also some "out there" tactics -- like leasing the property to someone else (you?) -- that can put off "eviction." Though I can't say how such a thing might work or not in CA.

---

[EFerrari]

121. I believe it is the bank, not the servicer but that doen't mean

it wasn't bundled at some point.

Thanks for the link. I will go look at that.

[Senator]

135. "Bundled" can often mean bungled

Here's another http://www.huffingtonpost.com/iris-martin/transforming-homeowner-vi_b_204030.html">link to perhaps help. This woman may just be crusading, or just selling books/audits. But her website http://www.yourmortgagewar.com/ has some general information.

--

[scheming daemons]

89. Why is the bank "remaining nameless"??? Name them... expose this shit

[Missy Vixen]

91. Contact your senator

ASAP.

We are currently drafting the letter to Senator Murray about our "homeowner bailout" nightmare. Her office says they're getting good action out of recalcitrant lenders like Chase. (ooh, did I say that? My bad.) We did everything we were told to do, we qualify via both the test at the "Making Home Affordable" website and via the lender, but they are dragging their feet on the paperwork.

Seriously. Contact your mom's senator's office and ask for help.

[lonestarnot]

94. Lemme guess, Wells Fargo?

[EFerrari]

108. It's a tag team somehow, WaMu and Chase.

I don't really see how Chase comes into the picture yet. Going down there tomorrow to look at all the paper.

[Hawkeye-X]

134. Chase owns WAMU after it went bankrupt

In fact, Chase is being the one that's an ass.

No surprises there.

I pulled out of my WAMU account after they futzed around with my checking account with a ChexPay flag. ChexPay says it's WAMU's fault. Funny thing - ever since I opened an account with WAMU, I have not written one single check, and I tend to believe ChexPay in this one.

Whatever. I pulled my money out and went to a credit union.. (they actually ate a frozen account after I threatened them with litigation)

E - if your mother's credit is good, I'd strongly joining an union and getting a new mortgage loan with the right %, and let them fight Chase for you. They have all the necessary resources, and you're a part-owner in the credit union (I think)

Well, whatever comes out of you, you and your mother are in my thoughts.

Hawkeye-X

[EFerrari]

140. Much appreciated. n/t

[horseshoecrab]

138. Chase is taking over WAMU mortgages

WAMU went belly up and Chase is taking over their mortgages all over the country.

Chase must honor deals made by WAMU. They were a contract which Chase assumes,if I understand correctly.

You need good legal representation for your mother.


horseshoecrab

[EFerrari]

141. I see. And, yes, you're right. I may need to go down there to stay

until this is settled somehow because it's just too easy for them to take advantage of her.

I really hate these people.

[horseshoecrab]

161. Sounds like a plan...

Good luck to you and your mother eferrari! Make sure that she has representation. As someone else said, you don't want to go up against someone with representation (Chase and its freaking army of lawyers!) without an attorney of your own.

:hug:


horseshoecrab

[mzmolly]

168. Best wishes E, we'll be thinking of you and your Mom. Perhaps involving local

media would not be a bad idea?

[EFerrari]

179. Thanks, my friend. I don't know if she's up for media at the moment.

We're still looking at a lot of things.

[mzmolly]

184. Totally understood. If you do notify reporters, let them know

she's not interested in having her name/image used of course.

Please keep us posted as our fingers are collectively crossed for your Mom.

[TexasObserver]

99. "and even most judges don't know very much about real estate law"

Judges know real estate law about 100 better than you or your mother, which is one reason she's in this mess. Her mistake was thinking she could fix this herself, and not getting competent professional help when she needed it.

If you want to help your mother, get a lawyer to help her. It might not be too late. The story you have told simply doesn't make economic sense. The bank doesn't want your mother's property back unless she's (1) seriously delinquent, and (2) has no hope of paying the debt she has on the property. They can't be about to take the property unless she has failed to pay her loan.

YOU could get the loan. You could sign on the paper and help her keep her house. Have you tried that? Many adult children are willing to help their parents in these circumstances.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

109. Do you want to save her house?

I've told you the one piece of advice you needed to hear, and your response is belligerence.

I'd tell anyone the same thing, because it's how to go about dealing with a situation such as your mother faces. There are rights she has that you and she will never know unless you consult an attorney. The sooner you do so, the more likely you can preserve those rights.

Try looking up Legal Aid, or call the State Bar and ask for their Pro Bono program.

[johnaries]

112. By any chance was this bank out of Ohio?

I have a friend who is considering a modification.

[EFerrari]

115. Not that I know of. n/t

[sweetloukillbot]

113. I sympathize.

My wife and I are in the process of losing our house - we also put in for a loan mod and were told a month ago we wouldn't get one. At that point our only choice was to let the house go - it was less than a month to foreclosure date. We resigned to our loss and decided to move on.
We found a new place to rent got moved and are starting to settle in. I contacted the bank to find out how we should proceed with letting the house go - and found out that no, in fact our loan mod was still in process, the foreclosure had been suspended and we could find out if we qualified later this week.
During the entire process I called the bank's loan mod officer dozens of times - never got through, never got a return phone call. After the last phone call when I was told "sorry, nothing we can do" I have received no contact from them, no mail, no phone calls, nothing. Yet the day after I was told they wouldn't help was when they suspended the foreclosure and moved forward with the mod processing.
I am so angry right now. They aren't interested in helping people save their homes - now that the economy isn't showing signs of recovery they're looking to land whatever fish they have hooked. My attitude now is they can get $50K for the house that I paid over $200K for when they auction it - my credit is decimated, big deal. I can rebuild it.

[EFerrari]

117. Oh, no. I'm so sorry.

That's sounds just like how my mom has been treated during this whole debacle.

[sweetloukillbot]

122. The worst part is the way we've been treated...

The two-faced lying from the banks - the predatory loan-mod specialists that came out of the woodwork. The predatory lenders have a new scam - I'm sure many of the same people who sold those shitty loans in the first place are the ones now offering to fix it "if you'll only pay me $2500 up front we'll get this taken care of." The one idiot we spoke with even suggested taking out another loan to pay off the mortgage and then refinancing that!

[EFerrari]

124. They're the white collar mafia. I'm sure the scumbucket handling my mom

had zero intention of ever modifying the loan.

[Senator]

125. Something to consider.

I realize your mental health may be best served by moving on, but your rights under TILA survive even after foreclosure. What really gave me pause though was that reversal just prior to foreclosure. They may not be able to prove they have the right. You might want to look into the "produce the note" phenomenon.

--

[sweetloukillbot]

128. What do you mean by Produce the Note phenomenon?

I'll look into it but I'm not sure what you mean.
I admit - I was floored when I called them today. Literally we moved out this past weekend knowing our foreclosure date was tomorrow. And apparently they reversed their decision to stall the foreclosure a day after speaking with me, without notifying us of the change.
I honestly don't know that we could afford to move back at this point - between deposits and whatever fees they're looking to impose - assuming they make an offer that's remotely acceptable - we might not be able to afford to go back...

[sweetloukillbot]

129. NM - just saw it up thread.... n/t

[merh]

142. There was a thread on this some time ago.

My understanding is the banks must have the original note to be able to foreclose, they have to be in possession of it. If they don't have it, they are out of luck.

[merh]

114. Sorry this is happening to your mom.

I have no words of advice, many have suggested what I would suggest.

I will pmail you the name of a friend that practices in your city. Maybe you can talk to him.

Sending cyber hugs :hug: :hug: :hug:

:grouphug:

[EFerrari]

116. Thanks, merh.. I can't even think right now

but appreciate very much all the great suggestions on this thread. It will work out somehow. :hug:

[merh]

120. Check you pmail

and be sure your mom does what is suggested in post #30

[PufPuf23]

119. I'm sorry and hope for the best

Our system is rigged. No need to elaborate.

As a life long Giants fan, I am enamored with Sandoval. ;o)

[grasswire]

130. why protect the bank by not naming it?

It's time to let it all hang out. Stop protecting the thuggery.

[EFerrari]

132. The bank is Washington Mutual. I didn't want to say anything earlier

because I didn't trust my mouth.

[Hawkeye-X]

136. Ah. Mutual of Juarez.

[TexasObserver]

139. Here's a compilation of good advice from posters in this thread:

Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. So, they encouraged her to default?

She needs a lawyer - and fast...............
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


flvegan (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #4

19. They lied to her.

Agree with TL above, she should see a lawyer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

spotbird (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message

2. It's hard to tell what happened from your post,

but you may want to call your state Attorney's General office.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

chimpymustgo (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6

44. Also call your state's attorney. And the consumer protection agency.

Good luck. Effing crooks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fire1 (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 07:01 PM
Response to Original message

11. There are real estate attorneys, you know. Call one and

at least find out what recourse is available, if any.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

imdjh (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message

13. bankruptcy stops foreclosure - see a bankruptcy atty.]

If it's worth saving. If there is no equity in the home, then it might not be worth saving. BY that I mean from a financial aspect, I would imagine your mother would consider it worth saving for other reasons.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xithras (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message

28. Does she still have her payment money?

That's the kicker for most banks. I've known a few people now who went overdue to force a modification, and all of them banked the money they'd have otherwise used to make mortgage payments. Once the refi was worked out, the bank wanted that money as a "settlement" to bring the account current again. In the one case I know of where the modification was refused, the person used the money to pay back the "overdue" payments and brought the account current again.

Does she have the money to settle with the bank and try to bring the account current? Every single agency and company that assists in modifications tells clients to bank that money as insurance and to help complete the modification process, and I've never heard of a bank refusing to allow an overdue account to be brought current.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephanie (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message

52. CA legal assistance:

Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 08:25 PM by Stephanie
http://www.foreclosureinfoca.org/RTF1.cfm?pagename=Find...

For San Francisco County residents:

Contact the Anti-Predatory Lending Clinic at the University of San Francisco School of Law at 415-422-6752.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senator (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message

86. When you say "The Bank" are you sure it's not "The Servicer"

There is much that can be tried if her mortgage has been "securitzed" as most have.

Here's link to a 2008 law in California at a good website.

Even if it's a straight loan in non-judicial CA, you can look into making TILA and RESPA claims, they're federal. And don't just assume that because she didn't feel like a victim of predatory lending that she really wasn't. Get a lawyer to see, if affordable, or look into it yourself. It can be a bit complex, but it's not rocket science.

Also, try to find an "activist" lawyer. The website above has some help. Most attorneys have earned their bad reputation as a group and seem to be voluntarily "working for the financial industry," worse yet, many are Republicans.

There are also some "out there" tactics -- like leasing the property to someone else (you?) -- that can put off "eviction." Though I can't say how such a thing might work or not in CA.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TexasObserver (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-14-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #105

109. Do you want to save her house?

Edited on Tue Jul-14-09 10:49 PM by TexasObserver
I've told you the one piece of advice you needed to hear, and your response is belligerence.

I'd tell anyone the same thing, because it's how to go about dealing with a situation such as your mother faces. There are rights she has that you and she will never know unless you consult an attorney. The sooner you do so, the more likely you can preserve those rights.

Try looking up Legal Aid, or call the State Bar and ask for their Pro Bono program.

[tomm2thumbs]

155. that was neighborly of ya - good job

[annm4peace]

143. I work in Mortgages but not a loan officer.

I haven't heard of any 1 way or 10 way working.. meaning.. throw the shit on the wall and see what sticks.

#1. I think there are changes every week so check out the HUD website. What didn't work last week might work this week. It crazy out there and rules are changing all the time.

#2. Call her House of Rep's office and check their website to see what they say to do. If your Rep is a jackass Republican or Corporatecrate.. then call the nearest progressive dem.

#3. If there is a Mortgage Insurance Company that is on the loan then call them and ask them to help with pressuring the Lender on the Motification (or Short Sale).

#4. Refuse to leave.. have a plan of where she will go if police come and take her out.. and get rid of stuff in the house you don't know.. then tell her to get all her friends and stay in that house. Make it hard for them to force her out. Call the media.

[TwixVoy]

146. I have ZERO sympathy IF the situation is the way it sounds

from your limited info here is what I gather based on your responses to others....

Your mom COULD and was ABLE to make her payments. However, she thought it would be nice to take advantage of the loan modification program if she could only find a way to qualify. (a program which was designed to help people who are not at all ABLE to make payments)

So she decided that she would stop paying (even though she was ABLE to make payments) in hopes it would force them to modify her loan.

Problem is they didn't play that game and foreclosed.

So basically she was able to pay and CHOSE to default intentionally in hopes to use a program designed for people who actually needed help. The plan failed.

Too bad. There are plenty of people who don't have the luxury of CHOOSING not to pay who actually need that help, and somehow I doubt she would be crying for the person who actually NEEDED that help if her plan had been successful and that person didn't get it because she chose to game the system.

[TexasObserver]

147. With ability to make payments and good credit, one can get a lower interest rate refinance.

There's parts of the story that don't seem to make sense. If one can pay, but has let several months go without paying, one should have those funds in reserve. If one can pay, and one wants a loan remodification, one can get either do that, or simply shop for a new loan with a new lender.

This year, many people who were in loans at 6-8% got into refinances under 5%. I personally helped two family members do just that.

If she has (1) the ability to make current payments and (2) good credit, there's no reason the loan for the OP's mother could not be moved to a dozen different banks or other lenders. This story only makes sense if the OP's mother cannot make her payments, has fallen far behind in them, cannot make them up, and cannot qualify for a new loan.

There has been a wealth of good information in this thread, and I hope those who read it are getting that benefit. I view a thread such as this one as an opportunity to help all those who might be similarly situated as the OP's mother, or know someone who is. My goal is to see that good information is disseminated to the posters here.

Sympathy does not help persons such as the OP's mother, but good advice may. It starts with taking a cold, hard look at the true economics of the situation. This sounds like a standard loan in default for nonpayment, a lack of qualifying for a loan remodification program, and the default notices that would follow such failures. It sounds like a loan where the debt is in excess of the fair market value. Only the ability to pay the notes and/or get new financing can help such a person save their home, even if they file bankruptcy or seek an injunction to stop foreclosure.

[TwixVoy]

149. Per the OPs response to another poster

she WAS able to make payments, but CHOSE not to do so after the bank told her that the program was only for people who could not make payments.

So she (somehow) took that to mean that she should stop making payments that she could make, and now the OP wants to make the nut ball claim that the bank "tricked" her in to not paying by telling her that.

So now she may actually be at the point that she is so far behind she can not pay, but only because she tried to scam her way in to a program she didn't qualify for by making the CHOICE to stop paying for several months.

The only people I feel bad for here are the ones who actually NEEDED that help, and had to wait longer/couldn't get it because people like the OPs mom were clogging the system for weeks/months trying to get on a program they didn't really need. There are hundreds of thousands of people out there that actually NEED HELP TODAY that are having to wait months for banks just to process the paperwork for them because jackasses like this are taking resources trying to game the system.

[tbyg52]

192. Thank you. I am rec'ing this thread because of your response. nt

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwixVoy]

150. Not smart to make shit up when your words are written down

"The bank said that they couldn't do a remodification until it went into default.
And while it's in default, you can't make payments."

Boo-fucking hoo. Try to justify it all you want, but her defaults per your own words were pre-meditated and planned in order to force something she wasn't qualified to get.

In the end she was turned down for the program. You know why? Because the numbers said she didn't qualify. End of story.

You deserve the venom. Someone who actually needed that help had to wait longer/didn't get it because of this little game. But I doubt you give a fuck about them while you seek out sympathy that your plan didn't go as scheduled.

And I am glad you thought you were above everyone else to have the luxury of "not waiting until it was an emergency" when you know full fucking well you don't qualify until and IF it gets to that so you chose to go and try to create the apperance of that emergency. There are people who actually need that help NOW who ARE CURRENTLY IN THAT EMERGENCY FOR REAL, and they don't have time to wait while they screw around with your BS application for "help" while you CHOOSE not to pay.

[woo me with science]

157. I was hoping the OP would clarify this,

because it's sounding murky to me, too. There are a lot of people who really need these programs.

[EFerrari]

170. Mom needed that program. She didn't "game" anything. Jesus. n/t

[woo me with science]

176. Excuse me. I never used the word, "game,"

nor did I accuse your mother of anything unethical. I merely said that the situation was confusing to me, given what you wrote in the OP. To be fair, you made it sound like she was capable of making the payments but chose not to, and that her credit is good. That would make reasonable people wonder why she needed the program, especially given that there are many, many people out there who CAN'T make payments and are in desperate need of help like this.

Instead of jumping down people's throats for having questions about an OP you wrote, you might re-read your words and see if the questions make sense from someone with limited information. The tone of my post was civil, and I was assuming that there was more to explain the story. Now, however, you just look defensive.

[EFerrari]

177. As posted early in the thread, she did exactly as directed by her lender.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

181. Since she stopped making the payments,

I am guessing that she banked the money she would have used to make those payments. It sounded like a rental property from which your mother was deriving income, so if she kept collecting rents, or whatever the situation is, she banked the money in anticipation of making lower payments after the loan was re-worked.

Why not just pay the amount due and go back to how it was before all this?

That would be a simple solution. Why not do this?

[EFerrari]

183. Because they're running out the clock on her.

She went in for a modification because the loan wasn't working. They delayed until she had no time to go elsewhere. She didn't bank it all and will have to raise some. That might be all right but, the bottom line is, the bank wants this property. It's easy pickings for them. All they have to do is not take her calls and delay their paper. Easy.

That's the part that makes me really mad. I don't even know if she now has time to file some kind of stay or anything. I'm trying to get up the courage to call her so we can run down the options. But, as you know, the deck is pretty much stacked right now.

If she raised the whole amount today or tomorrow, maybe she could make it out. In other days, maybe she could have done that. It's much harder to do these days. I don't know every detail but those are the broad strokes.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

185. They can't refuse to take her payments,

made in good faith. So she could try scaring up the whole amount, and getting in there, in person, and making the payment.

They may refuse to take it, but the memorialization of her good faith effort to pay would go a long way in establishing her continued interest in the property. She should have gotten an attorney today, or sooner. If she's been in the business, she must know a lot of real estate lawyers.

There are some big details missing here, which makes it hard to understand. But paying up is the easiest, most obvious way to end all this.................................

[EFerrari]

186. That's all she can do, try to find the money and pay it.

They will try to block that, if they run true to form. I wonder how much real estate these people are gobbling up right now.

RE lawyers are really expensive and if she's asked for a retainer, that's it, it's not a go. Well, let's see how we do.

[tomm2thumbs]

154. absolutely get a lawyer - it is like pit bulls, when the other guy gets one, you have to get one

in this case at least, if you are forced into the pit with the other guy with a pit bull - which it sounds like has happened

[woo me with science]

156. This situations feels murky to me, and I'm not sure I understand it,

but I agree with the posters who said that you should consult an attorney.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

163. Is this an income or investment property or her principle residence?

I ask because in your post 21 you refer to "income that is providing for her" from the house and you also mentioned that your mother has been in commercial real estate for a number of years.

I don't think there is too much help out there for investment properties which accounted for almost 25% of the real estate bubble. This is compounded by the fact that money to purchase investment real estate is severely curtailed now with MUCH higher L to V requirements - maybe that is why the modification didn't work. They should have told her upfront if that is the case.

Side note, if someone's parent can no longer afford a principle residence but has equity, they should look into a reverse mortgage. These USED to horror stories years ago but the current ones fold the closing costs into the loan and no longer do things like equity sharing. They can be a Godsend for many elderly homeowners.

Regardless of the situation, I am very sorry for your Mom and hope that something is worked out. If it is an investment property, the tenants as well as your mom will be hurt in a foreclosure.

[EFerrari]

171. She tried to get a reverse mortgage first but it was exactly at the time

when there were NO loans at all. That's when she applied for the modification.

[redqueen]

167. Call around to a few local TV news stations.

See if they have a consumer protection type of journalist on board. We have one here that has dealt with stuff like this in the past, and they get results.

Stuff like this makes good TV... worth a shot, anyway.


Good luck. :pals:

[kjackson227]

169. Call you local ACORN office, IMMEDIATELY! This is their specialty.

[blueamy66]

172. I'm assuming that "the bank" owns your mother's loan...

Is that correct?

I called a "loan mod company" and was told to withhold payments to my mortgage co to make it look like I coulnd't make the payments. Um, no way Jose.

So I called my mortgage co....and they have their own mod program. I have not been totally approved, but have made the smaller payment at the lower interest rate for 2 months now. Once I pay the third month, they make their final decision. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I can't understand a mortgage co asking a client to not make payments. Not saying that you aren't being truthful...it just seems odd.

[EFerrari]

174. I don't understand it either. But that was their requirement for this program.

And if you look up thread, other lenders seem to be pulling the same scam.

[FlyingSquirrel]

173. Why should the bank name remain nameless?

This is the kind of thing that can only be rectified with bad publicity for the bank.

By the way, I drive around with two bumper stickers declaring that "Chase Bank is a PREDATORY LENDER." Every little bit helps.

[jaded_old_cynic]

182. Does she have a foreclosure date?

If they haven't already foreclosed on her, i know of a private company that can help her. They charge a fee, but if it will save her home.... I used to work for these people and they are legit. Here is their website. www.fidelityhomesavers.com Good luck to your mom!
Peace.

[KoKo]

188. Just talked to a friend in FLA last night...Same thing with her...good credit history

but the Condo she bought in '05 is under water. She has two kids who bought houses (both work and had good jobs at that point) and now they are living in neighborhoods where there are foreclosures and empty Condo's and Houses. Her lawyer told her to "walk away"....leave keys on counter and walk away.
She's reluctant to do this because it will hurt her credit rating ...but he says: "It doesn't matter...there are too many folks like you and your two adult children all over the country." He thinks Congress will have to act to put legislation that limits the Bankruptcy penalty to much less than 7 years given what's going on all over the country.

Her son and daughter-in-law applied for Loan Modification in March...and haven't been able to get any relief from a re-set of 2,0000 a month in payments. They say their loan officer keeps putting them off while they are trying to pay the bill. He's in danger of losing his job and she's a teacher and doesn't even know if she will have her job in the Fall. Two small children. They are thinking of walking away and just getting a rental and taking the 7 year bad credit rating until they get on their feet again when the jobs situation sorts out.

[sandnsea]

189. Attorney General

He needs to know this is what is happening. There are also state mortgage advisors, through the HUD web site, contact one of them too.

I understand most of these refi's and short sales aren't going through, they're just dragging people out with them to help put off the loss on the books. If your mom isn't upside down, maybe hers is a property they want for their books.