Thrift Store Purchases Could Hurt Cardholders Credit Card Companies Track Purchases At Thrift Store

[Shallah Kali]

http://www.wesh.com/money/20000575/detail.html

A government probe revealed some credit card companies have been tracking purchases in bargain stores to determine if customers may be in financial trouble and pose a credit risk.

That means shoppers like Kelly Mawhinney, who likes to pick up used clothing for her family, could have her credit limit capped, interest rate raised or suffer a bad credit score.

snip

Kosmas said a new credit card law signed by President Barack Obama in May will help crack down on banks.

"Some of their practices were inappropriate, and now we've made them illegal," Kosmas said.

In the short term, consumer credit counselors said cardholders should ease up on credit purchases.

"Cash certainly is one way to get around having the eye of the creditor looking over your shoulder all the time," Consumer Credit Counseling Service spokesman Richard Schram said.

[MadHound]

1. Cash is the best means to go,

Cut up the cards and go to a cash only basis. Between cash, check and debit, you don't need a CC, at least for ordinary expenses. I've been card free all my life, one of the better decisions I ever made.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Did that a few years ago,

and I can't believe how much simpler life is now.

Credit cards have become weapons of mass destruction for most Americans, and we all really need to pull back.

Have you ever seen that commercial where a woman is talking about having had an asthma attack, spent several days in the hospital, and then she says, "Where was I gonna get $17,000? I couldn't do it. I just couldn't."

Then the script goes on to talk about how she was able to work out a payment plan with her credit card company!!!!!!

And the woman appears again, looking so happy.

It's a monstrosity of a production, from every angle...............................

[Horse with no Name]

4. I was "cash-only" before "cash-only" was cool

:D

[Javaman]

93. Meh, cash is for suckers...

I was for bartering before bartering was cool!

I'll give you some string for that hamburger!

:)
Cheers

[John Q. Citizen]

3. How do you rent a car?

[MadHound]

6. Debit card, or check n/t

[billyoc]

8. Yes, I've had this discurssion before on DU, some car rental companies won't take them.

Do you remember which one does?

[MadHound]

10. I've gone with Enterprise generally n/t

[billyoc]

12. Cool, thanks.

[Horse with no Name]

17. Enterprise will take checks

with a deposit and debit cards.

[WolverineDG]

63. Can't book online with Enterprise & a debit card

but you can do that directly from the rental counter. I accidentally gave them my debit card the last time instead of my credit card I used to make the reservation & it was okay. BTW, the website doesn't ask for the cc number, so I suppose you could fake it. :shrug:

dg

[Hannah Bell]

57. They won't rent here without a credit card.

[MadHound]

60. Don't know what to say

I've rented cars on both coasts and many places in between, and have had no problem with Enterprise:shrug:

[DKRC]

29. Hertz rented us a car 2 years ago with debit + insurance cards

Transaction just as smooth as if I'd reserved with a cc.

[Webster Green]

25. You can get them without a credit card.

You have to sniff out the places that will do it though.

I've never had a credit card and don't plan to ever get one.

Cash works great!

[msanthrope]

62. Philly car share, or ZipCar. n/t

[Shallah Kali]

9. I only use a credit card to build a credit history.

Going cash only left me with none so I couldn't even get a credit card at my credit union. A good friend of mine had to cosign her son's mortgage because like me he was cash only so in spite of making nearly 3x his Mom's income she had better credit than him. So for now I use it to buy groceries a couple times a month and pay it off in full each time.

[MadHound]

13. That's a fairly common myth

Credit score is not just about what you borrow, but your financial situation in general. Do you pay your bills on time, are you working and what's your salary, that sort of thing.

I've never had a credit card, and my credit score is excellent. One of the tricks I did was take out a small loan(for a moped at the time) when I was eighteen and paid it back before due. When I bought a house, I didn't need a cosigner and had no problem.

[John Q. Citizen]

37. You borrowed money for a moped. How it that differnt from any unsecured loan?

(Which is what a credit card is)

If you share rent and utilities, then often the bills aren't even in your name even though you pay your share.

I agree that there are a lot of people who shouldn't have credit cards and get into big trouble with them. But their are others who pay off their balances each month and find them very convenient and far less expensive for a whole number of reasons.

Using a credit card doesn't make someone less moral, less thrifty, or less smart than not using a credit card.

It doesn't necessarily make someone smarter either. It depends on personal situations much more than on an assumption either way that credit cards are good or bad.

[DireStrike]

41. That's not true

My mom is 56 years old, been paying bills on time all her life. She has "no credit". Makes it very hard to get loans.

[MadHound]

51. OK, I'm fucking lying and don't know what the fuck I'm talking about

And this house that I bought, the second one I took out a mortgage for in my life, it's a fucking figment of my imagination because I certainly couldn't have gotten a good credit score without having a credit card in my life.

Don't call me a liar, don't say that what I'm talking about isn't true. I've lived my life, these things happen as I stated. I don't know what the fuck went down with your mom, perhaps she hasn't been as diligent about matters as you would like to think.

[Hannah Bell]

58. I don't know about your situation, but i originally got a card because i also had

"no credit" in my thirties, despite paying all my bills on time, etc.

[DireStrike]

70. My experience directly contradicts yours

Maybe you took out some things that count as credit that you are not aware of.

[durablend]

74. I agree he's full of it (or just misinformed)

Things like income and occupation have ZERO bearing on your credit score. ZERO. Lenders may (and usually DO) take those things into account when you're applying for a loan, but that magic FICO number doesn't care one whiff about it.

[Lorien]

89. Care to back that up with a link, because having a six

figure income-but never a credit card- sure gave me a perfectly lovely credit score back in the Clinton years. I bought both a house and car with no cosigner and nothing more than a history of a good income and prompt bill payments (hint: banks always check your payment history with your utility provider).

[MadHound]

96. Oh, now you go from basically calling me a liar to treating me like a small child

You really know how to make friends and influence people, don't you?:eyes:

I would think that I would be aware of any "things" that I took out that involved credit or debt, especially since, other than the initial loan long ago, and two mortgages, I've avoided all other credit like the plague.

Your experience may directly contradict mine, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong, that I'm lying, that I'm forgetful, or that it didn't happen. It means that my experience was simply different from yours. If you choose not to believe that, whatever, I really don't care. But please stop trying to pass off that difference as my being either untruthful or childlike, it really pisses me off, OK.

[DireStrike]

97. That's because you're acting like an idiot

You accuse me of calling you a liar because my experience differs from yours.

That's right, I just made up what actually happened in my life to slight you.

If you dont want shit you say to be contradicted, maybe you should make sure it's true before you act like gospel comes from your mouth.

[Lorien]

88. I didn't have a credit card before I bought my home either.

and I had an excellent credit score back then. No cosigner and I got a good interest rate too. You're certainly not lying, because I've had the same experiences! The CC companies brainwash people into believing that they *must* carry one of their products to take out a large loan, and it's simply not true.

[Lorien]

87. My mother is 68 and has never had a credit card and has an excellent

credit score. What MadHound says is true.

[DireStrike]

99. Welp not in our case.

I guess the credit card companies/credit bureaus/massive consumer market finding apparatus forgot about her.

Not even bad credit, which would be the case if she had missed a few bills or whatever, or if she had a bad salary, or any other metric you want to use.

NO credit. At 50+ years old. More than 10 years divorced and living fully under her own name, paying bills.

[yodoobo]

84. credit scoring doesn't look at your income or employment

Its entirely about your debt, available credit and payment history.

[Ilsa]

5. I cancelled a credit card I wasn't using yesterday. The employee

of the major bank begged me to keep it. I was very nice to her but for a moment I felt like screaming "I don't want IT!!!"

I'm tired of my buying habits being dissected.

[Gormy Cuss]

21. I use my credit card carefully and probably buy 60% of my items with cash.

It's nobody's business how I spend my money. I realize that I can't stop companies from profiling me based on their own data but I believe that we all SHOULD have the right to prevent them from using microlevel data for profiling. So much of it seems based more on somebody's hunch rather than supported data.

The idiots who decided that thrift store purchases are an indicator of someone in financial distress should be fired. Most of my friends with excellent credit profiles (good paying jobs, money in savings,no credit card debt) shop at thrift stores and dollar stores.

[John Q. Citizen]

38. I put everything possible on my credit card, especially big ticket items like property taxes.

And then I get free airline tickets with the miles.

[Gormy Cuss]

46. So profiling you is very easy for them.

You do understand that is one of the incentives for the credit card vendor, right?

[John Q. Citizen]

59. Yes, they know I pay property taxes now, apparently. So does anyone who wants to know.

It's public knowledge obtainable at the county courthouse

[Gormy Cuss]

67. I thought you wrote that you put everything you can on the credit card.

That's well beyond public records like your property taxes.

[John Q. Citizen]

68. They also know that I pay for utilities and buy gasoline. And food. But I bet they could have

guessed that anyway.

[eridani]

47. My brother does that too. He even bought a new car with 3 credit cards once

Lots of free travel out of that deal.

[Nay]

48. So, if I have a family income over $100,000 and shop at a thrift store

then I can end up with a crappy credit score? Well, guess what? That's why I use a credit card very rarely--mostly for gas fillups. Cash on the barrelhead 90% of the time. Of course, that's why they're going to try to get rid of cash in the near future.

[John Q. Citizen]

61. I didn't make the thrift store claim. Someone else did. I shop at thrift stores regularly.

So far, I haven't seen a problem?

Have you?

[Gormy Cuss]

66. It's pretty absurd, isn't it?

One of the other *brilliant* assumptions made by profilers is that if you're charging drinks in a bar you may be under stress and a greater risk for default. What stunningly naive biases.

[Rex]

No social engineering going on here, just business models

to help the customer have a better experience using someone else's money and paying them back for being so nice.

[RB TexLa]

7. "cardholders should ease up on credit purchases"

People should not be purchasing anything right now.

[On the Road]

14. Now THAT Would Help the Economy §

[RB TexLa]

18. Have you seen the savings rate in North America? Particularly in the US

[On the Road]

20. I Understand That

and people should not be buying things they can't afford. But by definition, no one buying anything puts us all out of a job and the government without taxes.

[RB TexLa]

22. That's hardly a personal responsibility.

[Occulus]

24. Ever made an online purchase?

You are personally responsible for your use taxes.

I'll have to figure that out the next time I file- I've been making purchases on Steam lately, and Valve doesn't charge a tax on their online purchases.

In other words, in my case (and a FUCKTON of other people all over the world; seriously, Steam is very very popular), paying my taxes is very much a personal responsibility.

Michigan badly needs the tax dollars. I'll be happy to figure it into my return, because I am personally responsible and I do live here.

[RB TexLa]

30. That doesn't mean you have a personal responsibility to spend money to help an economy

[omega minimo]

11. Fuck em if they can't take a joke --------------- Rec +4

They know people shop at thrift stores to avoid giving corporate vampires more of their money than necessary. Trying to scare people out of it?

Pathetic. :thumbsdown:

[Merlot]

27. Exactly. Buying at a thrift store gives the profit to the store

not the big box stores. Also, I think in some states used goods are not charged sales tax.

Same for buying on craigslist. Helps out the local economy, and real people, not corporations.

[mitchum]

39. THAT is the correct answer

[omega minimo]

43. One way to not give them more of our money than necessary, before they took over our government

:hi:

[bedazzled]

53. i work at a thrift store, and you are exactly right

we have quite a few customers who are
interested in not "feeding the beast" and
also in recycling for the health of the
planet.

there are a lot fewer of them, unfortunately,
than there are folks looking for stupid
louis vuitton bags on the cheap.

[SoCalDem]

15. Local theater companies will have to start using cash

When I was in theater, our props departments scoured EVERY 2nd hand store we could find :(

[KT2000]

16. Just another reason to raise rates

absolutely absurd.
Credit ratings are ruling this society and it is ridiculously arbitrary.

[demigoddess]

44. i have a feeling that credit card companies may not be able to charge the

thrift stores that 5% or so that the retail stores have to kick back to the credit card companies. They must have that grandfathered in years ago and now the credit card companies are feeling the pinch and want every buck they can find. they are also raising interest rates, lowering credit limits and canceling some cards. We even had our limit lowered and my husband was pleased. We only use ours for convenience and pay off in a month and so they make no money from us.
Ps. I have cut back expenditures in every way i can. I am sick of giving money to stores that give us cheaper and cheaper junk every year. Even the grocery stores are cutting out my favorite items, so I buy only what I have to. We've cut back on snacks and expensive treats.

[greguganus]

82. I wonder abt the taxes paid since the 2 stores I visit are Salvation Army & Vietnam Vets. n/t

[slampoet]

19. Is THIS why i haven't been able to get decent credit for 20 years? I will sue them to HELL!!

90% of my household is Thrift store. Is this why my bank feels like they can fuck with me?


Those heartless fuckers!

[Skittles]

33. it makes no sense, slampoet

to me, you're displaying a sense of financial prudence, not risky behavior

[slampoet]

36. Financial Prudence is what get punished under this system now. You ought to know by now.

This is truly effed up

[Skittles]

42. very true

radical change is needed

[pinniped]

23. Cash is not always the best option.

Some sleazy stores will hold your cash for 30 days or longer if you have the nerve to return something.

I guess the easiest thing to do is avoid these sleazy stores altogether.

[Horse with no Name]

28. Under what auspices would anyone have to hold CASH?

Credit cards, checks, sure but cash? How do you leave a cash deposit on cash?
Sorry but I shopped thrifty for years and never had this happen.:shrug:

[pinniped]

45. Sorry, I was referring to some sleazy electronics store's hidden return policy.

They're pulling some 30 days to process a return BS on an unopened product paid for with cash.

Needless to say, I'm never going to buy anything at Video Only again.

I wouldn't recommend these clowns to anyone.

[lindisfarne]

26. Cash is only best option if you can't count on yourself to only spend what you can afford & pay off

in full when bill comes due. Debit cards don't have the consumer protections that credit cards come with; many do not realize that (some banks add some promises to their debit card, but they can take those away whenever they want). Debit cards also mean you have to keep close track of your bank balance - and watch for those "authorization hold" which can exceed what you spent but take up to 30 days to be removed.

See for example
http://www.consumer-action.org/english/articles/understanding_debit_cards/

[Adsos Letter]

31. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:wtf:

What to even say to this?

A Corporate financial culture/structure that punishes thrift and the thoughtful, forward-looking use of finite resources.

I haven't smoked anything in 30 years, but stuff like this makes me wanna' smoke a bowl and go sit on the beach...

[Skittles]

32. this is such utter fucking bullshit

I've shopped many times at thrift stores to pick up wonderful children's clothes for soldiers to give to impoverished Iraqi and Afghan kids - the idea they'd penalize me for this makes me ill. Good thing I've always used a debit card. *GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*

[omega minimo]

34. You think they don't track debit cards?

:shrug:

[Skittles]

35. well it certainly has not hurt my credit

[wroberts189]

40. We need new privacy rights against purchase tracking. nt

[RebelOne]

49. I just had a Chapter 13 bankruptcy discharged in April.

Credit cards were what got me in trouble. My philosophy now is that if I can't afford to pay cash for something, I can't afford to buy it. I will never have another credit card. I did very well for the past three years with no credit cards.

[madokie]

50. So happy to say I've never used the plastic

have a debit card for when I need cash and the bank isn't open other than that no plastic

[bedazzled]

52. i'm out of luck. the only places i shop are supermarkets and thrift stores

actually, there is a thrift store in west palm
beach that doesn't take credit cards at all.
it's run by AMVETS and it's terrific. smart of
them not to take credit cards, more money for
the vets. problematic for the shopper, though,
if you don't carry more than a few bucks cash.

[tabbycat31]

54. there's 2 thrift stores near me that I go to regularly

more to give them stuff than to buy stuff, but I found bargains (shirts for $1) for my 2 cousins last week there.

IIRC neither took credit cards. These are local charities (Family and Childrens Servies of M County, M County SPCA) and not major thrift store chains (ie Goodwill)

[raccoon]

55. My local news did a story on that. Rec'd. nt

[Odin2005]

56. Evil bastards!

Only in a sick, demented society is prudence and thrift considered a bad thing.

[charlie]

64. Well, here's another one

for the "if you're doing nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about" types who dismiss concerns about surveillance society.

[rd_kent]

65. Since when did credit become a right?

Sure, on the surface, it sounds horrible that a credit card company would track and limit those who shop at a discount store as it MAY be an indicator they are low or out of money. But credit card businesses are in the business of making money. We may not like it, but that is what they do. Credit is not a right, but a privilege, that can be granted or taken away by the credit issuer.
Relying on credit is a big reason we got in this mess in the first place; our spending priorities are out of whack! If people only spent what they earned, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I'm am not saying that credit companies have no culpability here, but the PRIMARY responsibility rests on the shoulders of those who put themselves in this position. Sure, there are exceptions, people who had accidents, got laid off, etc, but the vast majority abused their credit and lived beyond their means.

[hunter]

69. Most people with bad credit got there by misfortune.

Medical bills are a big one. You have a serious illness, a bad accident, you can't work for awhile, and your credit score plunges toward zero and maybe you go bankrupt.

Naive kids buying more electronics or clothing than they can reasonably afford usually start out with small credit limits which are peanuts to the credit card companies. The credit card companies don't care, they just charge the kids who are minor screw ups 30% interest and thirty-five dollar late fees.

For a big credit crash you have to be making serious money, have good credit, and bam!!!, your numbers up, you get laid off, a drunk driver runs a red light and T-bones your car, the doctor tells you it's cancer. And then the credit card company is out the same amount of money they'd lose from a hundred careless 21 year olds.

The credit card industry itself is irrational, irresponsible economics. The industry's golden goose is dying by their own hand. More and more people don't want to do business with them, even people with good credit. The credit card companies are already treading in the same putrid water the payday loan sharks swim in, and pretty soon now, if they haven't already, they will become the same.

[rd_kent]

77. Again, I think that is the exception

Sure, there are many who got bad credit through misfortune, but I would argue that most got there of there own accord. Money spent on too many luxury items is the key reason.

[hunter]

80. 60% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills.

The big lie of the credit card industry is that their problem customers were "irresponsible." But the fact is that most of these customers got into trouble through no fault of their own. The shit simply fell out of the sky and landed on them.

[rd_kent]

91. 60%? Really?

Can you provide facts on that?

[hunter]

95. I'll give you this, but I won't dance with your straw man.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills

[rd_kent]

98. Wow! I am amazed!

Thanks for the link, I have been educated.

[hunter]

101. Original citation and link, for your further education...

Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study
David U. Himmelstein, Deborah Thorne, Elizabeth Warren, Steffie Woolhandler

The American journal of medicine 5 June 2009 (Article in Press DOI: 10.1016/j.amjmed.2009.04.012)

http://www.amjmed.com/article/PIIS0002934309004045/fulltext

[rd_kent]

102. C'mon now, I conceded

no need to be smug about it. :)
I;m man enough to admit when Im wrong.

[hunter]

103. I'm cranky today.

:hi:

[Senator]

71. Since when did credit become a privilege?

Credit is a private contract between 2 parties. Both of which seek to gain benefits from the agreement. Both sides also have explicit and implied responsibilities under the agreement. Both sides take risks. Both must also follow the law.

Neither party rises to the position of "granting privilege."

Credit cards are consumer products. You have a right to have the same access and treatment that everyone else who is similarly situated gets.

Sure, we are dealing with semantics a bit here, but words are important.

--

[rd_kent]

78. OK, I will give you that

it is semantics, but my point was that most feel credit IS a right, and it just isn't.

[Lorien]

86. I don't feel that credit is a right at all. And I also don't believe that

the banks have a right to raise interest rates on those that are struggling simply because they feel that they can get away with it. It's the usury that's the problem here. The banks already agreed to give these particular customers a certain amount of credit at an agreed to interest rate. If the customer isn't late on a payment then why is it the banks RIGHT to raise their rates if they shop at a dollar store? It's discriminatory, unethical and should be illegal.

[rd_kent]

92. But now were not talking about the same thing

Banks DO have a problem, and the issue you raise is a very valid one I agree with. But I am not talking about that, I am talking about the general consumer's regard for credit is that they feel it is a right, when it's not.

[Senator]

90. OK, I will not take that

Because I didn't say it was just semantics. Perhaps you didn't see the words "a bit."

What I have not seen is anyone making a claim that there is a "right" to be afforded credit against any creditor's will or in violation of any contract or law. So you'll have to provide some evidence for your claim that this is how "most feel."

Your characterization of credit as a "granted privilege" is nearly entirely false -- except for such figurative (and still not "granted" by any entity) usage like "privileges of the rich." By contrast, borrower's have a multitude of literal, "legal rights" regarding access to, terms offered, and implementation of consumer credit agreements (as do creditors).

---

[tbyg52]

73. >>Credit is not a right, but a privilege, that can be granted or taken away by the credit issuer.

True, but their *reasons* can be reasonable or bogus. Much of the current mess we're in is due to uncontrolled corporations.

[rd_kent]

79. The corporation do assume much of the responsibility

for the mess were in, I dont disagree with that. But the user is the most responsible here. No one MADE people go out and buy things they KNEW they couldn't afford. The companies made it EASY to get that credit, sure, but the individuals are responsible for keeping it under control.

[tbyg52]

100. I wasn't even talking about that

I was talking about credit card companies' decisions to reduce credit lines, increase minimum payments, etc. Sure, they *can* do whatever they want, as things currently stand (i.e., corporations being in control of our government.....).

[EFerrari]

75. People started relying on credit when WAGES lagged in the 70s.

And you have no idea if the "vast majority" of credit consumers abused anything.

[Lorien]

85. Since when did punishing customers for their frugality become sensible or

ethical? I have no problem with credit card companies earning income from interest rates-but when they inflate those rates simply because they SUSPECT that the customer may be suffering lean times that seems particularly predatory to me. "We've got you over a barrel and now we're gotta screw you" is a different mindset from "We agreed that I will lend you up to X amount at Y interest rate, which will only be increased by a nominal amount if you fail to pay your bill on time". The banks are contributing to the ill health of the economy, and that effects us all.

[KakistocracyHater]

72. but the SAFE toys, Made in America are ALL FOUND in thrift stores!!!!

I will simply pay cash, now knowing how twisted everything has become, that is just fubar-what the hell?

[mwooldri]

76. What if you're donating money to that charity at the thrift store?

On the credit card that is?

You've bought nothing, you've just actually given that charitable organization a chunk of your money, you do it through your card in order to keep a record of your donations. Then the credit card company slashes your limit?

Yes, I know, a rhetorical question. I've seen it, I work for one. :crazy:

[AnnieBW]

81. Damn!

I get the best finds at thrift stores!

[bunkerbuster1]

83. Guess Sarah Palin's credit's in the crapper now...

well, if there's any truth to that favorite "consignment shop" tale she'd spun last year, anyway.

[happychemtrails2u]

94. How scary but I am glad they are doing it...

Gives people on the fence the impetus to finally cut those cards! Don't allow yourself to be fooled by easy money! We really need to stop consuming so much as a nation; saving needs to come back into vogue.