A white man without the ability to empathize

[Klukie]

may not craft laws or interpret societies constitutional rights as well as an empathetic minority or woman simply because they were never denied any of those rights. When one is denied or restricted their rights they tend to hold them more dear when obtained.In my mind, any lawmaker or judge that had their rights denied or restricted is probably better equipped to understand and protect those rights. The ability to empathize should be revered, instead it is being demonized by those who are fearful of an even playing field.

[el_bryanto]

1. I find it hilarious that half their case is their fear of empathy and then they trot out Ricci

and say "Why can't you empathize with this sad sack?"

Bryant

[krispos42]

2. I find their thinking funny in this way:

"We need an unbiased, dispassionate look at the law! And only white men can do it!"

Well, if only white men can see things that way... maybe it's not unbiased and dispassionate. Maybe it's just white guy bias and they're fooling themselves into thinking otherwise!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. All they have left is fear

fear that we are all human beings and that non-male non-white folks can do things just as well as they can.

[noamnety]

4. K&R for truth

Standpoint theory:

Those at the bottom of the social order are in a better position to see all the dynamics at work because they have to put themselves in their own shoes, and also have the ability to think like those in power in order to survive in their world.

The more white/male/Christian/financially secure/straight/nondisabled/privileged you are, the less you have to be able to see multiple points of view to survive, and the less likely it is that your view is objective.

-------------------
Note I said less likely, not impossible.

[LynzM]

6. Excellent thoughts.

:thumbsup:

If you've never been there, you can't know what you need when you *are* there, more or less...

[polmaven]

10. And that is the point!

How can someone who has never been a white male POSSIBLY know that white men are the only ones who are able to make the proper decisions for the good of the universe?????.....Silly!

[raccoon]

9. Great post. nt

[burning rain]

12. There are limits to that.

Otherwise you could get something like the perfect Senate by installing a random hundred homeless people. The right has had a lot of success in running candidates who come from humble origins, who haven't much education, who sucker people in with their "regular Joe" manner and "born in a log cabin" narrative, then proceed to push a viciously plutocratic line in government. It's a win / win for the right: they get their plutocracy while making it look like populist goodness to many.

[noamnety]

13. I don't recall the right having a lot of success

running non straight-white-male-christian candidates at all, so it's hard for me to tell how that would work for them.

[burning rain]

25. Worked out pretty well for them with Clarence Thomas.

He drew a decisive number of votes from Democratic senators who had voted against Bork. And the idea that non-Christian religion, non-whiteness, and poverty confer empathy is sentimental bunk. Otherwise Somalia would be the land of love and hugs and kisses and happy puppies.

[noamnety]

26. Clarence Thomas is an exception

If you compare the political leanings of straight white rich men, and the political leanings of poor black lesbian women in this country, you will see a statistically significant correlation. There's a reason for that.

This: "the idea that non-Christian religion, non-whiteness, and poverty confer empathy" misrepresents the issue, either deliberately so or because of a misunderstanding. Nobody is claiming that race causes empathy. They are claiming that membership in the group that holds (financial/political/media) power affects one's ability to have empathy - even when you don't personally have wealth or hold elected office. In this country, that would be the straight white male crowd. In Somalia, you would have to look at who holds power there. (When you re-examine that, feel free to examine the power structure as it affects gender relationships.)

[burning rain]

27. The problem is that, certainly,.....

it's sound to say that in a society all demographics should be represented, and different demographics have these and those different stats (e.g., 29% of Asian women over the age of 60...), but when you get down to the level of an individual, people are who they are, not a statistical average or range.

[noamnety]

28. Please see the last line

of post 4. :)

[burning rain]

29. PS.

You can also bet that after lying in a bitter funk for the next couple election cycles at most, Republicans will see the demographic (if no other) sense in recruiting minorities, and they will develop a farm team of plutocratic black lesbian Buddhists to run for office and appoint to judgeships, if they have to.

[helderheid]

5. K&R

[HillWilliam]

7. More specifically, it's

Tightassed Suthren Talibabdist white guys. The rest of us are usually pretty okay.

The problem with those Suthren Talibabdists is when they take 'em down to the river and give 'em that dunking to give 'em the Hawly Spurrit, they don't hold 'em down under the water NEAR long enough. Twenty or thirty minutes apiece would be about right to correct all the problems, theirs and ours.

[central scrutinizer]

8. Hard to identify privilege, if you are privileged

It is just "normal" if people on TV look and talk like you, if people do not stare at you, if you can kiss your partner in public, if you are able to drive without being stopped, etc.

[spooky3]

11. Has anyone made this point? Empathizing does not mean siding with one party vs. the other.

It simply means being about to put yourself in others' shoes, to be able to fully understand the case.

Any *good* judge would do that.

[cascadiance]

14. As a white man, my life growing up could have some empathy for being a minority...

... even though I can't claim to suffer the same deprivation of rights that people as minorities have had (or majorities in the case of women! :) ).

I first went to school in Washington DC where I was a minority in a largely black area of town... I moved to Hawaii where I was a white minority amongst a largely Asian population. And then I lived overseas in Thailand and Turkey where I was a minority there until I moved back to Michigan for my sophomore year in high school.

So though I can't necessarily empathize with being discriminated against, I can empathize with being a minority, and it made me feel that much more empathetic to a younger black girl in the Michigan high school I attended who was the only black student in that high school there, and for me to want to seek more diversity when I went to college and ultimately moved to the bay area in California.

And as Thom Hartmann noted, Alito claimed to "understand" and embrace discrimination as someone of Italian ethnic origin and was not given crap for that, and he said there was even a case where he was ruling against what others were ruling to side with an Italian "side" of a case. That was arguably more of a case where he's just pulling for his race rather than trying to be sensitive to the rights of a minority in an objective sense for all minorities, not just Italians. Why should he be able to do that and Sonia Sotomayor not be more sensitive to the needs of Latinos as well as women and be celebrated for it. If any questions should be asked, perhaps she should just be asked if she would apply her experience to be sensitive to the needs of African Americans or other races and religions in the same way she would be sensitive to those of Latinos.

But there are white men with the abilities to empathize out there, as hopefully I can show myself to be, even if we're perhaps a minority out there. I don't think those attributes in white men are sought out appropriately enough so that they're not just looking to enhance rights for themselves and their own groups, but can instead look at the rights of minorities, regardless of their ethnic origin, religion, or gender as a basis for their sensitivity to those situations and be valued for that more objective sense of respecting others' civil rights.

[Karenina]

30. You know you're a minority in so many ways...

:spank: ;-) You prolly also know that the American default setting means they don't HAVE TO get it. :evilgrin: Their SURVIVAL does NOT depend on getting it. My fantasy white guy who gets it deep down in his soul is the one who was born in Japan and went through their school system and makes his way around the world in his mid-twenties. Somebody should write an epic novel!

Failing my fantasy hero, Tim Wise works for me. He gets it.

[laureloak]

15. Why can't you drop the "white" and just say "anyone".

Else, it is a racial remark.

[noamnety]

19. You are mistaken.

The OP is referring to experiences that are unique to people based on their experiences as a white person in a culture ruled by white people, vs experiences as a person of color in a culture ruled by white people.

You're bordering on doing that "colorblind" thing that folks who don't experience oppression love to embrace because it renders the effects of racism invisible. "If we would just stop talking about race, it wouldn't be an issue." If we would stop talking about it, it wouldn't be an issue for white people.

[Klukie]

21. I considered changing it to anyone before I posted it.....

But in the end I felt it was appropriate because the white man throughout our nations history was never categorically denied the basic rights that our constitution affords us all. That is what sets them apart in this equation. I think I may only take exception to poor white men because they may have been denied due process but I would venture to guess that this in turn made them more empathetic to the minorities that have always suffered with this.

[Karenina]

31. Hä? You're joking. surely!

"I think I may only take exception to poor white men because they may have been denied due process but I would venture to guess that this in turn made them more empathetic to the minorities that have always suffered with this."

OOOOOH, YAAAAAAH!

[mnhtnbb]

16. Empathy is not a Republican trait.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. You absolutely have to listen to this.

J.K. Rowling discussed empathy at a Harvard commencement speech last year. It's in the second half (last ten minutes), but I'm including links to both segments:

Part One

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pucdJHjZaqs

Part Two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbTqNrxSV0&feature=related

[Klukie]

24. I listened to it all....

She is absolutely brilliant and she made me cry. Thanks for this.

[izzybeans]

18. She was referring in spirit to the Pedagogy of the Oppressed

and/or the "strong objectivity" of standpoint theory IMHO.

Basically, a heightened ability to recognize an instance of injustice. "It's easier to walk a mile in someone else's shoes if you've worn them in yourself."

As a judge, she's absolutely correct in saying that she can separate that ability out from her job as a neutral referee of law (however unjust in some cases). She told us up front that she will have to rule in favor of actions she knows to be unjust whenever they are protected by law. A far more evolved form of logic then can be provided by a Jeff Sessions, who wouldn't recognize an injustice if it were written above the drinking fountain.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. I agree in principle. Of course, Thomas seems to refute that

argument - I don't think the man has any empathy.

[Klukie]

22. Ha....

I thought of him when writing this and I almost noted him as an exception.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Great minds... nt