What obligations do cities have for homeless people?

[ColbertWatcher]

I know what GOPers believe cities should do with the homeless and I could care less what the Christian Bible says (much less what other superstitions believe since this thread is about municipal governments), but what do liberals think cities should do for/on behalf of the poor, the homeless and the hungry?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Write more citations for loitering and vagrancy?

n/t :P

[ColbertWatcher]

9. Heh, heh, from what I've seen in other threads, it seems that's ALL cities are doing. n/t

[Dr Fate]

27. A great way to provide free toliet paper. n/t

n/t

[Hepburn]

2. Cities?

IMO, humanity has an obligation to feed the homeless and give them shelter.



"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

[ColbertWatcher]

10. Yes, cities.

I only ask "cities" because I see a lot of threads about the things cities are doing about the homeless and wondered what they should be doing instead.

[slackmaster]

3. The "liberal" bastion of Santa Monica, California doesn't think it has any

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-homeless15-2009jul15,0,855429.story

[Cleita]

5. That's too bad. Twenty five years ago when I lived in Santa Monica,

the city fed the homeless and elderly lunch in front of City Hall. The police looked the other way when they slept on the beach and used the outdoor showers early in the morning. However, at that time because of the real estate boom speculators were moving in and making money on the real estate. My DH and I left then as well as many of our friends. We felt we no longer could afford to live there even though we both had lived there since the fifties. I guess the new residents aren't as compassionate as we were back then.

[EFerrari]

19. Santa Monica has changed so much and all to the ugly. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

12. That's not the Santa Monica I remember.

Wow, times sure have changed.

[EFerrari]

18. They were making it illegal to feed people about the time I left there.

Santa Monica's Board front as liberals and they're closet freeps.

[CBGLuthier]

4. You are so charming

Sounded like a good question but your framing of it makes me lose interest.

[cdsilv]

7. Shelter and feed them..put them to work...

...Most cities of any size have more than enough 'manual labor' that needs to be done (picking up trash, washing down sidewalks/streets, scrubbing off graffiti, etc...) that the homeless could do in exchange for food/shelter.

I say this as a gainfully employed homeless person. Yes, struggling with an addiction to alcohol ended up with me homeless and unemployed. I found treatment & shelter in a christian mission - say what you want about them, they do help when no-one else will. I'm now employed in my chosen field (computers) and living in the transitional housing area of the mission.

There's alot of homeless here in Houston who could do what I mentioned above - Houston pays people to do alot of it - I don't know if they are homeless or formerly homeless....

I don't know the answer, only what worked for me. While in the 'treatment' phase, I did scut work around the mission (unpaid), and basically received room and board for doing so.

YMMV

[michreject]

100. Can't do that

...Most cities of any size have more than enough 'manual labor' that needs to be done (picking up trash, washing down sidewalks/streets, scrubbing off graffiti, etc...) that the homeless could do in exchange for food/shelter.


Those are AFSCHME protected jobs.:sarcasm:

Edit for Sarcasm tag.

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Why thank you.

Your contribution certainly worked admirably toward "reframing" it.

Kudos for you.

[City of Mills]

6. My city has a homeless shelter

It is a clean shelter, if you are caught with drugs and alcohol you are not allowed in. You can read about it here - http://www.ltlc.org/. Also, there are at least two other shelters that I know about in the city which are set up for battered and abused women and their children.

Aside from the cities, what obligations do smaller communities have for homeless people? It should be fairly obvious that homelessness is not just a problem with city residents, yet none of the surrounding communities have resources for the homeless. The homeless 'out there' are either brought or encouraged to come here to seek services. At the same time, many residents of the suburban communities and towns look down upon my city as if all the residents are poor and scummy.

[Cleita]

11. Yes, there are many more homeless living in camp grounds, rest stops and

other rural areas where people don't bother them and where they can pick up some day work.

[City of Mills]

13. The faces of the homeless

Here in my area, one great girl interviewed several homeless people in our area, it's an interesting look at people doing their best to survive...she has many videos and they'e all pretty interesting - some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1c4kwHzQCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGOyZjbZRDQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7Qp6W82Vk


News Report: Lowell's homeless face the cold (video cuts out at the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iztHdBy2eY

[ColbertWatcher]

17. Thank you for posting these links. n/t

[bobbolink]

23. You consider that "housing"? Would you want your mother living the rest of her life, bouncing from

shelter to shelter?

Is this truly the best we can do in the richest country in the world????????????

[City of Mills]

42. Yes it's housing, and yes we can do better

There's more to the picture than a bunch of metal cots and a bowl of soup...

The shelter has acquired a building where there are 12 apartments used to help residents get back on their feet...there is job training available, and substance and mental abuse counseling.

My city has a lot of resources for the homeless, quite honestly - aside from the main shelter, there are two other shelters for battered and abused women and their children, there is a community health center to provide medicine for low and no income residents, we have a methadone clinic which helps treat the many heroin-addicted members in our community, we have programs like Suitability which provides work clothing for those in need, etc... we have our bases covered here.

And as far as low-income housing, we got that covered too - there's plenty of housing in the area which is classified as low income, we have housing projects, hundreds of Section 8 tenement houses, and at least one professionally managed building with low, strict income guidelines.

Not enough?

Probably not, as the number of homeless in the area is ever increasing, harder to tell in the summer months as many live out of the sight of residents and police alike. It's much more noticeable in winter when even the hardiest souls need to get out of the cold. I volunteer at the shelter, and have done so since the late 90's. I see the problems firsthand, and I also see the resources available. I think we do better than a lot of other areas, though.

[bobbolink]

44. Housing is NOT where you're kicked out during the day.

Your lack of information about shelters would be amusing if it weren't so hurtful to those in need.

Or,maybe you think it's fine that diseases are rampant in "shelters", including TB and MRSA.

The ignorance about homelessness among "progrossives" is appalling.

And deadly.

[City of Mills]

52. Your attempts to make people feel guilty aren't helping

I've seen your journal, I know this is your passion and your cause. But you're being presumptuous and overly insulting, so kindly knock it off and stop being defensive. Read my take or dismiss it.

Yes, residents have to leave the emergency shelter during the day. Not so with the apartments here...we give people job skills, provide free living space while they save money for the low-income housing available throughout the city, and when they leave, the next person on the list moves in. There's public transportation available with routes throughout the city and surrounding community. There are plenty of people who have come to the shelter with nowhere to go and came back to help when they are finally back on their feet. Is it perfect, NO! Are we trying to help, OF COURSE! Still not enough for you? What do you hope to accomplish by belittling the efforts and knowledge of people who are trying help? I've lived in this city my whole life, I know homelessness, I've seen it on a daily basis! I talk to the homeless, I help them. Don't you tell me I have a lack of information, you don't know what you're talking about if you think i'm ignorant...

You want to hear the horror stories? You want me to tell you there's been homeless frozen to death in the city, beaten to death? Found dead of drug overdoses? Pulled out of the river or covered by tarps after jumping from the parking garage? I've seen a lot of ugly things here, but I've seen an awful lot of good as well and there's a LOT of people who give their time and hearts freely to complete strangers. Maybe not where you're from, but there are around these parts.

[bobbolink]

59. I don't respond to accusations.

Charity isn't the answer.

It may make you feel better but it doesn't solve anything.

Your "solution" doesn't fit for a great number of people, and the ones left out are the ones who are made to feel deficient because the "solution" doesn't take them into account.

So, you want to talk about "guilt", think about being helpless and made to feel guilty for it.

IT'S A STINKING SOCIETY WHICH DECIDES WHO ARE WORTHY AND WHO ARE UNWORTHY.

[JNelson6563]

92. Thank you for your efforts and your report!

It is an overwhelming situation out there for the homeless and for those who really want to help. It sounds like there is a lot of effort going on in your city.

I do not understand those who go after the people who share their view, just plain ol' worn out I guess. Nevermind that, keep doing the good you are doing and don't look back.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for caring enough to do all that you do! :toast:

Julie

[bigwillq]

14. Food and Shelter

I also think that cities should have some kind of program to give the homeless clothes, personal products and opportunities for employment to those who want to work. Some want to, but have no decent clothes to wear to an interview.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. Good point. n/t

[Skittles]

22. yes, like HOBO in Austin

interview clothes, haircuts, phone usage, etc

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/downtown/pl240796.htm

[bobbolink]

24. Oh, yes, some deodorant and used clothes will solve the problem.

:wtf:

[bigwillq]

25. Not the entire problem.

But it's certainly better than nothing at all. I have known quite a few people who were homeless, and they really wanted to find work but had no means to buy simple things like clothes and deodorant. really can't go on interview without decent clothes, and without smelling decent.

[bobbolink]

30. Why are you "progressives" so unwilling to work for low-income housing?

Look at all the issues you will agitate for, yet you ignore us homeless people and throw us a few bones which amount to nothing at all.

Why is that?

Really, why is that?

Are we just so much shit under your feet?

[bigwillq]

31. I'm a proponent of low-income housing.

Heck, my parents grew up in low-income housing.
Not really sure what you're getting at in this post. I think so much more needs to be done for the homeless, as well as other low-income families. There are so many in my town, and in my surrounding towns, that are one paycheck away from being homeless themselves. It's sad.

[bobbolink]

33. Thank you. NOW, work to get something done about it. This focusing on SHeLTERs

is literally killing people!

LITERALLY!

As a homeless person, I know what it's doing to us, and I know just how little "progressives" care.

I deal with it every damned day!

Now do you see what I'm getting at?

[bigwillq]

34. I do see where you're getting at.

Above when I said, "Food and Shelter", I didn't mean exclusively a SHELTER, but housing in general.

[bobbolink]

37. So, what are we going to do about it?

Have you called in to a liberal show and talked about it?

Have you bugged your congresscritters about it?

Do you promote low-income housing with those you discuss issues with?

[bigwillq]

38. I don't call into shows.

I have written some letters to have my Congresscritters, not entirely on low-income housing, but that was one issue brought up.
I do promote low-income housing during discussions.

[bobbolink]

40. Thanks for the two things you have done. Maybe you can think of others.

Lives depend on it, literally.

Including mine.

[bigwillq]

43. It's certainly an issue

that we can do so much more on. We, meaning government officials, but also average citizens.

My family does a lot of charitable work, mainly my sister. She's on many local committees that deal with domestic abuse, homelessness, etc. I would do more, but I work second shift, and all the events, and meetings, are when I am working.

We actually have some very generous people in the area where we live. One of the programs is a back-to-school event, where you pick a name from a hat, and you "dress" the child for going back to school. You buy sneakers or shoes, pants, shirts, socks, coats, bookbag, etc..

But we can always do more. And I will certainly try.

[bobbolink]

46. I know that these discussions always come back to charity, and that makes it very difficult to deal

with.

If I try to tell you what it's like to try to subsist on charity, you will call me ungrateful.

If I ignore it, then people think that's all that's needed... more charity.

Charity Cannot House EVERYONE WHO Is Desperately In Need Of Housing!

We don't want charity...it's humiliating and debilitating!

We want JUSTICE.

Just like all other groups do.

JUSTICE.

[bigwillq]

50. No it won't solve every problem

or house everyone. But I think it's certainly better than people doing nothing at all. All I can say is that, from experience, a lot of the people who these programs in my area have served have been positively impacted. People will react differently to "charity", and it's definition. But for some of us, most of us, that's the best way to temporarily help someone out.

[bobbolink]

51. Actually, it's not better than nothing. When people are demeaned and made helpless

and to depend on the largess of others, it is severely damaging.

You may not see it, but believe me, that's what happens.

I'm going to add to this to say that I think if you honestly think it through, you can see what I'm talking about.

Charity is very manipulative. People are forced to think and be and respond as their benefactors demand. That goes against the grain of what it means to be "American". Or, it used to. :(

[bigwillq]

53. As I said

I am sure it's different for some people. I don't know from experience, so I cannot say. I know, however, that I would rather have something than nothing, and I am sure there are some in your situation that feel that way to.

[bobbolink]

55. You may think that now. I guarantee you, when you find yourself losing your very being,

you will see it differently.

And I will also remind you that this is the principle reason why so many avoid "shelters" and why so many have chosen death instead.

If we actually were HEARD, this would not be a mystery.

But we will continue to be ignored, and told we don't know what we're talking about.

Been there.

Every day.

[JNelson6563]

94. Hmmm...Charity bad, ok, gotcha.

So, last winter, when it was record breaking cold and snow here in my world, the friend who let me stay with her all winter, who fed me and helped me through the darkest period of my life, who encouraged me and did all she could to see me through---all that charity! It was horrible! I got a fabulous job, got back on my feet, got a place of my own (dare I list all the items my friend charitably gave me for my new home??) and got my son back living with me....Yes, I feel so manipulated and horrible because of the charity of that woman.

Girl, you so need to get a clue. Your heart is in the right place but I am hard pressed to think of a less effective method of advocacy than the one you utilize. I should think at your age you would know that insulting and alienating all who believe in your cause is not the way to go. Reading your contributions to this thread is heartbreakinly disappointing.

Julie

[ipaint]

97. You are absolutely right

Charity certainly provides the giver a good feeling, not to mention a tax cut, but is nothing but a very temporary bandaid on a situation that could easily be eliminated by providing affordable housing.
Homeless people don't exist by accident, bad luck or some character flaw. They exist because our pay to live system is set up to create them. They exist as a warning to all of you with a roof over your head and enough food to eat that you better tow the line, don't challenge the elites, or that could be you.
Charity is a temporary stop gap measure that when all is said and done perpetuates the problem it claims to be trying to solve.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

98. he likes misconstruing things. very deliberately too.

i know what you mean. there are many forms of homelessness and many ways that the city needs to help the homeless. some bigger than others.

[JNelson6563]

93. Well it helped me at one time.

I have managed to put together a pretty nice wardrobe from the Goodwill mostly. I got an excellent job wearing those used clothes to an interview early this year. I then had a position to hire others, meaning I then had the power to make a huge difference in the lives of others. Thanks in part to used clothes and some donated deodeorant.

Do not undervalue or belittle the efforts of others Bobbie. There is no faster way to turn an ally into a member of the oblivious masses.

Julie

[La Lioness Priyanka]

99. Do not undervalue or belittle the efforts of others Bobbie.

good point

[dysfunctional press]

36. what about people who aren't homeless but need/want jobs?

and/or clothes to wear to an interview?

[bigwillq]

39. We should help them as well (nt)

[stray cat]

15. I guess the same as you do for homeless people in your community

[Karenina]

20. A stake, EQUITY in the society in which they live.

[timtom]

21. Legally? None.

Morally? Should provide some sort of solution -- share the largesse, as it were.

[EFerrari]

26. Human beings eating and having a roof should not depend on "largesse"

but be human rights.

[timtom]

67. You have excoriated me for a poor choice of words.

I would have hoped a first response from you would have been less corrective and more collaborative.

In any event, I meant "largesse" in the AHD3 second meaning:

"2. Generosity of spirit or attitude"

[EFerrari]

69. I didn't mean to excoriate you. But providing the very basic things

people need to survive is not actually generosity but simply good public planning.

[ColbertWatcher]

29. But, why don't cities have any LEGAL obligations for the homeless? n/t

[dysfunctional press]

35. why should they?

and what obligations do you think that they should have?

[EFerrari]

41. Apart from the human rights aspect, it's a public health issue.

People who live in your community should have the basics they need to remain healthy. Food, shelter, medical care. Think about it for a minute.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

45. Yes, that is an aspect that people forget about ---

Helping the homeless is also about making a better living situation for us all.

[dysfunctional press]

54. and who picks up the tab?

and who's eligible?

there are plenty of working people with homes who can't afford health insurance- should their taxes be providing free medical care to the homeless?

if city A offers the services- why can't city B just provide bus service for it's homeless population to city A? lots cheaper for the taxpayers of city B.

[EFerrari]

57. Tax payers pick up the tab just as they're doing now

For much more serious emergency health care, for crime, for clean up, for all kinds of things. And instead of having healthy people with a shot at a decent life, we have THIS.

It's not the fault of homeless people that we all pay for health care we don't get, as Dean said.

[dysfunctional press]

61. well if they're already doing it,- what's the problem?

:shrug:

why aren't all the homeless people cleaned-up, clothed, and in good health...?

[EFerrari]

63. Let me put that another way: it costs tax payers a lot to allow homelessness

to continue unabated. We could take the same money and get a much better result for our communities.

[ColbertWatcher]

48. HEY! That was MY question in the OP! n/t

[dysfunctional press]

56. no it wasn't.

you asked what obligations they DO have- i'm asking you what obligations you think that they SHOULD have.

[timtom]

74. Because they've historically lacked the

moral requisites.

There have been exceptions. And the situation seems to have ramped up in the past 30 years.

I remember the Digger pancake breakfasts in the Golden Gate Panhandle in the 60's.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. mental health institutions, food, shelter & training for work

[EFerrari]

47. Health care. A major reason why families go under in the first place. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. yes, but thats a-priori to homelessness, i was talkign about the question

which was after homelessness. Though i do agree, that the homeless (and the rest of us) should have healthcare

[EFerrari]

81. I wonder if it really is, though. n/t

[bobbolink]

60. ah, yes... if you're homeless, you obviously are "mentally ill" I'm glad you didn't

leave out any stereotypes.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. deliberately misconstruing what i said doesnt make you a better human being

the city should provide mental health institutions so those with mental health problems dont end up homeless.

[bobbolink]

65. That was first on your list, so clearly it is your main thought.

To hell with homes, lock 'em all up!

That won't cost nearly as much.

Ohh, wait....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. you mean, besides the fact that i also clearly typed food and shelter?

can you not read or is deliberately being antagonistic on the internet considered some form of heroism these days?

[bobbolink]

68. I'm sick to death of the stereotypes, It causes much misery.

And you are woefully misinformed to think this is a large percentage of the homeless population.

And, yes, you put it ABOVE food, and didn't mention HOUSING.

You might try reading Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for further understanding.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. did i say i organized it in the order of importance? no one mentioned

the mental health services are needed when workign with homeless in cities prior to me, hence i put it first

one doesnt have to be a genius to know that people who dont have homes need food and shelter too.

[bobbolink]

71. It's inconsequential to you because you haven't had to deal with being on the receiving end.

Try dealing with it on a daily basis, and maybe you'll come down from on high and understand what it's like as a human.

EVERY homeless person I've spoken to at length has said that the most hurtful think they've had to deal with is the constant assumption that because they're homeless they must be "mentally ill".

It seems to me that "progressives" would be interested in dismantling ALL stereotypes, for ALL groups of people who are discriminated against.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. if it dismantling stereotypes you mean not addressing problems thats exist

thats not progressive, thats just stupid

again NO ONE aside from you stated that every homeless person is mentally ill

[bobbolink]

88. You've gone so far off the rails you don't even make any sense.

Grow a heart.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

90. grow a brain. nt

[elehhhhna]

32. The Churches have it all covered. Haven't you heard?

the office of faith based whatever has it aaaaaalllll covered.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. I pray everyday that my Faith-Based stock doesn't tank. n/t

[hiphopnation]

58. it's kind of tough to look at the issue in a vacuum like that

a city's budget is very much tied to the county's and state's in which they reside. a city has a duty to provide for its citizens, esp. those who have socio-economic disadvantages, is my feeling. it's ability to do so, however, is solely tied to the whim of its city council, managers, and mayor. :shrug:

[bobbolink]

73. Would you like to guess how much it costs to have people who are homeless?

Interesting that's your only thought.... rather than the REAL human cost of suffering.

BUT, since you framed it this way, you better be prepared to be knowledgeable.

[ColbertWatcher]

78. I think cities would actually frame the homeless issue in "budget" terms. n/t

[bobbolink]

87. Only if there is still a modicum of logic involved. Empathy is a dirtyy word, donchaknow.

[cdsilv]

83. I heard the other day on NPR that it costs 25K/yr to house 1 homeless person so ....

...that they can save up 3K for an apartment.
doncha love it?

[bobbolink]

86. That's only the very beginning. Consider the cost of police harrassment, incarceration, etc.

THEN, consideer that "shelters" are breeding grounds for disease. TB in shelters is 15 times the average population.....PLUS, more and more it is the drug-resistant strain.

Ten years ago, it cost $250,000 to treat a case of drug-resistant TB. You can imagine what that figure would be now. Even at the figure for ten years ago, that would buy a decent house.

Of course, the suffering of the person involved never seems to matter.

Just the cost.

:cry:

[ColbertWatcher]

76. So, helping the homeless is within the obligation of a city, but ...

... depends on the elected officials to act?

BTW, can a person be denied "citizenship" if they don't technically "reside" somewhere?

(I wonder if city charters deliberately use the word "resident" instead of "citizen" to specify who can benefit from services?)

[hiphopnation]

101. i missed a word in my post

what I meant to say is that it's NOT solely up to the whim of city council, managers and mayors.

you're asking the right questions, but they're a blend of legal and moral ones. Morally, I act because it's right to care for those that are in need: that's my belief.

Legally, I don't believe a municipality is obligated to provide for those without provisions, but I vote for politicians who will make homelessness a public issue and push for funding of programs that make provisions for them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. Huh

"I know what GOPers believe cities should do with the homeless and I could care less what the Christian Bible says (much less what other superstitions believe since this thread is about municipal governments), but what do liberals think cities should do for/on behalf of the poor, the homeless and the hungry?"


As A Christian and a liberal I think they should be treated with compassion and everything should be done to ease their plight.




"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.''


-Jesus Christ

[ColbertWatcher]

72. But how does a city translate "compassion"?

How does a city make "compassion" more than a campaign slogan?

BTW, some cities would claim they are being compassionate, but can do no more because of budget cuts (or whatever).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. That's A Good Question

They should be offered food, shelter, and emergency medical treatment, and a job if they are able to work.


I don't believe that most folks are homeless by choice...

[readmoreoften]

79. What obligations do liberals think cities have for homeless people?

Conservatives: remove them so we don't trip over them on the way to the bank.
Liberals: remove them so we can renovate the city for a lovely new arts district.

[ColbertWatcher]

80. Ouch. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. well stated. nt

[quaker bill]

84. Obligations - nearly none

duties that they should perform - many.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. Oligations? The same they have to any other resident. Very, very few.

[hedgehog]

89. People need to get over their fear that someone somewhere will get something for free.

Colorado has found out that taking care of people who need help is also the cheapest way to handle the problem. Give people an apartment and they're off the street. Then social workers can make sure people have access to food, medical care, job training or whatever they need to get back on their feet. Some people can't or won't be productive citizens. It's still cheaper to have someone sitting in a heated apartment drinking all day than under a bridge catching pneumonia so they end up in the ICU. It also makes the entire city a nicer place to live if people aren't begging out on the street or using alleys as toilets.

http://www.cdhs.state.co.us


I wish every state had a similar program. Most cities don't have the tax base to finance this program.

[BlueIris]

91. What's this, a thread started by a sane person? Which is not about Obama's progress so far, unrec,

or circumcision? Kudos to you for keeping it real.

Lessee, uh, obligations...howzabout some decent shelters, with food sources, showers, and beds? That's about all I've got.

[LeftHander]

96. Fix wealthy neighboorhood's streets and sewers....and provide more police protection....

That is money well spent.

Seems to be working for Milwaukee. Washington Heights has never been more devoid of the homeless.

Can't have potholes messing up the beamer's suspension and no way can expensive homes risk a sewer backup (despite being in one of the highest areas of the city)...and the newly reclaimed police precinct also helps keep undesirables from migrating into the area.


:sarcasm: