Who here doesn't believe our current global warming is due to human activity?

[time_has_come]

Or that global warming is happening at all.

[leftstreet]

1. LOL at "believe"

:popcorn:

[tekisui]

26. Don't you know it requires a great deal of faith to understand science?

:rofl:

[sakabatou]

2. I believe that it is mainly due to us

Ever since the industrial revolution.

[ibegurpard]

3. it's irrelevant

because anything we do to try to combat global warming, whether it exists or not, is going to be good for the environment and thus good for us as well.

[Dumak]

12. I'm glad you said that

because in a sense, it's true. We should do something about climate change whether it's all man-made or not. *however*, knowing what man is doing to cause these changes will help us understand some of the things we can do to reverse the effects.

[Control-Z]

15. That is what I say to every non believer

when they argue with me that global warming exists, or that it's man made. I always ask, "What will it hurt? And I suggest that all the steps we are (should be) taking to combat global warming are things that will improve the quality of American life, regardless of whether global warming exists. A light goes on every time, and they agree with me. Even the testiest of them agree.

[zbdent]

23. can we afford for the Repubs to be wrong?

and I mean, not in $$$ terms ... I mean in being able to continue as a species ...

[elocs]

20. I always said and thought exactly that. Anything we do is good for the environment anyhow.

What will the price be if we do nothing?

[The2ndWheel]

21. That's at least a little bit ridiculous

Anything? Anything we do? If humans are causing climate change, then it's about what we do, not how we do it. It's about the activity, not the energy. We increasingly changed environments when we hunted with sharp sticks.

No wonder the whole "green" thing is so popular. We can still do anything we want, and even more than that, as long as we think we exist outside of physical reality. Somehow, by changing the climate(by combating global warming), we're going to stop climate change.

[time_has_come]

25. Have you thought that through.....?

If you say it's irrelevant then you remove the urgency and motivation against the specific problem of global warming.

And you're only partly right. MOST things that combat global warming are also good for the environment. What about things that could buy us time...like scrubbing C02 from industrial emissions? If global warming is irrelevant then why not just focus on scrubbing particles from emissions and not worry about the C02? Or what about some of the geo-engineering proposals? Some of them are pretty wacky, but when things really start to get hot around here (moreso) orbiting a few thousand mirrors between us and the sun may start to look a lot less wacky.

Your point is valid, but I think it cedes dangerous ground.

[dysfunctional press]

46. even contrails of sulfer dioxide to block the sun...?

how is that good for the environment?

[Ilsa]

66. Very true, and a worthwhile argument against the Tom DeLays who think

we are too insignificant to have an impact on our environment. They'll yell that it is bad for the economy, of course, to which we can claim that we are creating new industries to stop global warming.

[abumbyanyothername]

4. Uh . . . I know I'm not supposed to do this

IBTL.

:popcorn:

[Dragonbreathp9d]

5. We are in cycle for a natural warming trend

however, mankind is accelerating it

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. +1

pretty much how I see it.

[time_has_come]

37. What makes you think we're "in a cycle for a natural warming trend"? n/t

[lindisfarne]

6. Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_9kDO3q0w&feature=related

[soryang]

7. Could you refer me to some authoritative sources?

I haven't really seen any that would pass say the test in Federal Courts for expert scientific evidence. I have an open mind and am looking for persuasive data, rather than popular media or testimonials. Say some peer reviewed studies.

[smiley_glad_hands]

9. Start here.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=nw#hl=en&q=global+warming+facts&aq=1s&oq=glabal+wa&aqi=g-s10&fp=KxYPMM6r3XA

[REP]

16. Yes, because it isn't science 'till it goes to Federal Court

[wuvuj]

34. Also look here?

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/


The Rugpugs are afraid they will lose their freedom to exploit everything under the sun for profit.

[time_has_come]

39. I could provide, but I won't. Just asking a question. Can I assume you

don't believe?

Certainly there's thousands of peer-reviewed scientific studies that constitute evidence that we're causing it, as well as the physical evidence that it's happening.

But if you don't believe one or the other I'd be interested to know why.

Thanks

[Crabby Appleton]

47. What the fuck do the Federal courts have to do with it?

[NYC_SKP]

8. Plants love CO2, so more CO2 is good for plants and for the planet.

Hannity said so, so you know the scientific community and IPCC are wrong.

:evilgrin:

[GReedDiamond]

53. NO! Plants crave Brawndo...

...Brawndo has what plants crave, electrolytes.

[callous taoboy]

86. Bwaaa haa haa. Hey Greed! I haven't forgotten about you!

Hey man- I'm still enjoying the tunes and am going to get a package put together for you. I've been crawling my way back to good technological health here at home, so now I need to buy a some burn software and I'll get the 13th Floor Elevators to you.

[GReedDiamond]

87. No problem, not going anywhere...

...at least not until I'm done with our new project, "Green Sparkle Frog." I hope its out in October.

I see that Roky is playing London in August, just did his birthday gig in Austin three days ago, and was in Norway on July 3. It's really great to see he's still out there doing it!

[Maru Kitteh]

10. Enjoy yourself why you are here! We have a special section on the Creation Museum!

We'll fill you in as you go along!

[time_has_come]

27. WTF?

:wtf:

[tekisui]

29. WTF to you.

What is your point with your question. Many have asked what your 'belief' is, and you have yet to respond.

[time_has_come]

40. Actuallly, I have. But you keep on keeping on.

[tekisui]

42. I wrote seeking your position,

until you responded. And, I haven't questioned it since.

[wuvuj]

38. Do you have dinosaurs?

I like dinosaurs. Will Sarah Palin be there...maybe dressed in a skimpy bear skin bikini?

[Blue-Jay]

11. What do *you* believe?

[mix]

14. It is the human activity of the last 500 years or so mostly.

The Industrial Revolution, market economies, and population increases are the culprits. This graph says it well:

So yes I very strongly believe that climate change in large part is due to human activity, specifically capitalist activity.

[Control-Z]

17. Where the hell are all you guys

coming from? Was there a convention? An advertisement? A contest? Geez.

[time_has_come]

28. Let's make a deal...

don't make paranoid, asinine assumptions about me and I won't do the same to you.

[tekisui]

30. Give us something to work with if you don't wish to be accused of

something.

[time_has_come]

36. I asked a question. Is that not something to work with?

Do you feel a need to flame people who put a simple question out there just because you're suspicious of their own positions, even though you have no reason in the world to be? Go read my other responses if I alone am the focus of your interest.

[troubledamerican]

18. I believe deforestation (by humans) is equally culpable as pollution

but gets short shrift.

[cabluedem]

19. Overpopulaion is ignored. Cant feed 6B humans forever. nt

[galileoreloaded]

51. hey, ho, whoa..........shhhhhhh. Thats not a opular-pay ubject-say around here.

there is plenty for everyone, forever.

Just nod and smile.

[Bill McBlueState]

69. people like to say that overpopulation is a taboo subject

but I'm not sure it is.

Saying what exactly should be done about overpopulation may be that part that's taboo.

[cabluedem]

83. Problem is humans are programmed to breed regardless of poor conditions. nt

[Rebubula]

67. DING, DING!

We have a winner, folks.

However, there is no humane way to solve this problem.

[Deja Q]

75. I'll adopt, I won't breed. Also, who will volunteer to die? I love that question,

because nobody has the guts to say they'll take the big hit for their team...


Oh:
:popcorn:

[time_has_come]

31. Certainly land-use changes are a big factor. It affects the earth's cycle of C02 absorption. n/t

[Xithras]

48. I believe that deforestation and particulate pollution are actually greater influences than AGHG

Human generated greenhouse gasses certainly play a very large role, but there's a lot of widely ignored research pointing to global deforestation as the main culprit. In Europe alone, the combined European plains once hosted more than 1.5 MILLION square miles of forest, of which only a couple hundred thousand remain today, broken into tiny and scattered remnants. While Europeans have been whittling away at those forests for the last 5,000 years, the overwhelming majority of that forest was cleared only in the last 300-400 years. And what about the United States, where hundreds of thousands of square miles of riparian forests were extirpated permanently from the midwest, and virtually all of the hardwood forests on both coasts were clearcut in the 1800's and early 1900's. The second and third generation forests that exist today only occupy a portion of the former forestland, and are populated by younger and smaller trees.

And now the same thing is happening to the last of the great forests in Brazil and Africa. The forests are the lungs of the planet, sucking in CO2 and expelling oxygen, and yet we've already cut more than 3/4 of the forests worldwide. No wonder the planets ability to breathe has been compromised.

[troubledamerican]

49. Sacramento, CA claims reduced temps via trees -- details.

http://forestry.about.com/b/2005/12/24/sacramento-tree-capital-of-the-world.htm

Sacramento, CA claims that they are a "tree capitol of the the world" and that their tree canopy
reduces city temps significantly. Extrapolate this as a solution for warming.

Another solution: The conceptual artist "Christo" is known for wrapping large items such as icebergs, skyscrapers
and bridges in gigantic solid colors. Start "painting" every giant unused open space (such as deserts) white. Soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christo

______________________________________________________________________

My theory is that ocean temperatures are the engine of global warming.

Oceans are heating up because continents are absorbing more heat via deforestation.

Oceans absorb this heat from deforested land surfaces.

In turn this affects the atmosphere and polar regions.

[StevieM]

79. Agreed. Deforestation is an enormous problem, especially in the rain forests (eom)

[zbdent]

22. I don't "believe" it is "caused" by human activity ... I understand that

it is aggravated by what human activity does to it ... and that we can try to keep it from being accelerated ...

but, if you believe that God is going to step in and save the human race ... keep dreaming. I would have thought that "God" would have done something a bit more direct for the millions slaughtered in the 30s and 40s ...

[tekisui]

24. I am familiar with the prevailing thought about it on DU. What do YOU

believe?

[time_has_come]

33. "Prevailing thought"....but I've noticed there are still a not insignificant number here who doubt.

And I'm interested in hearing from them...knowing why they doubt, what causes them to still doubt.

To prevent paranoid suspicion that a simple, unloaded question can raise I should have stated that I accept what every scientific academy and society in the industrialized world is telling us, but I thought it irrelevant to the question and didn't want to make this about me.

[tekisui]

35. Very good.

DU is a rough place at times. If a not well known poster asks a question such as yours, the reaction is often to assume disruptive motives. We get a lot of that here. Nothing personal.

Those who don't believe, here, are in the far minority. I rarely, if ever, read posters claiming that global climate change is not a product, or at least accelerated, by human causes.

[time_has_come]

41. But they're here, and not as trolls. There are still many seemingly thoughtful and intelligent

people on the left who doubt or diminish human causation.

I don't seek to "out" them or hold them up for ridicule, I just want them to help me understand what they're thinking and why.

[Progressive_In_NC]

43. From what I've seen, it looks like human acceleration moreso than human causation

Although the arguments for that are strong.

I just don't think we have enough actual climate data over thousands of years to accurately determine what is natural or what is man made. However, I think that we are putting the gas pedal down on whatever natural cycle the earth may be in.

[DainBramaged]

32. Animal farts

:evilgrin:

[1]

78. to be correct, it's animal burps that are the problem...

98% of bovine methane does not come from their butts.

i bet you thought they are mooing. in fact, they are burping the cow alphabet!

[slackmaster]

44. It's partly due to human activity which itself was made possible by the present natural warming

How much of the present warming is anthropogenic and how much is natural, I really don't know. But that really doesn't matter. Reducing pollution and dependence on fossil fuels will be a good thing.

[Hugabear]

54. PARTLY due to human activity? Try MAINLY due to human activity

You simply can't pump trillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere for decades, and not have any results.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. Humans only release 10% of the CO2 released into the atmosphere.

How much would we have to cut back in that 10% to make a difference? I believe Al Gore said 10% would make a dramatic difference. So a 1% reduction in carbon emissions is supposed to make a drastic difference? Something is fishy about that.


David

[Hugabear]

64. You sound like a right-winger

Combined with your posts in the gungeon, I'm starting to wonder...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

73. So you can't substantively respond to my question, so you accuse me of being a freeper?

How intellectually honest of you.

David

[Hugabear]

80. There is overwhelming information available showing man's involvement in global warming.

I'm not going to sit here and spoon-feed it to you, especially if you're just going to counter with pseudo-science figures.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. Al Gore is spreading pseudo-science figures?

[Odin2005]

45. Anyone who thinks anthropogenic global warming isn't happening has no brain.

Human activities are resulting in increased CO2 levels

CO2 is a greenhouse gas (case in point: Venus)

Increased levels of greenhouse gases means more heat is trapped in the atmosphere and thus warming it.

Thus, humans are causing a warming of the climate.



To deny anthropogenic global warming is to basically deny basic facts of Chemistry and Thermodynamics.

[Hugabear]

50. There's nothing to "believe" or debate. It's a FACT.

It's like asking if DUers believe the Earth is round.

[flvegan]

52. One would have to be an absolute IDIOT to think it's not.

Stop breeding and having 10 kids, stop eating meat, stop driving shit vehicles, etc, etc.

[Yo_Mama]

55. I believe the majority of recent warming isn't anthropogenic

Only about 20-30% over the last 70 years.

Based on recent data, that's my best guess. I don't think we'll really have a workable climate model for maybe another 50 years. Still a lot of questions.

[Hugabear]

57. And I believe you are flat-out wrong.

Got any data to back up your assertion that human activity is only a minor contributor to the ongoing climate change? Where's your degree in climatology that gives you the experience to look at "recent data" and make such an guess? Or do your pseudo-science figures come from sites like World Nut Daily?


We have been dumping trillions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere for over 100 years. It would be insane to think that this hasn't had a major impact on climate change.

[Tim01]

56. Not sure. But I prefer to err on the side of caution. nt

[ControlledDemolition]

58. Global warming is happening and man made pollution is an abomination.

I recall reading that the polar regions of Mars are also melting. So whatever may be naturally occuring isn't helped by human activity.

[ContinentalOp]

59. It's clearly caused by all of the movie lights used to fake the moon landings. -nt-

[ControlledDemolition]

61. Let your anger go... I used to believe as you do... but not any longer. n/t

[earth mom]

60. I'm sick of all the people who make excuses as to why Obama & Congress are doing little to combat

Global Warming.


Hell, Gore endorsed Obama and the thanks he gets is Obama ass kissing the coal industry and Obama allowing the rain forest in Alaska to be cut down even more.

I'm sick to death of the lip service and politics playing.

Who the fuck are these people and how in the hell do they sleep at night?! :argh:

And people bitch about Faux news? How is any of this any different?!

[Deja Q]

77. In the new global economy, let's kick out ANY country that balks out of these talks...

Here are their names:

(the media's favored country to mention)
(the media's favored country to mention)

I try not to name names because of various, uh, hot topics on DU has those who are loyal to (the media's favored country to mention) having one of their myopic little tantrums...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. I thought it was global climate change now and not global warming anymore?

[Hugabear]

65. Global warming is very much real.

Please don't start buying into the right-wing propaganda, where they like to point to specific cases to "prove" there is no global warming, while ignoring the big picture altogether.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. Really I thought it was referred to as global climate change.

[Bill McBlueState]

70. Researchers in the field have always called it climate change

Temperature is only one aspect of climate, so "global warming" would be a narrow way to characterize the research.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. Thanks for clarifying.

[Hugabear]

81. It's still global warming.

Temperatures have been increasing globally for several years, and most climatologists agree that temperatures will continue to increase significantly over the next century. I'd call that global warming.

Conservatives and climate-change deniers like to point to isolated examples and anecdotal evidence as "proof" that global warming isn't taking place. By doing so, they're exhibiting rather simplistic thinking. Global warming doesn't mean that the entire world is going to see the same rise in temperature. Quite opposite - there are a few areas that may actually see temperatures plummet - particularly Northern Europe, if the Gulf Stream is disrupted as many predict it will over the next century. But that still doesn't mean that overall, the planet won't be seeing significant temperature increases, thus the "global warming".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

89. So most places will get warmer, others will get cooler, hence global climate change.

That is my understanding at least.

[Strelnikov_]

68. Nope. No relationship between CO2 emissions and temperature

[marshall]

71. I don't think it matters

Arguing over the cause prevents cooperation. In my opinion most people would agree with conserving resources. The earth doesn't care whether it's because they want to be thirfty or whether they want to slow global warming.

[Deja Q]

74. Nice streak of record LOWS in Minnesota this summer...

So either it's "climate change"... or "global warming" is merely a load of hot air...

BTW: I can lick my own armpits too...

[Hugabear]

82. See post #68

It's still "global warming". Trying to point towards a specific instance, or using anecdotal examples of unusual cold, is very simplistic thinking.

[armyowalgreens]

84. That is a face/palm statement made by an unscientific person.

I'd be willing to bet that you've done very little research on global warming.

[armyowalgreens]

85. We play a devastating role in the climate shift on an exponential level.

The more pollution we release (particulates and greenhouse gases), the more the Earth releases (gases). As the Earth releases these gases, it speeds up the release. It is a chain reaction that will one day run out of control.

Either we right our ways, or the the natural processes of the Earth will eliminate us in order to once again create equilibrium.