They're Winning - Private insurance companies push for 'individual mandate'

[slipslidingaway]

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/07/business/fi-healthcare7

"As momentum gains for reforms, insurers hope to turn it to their advantage by supporting a proposal that everyone buy coverage. It would be a boost for the industry, which has seen enrollment decline.


...But this time, it turns out, the health insurance industry has good reason to support at least some change: It needs it. Private health insurance faces a bleak future if the proposal they champion most vigorously -- a requirement that everyone buy medical coverage -- is not adopted.

...Insurers do not embrace all of the healthcare restructuring proposals. But they are fighting hard for a purchase requirement, sweetened with taxpayer-funded subsidies for customers who can't afford to buy it on their own, and enforced with fines.


...The industry's real trouble begins in 2011, when 79 million baby boomers begin turning 65. Health insurers stand to lose a huge slice of their commercially insured enrollment (estimated at 162 million to 172 million people) over the next two decades to Medicare, the government-funded health insurance program for seniors..."


For insurers, getting "run over" would be the adoption of a so-called single-payer plan, where the government pays all medical bills. Such a plan would wreak havoc on the private insurance market, and is widely viewed as politically unfeasible this year. So the best way for the industry to preserve the private insurance market -- and derail the campaign for a single-payer system -- may be to go along with more palatable proposals on the table now, said Jeffrey Miles, a healthcare analyst and president of the Miles Organization, a Los Angeles insurance brokerage firm..."

[glowing]

1. Looks like they are advocating for single-payer themselves.

[slipslidingaway]

6. My belief is that this reform will be crafted to keep them in the game

this delays single-payer, not for profit HC.

[kath]

50. Yep, it will delay it for decades and decades.

Government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation works so well for the ins. companies.

We are screwn...

[slipslidingaway]

2. The deal...November 2008...

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/20/business/fi-insure20

"The health insurance industry said today it will support a national health care overhaul that requires them to accept all customers, regardless of pre-existing medical conditions -- but in return it wants lawmakers to mandate that everyone buy coverage.

The board of directors for America's Health Insurance Plans agreed to the trade-off Monday night. The board endorsed the proposal after a series of hearings in various states.

"We hope this will be a contribution to help members of Congress fashion their proposal," said Karen Ignagni, president and chief executive officer of the trade group. "We're going to provide all the technical background that we have assembled, all the experience we've assembled at the state level, and we're going to work very hard with members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. We want to make sure that whatever reforms are advanced, no one falls through the cracks."

[Cerridwen]

3. From page 2 - "If healthcare goes down this year,..

"If healthcare goes down this year, you are going to end up with single-payer care much sooner than anyone expected," he said." ("he" is "Jeffrey Miles, a healthcare analyst and president of the Miles Organization, a Los Angeles insurance brokerage firm."

eta: subject line

[slipslidingaway]

4. Thanks for the important addition and I happen to agree with him n/t

[Cerridwen]

9. You're welcome. I added a wee bit more below. The last 4 paragraphs

are the real fears of the insurance execs.

[slipslidingaway]

14. The real fears are that someone in power would push for

not for profit health care, so they agree to cover everyone, but only if there is mandated coverage.

Their fiercest opponent has been left standing at the gates

:applause:

while they help to craft legislation that will keep a national health care program off the table for years to come.

[PM Martin]

5. How would that work?

[Cerridwen]

10. See the final 4 paragraphs on page 3, please.

I think that pretty well states the case.

[slipslidingaway]

11. People are waking up to the fact that insurance companies do

nothing to provide care, there are too many people who are fed up with them.

They add nothing of value to the equation.

If something is not done now there will be increased pressure for reform and people will be more informed about the choices IMO.

[Uzybone]

8. Its an idiotic statement

[slipslidingaway]

12. Why, if something is not done now, do you think the issue will just

die again?

Personally I do not think that will happen again and we should not let it happen.

[Uzybone]

18. if it fails now, why does anyone think it will arise again and succeed in the near future?

Strong Healthcare reform will only fail because the rightwing succeeded in scaring enough people, and the left were too gutless to stand and fight. I really do not think anyone on the left should be rooting for another 4 - 8 years of this current broken system in the hopes of getting single payer.

[Cerridwen]

21. Because people will still get sick and lose their insurance.

Because insurance companies will keep denying coverage.

Because it's starting to hit wider swaths of the population.

Because another year or two if this mess, and no one will care about whether the insurance execs live or die, much less if the insurance industry does.

BTW, if it doesn't pass this year, it won't take another 4-8 years for this issue to return.

[slipslidingaway]

31. I do not think it will take another 4-8 years, if this is defeated, the

very next day people will start to demand that we go back to the drawing board.

[Cerridwen]

13. Nope. If "we, the people" don't get health care reform this year

"we, the people" might actually start screaming and hollering as we watch our loved ones become ill and die; as we hear more and more horror stories about insurance company profit driven motives putting profit over human life.

If we don't receive relief soon, some of us are gonna "blow." The insurance companies are starting to come into view as the real culprit in the health care nightmare that is some peoples' lives.

The pressure cooker might actually explode. When it does, ain't no one gonna give a shit what happens to the health insurance industry. We're damned close now. 72% currently support health care reform; of the republicans polled, 50% support health care reform.

They're losing their "base" of support.

[slipslidingaway]

15. Exactly, time allows more exposure to what the insurance companies

provide...nothing.

[Cerridwen]

17. It also allows more time for bankruptcies and home loss and job loss.

Desperate people don't care about businesses and their "right" to do business.

As I noted above, "they're already losing their (usual) base of support."

[slipslidingaway]

28. Unfortunately it does, but the public option will not be available

until 2013 (even then I am not sure it will be open to everyone) at that point we can pick an insurance plan from the new exchanges.

And not all doctors have to participate in the public plan, or any private plan, so we still do not have a choice of health care providers, we have a choice of insurance plans.

:(

[Cerridwen]

35. "not all doctors have to participate"...

true. But I bet a lot of them do.

It's all speculation at this point anyway.

My preference is HR 676. But I don't have millions to put forth. So, as will we all, I'll get what they deign to give me.

[slipslidingaway]

43. Could be, but then we have to remember that the situation could

change at any time, the plan is supposed to be self-funded.

If it starts to run into problems they'll have to do something, but I agree it is just speculation at this point.

:shrug:

[ipaint]

46. We have a failed but in place model of the plan in Mass.

The public option part is underfunded and will cease to exist in any meaningful way soon. I really don't think it is speculation to look at that model and use it as a gauge for the national model.

Plus the ins. industry isn't spending 1.4 mil a day in washington for a strong vibrant public option which has the potential to morph into single payer. They are paying for the exact opposite. They will get what they are paying for.

[bobbolink]

42. On the other hand, if something REAL isn't done, the DEMS will most certainly lose power.

Given the blue dogs, that isn't all bad.

But if the Dems go under without a real third party populist alternative, ....

....well, I think we're done for.

And, that also won't be all bad.

Sometimes, and I fear this is one of them, people have to lose everything before they "get" it.

:cry:

[Cerridwen]

44. They have until the next election.

We'll see.

I'm too much of a cynic to hope for much any more.

"Sometimes, and I fear this is one of them, people have to lose everything before they "get" it."

Not all of us. But yeah, whole bunches of us.

:hug:

[bobbolink]

45. The next election is a little over a year away,

If the Dems lose any in Congress.....

........well, they profess powerlessness now.... :evilgrin:

If we were to have a cynicism contest, I would surely win. :rofl:

[Laelth]

25. Good. Let's make sure it goes down. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Cerridwen]

27. I think you just spoke sacrilege .

LOL

But, I do understand the sentiment.

[Laelth]

30. So long as the progressive caucus opposes the bill, I have cover.

I intend to write them and my blue dog congress-critter and express my opinions.

Without some Dem cover, however, you are right.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Cerridwen]

33. Good points, all.

:D

[Cerridwen]

7. From page 3 - "They are interested in 45 million new customers,"

I was going to quote the last four paragraphs but I think that's avoiding the intent of the four paragraph rule here.

Please, go read those final four paragraphs.

[ipaint]

19. Wow

No wonder the constantly repeated "we'll never get single payer" is so prominent in every health care discussion.

The opposite could very well be true. Do we really have the upper hand and just not realize it?

[Cerridwen]

20. "Do we really have the upper hand and just not realize it?"

Good question.

[slipslidingaway]

24. I think we do, for now they have successfully channeled the anger to support

a public option, some have even tried to confuse the issue by saying the the public option is single-payer, not for profit HC.

If reform is defeated this time and more people become informed the insurance companies will lose, they know that, so instead they agree to work with Congress.

[ipaint]

23. the last 4 paragraphs

The industry fears that the government would force lower fees on hospitals and physicians, enabling a public health insurance plan to offer consumers a better bargain.

That, they say, would make it hard for private companies to compete for customers. Insurers also fear that a public option could easily be converted later into a single-payer healthcare system.

Health insurers don't see a public plan "as the nose of the camel under the tent; they see it as the front half of the camel under the tent," said Robert Laszewski, a former insurance company executive and industry consultant.

"They are interested in 45 million new customers," he said, "but the first thing in everybody's mind is preserving their right to do business in a way that can be profitable and meet shareholder needs."

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/07/business/fi-healthcare7?pg=2

That last sentence says it all. I've been without health care for so long I'm not scared I'm numb so waiting these guys out is fine with me. If the choice is to continue being raped by these guys or watching them die in the near future so future generations will have something they can't take away without a massive fight, I'm in.

[Cerridwen]

26. You just said in 2 sentences, what the insurance industry is afraid will happen.

"I've been without health care for so long I'm not scared I'm numb so waiting these guys out is fine with me. If the choice is to continue being raped by these guys or watching them die in the near future so future generations will have something they can't take away without a massive fight, I'm in."

If they don't get it passed this year, they're cooked.

[ipaint]

29. Thanks for posting that link, slipslidingaway

I guarantee the public option will be weak enough to allow these guys to carry out their profit plan for their shareholders, just like massachussetts. Anyone who thinks we will be better off is unable or unwilling to face reality.

[slipslidingaway]

49. YW, my fear as well is that the public option plan could easily

be weakened.

In case you missed this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8530179&mesg_id=8530179

Massachusetts Takes a Step Back From Health Care for All Eliminating Health Care Coverage for 30,000

Massachusetts Takes a Step Back From Health Care for All
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
New York Times
July 14, 2009

BOSTON — "The new state budget in Massachusetts eliminates health care coverage for some 30,000 legal immigrants to help close a growing deficit, reversing progress toward universal coverage just as Congress looks to the state as a model for overhauling the nation’s health care system.

Critics of the cut, which would save an estimated $130 million, say it unfairly targets taxpaying residents and threatens the state’s health care experiment at a critical time. “It either sends the message that health care reform cannot be done, period,” said Eva Millona, executive director of the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, “or it opens the door to doing it halfway and excluding immigrants from the process.”

[juno jones]

47. I'm with ya.

Except for pre-natal and birth care, I have been without insurance for over twenty years. The only recent policy I have been offered in the last few years was a total joke- a high deductable, low-payout travesty that was almost worse than nothing at all.

I've learned to take care of myself over the last decades of Reaganism. I am more than willing to wait with you and watch them die baah-ing. :thumbsup:

[quidam56]

16. They prefer us dead- no chance they will have to pay for any quality health care

As a former health care giver, I am shocked and saddened to see what has become of health care in America. $ 1. 4 million is being spent per day in DC by the health care lobbyists so your elected representative is getting taken care of and has quality health care we pay for and can't afford ourselves for our families, I know what is deemed, defended and supported in Tennessee and Virginia as quality health care and clearly profit care comes ahead of patient care. http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62 MRSA ( methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureas ) is infesting our communities because filthy, uncaring hospitals and emergency rooms are breeding them and spreading them into our schools, homes, restaurants. How many more Americans' will be diseased or die while 74 % of Americans' are begging for health care reform ? More people died in America last year from MRSA complications than AIDS. When MRSA and a flu bug start mixing, it won't be pretty and we are being infected by the very health care system we depend on and trust to keep us safe and healthy. If we had "the best health care" in the world then why does RAM ( Remote Area Medical ) come to Wise County, Virginia year after year so people can go to the fairgrounds and stand in a line like cattle in the hot July sun just to see a health care provider ??? America's health care system is a disgraceful sham !

[slipslidingaway]

22. They say they care about people, but they really care more about

profits for the health insurance companies.

[RufusTFirefly]

34. The insurance industry is concerned about being profitable and meeting shareholders' needs...

Who could ask for a nobler goal?

I mean, it's not as though we're talking about a life-or-death issue here....

Oops.

Never mind.

[slipslidingaway]

37. Exactly, in business to make profits, fiduciary responsibility to shareholders...

:hi:

[canetoad]

32. This got me wondering

If countries with universal health care (my own included) ever 'lay off' the costs by re-insuring.

On the plus side, it would keep the insurance giants happy to have the government's premiums with which to play their financial jiggery-pokery, which also become the drawback if there is a crash.

Anyone know anything?

[slipslidingaway]

38. Scary, a new line of business :( hope that never happens and

have not heard anything.

[abumbyanyothername]

36. Why is a single payer widely viewed as unfeasible?

Who are these people that view it as unfeasible?

What is their connection to the $1.4 million dollars per day that insurers are paying to keep control over the process.

[ipaint]

40. We've all been conditioned to believe

the insurance corporations are insurmountable and our representatives in washington have reinforced this belief through their good cop/bad cop routine on every single issue that benefits americans.
But if the insurance corporations now, because of circumstances way beyond their control, have a fairly short shelf life and americans find out- we have the power. In fact we have it today.

[RufusTFirefly]

41. "Unfeasible" single-payer is like "unelectable" candidates

The meme is planted and then pretty much takes on a life of its own.

Anyone intrepid enough to follow the story back to its origins will find it had no basis to begin with. But when you own a gigantic megaphone, you can shout out pretty much anything you like and count on most people to listen, believe, and obey.

[Kansas Wyatt]

39. If people thought the Bush Medicare Prescription Plan was a giveaway....

The Democrats are about to award a Mega Jackpot to the Insurance Industry. Republicans must be grinning from ear to ear behind closed doors, even though they'll spew their same rhetoric.

Our alleged 'Representatives' are selling us out to Corporate America and are making us 'Subjects' to it's Corporate State. We have a 1 Party system... The Corporate Party - Democrats & Republicans, Inc.

[slipslidingaway]

48. If the public option does not take off and people are mandated to buy

insurance then it will be a huge giveaway.

Most likely we'll blame the other Party and forget that we began the discussion from a position of compromise.

Hope we are wrong.

:)

[kath]

51. +100...

[Rex]

52. Sure, that will work.

Poor people can afford to pay for health insurance, that is why they don't currently have any - because they have not been forced to pay! Forcing them is pire genus.

[Laelth]

54. Didn't you get the memo?

The solution to homelessness is to force everyone to buy a house.

Now wasn't that easy?

:crazy:

:dem:

-Laelth

[slipslidingaway]

55. And if you cannot pay, maybe you'll get a waiver. n/t

[Rex]

56. Maybe.

[slipslidingaway]

58. Unfortunately it does not give you access to care....

should have had a

:argh:

smilie on my prior post.

[ibegurpard]

53. K & R

A very interesting perspective on this

[slipslidingaway]

57. Thank you :) n/t

[chill_wind]

59. K & R.

[slipslidingaway]

61. Thanks :) n/t

[Solly Mack]

60. K&R

[slipslidingaway]

62. Thank you :) n/t