Is the California education system, once the best in the world, being dismantled?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Furloughs and pay cuts for University of California, California State, and Community college systems have already been approved or are on the way to approval. Large student fee increases are planned. This trio of college systems was the standard for the world. The largest higher ed system in the country.

California unified school systems are reeling with teacher cuts... LAUSD, 2nd largest in the world is in extreme financial distress.

In a few years, will we look back and wonder why the US has to import all of its scientists and health care workers?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.montereyherald.com/opinion/ci_12857949?nclick_check=1

It is cliche to say the higher education system is what created California as the Golden State, the land of aerospace and high-tech and easy living, but that doesn't make it any less true. We have chosen to blow up the bridge behind us.

Professors aren't being hired. Employees are being furloughed. The higher education system that once was the model for the nation and beyond is now becoming a cautionary tale.

[madrchsod]

1. yes it is....

a state/country has to make things to have a robust economy.

we have become Argentina

[Paranoid Pessimist]

54. What was at one time the best STATE is being dismantled n/t/

[izquierdista]

2. Prop13, the gift that keeps on taking

Never underestimate the corrosive power of greed.

[slackmaster]

8. In spite of Prop 13 we have the most heavily taxed working middle class in the country

You want me to pay more in property tax? Want to do away with the 2/3 majority requirement to raise taxes?

Fix the spending problem first.

[izquierdista]

13. Yes

Next time you get a little overheated, let's try throwing you in the deep freeze and see how you like it. The problem with the late '70's real estate market was no reason to freeze everything in place (even though I did benefit from it). And a 2/3 majority, that's real democratic, isn't it. Why not make it 9/10? That way the workings of government are even more subject to pleasing the raving lunatics.

California peaked in 1966. That was the year that they set the country on the downward slope by electing a smooth talking fascist. Bonzo would have done less damage.

[slackmaster]

18. The real estate market was not the problem

Excessive taxation was the problem. Local (county) governments got greedy, and kept reassessing peoples' homes and raising their taxes beyond any reasonable justification.

It happened to my parents. The value of a home my mom bought in 1966 had quintupled by 1978. So did her property tax, because the county of San Diego kept reassessing it almost every year.

The property tax kept up with the market value of her home, which she could not have predicted. Our family income did not keep pace with the family's tax bills.

That's why many people, including me, voted for Proposition 13. I would not vote to repeal most of it. (I would like to see the ability of businesses to avoid reassessments of commercial properties amended, but not the limits on residential property tax.)

[izquierdista]

25. Easily duped

And now you wonder why California is in a world of hurt. Some people will never learn, and others, when given a nickel to buy a clue, go spend it on :beer:

[slackmaster]

40. Do you have a constructive, realistic suggestion for fixing the problem?

One that is politically viable?

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. After the state finally collapses then, and ONLY then, will the politicians and the people

realize what is wrong with 13

And yes, it WILL have to be on the table... that is a huge wide revision, of the taxing system.

And guess what more? WE, yes kemosabe, WE will have to decide, do we want to go the way of Mississippi or get a viable state with viable services. If the latter is what we want... well guess what? That means taxes. Shit ain't free.

By the way reassessing commercial property will have to be part of it, and you think commercial interests will not fight that one even harder than home owners?

For the moment we have a bunch of radical loons dictating policy in Sacramento because you have NO FUCKING PROBLEM with the 2\3 majority, which is very democratic, NOT.

Now if you do not mind broken roads, and a school system right under Hawaii, by all means, lets cut some more taxes,

Trust me this shit ain't sustainable.

[slackmaster]

64. Have you applied for property tax relief recently, by any chance?

Or have you just allowed the assessor to keep jacking yours up by 2% per year even as the value of your home has dropped? (As a fellow San Diegan I am confident that yours has dropped, as has mine. I don't qualify for relief because the market value of my home is still a lot more than I paid for it 15 years ago.)

A lot of homeowners in San Diego have gotten theirs lowered by about 20% recently.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. I am just pointing a reality

shit ain't free. So yes, we will have to decide what kind of a state we want to live in. And no I have not applied. Any other questions?

So what do you want? Broken roads, lousy schools and no safety net? We are well on our way.

You want a good place to live, with good schools, good roads... oh like California used to be... well guess what? That stuff costs money... as in real money.

[slackmaster]

67. What I pay in income and sales taxes more than makes up for my controlled property tax

Other states manage to provide good schools and roads and a safety net without taxing working middle-class homeowners into the poor house.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. So you are a spend and not tax liberal?

Okie dokie. Hope you enjoy the falling apart roads, and schools, and no safety net.

Sorry, but we need a whole sale revision of the tax system in california if we are to get out of this hole... oh and get rid of the lovely 2\3 to raise taxes in Sacramento.

By the way, I don't have kids in public school. Hell we don't have kids, and I will not mind paying a little more to ensure that MY NEIGHBORS kids get a world class education. I also do not mind paying a little more to ensure a safety net so neighbors can get the help when they need it.

Oh and sales taxes don't do the job and are very regressive.

But the reality is.. what kind of state do YOU want to live in? This shit is NOT sustainable. Yes, it is pure economics.

[slackmaster]

69. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, libertarian-leaning Democrat who votes and pays taxes

I'm a divorced empty-nester, I work for a living, and I own property that I plan to keep even when I am eventually living on a fixed income.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Libertarian... all I needed to know

I also work for a living and pay taxes... and if you are fiscally conservative this is simple

Money in does not cover money out, so either we raise the money in... (where the whole slew revision comes in), or we drop the money out by cutting a whole slew of services. So lets get down to the gritty nitty

What services do you want to cut?

Because it is that simple, if you are not willing to pay, what the hell do you want to cut?

[slackmaster]

74. No, not Libertarian

I wrote "libertarian-leaning". I favor personal freedom whenever possible. Excessive taxation is contrary to freedom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. So you want the services but not pay for them.

by the way, look at Somalia, that is a heaven for no taxation.

And your views are not libertarian leaning, but libertarian

[slackmaster]

77. Get specific

I want good schools.

I want reasonably well-maintained roads.

I want a prison system that keeps violent offenders locked up but is not packed with non-violent people.

I pay enough in taxes that I should be able to have all of those things, and I don't have any of them because the state government is run by entrenched special interests and career politicians.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. And republicans who do not want to do any fair taxation

happy now?

Proof is in the pudding. Is it working? NO

Next thing on the agenda is HOW TO REFORM IT TO MAKE IT WORK.

[Odin2005]

117. In other words you are a corporatist sucker that likes to smoke pot.

That's tells me everything I need to know. you are one of the anti-tax lunatics that destroyed your state.

[Hannah Bell]

84. but not for corporations, or the super-rich; the folks behind prop 13.

[Hannah Bell]

85. ps: cali is right in the middle of the state tax burden stats, though not right in the middle of the

state gdp & income stats.

[closeupready]

72. Unfortunately, that's correct. The state will have to collapse first.

Nobody will give an inch until after the worst occurs, IMO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I know because a lot of residents in this state

want all them services, but don't realize it costs real money

[closeupready]

79. And even if the middle-class Californian is taxed more highly than a typical middle class resident

of other states, that is irrelevant - if you are spending more than you are taking in, eventually, you go broke. So, yes, Prop. 13 is a big part of the problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. You do not need to convince me about it

it needs to be revised, with everything else in the tax code, PERIOD.

We need to prevent the abuses that led to it... yes they were real,,, but 13 is part of the problem

Oh and here are some references for those who scream we are heavily taxed... (no we are not)

http://www.businessturku.fi/bt/cms.nsf/files/884e0a205dd9e4cac2257436003f8bc5/$file/tax_rates.gif



Oh and my favorite, for those who keep screaming but they are going up!

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

And yes the State (and the Federal Government) will need to figure this out. People want these services, we need the taxes, aka the revenue stream. It is very simple... and anybody who has done a budget realizes this.

[Odin2005]

119. There is an apocryphal story of a guy who said "why should I pay for public services, that's the...

...government's job".

People are morons.

[KamaAina]

78. Ouch! Below the belt!

a school system right under Hawaii

I can't say I actually disagree with that (many DOE teachers send their own kids to private school!), but since you're our largest single market for tourism, and O'ahu in particular is almost like the "59th county" in many ways, we're your allies. Besides, the last thing we need is an influx of disgruntled ex-Californians; it wouldn't take very many to have a huge impact on our dwindling (yes, still!) housing stock.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. I lived in O'ahu for three years... and saw the wonders

of the educational system.

I also know that in Hawaii it is more complex than just funding, but you know why I posted it. Hawaii, Guam and Puerto Rico take turns at the bottom, California is in the bottom third and falling fast.

Hey at the pace we are moving we will go :hi: on the way by

[ProgressiveProfessor]

97. But true. I know few teachers that actually send their kids to public school there

[CreekDog]

17. how can you run a state when i pay $3000/year in property taxes while some neighbors pay $500

why is it fair to keep such a system and how on earth can you educate children properly based on funding that cannot increase more than 2% per year?

[slackmaster]

19. Your neighbor probably pays as much as you do in income and sales taxes

That's where MOST of the state's revenue comes from.

Property taxes are not even listed as a line item on the state's high-level budget summary, because they aren't paid directly to the state. They are buried in "transfer payments" which amount to a small fraction of the budget ($14.4 billion for the last fiscal year).

http://2008-09.archives.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/Enacted/BudgetSummary/FullBudgetSummary.pdf

Here's a high-level summary of revenue, dollars in millions:

Personal Income Tax $53,733
Sales & Use Tax 27,361
Corporation Tax 11,039
Insurance Tax 2,029
Alcoholic Beverage 341
Cigarette 114
Other Revenues 2,534
Transfers 5,836
Total $102,987

Note the conspicuous absence of property taxes. They are buried in Transfers, which go both directions.

[CreekDog]

22. name me one good school

name me one place where a person with a $400,000 house can pay $500/year in property taxes where and live in a good school district.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

28. for someone who offers all kinds of detail in opposing tax hikes

that poster continuously says "cut spending" without providing any detail on what to actually cut.

[slackmaster]

30. If you pay $400,000 for a house in California, your property tax will be at least $4,000

So, what are you talking about?

[Romulox]

34. You only pay $4000 in property tax on a $400,000 house?

Am I misreading that? I pay more than that for a house worth less than half of that, here in Michigan.

[slackmaster]

36. That's what the 1% limit of Proposition 13 would result in, HOWEVER...

In most if not all districts, people pay additional property taxes that are voted in locally.

For example, my property tax is 1.1% of my current assessed value. The extra .1% is for local school bonds.

I pay more than that for a house worth less than half of that, here in Michigan.

But I'll bet the personal income tax in Michigan is less than the 9.8% we pay in California (for income over $44,500 IIRC). And I'll bet you don't pay 8% or more in sales taxes.

[CreekDog]

47. your current assessed value can be FAR LESS than your actual property value

thanks to Prop. 13 when my property value was 550k, my assessed value was 437k! my neighbor who bought in the mid 70's has an assessed value less than 100k!

oh, and that additional property tax you referred to, in my school district it's 0.06% :wtf:

most jurisdictions are not collecting a great deal more than 1% of assessed values, but because of Prop. 13, most jurisdictions are collecting FAR LESS than 1% of actual property value, including that of commercial property to which it also applies.

[slackmaster]

49. That protects people who have unexpected increases in market value from getting soaked

On reassessments, which is exactly what led to Proposition 13 in the first place.

[CreekDog]

60. then you will correct your post about paying $4000 tax on a $400,000 house

because that is not how it works and we know now that you understand this.

why is it fair for one household to pay $800/year property tax while their neighbors in a similar house pay $5000?

do you realize that in 2006, the property taxes on my street ranged from $6000/year down to well under $1000/year? i would not defend that unfair system, i would also not defend it because it is not sustainable.

and nevermind the commercial property issues. why should commercial property be assessed at 1977 levels? can you answer me that?

there are ways to reform Prop. 13's mandates without kicking people out of their houses.

but we can keep everything the way it is and have a state with crappier, more crowded schools, expensive universities, a growing underclass so that people on my block and commercial landowners can pay based on 1977 assessed values (and very small increases on that).

if you don't think that needs fixing, then you want a state far different than what Earl Warren and Pat Brown helped usher in.

[slackmaster]

62. Why should someone pay drastically higher property tax because he or she got lucky

And bought into a neighborhood where property values rise dramatically, over which the person has no control and could not possibly have predicted?

How do you expect people to budget for something like that?

and nevermind the commercial property issues. why should commercial property be assessed at 1977 levels? can you answer me that?

I have already stated repeatedly that I would support repealing some of the provisions of Prop. 13 that keep taxes artificially low on commercial property.

[Romulox]

51. Sounds like your income tax is too high, and property tax is too low.

A little over $4000 in property taxes on a house worth $400,000 is obscenely low, by my standards. If California set more reasonable property tax rates, it would likely place a limiting factor on the ability of the public to finance run-away/overspeculated home values.

[slackmaster]

52. The net result is that I pay higher taxes than working middle-class homeowners in other states

And there are still people who think I'm not paying enough.

:eyes:

[Romulox]

56. Tell the governator to take his hand out of my pocket, and it would be none of my business.

"And there are still people who think I'm not paying enough."

It's basic accounting that tells us that you (collectively) aren't paying enough.

[slackmaster]

57. Well then figure out a way to collect more without making working middle-class voters pay more

Otherwise it's a non-starter.

[Romulox]

58. Er, I told you that I live in Michigan. Not my problem to solve. nt

[closeupready]

80. Then the solution is simple - your state is going to go broke.

n/t

[elehhhhna]

81. 200K = 4K prop tax here near Houston.

[Liberal_in_LA]

86. about 2500K in Los angeles, less if you bought the house long time ago

[CreekDog]

42. if their house is WORTH $400,000

but they are paying at 1977 levels if they bought it before then -- based on the Prop. 13 formula. and yes, there are many people on my block that are paying less than $1000/year property taxes on $400,000 properties. I'm paying $3000, although I was paying $4800/year before it was reassessed.

[slackmaster]

46. Sooner or later that house will change hands, and the property tax will go up accordingly

That's how it works.

I'm paying $3000, although I was paying $4800/year before it was reassessed.

Twenty years from now, if you still live there you'll be the one paying a lot less than some of your neighbors. Then you can listen to them whining about how it's not "fair".

[CreekDog]

27. who are you? how would you know how much he pays in income tax?

i know how much property tax he pays because it's public information.

[slackmaster]

32. I'm the mysterious person who reads all of your mis-addressed emails

I know a lot more than you think.

But seriously, I know I pay plenty in taxes.

[Donnachaidh]

21. How about getting Ahnuld to tax his movie buddies more?

If he cannot do that -- get his ass OUT. And never, NEVER vote a washed-out actor into office again.

[CreekDog]

24. please tell us what to cut

and i expect you to come up with a $26 billion dollar answer.

[slackmaster]

35. I support a wholesale release of non-violent prisoners over age 50

Close prisons, lay off staff.

Lay off all the teachers who are still on the payroll but not assigned to classrooms.

Close all offices of the Department of Motor Vehicles except two or three days per week, and lay off staff.

On the income side, raise the fine for using a hand-held cell phone while driving to $1,000 and order the California Highway Patrol to enforce it aggressively.

[CreekDog]

you aren't at 26 billion

sorry. :thumbsdown:

[slackmaster]

41. You haven't presented a realistic suggestion for closing the gap either

"More taxes on the working, voting, property-owning middle class" is not going to happen.

[CreekDog]

44. but unilike you i didn't rule out revenue increases

except for your $1000 cellphone fine which will do jack squat for the budget.

[slackmaster]

45. It's not just me ruling out revenue increases

A strong majority of the voters rejected tax hikes in November. The message was loud and clear, we don't want to pay more in taxes.

[CreekDog]

50. what was the ballot measure?

do you even know which election you are talking about?

[slackmaster]

55. Whoopsie, I meant the May 19, 2009 special election

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_state_special_elections,_2009

The package would have guaranteed higher taxes for years.

[CreekDog]

61. that was hardly a clear cut vote on raising taxes

there was not one ballot measure where i could vote to raise taxes and preserve spending.

not one.

look Mr. Slackmaster, stop wasting time on the computer and get back into the negotiations with Speaker Karen Bass and Senate President Darrel Steinberg or quit the governorship and make another movie.

if you are going to lie like Arnold, then I'm going to assume you are him.

:wtf: :rant:

[slackmaster]

63. I want Bass, Steinberg, Scwarzenegger, and all the other idiots OUT of state government

They have all proven themselves to be incompetent.

[CreekDog]

65. maybe, but most budget decisions were forced by voters

not by current legislators serving 30 years past Prop. 13.

and you would have your budget with no tax increases if Democrats were simply willing to gut education and children (along with state workers) to the tune of 26 billion but they have not been willing so far.

[slackmaster]

70. Gut CHILDREN?

A modest proposal, but that's not exactly what I had in mind.

[CreekDog]

82. you underestimate California Republicans

:rofl:

[Odin2005]

120. That just proves that "The People" are MORONS!!!

You anti-tax idiots deserve what is coming. Too bad a lot of innocent people are going to suffer because of your guys' BS.

[rvablue]

43. Prop. 13 IS the reason the middle class is heavily taxes in California.

Take a look around your neighborhood.

See that office park?

And that shopping center?

That block of apartment buildings?

Chances are, the owners of those commercial and rental properties are paying 1979 tax rates on those real estate holdings.

So, the money to pay for all of these things -- including a world class university system -- have to come from somewhere.

[slackmaster]

48. I'd support raising property taxes if it was accompanied by a cut in income and sales taxes

:hi:

And I have already stated in this thread that I would approve of amending how Prop. 13 works on commercial property.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Interesting Op-Ed refutation of that recently in the LA Times, a paper that is anti Prop 13

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-fox9-2009jul09,0,7503532.story

Author clearly is on one side of the issue but he brings up some interesting figures. Prop 13 changed the dynamics of local funding, but overall revenue is quite a bit higher.

[slackmaster]

16. Facts have little effect on the anti-13 crowd

Would you vote to repeal Prop 13?

36.2 %
Yes, it has ruined California
63.8 %
No, we don't need more taxes.


823 total responses

[CreekDog]

23. but you're objective

posting a poll with "ruined" in one of the choices. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

38. The facts of where California gets its money and how much it takes in are not in dispute here

So, what are you talking about?

[natrat]

3. they need a dumbed down population and the ngovernor is delivering

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Yes, the GOPdepression has created another disaster opportunity.

[Gman]

5. All according to the Right Wing plan

they hate education because if people are educated they see what's wrong with their incredibly stupid ideas. Low levels of education and low information are the winning combination for the right wing.

[XemaSab]

6. Is this a rhetorical question?

:shrug:

[Liberal_in_LA]

89. No. well, sort of, I guess

[gristy]

7. I dunno.

What do you think?

[hunter]

9. California itself is being dismantled.

It was becoming a threat to the USA.

[Hepburn]

10. IMO, the only threat we ever posed ended when....

...Reagan died.

JMHO

[lurky]

11. I bet this is a way to "privatize" the UC.

The RW hates successful public services, because they give the lie to the whole philosophy that the private sector is always better than the government. They can't directly attack these services because they are too popular, so they undermine them and underfund them, then say "Look it's broken! We need to let private business run it."

Mitt Romney wanted to privatize UMass when he was governor, so you know this is something the Republicans have thought about.

[Hepburn]

12. Yes, they just want a whole series of...

...USCs ~~ Universities of Spoiled Children ~~ where you have to be a legacy to get in and a GPA does not matter.

JMHO

PS: I am a proud graduate of the University of California....fuck USC.

[liberal N proud]

15. The dumbing down of America

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Prop 13

Did all of this. My father predicted it when 13 was on the ballot all those years ago, and every bit of what he said has come true.
They like to live in mansions, and those mansions are 'supposed' to go up in value by huge amounts each year. However, they do not like to pay mansion level taxes. They want their home to go up in value by hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for the tax to remain the same.
They also like to have servants, but they can not afford the real kind, so they maintain a brown and unprotected class of labor to make the food and clean the house for sub living wages, and tell themselves they are good people for 'giving Maria a job'.
My home state. I left it to become human.

[pinniped]

29. These clowns are proposing a 20% tuition increase at CSUs.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/17/MN1618Q3U3.DTL&tsp=1

[mike_c]

104. that's on top of an additional 10% already approved in May....

Aggregate increase of 30% in one year-- and THAT'S on top of increases every year or two for the last several years. It's insanity.

[Romulox]

31. California is the GM of states. Utterly unsustainable in its present form. nt

[lindisfarne]

33. When was it EVER the best in the world? It is being dismantled, though.n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

101. awwww.

[mike_c]

105. do some research-- the California Master Plan for Education was visionary...

...and created an economic engine that was the envy of most NATIONS, let alone states. The largest university system in the world, and few argue that it wasn't one of the best. It has produced more Nobel laureates than most other COUNTRIES. It still is one of the best, but those days are probably numbered, now.

[lindisfarne]

110. Attracting nobel laureates isn't the same as educating people who become nobel laureates.

UCLA has educated only 4 who subsequently became nobel laureates.
http://www.ucla.edu/facultyhonors/nobel-alumni.html?PageID=1107&RPID=924

UC-Berkeley is the only UC that has produced many from amongst its graduates (25 - but only about 10 of those did their undergraduate work at a CA public university); UCSD only 1 (although to be fair, they've only been around about 4 decades).
1 UC institute - not the UC system, produces a lot of nobel laureates from amongst its graduates, and there are many other universities that produce more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation

Also, note many of the ones listed as Berkeley were affiliated with Berkeley Lab (11), otherwise known as Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. UC Berkeley still has produced a very respectable number of nobel laureates from among its undergrads and grads, but other universities have produced more.
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/nobel/list.html

Having a visionary plan, whatever you may mean by that, does not translate into a system being the best in the world.
It is commendable, but I was doubting the "best in the world" aspect. CA K-12 is mediocre at best (depending on what is measured, CA ranks in the middle to the bottom of the states); this affects that the UCs can produce.

There are many universities which have more of their graduates become nobel laureates, if that's how you want to measure the greatness of a university. (And if you want to measure greatness by attracting graduates of other institutes who subsequently become nobel laureates, there are other universities that exceed UCLA, UC-Berkeley, & UCSD as measured on a per capita basis of total faculty plus non-faculty researchers).

CA has 36 million people in it - 1 in 8 Americans live in CA. Of course its economy is going to be large.

[Flaneur]

37. Perhaps, but not the prison system.

I think California must have the world's second largest prison system, behind only the US federal one.

170,000 prisoners, is it? About half of them in for non-violent offenses.

How much do those prison guards make? They have a very powerful union.

Money for Supermax, not superior education!

[LWolf]

39. It's BEEN dismantled.

The process has been going on for a very long time. Prop 13 (I graduated from a CA highschool the year before it became law,) the state STAR program, which is CA's version of NCLB at a state level before it went federal, and now the draconian cuts...

FWIW, CA is not the only state cutting staff and programming. One state to the north, my small district cut 42 people, cut the school year for students from 168 (already one of the shortest in the nation) to 147 days, cut PE and Music teachers from all elementary and K-8 schools (adding those subjects to my duties,) eliminated our prep time, AND we took a pay cut.

None of those teachers who were RIFed from my district can find work in our region, because every other district was cutting jobs, too.

[EFerrari]

113. My kids went through the same schools in the 80s I did in the 60s.

I didn't recognize them.

[LWolf]

114. yep. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Yes, yes it is... ah prop 13... I remember one of my profs over

25 years ago being thankful that he was close to retirement. As he put it... it will destroy the system

Was he a prophet? No... just perceptive

[MadHound]

73. That's what happens when you trash your revenue stream.

Revoke Prop 13 and California could solve much of this problem, but God no, while Californians want all those services, they don't want to fork over the tax money to pay for them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

96. When you look at the numbers, Prop 13 is not the issue

[MadHound]

111. When you look over the numbers over the past thirty years, yes, Prop. 13 is the problem

California used to be the top in schools, but when Prop. 13 dropped the base out of education revenue across the state that's when you started seeing California schools slide. It was showing up badly twenty years ago, a decade after Prop. 13 passed, and it's continued it's downward slide ever since. Now the quality of California education is bouncing along the bottom, somewhere in Mississippi range.

[Hannah Bell]

83. yes. as well as public services & social protections nationwide.

we're being "restructured," only most people don't get it yet.

[PretzelWarrior]

87. undoubtedly it is. Maria Shriver should divorce Ahhnold in protest

what a horrific FUCKING TRAIN WRECK he has been as governor.

[Liberal_in_LA]

90. agreed. Bring back Gray Davis. John & Ken of KFI radio brought this train wreck of a gov upon is

They hassled Gray out of office.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

95. Actually he was recalled, which radio hosts can not do

They are a quarrelsome pair...

[Liberal_in_LA]

98. They kept up the drum beat until he was recalled.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

107. What do you think of their current "Head on a Stick" campaign, it does seem to annoy

Bass.

[Liberal_in_LA]

112. I hate the way John & Ken portray themselves are justice fighters when they are little more than

racist hate mongering idiots. Those 'head on stick' campaigns are smokescreens for the race bating crap they do with the rest of their show

[ProgressiveProfessor]

115. Its their shtick and they are good at it...they will skewer anyone for ratings

Sometimes they make good points but go so over the top with it that it loses any sense of rationality. However, putting some fear into pols is in many ways a good thing.

They do get hard over on non-US nationals and that does have a lot of traction in SoCal and elsewhere.

[Hekate]

88. The new prez at hubby's college wants an across the board pay cut that will cut his pension...

... for the rest of his life. The college in question is a community college.

Naturally she doesn't mention pensions as one of the casualties, but those close to retirement could lose not only income now but 50 to 100 bucks a month for the rest of their lives, because pensions are partly calculated on your last 3 years of salary.

This was first broached during Christmas vacation, when almost no one was on campus. Mr H sent an email that got a lot of attention, pointing out the flaws in the plan so it was temporarily shelved. Now it's coming back full force again while most faculty are gone. We just got back from a long-overdue vacation to find out that the faculty association is having a meeting today, something they never do in the summer.

Mr. H stayed up until almost 2 a.m. writing another well-researched email on the subject of disparate impact and even mentioned age-related lawsuits. Despite loathing politics and having a chest cold, he's actually going to attend this meeting.

Disparate impact (and lazy thinking) is all over this local scheme. It also hurts those at the lower end of the pay scale (secretaries, for instance) much more than those at the highest (like administrators such as the president of the college).

That's all I have to add to this discussion: just a word from out here on the ground.

:argh:

Hekate

[inna]

92. i work for the UCSF, and effective August 1, there is an 8% salary cut across the board.

8% is A LOT, especially if one lives in San Francisco and finds it hard to make the ends meet...

:(

:(

[Liberal_in_LA]

100. The final decision is out... graduated payscale reduction from 4% to 10%, effective 9/1

Not 8% across the board anymore. But yeah, the cuts are huge

[inna]

108. yes, i just got the memo today. apparently, it's no longer straight salary reduction,

it's furloughs (which is better, for a number of reasons).

also, apparently there is some hope that those of us funded by the NIH grants won't be affected... but i haven't been able to get a conclusive answer from anyone on this one yet...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

116. I got hit as well. Since I am already retired I am not being hurt badly by this but others clearly

are going to be.

[spelldmilk]

94. $10 that this is the result of the buisness practices of Enron officals.

[Jakes Progress]

99. The neocons won. nt

[fishbulb703]

102. im at a public uni, the first thing state leg. cuts? education

why? we cant or dont vote. although alachua county florida went blue (where UF is). politicians could care less about youth. either party. s'truth

[mike_c]

103. yes-- and I say that as a veteran cal state professor who has seen it happening...

...during the last decade or so. The process is accelerating now, or maybe it only appears so because the cuts we've endured over the last half dozen years have undermined all the reserves. But without a doubt, the nation's best higher education system is being systematically destroyed, and by the people who have benefited from it the most in the past, and stand to benefit the most in the future. We are shooting ourselves in the head.

[Sirveri]

106. legalise pot, modify prop 13, release nonviolent offenders

Boom bam bing, problem solved. But we can't possibly stop jailing people for lighting plants on fire and then inhaling the fumes. No that would stop that wonderful influx of cash all those private prisons enjoy.

As for prop 13, I don't support a full repeal, because that would cause a HUGE shock to the system. That said, I do support removing the ability to transfer those tax rates to your children. I also support a CAP on property tax assessment increases. You can do a reassess once a year (or maybe every two tops) but the basic rate increase can't exceed the rate of inflation +1%. Deflation counts as 0 not as a negative number. Tax rates don't sky rocket, but they will at least actually get back to a percentage based rate.

[defendandprotect]

118. CIA budgets were being hidden in school budgets at Federal level . .

and of course there's been an overall attack on public education --

mainly by starving it but also thru the use of religion as a battering ram --

[Odin2005]

121. All you anti-Tax morons (including a poster in this thread), you are reaping what you sowed.

THIS is the end result of Libertarian BS, a FAILED STATE.