For the love of the Ivy-Covered Walls........

[marmar]

For those who graduated from traditional four-year universities/colleges, if you had to do it all over again today, would you still go the same route?
Personally, I would. My years at the University of Michigan were the best of my life, and the mind-expanding, "finding oneself" experience of the university experience far outweighs that fact that much of the first two years of classes has no bearing on your eventual vocation.
But I know an increasing number of current students who are looking at the cost of a four-year degree and opting for career-focused programs at community colleges and trade schools at a fraction of the cost. You can become a registered nurse through the program at Wayne County Community College here in Michigan for about 1/8 the cost at Michigan State University or the Univ. of Michigan.
Pragmatism over idealism.

[realisticphish]

1. absolutely

4 years at Ohio State, heading into my second year at Kent State.

I might change my major, but I would definitely do a four year undergrad again

[Sanity Claws]

2. Didn't respond

Hard for me to decide what I'd do.
The costs of four year colleges have become prohibitively expensive. To do it, some people are graduating with more than $20K in debt, some even in the $40-50k range. A four year college and its experiences are not worth that kind of debt, IMO.

[Burma Jones]

3. The money for my college education, my choice of school, was part of my Parents' Divorce Settlement

So, I caught a break there.

[JerseygirlCT]

6. My parents sent four of us to college

(well one did ROTC and paid for his own). But then again, back when, tuition and room and board at my school ran 7k a year.

It's gone up pretty significantly since!

[Burma Jones]

8. When I went to my small liberal arts school

everything cost about $17-18K a year, that was early 1980s. I think it's about twice that now, but with generous financial aid......

[JerseygirlCT]

17. That's another angle, of course

many schools are offering more financial aid. Fewer are now paying full tuition.

[JerseygirlCT]

4. Yes (though substitute "college" for "university" in my case)

In fact, my child is currently attending the same four year, liberal-arts college that I attended. And loving it. I hope he gets as much from it as I feel I did.

My experience was that career-training happened on the job, but the lessons in communicating well and thinking critically were the crucial foundation.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. I want to see degrees with focus

if you are enrolling in computer science that's all you do. One can complete a degree that's geared for your future job. No american history, no English or any other busy work. I prefer the UK higher education system.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. I completely disagree

A well-rounded education is essential. We've already got too many people who are ignorant about so much of our world. You don't change that by encouraging people to stay within their narrow comfort zones.

Lay a strong and broad foundation, and people can then build almost anything on it.

[Burma Jones]

9. +1

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. I believe one should have detail in the subject that one has chosen

I believe that the 'extra stuff' can be studied as graduate work.

[marmar]

13. And in Britain, don't students essentially get a lot of the liberal arts education....

..... during an extra year of what we call "high school"?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. No

we didn't do any liberal arts with a science degree. The university degree starts at 18. YOu complete all the mandatory courses before you leave high school. The PhD is by research and thesis only - no classes.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. I think you've got it just backwards

The original education should be broad - how else to really know what interests you? A good base prepares the student to choose among many areas in which to specialize.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. we did that at high school

[JerseygirlCT]

25. My experience of high schools here is that the education is NOT

terribly broad ("basics" are what's tested, and what's now taught to, often enough.) Reading, writing and math are important but are just the tip of the iceberg.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. our high school offered

Greek, French, German, Spanish, music, band, sport (all field and court, pool etc), english literature, english language, physics, chemistry, biology, no tech as computers weren't around then, geography, history, ancient history, math and further maths, social studies, art, woodwork, cooking and other things. I personally think that was enough! In 6th form we could specialize in subjects we wanted to do. My friend did math, further math and anicient history. I did physics, chemistry and biology.

http://curriculum.qca.org.uk/key-stages-3-and-4/subjects/index.aspx

[Hepburn]

12. +1...

...to be educated in only one area and have little or no knowledge of others, IMO is not to be educated at all.

JMHO

[RadicalTexan]

24. People should be competent in these subjects after graduating from high school

Which is why, in the UK, they do three-year, focused degrees - they already did what we would consider college-level work in the other subjects, in high school.

Of course, I personally think the school system is a wage slave factory and babysitting system, but, hey, I'm an anarchist.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. right!

[TahitiNut]

30. The distinction between a "school" and a "college" in a university ...

... is, afaik, based on the absence of subject diversity in a "school." Thus, the Engineering School or the Nursing School affords the student such a concentration, while a true collegiate education covers a breadth of subject areas. My undergraduate degree is in Mathematics, which is (along with the sciences like Chemistry and Physics) a degree concentration in the College of Liberal Arts. There is no question that the Mathematics training offered a mental discipline that was invaluable, I find that the richness of my life was enhanced immeasurably by the diversity of coursework I did outside of Mathematics.

When we think of 'college' as a vocational school, we lose. All of life, both vocational and personal, is enriched by the synergy of our associations with others ... others with differing educational backgrounds. When we have some basic background in a diversity of subjects, we're better able to enrich those associations.

There's a reason it's called the "Business School" ... since they graduate the narrowest and least attuned people on the planet. (IMHO.)

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. Well said. I could cry to think our colleges and universities are becoming tech schools

and also the amount of pandering to the parents that our universities and colleges are doing.

Used to be that the colleges were the places where the experts taught the next generation of experts how to be literate, productive, thinking members of society.

Now, except for some of the better ones, they're turning into job-training shitholes with no interest in real education, in which they cater their courses and their attitudes to the consumer-driven "customer-friendly" bullshit of WalMart.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Ummmm......

It is entirely possible to "find" oneself without living/studying in a university environment. And the experience doesn't necessarily correspond to a traditional college age timeline. Some folks "find" themselves before they enroll in college and use college as a means to their goal. Others "find" themselves much later in life. Some never have the experience.

I know it is possible to be well read and educated without holding a credential. It is also possible to hold an educational credential and be ignorant, biased and bigotted. This difference seems to have something to do with personal desire rather than educational programs.

I know that career success requires either skill or some combination of skill and credentials. If I needed credentials I'd get the best I could. Otherwise I'd focus on acquiring and developing skills.

I have an undergraduate degree and three graduate and professional degrees. I do not regret getting the education I have. Would I do it again? No fucking way. Too much time, too much expense, too many foregone earnings, too small a payback for the effort.

Edit to add: If I had to make the choice again today I'd go to a technical or trade school. Then while working I'd go part time to a community college and then I'd continue part time at a traditional university studying just what I wanted. Maybe I'd finish a degree or more. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe my education would facilitate a career change. Maybe it wouldn't. But I damn sure would not have career expectations of an academic educational institution. Over half who graduate from those places never work in the field they study.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

14. I went to a traditional university and a community college

and I found my experience at the community college to be far more interesting, both academically and personally, primarily because most of the students at the community college were there not because mommy and daddy told them to go there, but because they knew they wanted to achieve something.

I thankfully didn't have to deal with the Greek system, which was so pervasive at my 4-year school, nor did I have to deal with the trust fund babies and the jocks.

The professors also seemed more interested in teaching, rather than publishing. Some of the most liberal thinking professors were at the community college.

If I had to do it all again, I'd do it the same way: bachelor's first and a more specialist degree at a community college later.

Of course, I also went to school when tuition was a little less expensive.

[aikoaiko]

15. As long as I could afford the traditional four year, then yes, but avoid any significant loans

If I couldn't pay, get family aid, or scholarships, then I wouldn't go into debt just to have the college experience.

In these times, its really stupid to use students for a lot of degrees, but loans can be good investments in careers if done correctly.


edited to add: I've been trying to come up with rules of thumb on loans. Either no more total loans than 50% of your expected starting salary, or monthly payments not to exceed 10% of your expected take-home pay per month. Those are the upper limits and I think people should generally shoot for much lower or no loans at all these days.

[Hepburn]

16. College was great....

...especially the part about being a Little Sister to the biggest animal house frat going!

:evilgrin:

[marmar]

20. I was never into the frat thing, but the few frat parties I went to were...interesting.

More than a few of those people didn't return to U of Michigan the second year.

[Hepburn]

21. Had NO interest in the Greek thing after trying out a Sorority for about 2 weeks.

But....being a Little Sister for the biggest Animal House around was not exactly a frat thing, to say the least.

When I was in a sorority, they spent about two hours teaching us bullshit like what is the correct way to smoke a cigarette and putting rules on us like we could not wear pants on campus for ANY reason.

Ummmmmm...I said a quick good-bye! :hi:

[RadicalTexan]

23. No

I owe $50,000 for a BA and a master's - both in English. I do not want to teach.

I am 30 years old. I am just now making enough to BEGIN to pay back my loans and break even - they've been in forbearance, collecting interest.

I am a secretary.

I am a wage slave.

I am trapped.

I wish I had gone the trade (probably carpentry or stonemasonry) route, and read my English lit at the public library. I think about this question EVERY SINGLE DAY.

[mitchum]

32. I am somewhat in agreement with you...

I also have a BA in English and a year in grad school.
I chose that route because "it would be really easy"
And it was VERY easy...because I had already read all of the primary texts and many of the secondary texts.
Although I don't use my specific academic background in my current career, I would not otherwise have my job
because I needed a degree in "something" in order to obtain it. And I love my job.
But the degree requirement is a hustle and hoop jump.
Don't beat yourself up over your decision.

[mdmc]

28. 1

1

[rug]

29. I asked my daughter what she would do if someone gave her $40,000 a year for the next four years.

Going to college was not her first choice.

[KoKo]

33. Many kids would be better off today getting "Certificate in HVAC/Computer Repair/Home Health Aides

than 4-Year. It would be less expensive and give greater income as Boomer generation (that vast Magilla) becomes older and start retiring.

There is still room for those who want to go on and even get to Ph.D level. But forcing kids to take on debt when there are other opportunities that might give them better income without huge school loans might be worth a thought for both kids and parents...in these times. In these Times...I repeat.