Is it possible for a white male to be discriminated against

[leftofthedial]

on the basis of his race and/or sex?

[Cant trust em]

1. It is possible for one white male to be discriminated against

But in terms of systemic discrimination, no.

[Romulox]

3. Please explain: "in terms of systematic discrimination, no"

:shrug:

[el_bryanto]

14. I think he means that in America, Whites and White Males have most of the power.

You can go into a minority owned business and be discriminated against, but you can always go across the street and find a white owned business.

Minorities can't necessarily do that.

Bryant

[Romulox]

17. Right. But does it follow that it's somehow OK to discriminate against certain persons

because that discrimination is "balanced out" by either a) some other preferential treatment; or b) some adverse treatment suffered by another group?

[el_bryanto]

20. No of course it's not ok; it's just not a societal problem

It's a local or localized problem. White discrimination is far more of a problem for society as a whole because whites have much more power.

Bryant

[Romulox]

24. I don't think you acknowledge that discrimination is wrong on one hand,

and on the other, deem it "not a societal problem", because it is "localized" (everything is situated in one locus or another, after all...) I suspect you mean that such discrimination is so uncommon as to be not worthy of note, but of course, this is not true.

"whites have much more power..."

I'd agree with that, but the problem with this assertion is that race is simply not the primary source of power in this country--money is. And it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against anyone in our society based on social class. Which is why, in my opinion, supporters of Affirmative Action are so vehemently opposed to class based consideration. After all, it is not the mediocre sons of wealthy families who are denied access by affirmative action--"legacy" admissions and social networks buoy them through life (John Kerry and George W. Bush, neither men scholars, and both admitted to the Ivy League via inherited privilege as "legacy" students come to mind.)

[el_bryanto]

30. So you think that white males are the ones who have it rough in our society?

Good luck with that.

On the other hand I agree that class is just as important as race, if not more so.

Bryant

[Romulox]

32. I think the lower classes are the ones who have it rough, full stop.

As I mentioned above, I believe the focus on race as the primary ground of discrimination in our society is designed to protected those already entrenched in power.

In short, race-based Affirmative Action does not threaten the power of the wealthy, but income based Affirmative Action would.

"Good luck with that."

Come on. I never said "white males are the ones who have it rough..." I am specifically saying that I don't believe race is the primary basis of discrimination in our society, but rather class is.

[el_bryanto]

35. I think it's a combination of the two

I mean i don't think you can discount the affect of race by saying it's all class. Again take my example above - a white person can if they choose stay around white people all the time (whether they make that choice consciously or unconsciously). A minority doesn't have that option.

Now granted, a middle class black who can project middle class values will probably have an easier time in society than a lower class white who can't; I'll grant you that. But a lower class black still has a few extra strikes against them compared to a lower class white.

Bryant

[Romulox]

38. I largely agree with you.

Racism is real. I have witnessed it directed at my friends, colleagues and associates (both on a personal and a systemic basis). I actually support an AA scheme that would take race and ethnicity into account, because I believe in the value of diversity for its own sake, especially in fields like law.

That said, it is my thesis that the powers that be have made race the primary and sole prism for analyzing US society precisely because it buttresses and protects their power.

In other words, it's Affirmative Action for rich white guys, (and their wealthy wives, of course!) too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. Of course, a poor white can educate himself out of being poor,

but a poor black cannot educate himself out of being black. (Though gawd knows enough black republicans keep trying).

There is a REASON for 20% of whites living in poverty, and 40% of blacks living in poverty - there IS a racial dimension to the class war and for those who deliberately are discriminating, race, not class, is the determining factor.

[Romulox]

42. Your argument is a variation of the "bootstraps" argument, no?

A poor black person might also "educate himself out of being poor", and, because money trumps all else in America, become one of the ruling class. The reason so many cannot is that there are a myriad of structural barriers that make this impossible. How many of President Obama's inner circle were educated at schools like Wayne State University, or Eastern Michigan University, for example? The answer is few or none--they all were at Harvard and Yale. One can't "educate himself" into the sorts of class connections possessed by the wealthy.

"there IS a racial dimension to the class war and for those who deliberately are discriminating, race, not class, is the determining factor."

You have to see the inherent contradiction in claiming there is a "class war" then say that "class <is not> the determining factor" in the waging of this "class war"! :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. Exceptional individuals can often overcome their backgrounds -

Obama himself is a case in point.

But take two guys, both living in lower income neighborhoods, both of average IQ, one white, one black.

Which is the one who will be turned down more often on job aps because of the way his name is spelled?

Which is the one who will not get the call back interview, once the employer has laid eyes on him?

Which is the one who gets followed around the store by suspicious clerks?

Which is the one who, driving a new car, will get pulled over for simply driving a new car?

Which one has the better chance of avoiding jail?

All else being equal, these two guys are NOT treated equally by society. Just as an individual black can overcome society's prejudice, an individual white can suffer from prejudice, but with society as a whole, things are way stacked in the white guy's favor. Things have improved, a LOT, over the past 30 years, but there's a long way to go.

[Romulox]

56. Both of the lower income men will be discriminated against on the basis of class all of their lives.

Do you really think there is a road that leads from my working class neighborhood to the boardroom or the halls of power? There is not. That is not to say that racism does not exist, or that, all being equal, a black man and a white man of the same class will not face unequal obstacles.

However, both the lower class black man and the lower class white man will face life long disadvantages as compared to an upper middle class person of color.

At any rate, this diametric opposition of race and class is precisely what I'm talking about; racism exists, and this fact does not obviate the reality of class based discrimination. Indeed, class based discrimination is endemic in our society because many take it for granted that it is a natural ordering of society, such that the goal of Affirmative Action, for instance, should be to produce more upper-middle-class persons of color who may then exercise their privilege over the lower classes of all races--this is the twisted version of "egalitarianism" we have bought into.

[CTyankee]

74. As someone who lives in New Haven, home of Yale U., I agree with you completely.

I think there SHOULD be an affirmative action for graduates of Wayne State or any other school across this country when it comes to consideration for the Supreme Court. And I hope it will. But only thru an atmosphere of acceptance and cooperation will this take place. Liberals will see to it, make no mistake, but they have to be encouraged to do so.

We need more geographical diversity on our Supreme Court. Diversity is a blessing and should be revered. Let's do it. Please....

[KatyMan]

45. Exactly

There is a REASON for 20% of whites living in poverty, and 40% of blacks living in poverty - there IS a racial dimension to the class war and for those who deliberately are discriminating, race, not class, is the determining factor.

Not to mention the white who is poor may be that way as a result of poor education, bad luck, bad health, a myriad of factors, and while those factors exist for the poor black, they also run up against the fact that they're poor because American society for nearly 500 years has been geared to specifically make them that way and keep them that way.

[kiva]

33. Exactly.

The privileged sons are insulated.

[BolivarianHero]

2. Yes it is...

That's just common sense. But in most societies, White males are not victims of institutionalized bigotry or discrimination.

[arcadian]

22. You have never lived in Hawai'i

[plcdude]

4. Of course

it is. Every human being has this opportunity. I am sure there have been times that I as white male have discriminated against other white males.

[guitar man]

25. I know I have

and I'm a white male too. I remember back in the 90s I was putting together a Funk/Soul/R&B band and I wanted a black bass player and a black lead vocalist in the band, period. Was my discrimination a bad thing? I don't know.

[valerief]

5. Yes, because the percentage of white males who are incarcerated against those not...

Wait, no, those are black males who are discriminated against.

Never mind.

[Romulox]

6. It's acceptable to discriminate against white males in our society, especially if blue collar

Modern race theory posits that discrimination against marginalized whites (primarily the working class) sanctifies the unearned privilege that the elite continue to enjoy.

[dolphindance]

31. I don't care how poor you are. Being white gives you higher social status.

Period.

Yes, it is possible for a white to be discriminated against in a specific, discrete, example.

But as many have said before, he has choices. And he has the entire, powerful, white society ready to give him support.

[Romulox]

34. I don't care what color you are. Being rich trumps all else in the USA.

"And he has the entire, powerful, white society ready to give him support."

Care to elaborate on this point? How does a poor, uneducated white guy tap into the "entire, powerful, white society" which is "ready to give him support" (the fact that this person is impoverished, and therefore has not previously had access to this support notwithstanding)?

[leftofthedial]

63. :-)

[Gwendolyn]

7. Yes, at my last place of employment we preferred to hire women. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. *looks at calendar* Is today "national ask a stupid question day"? n/t

[Cant trust em]

13. No. That day is election day.

The question is would you like to vote for a democrat or a republican.

Zing!

[leftofthedial]

76. Considering the "yes" and "no" answers are about equally divided,

I'd say the question was anything but stupid.

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. Anyone who believes that it is impossible to discriminate against white men

a) should on no account be put in a position of authority, and
b) doesn't need a special day, stupid is a way of life.

[leftofthedial]

83. and now you know that, indeed, *many* "liberals" believe exactly that

thanks to my "stupid" question

[Avalux]

9. Yes but it depends on the situation.

ANYONE can be discriminated against - no matter the race or sex. If a white male is in a situation where he is clearly the minority and those in power, those making decisions are a majority of another race and/or sex, then discrimination is possible.

[kiva]

10. It is if you believe that there is a serious problem

with class discrimination. Many of the things we point to that are at the heart of discrimination in America--inadequate education, poor access to health care, marginalization by society--affect all who are at the bottom of the ladder, regardless of race.

[OHdem10]

11. In politics Perception is reality. Large groups of Americans would

answer yes to this question. Perception is often more
important than reality.

Affirmative action is necessary in some cases. There are
those who will see this as one group being favored over
another group and therefore one group is being discriminated against.

We will not change this thinking. The firefighter case confirms
this for some.

[SidneyCarton]

12. Possible, sure.

Will the effects of this discrimination be as problematic, or potentially devastating to his future career as it would be for a woman or minority, not likely.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Only in extremely limited, fringe situations.

For example, I could imagine a basketball coach who wrongly assumes a prospective white player would be less talented.

[TahitiNut]

16. In the Jim Crow south, the only thing lower than a "n_____" was ...

... a "n_____-lover." That was ALL about race ... and the threat of violence or death (e.g. "Mississippi Burning") for the unforgivable social sin of being a "traitor to race." Such attitudes aren't in the soil or controlled by the calendar ... and were not limited to just the south or just THAT time.

We each live in a different world. We look out at our personal world and "see" a very unique and personal reality. From the glances of other people one passes on the street, to the body language of bureaucrats with whom we must interact, to the attitudes of business people, to the posture of the teachers in our schools, to the reaction of potential employers (or mates), we are inundated with impressions both overt and subliminal. Further, we are each equipped and trained to frame that daily, hourly, and minute-by-minute experience -- even when viewing visual media (magazines, TV, movies) and seeing other with whome we can relate to one degree or another. We react. We tell ourselves our "stories" ... almost without noticing. Continuously. While it's easy to oversimplify and pretend there are larger, shared worlds, the reality is they're each unique. When we buy in to the oversimplifications, we lose.

When I keep this in mind, I find that I'm more inclined to make those individual worlds better places as I travel through them by my glance or attitude or expression ... in that moment in time that I pass another human being. In so doing, I actually find myself improving my own world.

[Peacetrain]

23. CORE...just to vote, just to vote.

I remember, and I look at what constitutes the Republican party today, the Palin rallies.. they are still there. I will never forget

[TahitiNut]

28. Yup. It happened the same week I left the "Heart of Dixie" to move back north.

I lived in THAT south. I came within an eyelash of volunteering and climbing on a "Freedom Summer" bus to help out. The organizations involved included the NAACP, CORE, SCLC and the SNCC. I was leaning towards SNCC and SDC.

[Peacetrain]

54. If I sit and look back, and stay too long in that memory.

Its almost more than I can take.

[MADem]

18. Absolutely. It's possible for anyone to be discriminated against

on the basis of ANY characteristic.

Race, sex, gender, nationality, appearance, age, weight, height, intellectual capacity (or lack of same), health (mental or physical, or both), you name it. It happens every day in many venues.

[Palin delenda est]

19. Any human can be discriminated against for a myriad of reasons (excuses).

What kind of strange question is that?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Sure, but it's not institutionalized.

[Iggo]

26. Yes.

If someone is a member of a race, they can be discriminated against because of that race.

Doesn't matter which race it is.

A friend of mine when I was in high school used to have this argument with his grandfather all them time. His grandfather, who was African American, used to tell him "Black folks can't be racist." I can see now they were coming at it from two different directions, having two diferent definitions of what a racist is. But man, they used to go at it!

[TexasObserver]

27. Of course it is. It's possible for anyone to be discriminated against.

silly question

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Of Course

[noamnety]

36. Individuals can discriminate against individuals

for any reason at all, from not hiring a person because they wore crocs to an interview to discounting someone's opinion because they have a southern accent.

The institutions in this nation overwhelmingly favor white males, including the books we are mandated to read in public schools, the white males running most media companies controlling the airwaves, role models in movies, corporations using poor (read minority) neighborhoods as their personal toilet for toxic waste because those are the neighborhoods with the least resources to be able to fight back, to laws which favor passing on generational wealth (which only whites were allowed to accrue without restrictions in those previous generations), to clothing laws which attempt to codify "white christian" fashions, the legacy of funding discrepancies in public education ... I could go on, but you get the idea.

[I Have A Dream]

37. In my opinion, yes. nt

[Deja Q]

40. Of course it is.

Depending on situation and context, anyone can be.

[Orsino]

41. Sure.

It's only sensible, though, to ask who's doing the discrimination and to what degree--and no amount of reverse discrimination can negate the fact of white male privilege.

[BlooInBloo]

43. Assuming the ACTUAL history of the ACTUAL country? Or some fantasy history?

[Romulox]

57. We live in the present day, not in history. The question is phrased in the present tense. nt

[BlooInBloo]

60. Ah - so the fantasy history of NO history. Genius... Then sure...

In the fantasy where there is no such thing as history, 'yes' would be the answer to the question. Assuming that which is asinine and false.

[Romulox]

61. History must NEVER be disregarded, but it is not an excuse.

History must never be disregarded, but is it not an excuse to practice injustices today.

[noamnety]

81. They're working on that fantasy history right now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6090559

[moondust]

44. Not a legitimate question.

Anybody who thinks that some people are somehow immune from discrimination does not understand discrimination.

Enough of the white male bashing.

[TexasObserver]

48. It is a hit and run posting.

It's flamebait, not legitimate inquiry.

[Bonn1997]

50. The OP has over 1000 posts. I highly doubt he's going to now run away from the forum.

[TexasObserver]

55. A "hit and run posting" is starting a flamebait stink bomb, then leaving the scene.

It's starting a thread that is flamebait, then leaving the stink bomb there for it to draw attention.

THAT is what he or she did, and THAT is what I was referring to.

[leftofthedial]

66. interruptions happen in life.

so does ignorant name calling.

[TexasObserver]

71. Okey Dokey, if that's your story.

[leftofthedial]

78. That's magnanimous of you!

Spoken like a true Texan.

[TexasObserver]

80. You're welcome.

As a Texan, it's part of my duty to provide Colorado with jobs. We take supporting our vacation spot seriously. There are three or four really worthy vacation spots there.

[proteus_lives]

46. Yes,

Because their are racist blacks, asians, hispanics, indians, gays, lesbians, etc. No one group is above racism.

[LeftishBrit]

47. I suppose it's possible in very specific situations...

e.g. stereotypes about men who want to work with children being paedophiles can make it harder for a male to be employed as a teacher of young children.

However, *overall* society discriminates very much in favour of white males!!!

If this is about the Supreme Court and Republicans accusing Sotomayor of racism - well, since I believe all but 4 Supreme Court justices in history have been white males, so it's ridiculous for the right-wingers to imply that there is unfairness to white males. I honestly think that a lot of them (right-wingers) just hate having a black president in charge.

[Bonn1997]

49. Anyone can be discriminated against. What's the topic? Athletics? A job where empathy is important?

In general, these are rarer cases though. I teach a class on prejudice at a small liberal arts college. Just about every social group has some negative stereotypes (for which corresponding discriminatory behavior exists. You've definitely raised a good question.

[anonymous171]

52. Theoretically, yes. nt

[slackmaster]

53. Sure, but being discriminated against for age is a much bigger problem

:hi:

[Romulox]

58. The number one basis for discriminating against a person in the US is $$$

(or lack thereof).

Children are the group most likely to live in poverty in these United States; the elderly are the wealthiest.

[leftofthedial]

68. ABSOLUTELY true.

It's money that we love!


They say that money
Can't buy love in this world
But it'll get you a half-pound of cocaine
And a sixteen-year old girl
And a great big long limousine
On a hot September night
Now that may not be love
But it is all right

One, two
It's Money That I Love
Wanna kiss you Three, four
It's Money That I Love

Used to worry about the poor
But I don't worry anymore
Used to worry about the black man
Now I don't worry about the black man
Used to worry about the starving children of India
You know what I say about the starving children of India ?
I say, "Oh mama"

It's Money That I Love
It's Money That I Love
It's Money That I Love

[leftofthedial]

70. that's certainly been my experience.

[FarCenter]

59. White male non-veterans have no legal preferences

At least from the time they are too old to be covered by child labor laws until they reach the age discrimination laws.

Every other group is a "protected group" in one law or another.

[noamnety]

73. ooof.

(DU - are we addressing this or letting it slide?)

[Xenotime]

62. No.

[undeterred]

64. Not in our country.

[aaaaaa5a]

65. YES! If you want an example, go to any family court-room in America. NT

[Hepburn]

67. IMO, it is possible for ANYONE to be discriminated against. n/t

[lunatica]

69. Duh!

[heppcatt]

72. Yes anyone can be.

[lexanman]

75. its possible for discrimination to happen to anyone

discrimination is not the same as racism. I can discriminate to pick wheat bread over rye. It depends on why Ive chosen one or the other. Im assuming you mean racial discrimination. Its never right, however the vast majority of racial discrimination affects minority populations. Same with sex. I can pick a man over a woman to hire on the basis of sex and it would be wrong. And Vice Versa.

[rucky]

77. I think a guy won a lawsuit against Hooters awhile back.

[Liquorice]

79. Yes on both accounts. nt