Obama Administration Green Lights Clear-Cut in America's Largest Stand of Temperate Rain Forest

[Orwellian_Ghost]

Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack gave his personal approval for a 381-acre clear-cut in America's largest stand of temperate rain forest.


The Obama administration has approved the sale of timber from the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The 17-million acre forest is the largest stand of continuous temperate rain forest in the U.S. and contains a lot of old-growth trees. It's basically a snapshot of what the world looked like before we rolled heavy onto the scene.

The U.S. Forest Service gave the green light for the sale after approval from Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack who stated in May that he would be the final gatekeeper on all decisions to sell timber from roadless ares of the national forests.

This first sale will come after seven miles of roads are built for the 381-acre clear-cut. This makes Hulk mad. Vilsack said that the main reason he approved the sale was to provide jobs to the area. Here's a radical idea -- those loggers should get new jobs not involving cutting down old-growth trees.

<snip>

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/obama-administration-green-lights-logging-in-tongass

Obama Administration Approves First Roadless Logging Contract In Alaska's Tongass National Forest

This week, the Obama administration approved the sale of timber in a roadless national forest in Alaska. The Tongass National Forest is a 17 million acre temperate rain forest in southeast Alaska, which is home to both endangered species and native Alaskan tribes. It is the largest temperate rain forest in the United States.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/obama-administration-appr_n_235311.html

[Orwellian_Ghost]

1. How did someone

so quickly UNREC this?

Wow. Is this the new Thought Police that can't stand even a simple fact that upsets their cult of personality apple cart?


This isn't even debatable and yet some folks obviously don't want the truth to see the light of day. Another small example of how perilous the docile obedient crowd can be.

[dionysus]

25. minus points. you mustered up a "cult" but you forgot to scream "obamabot".

or "messiah". try harder.

[dolphindance]

2. Already another thread about this in Late Breaking News.

You can go bitch about it in there.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

4. Are you okay

with this policy?

Are you just upset that this news is visible? Would you too rather censor this?

[dolphindance]

7. I'm not OK with a board that only highlights Obama's so-called "mistakes".

This is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. We are supposed to lift him up, not put him down.

[Joe Fields]

11. So, you're a democrat first, and an American second?

Just to be clear, this board is really in uncharted waters, as it was started during the Bush administration. So, we aren't supposed to criticize, unless the president is from the opposition party?

Wow.

[dolphindance]

20. American first, huh? Sounds just like those racists who opposed Obama in the Primaries.

Now I see where you are coming from.

[Hannah Bell]

34. sure you do.

[Control-Z]

71. Gawd, where are all these

trolls new members coming from? I've never seen so many at one time. It's like walking into a cockroach infested apartment.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

22. Well

and I thought he and the Congress were suppose to serve the American people.

You might wish to re-read the oath of office. So might he.

[solstice]

26. No, HE is supposed to lift US up.

[elehhhhna]

69. or, we ALREADY lifted him UP, and he needs to do OUR FRIKKIN BIDDING.

It used to be called "governance"

[backtoblue]

53. Democrats make mistakes, too. Doesn't mean that we are putting him down.

Accountability is part of being a leader.

[villager]

8. You're new to DU -- we occasionaly do "bitch" about habitat destruction

environmental degradation, biosphere destruction, etc.

Glad to see the bioshpere you live in seems to be separate, however, and immune to destruction!

[dolphindance]

10. No, there is too much fun to be had in life than to worry about every little thing.

Like getting laid.
Or playing your favorite computer game.
Or eating fine foods.
Or listening to some great, swinging jazz.

I love our President and will support him cause he has one of the toughest jobs in the world.

[Forkboy]

16. Does it bother your beautiful mind?

[Joe Fields]

37. ROFLMAO...thanks forkboy.

[villager]

21. you keep on playing computer games while they clearcut the forests....

You're exactly where they want you...

[dolphindance]

24. I will. And you continue to lose sleep over a little teeny square of forest.

Sheez.

[villager]

28. Don't get out much, do you?

Sheez.

[tekisui]

49. Well, go do some of those things instead of getting worked up

about posts on this discussion board.

[dolphindance]

57. Fine! I will then! I've about had it with DU. (n/t)

[tekisui]

59. LOL!

:rofl:

That's the funniest post I have read in a while. Thanks for the laugh.

[Control-Z]

72. Now that's got to be a record.

38 posts, and you've about had it with DU?

:rofl:

I guess we're doing something right here.

[anonymous171]

3. As a member of the DU thought police, I am obligated to unrec this thread. nt

[Orwellian_Ghost]

5. At least you are an honest

storm trooper. Probably waiting for another Palmer Raid?

Did you know Mitchell Palmer was a leading liberal Democrat and a Quaker?

[dionysus]

18. ooh, invoke nazis more... it makes you look more credible.

[bvar22]

66. "Storm Trooper" is a little much.

Political Correctness Commissar would be closer to the truth,
and I'm afraid you have attracted their attention.
You should report to a Party before Policy re-education camp, Comrade.

"Centrism" is really easy once you let go.
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to "unrec" those who do.
Really peaceful. Not so much thinking and stuff like that.

[Joe Fields]

14. I am obligated to recommend this thread.

[Echo In Light]

6. Goddamn liberals!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

13. Alaska's U.S. senators, Lisa Murkowski and Mark Begich, both praised Vilsack's approval

"Just building the road will cost four times as much revenue as the Forest Service is going to get from the timber sale," said Waldo of Earthjustice.

Alaska's U.S. senators, Lisa Murkowski and Mark Begich, both praised Vilsack's approval of Orion North because it would help Southeast's tree-starved loggers.

Begich said it was relatively small but "a good first step" for the secretary's new policy.

Murkowski's statement said she would have been "extremely concerned" if Vilsack had blocked the sale.

"Instead, I am heartened that the secretary has recognized the importance of maintaining an environmentally sound timber industry in Southeast Alaska," she said.

http://juneauempire.com/stories/071509/loc_463956344.shtml

[SpartanDem]

9. But they also added protection to 2.6 million acres

Not surprisingly this story this hasn't received nearly the amount of attention over the loss of the 381 in Tongass. You also have to keep mind that areas that are cut will be replanted

Obama Admin Scraps Logging Plan in Ore. Carbon Sinks

The Interior Department is dropping controversial plans to dramatically increase logging in western Oregon's forests, some of the nation's densest carbon stores.

The move scraps a Bush-era decision to rezone 2.6 million acres of Bureau of Land Management forests, which would have tripled current logging production and opened old-growth forests to clear-cutting. The attempt prompted a lawsuit by 13 environmental groups after the rule was finalized late last year.



http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2009/07/17/17climatewire-obama-admin-scraps-logging-plan-in-ore-carbo-10938.html

[dionysus]

17. you know the OP also read that. his other attempt at outrage today is currently blowing up in his

face so he has to try another one.

[bvar22]

67. Old Growth Rain Forest....

...can NEVER be replaced.
It is NOT a "renewable" resource.

[FarCenter]

12. Only 381 acres out of 16,900,000 acres in the forest?

Besides, old growth forest is the least productive with fully mature trees shading out the forest floor.

[dionysus]

19. oh, citing cumbersome *facts* now are we?

:thumbsup:

[villager]

23. of course, the destruction that the road will abet will be much greater....

"facts on the ground," and all that..

[dionysus]

27. yes but the OP would like it to look like obama is personally clearcutting the entire forest and

then salting the earth behind him

[villager]

29. ah, well, it's only his administration that's doing it, after all

Best we don't hold him responsible for their actions...

[dionysus]

30. despite the fact that bad logging occurs, you do know that people still use wood for stuff, right?

[villager]

38. you do know that's a really hare-brained logging industry type argument, right?

And is really beside the point in discussing destruction of an old growth forest.

Nor is it a particularly "Dionysian" point of view, ironically...

[bvar22]

68. These are the same people....

...who discounted concerns about Obama's conservative appointments.

Let me see if I can remember.
The talking point THEN was,
"Obama is The Boss. They have to follow Obama's orders.
They can't set policy.
This is a brilliant chess move because now they have to do what Obama tells them to do."

That seem familiar to you?
I am cursed with a memory.

[FarCenter]

33. Will we be able to get Google "Street View"?

[blindpig]

46. So, that's all a forest is good for, eh?

Tree plantations are biological deserts compared to old growth.

[dionysus]

15. because your other diaper-filling diatribe went over so well

:rofl:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. So Obama is Satan because 0.0023% of Tongass will be cut down?

Really?

Quick question - what's your house made of?

[dionysus]

32. it was made of hypebole and magic dennis kucinich dust.

[backtoblue]

35. Once it starts, it doesn't stop.

I live on the outskirts of a National Forest. There is constant logging and re-planting, but the animal habitat is being forced out into surrounding rural areas. We have black bear sightings regularly in my town of about 5,000. The Tongass is home to a whole host of species, and I do not believe that we have a paper or furniture shortage crisis right now. Logging there is a bad idea - no matter who makes the decision.

[FarCenter]

36. Production of timber and logging is one of the reasons for having National Forests

They are not nature preserves.

[villager]

39. but they are public lands, and not the fiefdoms of timber companies

who command the government to sell them *our* timber at below market rates...

[FarCenter]

41. I don't have any problem with charging market prices

Sell it by auction.

[backtoblue]

40. There are other forests that can be logged.

Alaska's forest was not planted for logging, but there are some others that are. I just think we shouldn't tap into a natural habitat unless it is absolutely necessary.

[villager]

43. and these aren't "planted" forests we're talking about, but primeval

old growth ones, that can't be replaced

[backtoblue]

44. That's what I mean

Those aren't the pine forests that are planted for logging like what I live around- that is an untouched natural forest that should remain as such.

[villager]

48. I figured. And do we want to keep transforming mature forests -- watersheds -- into tree farms?

n/t

[backtoblue]

51. Absolutely not.

I honestly thought more people would be put off by this, even if it is "just a few acres". We were against drilling and I don't see how this ecological disturbance is less relevant. One road will generally lead to another and when money starts to be made - let the timber fall. : (

[villager]

54. the tragedy of the species is that homo sapiens don't "get" forests, anymore

ask the guy up thread, who'd rather be playing videogames...

[backtoblue]

56. R.I.P. Tongass.

Some people are content with their dilusions - and distractions. nt

[PretzelWarrior]

42. you are full of it.

[tekisui]

50. How so? They reported a fact. How does that make them full of it?

[apocalypsehow]

45. And I'll bet they roast weenies in the Rose Garden about it just to piss you off, wanna bet? n/t.

[LiberalAndProud]

47. They are building 7 miles of roads

in order to clear-cut 381 acres.

381 acres is equal to 0.60 square miles.

It could be worse.

[tekisui]

52. It will get worse.

Our National Parks should not be for sale.

[FarCenter]

60. It is a "National Forest", not a "National Park"

There is a big difference.

[ipaint]

62. What is the purpose of spending

4x the amount the logged trees are worth? That makes no sense.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. 381 acres clearcut vs. 2.6 million acres saved.

Very pouty outrage.

[backtoblue]

58. Why not just save?

I don't think there is that high of a demand for lumber right now and if there was, there are other planted forests to log from. I think it will just lead to more roads and more logging in the future.

[gypsy11]

61. exactly

why must we log an old growth forest? Old growth is just that- old growth. There is not much of that left, and we can't replace it. Not in our lifetimes, or our kids lifetime, or even our grandkids lifetime... In my opinion it is morally wrong to log, let alone clear-cut log, an old growth forest. Bad karma.

[wuvuj]

75. Between old growth and the wolves...

...Obama's building a real nice environmental record?

[ColbertWatcher]

64. Actually, those roads will allow for more clearcutting. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

63. Some people seem to think Tongass is the WORLD's largest intact temperate rainforest ...

"The Tongass National Forest is America's Rainforest. Established by Teddy Roosevelt in 1907, the Tongass is not only America's largest national forest; it is the largest intact temperate rainforest in the world. Stretching over 17 million acres from Ketchikan to Yakutat in southeast Alaska, it is the size of West Virginia. This remote rainforest of ancient trees covers an island landscape marked by narrow inlets and glacier-carved fiords. Its giant Sitka Spruce and other old growth trees are home to wolves, bears, salmon and Bald Eagles--species that have disappeared from many other parts of the country. America's Tongass Rainforest is an incomparable wonder of nature that provides endless recreational opportunities."

(more at the link)

--League of Conservation Voters

More links:

* http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/07/tongass/chadwick-text">National Geographic

* US Forest Service

[bvar22]

70. Drill Baby Drill ?

Cut Baby Cut
Burn Baby Burn
Bomb Baby Bomb

:shrug:

One thing is becoming increasingly clear.
Election 2008 was a crushing defeat for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[HughMoran]

65. Always wait until the last post on this is dying out...

to start up another on the same topic?

[Orwellian_Ghost]

74. Oh c'mon you can do better than that

Now I must admit I have never seen you do better but why not give it a try here.

Of course you always resort to attacking the poster which speaks volumes about your ability to coherently discuss issues. But prove me wrong. Tell me what you think about the issue being discussed in this thread.

Could you just try that once?

[Greyhound]

73. All this spamming requires me to Kick & Recommend this thread.

You've struck a nerve and the longer this stays up, the more angry they get.

Good for you. Keep poking them until they show their true face.
:thumbsup: