In light of the assassination program, a few questions about some people I knew about...

[Octafish]

Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson,
said he thought the assassination program was active, not a hypothetical thing.
Col. Wilkerson said ambassadors and diplomatic staff overseas reported kidnappings and other nefarious operations in their posted nations.



Well, if Cheney's secret program was killing people overseas, what was to stop them from killing people within the United States? The CIA wasn't supposed to operate domestically by law, but they do. Specifically, I'd like to know if Cheney's secret team was involved with these convenient deaths:

Michael Connell (Election Fraud Technical Guru)

John Kokal (No WMDs in Iraq)

David Kelly (No WMDs in Iraq)

Cliff Baxter (ENRON #2)

Gary Webb (CIA drugs)

Jim Hatfield (Bush bin Laden connection)

Deborah Palfrey (Washington Madame knew everybody from Congress-White House-CIA-Contracting Scam)

Raymond Lemme (Election Fraud)

Athan Gibbs (Election Fraud)

Paul Wellstone (Official White House Enemy)

Here are more people who died under suspicious circumstances while investigating, eh, government perfidy:

Danny Casolaro (Octopus investigator)

Abbie Hoffman (October Surprise investigator)

Steve Kangas (Powers-That-Be investigator)

Mark Lombardi (Conspiracies In Action investigator)

More details here:

Know your BFEE: Dead Men Tell No Tales

and here:

Know your BFEE: 1984 Death of Outstanding Congressional Staffer Buried Poppy-Moon Relationship

One more thing: Why is Cheney taking the heat for the assassination program? Sneer was the Veep to Smirk.

The little turd from Crawford was very horny for war.

Know your BFEE: Bush has Killed a Million Innocent People for Their Oil.

Bush even said Money Trumps Peace. Sometimes.

God knows that's nowhere near close to everybody, unfortunately. In infinite ways.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. ROFLMAO!!!!!

"Well, if Cheney's secret program was killing people overseas, what was to stop them from killing people within the United States?"

Oh how I love flawed logic!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rucky]

2. must be an inside joke

[Frosty1]

5. Me think he doth protest to much

m/t

[jgraz]

55. Everything OMC posts is a joke

[Jim Sagle]

59. He grinds out a living at it. Five bucks an hour ain't much but it might be the best he can do.

[Moochy]

66. I thought he was the bouncer at the Olive Garden

[aquart]

162. If he can't even make minimum wage...

That's an American tragedy.

[tnlefty]

79. Yep! and in my first attempt ever, I'll repeat what another

DU'er stated ....he's had multiple posts deleted, so who is he fucking?

Hopefully this will be my first deleted post ever, and not the dreaded pizza!

[Raster]

141. You're being far too charitable.

[jgraz]

150. Yep, that's me: Far-Too-Charitable Guy.

:P

[tekisui]

3. The program has been reported as 'no geographicl limits'.

And that they were cleared to operate inside the US.

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/16/report-no-geographical-limitations-on-cia-assassination-program/

[jwirr]

23. When did Paul Wellstone die and when was this program authorized?

In other words do the dates match up?

[felinetta]

37. He died Oct 25 2002 right before the his Senat election.

[jgraz]

90. Perfect timing if you wanted to throw the election

Just early enough that he wouldn't be on the ballot, but late enough that no new candidate could gain a foothold.

Almost like somebody planned it that way...

[Jackpine Radical]

132. They learned from Carnahan.

Carnahan died in a "mysterious" plane crash in 2000, but too soon before the election & his widow had time to get it together to replace him on the ballot and beat John Ashcroft.

With Wellstone, there were only a few days left before the election when his plane crashed in N. Minn.

[Raster]

151. Yes, and waiting in the wings was cheney*/bush*/rove*'s handpicked

candidate--Norm "the turncoat" Coleman.

[defendandprotect]

166. The Wellstone crash included his wife, Sheila + daughter, Marcia . . ..

3 staff members and 2 pilots

[truedelphi]

181. Thank you for remembering them too.

It was a massacre, not just a murder.

[defendandprotect]

183. Right . . . was trying to point out that in Carnahan case there was the option ...

of the wife being put into the race --

In Wellstone case, they pretty much took the entire family!!!

Are we ever going to get anything done about this political violence???

Corporate press never, of course, mentions it!!

[dflprincess]

205. Carnahan was killed when it was too late to change the ballot.

Mel Carnahan's name stayed on it and Ashcroft actually was beaten by a dead man. Jane Carnahan was appointed to the seat by the governor.

As the other poster mentioned, Wellstone's death was timed so his name couldn't stay on the ballot and the DFL had to scramble for a candidate. They also learned from the Carnahan crash by not leaving a widow behind. And, his daughter Marcia who was the Wellstone "child" who seemed most likely to go into politics herself was also killed in the crash.

[Raster]

145. Somebody DID plan it that way. If there was one person in the United States Congress that could...

...AND WOULD put a crimp in cheney*/bush*'s plans to invade Iraq, to plunder the treasury and rape Lady Liberty, it was Senator Paul Wellstone. Wellstone was not owned or beholden to ANY corporate interests. Wellstone proved over and over again he was elected to serve his constituents and protect their interests. His loyalties and integrity were NEVER IN DOUBT! Wellstone, unlike Clinton, Obama and host of others in the Senate was not fooled--actual or feigned--by the cheney*/bush* junta. Wellstone made no secret that he believed cheney*/bush* were NEVER legally and lawfully elected. cheney*/bush* and their minions could marginalize a Cynthia McKinney or a Dennis Kucinich, but they could never marginalize Paul Wellstone.

Senator Paul Wellstone was assassinated--ruthlessly murdered in cold blood--because he stood in the way of what we all know now to be the cheney*/bush* debacle on the most grandest of scales. Would Wellstone have stood back like so many others as cheney*/bush* ran roughshod over the Constitution of the United States? No, he would not have. He would have spoken--no, yelled--loudly, and people would have listened.

Senator Paul Wellstone's murder--and that of his wife Sheila--not only removed the greatest advocate of the people from the chambers of Congress, his assassination also served as a warning to other members of Congress to sit down, shut up and vote for whatever odious piece of garbage floated by the White House.

Long live the memory of Senator Paul Wellstone and FUCK YOU cheney*/bush* and your corporate enablers!:kick:

[Jim Sagle]

185. It was sometime after Bush Sr., alluding to Wellstone, asked: 'Who is this chickenshit?'

This quote can be found in numerous articles, including the salon.com eulogy by Michelle Goldberg (bolding mine):

"He was sort of like the ideal progressive coalition all in one," says David Moberg, a senior editor at In These Times who has known Wellstone for years and has written about him often. "He inspired passion among labor unions and an equivalent passion among environmentalists. Minority groups felt passionate about him, women voted overwhelmingly for him." And he got under the skin of his opponents -- the first George Bush, annoyed at the freshman senator's incessant questioning at a reception for new members of Congress, asked one of his aides: "Who is this chickenshit?"

Safe to say, motive established.

[mod mom]

133. Wow I missed that. Thanks for posting! Here is TPM's coverage:

Report: CIA Assassin Program Could Operate Anywhere -- Even Inside U.S.

By Zachary Roth - July 16, 2009, 11:31AM
Since the news broke (sub. req.) at the start of the week that CIA director Leon Panetta had pulled the plug on a secret program to assassinate or capture al Qaeda leaders, we've been raising questions about one key aspect of the story. In particular, what was it about the program that was so shocking that Dick Cheney reportedly ordered it kept secret from Congress, Panetta quashed it as soon as he heard about it, and Congressional Democrats risked being painted as soft on terror by shrieking about being kept in the dark?

We may have gotten a good piece of the answer here: The Washington Post reports today on how the program had been revived and then put on hold several times since 2001. But it also says, referring to the "presidential finding" with which President Bush authorized the program in 2001:
The finding imposed no geographical limitations on the agency's actions, and intelligence officials have said that they were not obliged to notify Congress of each operation envisaged under the directive.
"No geographical limitations" presumably means that operations could potentially be carried out in countries, friendly or unfriendly, that are far from any war zone -- including even the US itself. And it seems likely that they would be carried out without notifying the foreign country in question.

-snip

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/report_cia_assassin_program_could_operate_anywhere.php

[readmoreoften]

9. Your comment is completely irrational.

There is nothing illogical about questioning the power limits of the most powerful government on earth. Maybe you should have cut down on your rolling smilies and provided an actual critique.

Another FOXNEWS Democrat. All smear, no argument.

[Enthusiast]

159. Faux Democrat, you mean.

[Octafish]

11. How is it funny?

Please tell. "Flawed logic"? All of those listed died under suspicious circumstances that served to benefit the warmongers who've hijacked America's government.

How you can find that funny says a lot.

[nashville_brook]

27. amen to that.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mnemosyne]

73. Nor have a battle of wits,

with an unarmed tro, er, person.

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. which part of this are you displaying in your above post?

Your profile says:
It's all about integrity, respect, honesty, decency, open mindedness, fairness, and genuine desire to wish good upon all. That is why I'm a liberal.

[peacetalksforall]

20. Where is it? The flawed logic.

Also, some of us are impaired, we don't like to see things flashing at the periphery - it exacerbates while you exaggerate.

[rucky]

82. The flawed logic is:

That a self-appointed protector of critical thinking makes it a point to ridicule anybody who raises questions.

[caseymoz]

160. You might have raised a question first and laughed afterward but . . .

. . . to do so would require logic on your part.

The history of the CIA has shown that it has never limited itself to international operations, as its charter says. In fact, presidents have ordered it to carry out domestic operations despite its charter. If people overseas were threatening enough to assassinate, its perfectly logical that people living domestically would probably be considered more, not less, dangerous.

[rucky]

174. I'm with you.

I was referring to a pattern the laughing guy tends to show in every thread like this.

[RaleighNCDUer]

120. Of course it's flawed logic. There is no rational reason for supposing that

an illegal program to assassinate opponants of the regime overseas would ever operate in the US. That would be...illegal.

[wroberts189]

28. I wish I knew what was so funny about this as I could use a laugh. nt

[Canuckistanian]

33. Flawed logic? How so?

The OP was making a conjecture. Do you have some definitive proof there weren't killings inside the US?

[scarletwoman]

47. As always, your detailed analysis & painstakingly reasoned critique do you credit.

Oh, wait...

[DireStrike]

57. Care to share how that logic is flawed?

[rhett o rick]

142. I will try.

Because some people think that Cheney and the CIA had an assassination program for overseas, therefore, they also may have had a similar program in the US.

Personally, I have no trouble believing that Cheney was involved in assassinations thru out the world. But, repeating speculation over and over doesn't get us any closer to proving it.

[DireStrike]

152. That's what the original poster said

And what the responder claimed was "flawed logic".

To be clear, there is no problem at all with the logic in the original post.

[aquart]

163. Why do you think it was a "similar program"?

Why wouldn't it be the SAME program? Because the CIA isn't supposed to operate in the US? Makes me wonder if we had people drawing multiple checks from CIA, Defense, and Homeland Security. I want to know how the money worked. Billions disappeared under BushCo.

[rhett o rick]

176. I was merely trying to work with the "logic" of the poster.

I believe that the ruling class, with their unlimited funds and ambition to rule the world, would and will assassinate their opponents. The logic I use, is "why wouldn't they" have such a program? There is nothing stopping them. They are not limited by morals or laws, as they have proven time and again.

[aquart]

191. Certainly Cheney isn't.

Nor any of his Texas crowd, I would think.

[Time for change]

68. Oh, I get it!

Killing people within the US is a lot different than killing people overseas because.... well, because they're not allowed to kill people here. Right?

[lexanman]

69. This probably hits

a little too close to home, I suppose. I guess questions about people up high who doubted the official explanation for 9/11 being in the assassination program also is a hard thing to deal with. Or is that too tinfoily?

[KakistocracyHater]

101. yes, followers are horrified at the thought, who can they turn to?

Only if another feasible person is around, then they can say ok, otherwise.......it's like finding out your parents kidnapped you & you are only 8. What would you do?

Of course, I LOVE conspiracy theories, love watching youtube for a few hours, love all the x-file stuff. It is out there, where inventions are made, the edge of what is & what is fantasy. Surely here people know this. The easiest: cell phones vs. that whole Star Trek handheld thingie. Plus the moon-can't be done, but it WAS. Same with resuscitation-raising the dead?-can't be done. (sp edit,yeah yeah)

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

87. ROFLMAO!!!

at YOUR flawed logic. Perhaps you should try and answer the damned question, which was quite logical. But, then, that would require that you actually THINK about how to respond, rather than make stupid assertions.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Please do enlighten me, how is this flawed?

Oh wait, nuthing like this has ever happened in the history of humanity...

:sarcasm:

[Vickers]

105. "Oh how I love flawed logic!"

Please tell me you see the irony in that statement.

:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

119. Don't hold your breath.

:evilgrin:

[frylock]

156. have you ever actually listened to that album?

[AzDar]

180. OMC is the KING of "flawed logic". "Thank God It Passed"... anyone?

Great post, Octafish.

[warren pease]

197. "Oh how I love flawed logic!"

And O how I love the naive among us, for without them cheerleading for various wingnut regimes, corporatists and other low-rent fascists, how on earth would there be enough popular support for the planet-full of tin-plated satraps who try so very hard to confine the human spirit within the scope of a draft animal?

Blessed are the vision impaired, for they shall never, ever get state-subsidized eye care as long as they support the organizing principles of the kingdom of the overlords.

Btw, who the hell do you think Cheeeeeney is anyway? Little Richard, who's temporarily misplaced his eyeliner?

This is an archetypal sociopath with the conscience of a great white shark and predatory instincts to match.

He'd never run a domestic version of the old Phoenix Program would be second nature to a monster like this. Never "misunderestimate" a psychopath's potential to wreak limitless death and carnage any damn place they please.

Rules mean less than nothing; rules are things you pee on when that ol' prostate trouble kicks in at night.


sf

[Blue_In_AK]

200. How are you still here, that's what I'd like to know. n/t

[Stanchetalarooni]

4. I always thought that "they" did Abbie in.

Possible? Yes or No
If yes than what is the probability of this kind of covert behavior?
I'd venture to say that the "dark side" of the US has a probability of .99999999!

[truedelphi]

7. One of the best people I have ever met used to say that

Abbie Hoffman was one of her all time favorite people. From her descriptions of him, I wish I had known him too.

[Octafish]

13. Govt said Abbie, despondent over a fender-bender, killed himself.

Of course, the fact he just published a major article on how George Herbert Walker Bush and William Casey entered a deal with the Ayatollah Khomeini government to hold the hostages until after the election had nothing to do with it. Sure.

[kimmerspixelated]

22. I think you're on the right track.

I wonder if Hunter Thompson really killed himself...with a silencer??? He was working on a 9/11 piece, just before. Things that make you go...hmmmmm??

[me b zola]

6. K&R

[Octafish]

19. Remember Col. Ted Westhusing?

Know your BFEE: They kill good soldiers like Col. Ted Westhusing for profit.

Thank you for understanding what it's all about, me b zola.

[peacetalksforall]

25. Imagine. "So, of course the Pentagon said he was not going nuts, just thinking too rigidly."

Imagine. Thinking too rigidly because you can't accept crime and transitioning to crime.

So, I guess we need four lists:

Civilians
Scientists
Soldiers
Authors-writers

"... too rigidly". I can't stop thinking about the implications of it. The mission. The agenda. The criminality of it all.

Where is the oversight?

Now, I have another family to add to the list and wonder about. How they enjoy being silenced. Torn. Quelling skepticism. Trying to heal.

One minute a brave war hero, the next - gone, by criminals without honor.

Oh, I know it hasn't been proven. Instead of circumstantial evidence, we only have circumstantial motives and proven peripherally related history of motives and suspects.

Follow the money should work here, but we have obfuscation of disappearing money and only inferences leading to the need for monumental amounts required to operate a sub-government.

And we have people telling us that all is OK at the Pentagon - 4.3 trillion was nothing and all now accounted for. Says who? The pharma man - Rumsfeld?

We are so stupid. So stupid. And that is what they rely on.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truedelphi]

12. That is one interesting topic, right there.

And what can anyone do but Speculate. It' snot like Cheney is going to hold a press conference tomorrow to report that he ordered that JFK Jr. be killed.

The Powers that Be have spent so much time and energy muzzling the press. Money that their side has.

But as an independent researcher, one requires a lot of time and money. And if what we are speculating about ends up to be true, a researcher might not live to see the research published or televised or even on the internet.

How many people have died - and the very journal or other important papers that they were keeping is not among their personal effects?

Karen Silkwood, Danny Casolaro, Mallove.

[Octafish]

21. Remember the Star Wars scientists?

Like the microbiologists, there was a wave of suspicious deaths among British and American scientists working on Pruneface's MI-Complex cash cow.

Did 22 SDI Researchers really ALL Commit Suicide?

[cascadiance]

41. And some "suicides' of airmen connected to the B52 found to fly nukes over the U.S....

... to the staging base for shipping supplies over to Iraq, etc.

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/57

...
* What happened to the three military whistleblowers who blew the whistle on this incident and reported it to a journalist at the newspaper Military Times?

* Why hasn’t the Air Force or the FBI investigated the 6-8 untimely deaths including three alleged suicides, one of a Minot weapons guard, one of an assistant defense secretary, and one of a captain in the super-secret Air Force Special Commando Group, as well as alleged fatal vehicle “accidents” involving four ground crew and B-52 pilots and crewmembers at Minot and Barksdale? Could any of this strange cluster of deaths have been related to the incident? The Air Force “investigation” didn’t even mention these incidents, and as I disclosed in my article, none of the police investigators or medical examiners in those incidents had even been contacted by Air Force or other federal investigators.

...

More on the Star Wars scientists...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=203767&mesg_id=203900

and the microbiologists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=203767&mesg_id=203897

[scheming daemons]

10. Cool! Now we have our own version of the "Clinton Death List", but this time about Bush!

Take that, Freepers.

[PDJane]

15. I've had one of those for a long time.

Since the JFK assassination, to be precise.

[jwirr]

24. Me to. Where were you GHW Bush that your kids to not remember

you watching the TV on June 22, 1963 with them?

[dflprincess]

64. June 22?

:shrug:

[Morning Dew]

136. Pope Paul VI was elected... it was very big with the kids. ;) nm.

[jwirr]

177. oops! Problems with a tired grandma just home from a day of sitting

two little imps. Nov. 22.

[RaleighNCDUer]

121. Well, he wasn't at MY 10th birthday party that day.

Therefore, I'm more curious about November 22, 1963.

[wroberts189]

32. Yes but ours has a lot more names and good reasoning behind it. nt

[PDJane]

56. Actually, I'm up to 49 names..........

And I have very good reasons for putting every single one of those names there. I'm probably older than you are, and have had longer to watch these people...and I have a very good memory.

[wroberts189]

72. I fully believe you do.. I am 43 btw. nt

[PDJane]

76. yeah, well.........

I'm a week or so from being 60. I started watching a bit earlier.

[wroberts189]

78. Maybe you should post those names like the OP did ... ?

Help educate us and inform.

[wroberts189]

81. You realize I am on your side right? nt

[PDJane]

86. yes, I do.......

unfortunately, the list is on the desktop, which is not where I am at the moment! I will write myself a note.........

[wroberts189]

88. If you do get to it, start your own thread .. this is an important subject for me.

and I expect a good many other DU's judging by this thread alone.


This whole garbage about the secret cia program... that it was only about killing AlQueda leaders (or whatever the spelling is) is the biggest crock I have heard yet.

Like Rachel Maddow said on msnbc... we already knew they were doing this years ago.

[cascadiance]

89. Maybe we should start an ongoing series of threads...

and start with the list of 49, and then ask people to add any names missing from it. Then put in another thread a few days later (or a week later) where we merge those altogether, and build a big f'ing list at some point. Then it could be a ready reference whenever we get newer information come to light on what this hit squad was doing so that we can compare what was stated to the list.

[Octafish]

62. Remember Ronni Moffitt? Remember Orlando Letelier?

Letelier had been Chile's ambassador to Washington, before the CIA-backed coup that killed his boss, Salvador Allende. Letelier, Moffitt and her husband were riding in a car through Georgetown when a bomb killed Ronni Moffitt and the former ambassador.

Beat the BFEE: Poppy’s CIA warned about terror plots and did not stop them

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves." -- Henry Kissinger, revealing his true feelings about democracy.

[Buzz Clik]

146. Seriously. I feel better when this crazy uncle stays under the porch.

[Octafish]

173. Thanks for reminding me...

Oswald and Ruby Transcript Not so Far-Fetched as Corporate McPravda Wants You to Believe

Most telling story, that.

[Buzz Clik]

182. oy

[aquart]

165. New here? Asleep for a decade or so?

Bush/Cheney come out of a privileged mindset that has no problem with killing the inconvenient.

[AntiFascist]

16. More info on Michael Connell and election fraud here...

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/

[Octafish]

63. Wow! Outstanding resources, that website!

From http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove /

A tipster close to the McCain campaign disclosed to VR in July that Mr. Connell’s life was in jeopardy and that Karl Rove had threatened him and his wife, Heather. VR’s attorney, Cliff Arnebeck, notified the United States Attorney General , Ohio law enforcement and the federal court about these threats and insisted that Mr. Connell be placed in protective custody. VR also told a close associate of Mr. Connell’s not to fly his plane because of another tip that the plane could be sabotaged. Mr. Connell, a very experienced pilot, has had to abandon at least two flights in the past two months because of suspicious problems with his plane. On December 18, 2008, Mr. Connell flew to a small airport outside of Washington DC to meet some people. It was on his return flight the next day that he crashed.

And that's just the beginning. There are tons of links and videos and the facts about the terror Mr. Connell and his family faced.

Thank you very much, AntiFascist. Bookmarked and will tell my friend all about it. Very much obliged.

[AntiFascist]

67. My pleasure, Octafish!!

This website was started by Brad Friedman, who broke much of the information about Clint Curtis and Raymond Lemme.

[gordianot]

17. Also, where did the weapons grade anthrax come from?

A seldom discussed incident. It was not produced in someones basement. In the past buildings exposed to anthrax have had to be demolished. WMD in an envelope on American soil at the seat of Government.

[troubledamerican]

106. Anthrax? How dare you. What anthrax?

Well, you see, the anthrax was necessary to boost support for the "USA PATRIOT Act" to protect Americans. You see.

We're patriots.

[EFerrari]

18. Bruce Ivins. And the latest is, National Institutes of Science

are doing an evaluation requested by Mueller/FBI on the FBI scientific evidence against Ivins even though the NIS say their study will not render a judgment on culpability or innocence and even though FBI's own top bio weapons consultant has said this science cannot solve this case.

[Me.]

26. Fascinating Question

If we learned anything in the last 8 years, it's that nothing is out of the realm of possibility. Perhaps it was the same question that 13 doctors in England asked when they demanded an inquest into Dr David Kelly's death

[wroberts189]

35. Yes... I was hoping someone on DU would do a thread like this.

Strange thing about the Kelly case is his family ..to my knowledge has ever taken a position on it.

[Me.]

36. Afraid?

[wroberts189]

46. I would put money on it. nt

[Ignis]

179. Those hysterical, unscientific doctors?

I'm sure they're overlooking the massive coincidence that Dr. Kelly's death just happened to help the BFEE.

[wroberts189]

30. "DC Madam" was asked and said she would never commit suicide

and she "did" right before she was going to name names.

[Mnemosyne]

74. And one of her 'girls' about a year before. Both hangings, which is

much rarer in women.

[wroberts189]

85. I didn't know about that ..things that make you go hmmm.. nt

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

127. Hangings - interesting..

What crimes now or in the past in the US have hanging as the penalty?

Treason is one. Might say something about mindset.

[Octafish]

104. Remember Brandy Britten?

The beautiful former college professor and professional escort was a "suicide."

She also worked with Ms. Palfrey.

No matter why, they didn't deserve their fate.

[troubledamerican]

107. Funny how those sound clips never get played on Young Turks, Maddow, etc.

Palfrey said it. Flat out. She was not going to commit suicide.

No investigations? Cops are corrupt, Congress is corrupt? Of course.

No Air America hosts play those soundbites? Young Turks hide their chickenshit Bob Shrum-quoting faces? Where's f**king Randi?

If you ever wanted to smell something rotten in Denmark, there it is.

[KoKo]

129. And remember ABC's Brian Ross was supposed to reveal some of the names

and then he dropped it. She should have put those names in a safe place to be revealed in case of her death. Maybe she did and the person she left the names with wasn't as safe as she thought. And, we know from Patriot Act that even a safe deposit box in a bank isn't safe anymore.

[L. Coyote]

31. HELLO. This is not something NEW.

[Octafish]

164. Remember Jerry Litton?

Probably before your time:

Green bumper stickers (like those used in his prior Congressional campaigns) circulated in the state saying "Litton for President."<3> Jimmy Carter was to say that he thought Litton would be President one day.<4>

Jerry Litton for U.S. Senate

The man's family, his pilot, and the pilot's son also died Aug. 3, 1976.

[ControlledDemolition]

34. K&R.

I also have concerns about the 'accidental death' of JFK Jnr. He was considering entering politics - either a New York Senatorial run, and possibly even a presidential one. If he did run, who do you think would have won. As it was Hillary and Bush Jnr got in respectively.

(Edit: Fix typo.)

[TheUnspeakable]

38. k&r

[H2O Man]

39. One day soon,

we should talk.

[Senator]

40. Cheney Should Have The Heat Because He's Still Operative

As I http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6063662#6071604">said the other day, there's no real reason to believe that "it's over now" or that he wasn't running a group of rogue "patrions" -- like the non-violent Notra Trulock and Linda Tripp; and the sociopath Liddy -- for decades.

Anyone really think he thinks he needs any stinkin' "I'm The Veep" badge to continue as self-appointed Master of the Universe? Smirky boy is just his latest sociopath-voyeur idiot prop. Now he just "goes black" with "alternative funding" (again).

I'd also add Pat Tillman and Daniel Pearl to the list of deaths to wonder about. War mongers seldom get that "lucky."

--

[Virginian]

91. That was my thought, too.

If Cheney started it and it was just recently stopped, What was going on between January 20th and the present? Who was running it?
I was wondering if Bush/Cheney would give up power once their term was up. Maybe they didn't give it ALL up.

[Senator]

102. Sadly, they never give it all up.

The just are forced to give up the luxury of the taxpayer's dime. The "quality of the work" also suffers because they just can't order any talented professional to do things. But enough money can always find a way.

----

[Raksha]

99. You're right - there's no reason to believe it's all over.

What proof of that do we have, after all?

[troubledamerican]

108. Cheney Sleeper Cells.

Seymour Hersh's "stay-behinds" is a military intelligence term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay-behind

"Stay-behinds" is a reference to Operation Gladio: staged false-flag terror to move public opinion Far Right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

I'll bet the Oval Office got some undetectable, very expensive, sweeps-proof microphone upgrades before Obama moved in.

[robertpaulsen]

42. Kicked recommended and bookmarked. Thanks Octafish!

This needs a thorough investigation. Did the assassination program really start in response to 9/11 or was this something Cheney had control of once he was put in charge of the wargames on May 8, 2001?

:kick:

[Octafish]

58. Remember Dr. Frank Olson?

Dr. Olson disagreed with the direction CIA mind-control experiments science was heading.

Know your BFEE: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ford Covered Up CIA Murder of American Scientist

You're welcome, robertpaulsen! As an American, I agree wholeheartedly in regards to investigation. We the People ARE the government, unless it's conducted in secret -- then, it's something other than a democracy. Thank you for caring, my Friend.

[Mnemosyne]

75. MK-Ultra, nasty stuff. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

92. Truly horrible, and some of it has morphed into neuroscience related fields.

Here's a redacted copy of the CIA's Inspector General's Report of Inspection of MKULTRA from July 26, 1963 (cryptome.org)
http://cryptome.org/mkultra-0003.htm

Here's another link for those that are no longer under the influence of the shock doctrine.
"Declassified MK-Ultra Project Documents" (michael-robinett.com)
http://michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm

The main man behind MKULTRA was former DCI Richard McGarrah Helms.

Octafish-thanks for never giving up--this thread is another indictment-rich environment!
:patriot:

[conscious evolution]

43. K&R

[Octafish]

175. Remember Paul Sanford?

Paul Sanford, first to ask McClellan about Plame/treason link, commits suicide

Thanks for giving a damn. Really appreciate it, conscious evolution.

OT: For déjà vu irony, check out the ROFLMAO.

[Jim Sagle]

184. I had him pegged as a DLC hogwash dispenser. After seeing that, I'd uprade him to RNC, if not CIA.

[Octafish]

190. All the guy did was ask about Rove's role in outing Valerie Plame.

Treason was what he was getting at.

And you know what traitors say about being found out?

They say, "We got a problem."

And you know how they get rid of problems?

They say, "No man. No problem."

[Jim Sagle]

192. My comment was about Laffing Boy

[Octafish]

193. Ah! Thanks, Jim Sagle.

Was it R.D. Laing who said, "Sanity in a world of insanity is insane"?

This topic is dark and hate-filled and convoluted and complicated. The more I look at it, the madder and crazier it makes me. My family and friends have noticed it over the years. If I didn't know people on DU and throughout the nation and world gave a damn, it'd be no contest -- I'd be totally nuts.

Thanks for explaining the post, Jim Sagle. Very much appreciate it and that you give a damn.

[wuvuj]

44. Consider the drive to privatize surveillence and security?

The 5 to 1 ratio of private security vs various govt security types. Think about all the personal data in the hand of private entities.

I'm very sure that killing is just the tip of the iceberg....many other ways to trash someones life....


http://www.gangstalkingworld.com/Handbook/TheHiddenEvil.pdf

[Enthusiast]

169. Excellent point, nt

[SalviaBlue]

45. It would be extremely naive to believe it is limited to the scope exposed so far.

They have already shown us who they are and how they lie. It would be silly to think this program would be limited to the so called enemies of the country. If Cheney/Bush had assassins at their disposal, they would use them however they wanted. They are psycho criminals. I don't doubt for a minute they offed some of those on your list.

[Octafish]

126. They tortured children, to get to their parents and gin up their phony case for war.

John Yoo Argued Pres. Bush Had Authority to Torture Children (video)

Doug Cassel: If the president deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?

John Yoo: No treaty.

Doug Cassel: Also no law by Congress — that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo…

John Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

Thank you for understanding what this nation faces and to where its leadership descended. They are psycho criminals, SalviaBlue.

[scarletwoman]

48. Thank you, Octafish, great thread. We would be fools to believe that what is visible on the surface

is the whole story.

My eyes were opened 46 years ago when they killed JFK, the layers of lies have only gotten deeper since.

Rec'd, of course,
sw

[ControlledDemolition]

52. To me the JFK assassination is the Rosetta Stone in understanding what is really going on. n/t

[scarletwoman]

54. It was the end of innocence, the end of trust.

Those of us with the capacity to look deeply into the real meaning of the JFK assassination, understood that there were dark forces at work within our government.

There would be no going back, perceptions were irrevocably altered.

sw

[Octafish]

65. MinM told me about this new book a year or so ago...

...by James Douglass, "JFK and the Unspeakable - Why He Died and Why It Matters." You probably know all about it, my Friend. It chronicles the who's who and what's what regarding JFK going up against the military-industrial-Wall Street-intel complex, who all wanted war. The author makes an excellent case that the nation's power structure felt JFK, for attempting peace before war, was a threat to national security. And that is why these people considered themselves "patriotic" in their treason. They are traitors. And they are warmongers.

Thank you, scarletwoman. You have no idea how much your friendship means to me.

[ControlledDemolition]

80. "JFK and the Unspeakable - Why He Died and Why It Matters." A very, very good book. n/t

[PDJane]

84. There were a couple of other things too..........

JFK was planning to nationalize the Federal Reserve, diminish oil depletion allowances and go after the mafia. Any of those things would have put him on the firing line. All of those things meant he was considered too dangerous.

[ControlledDemolition]

95. Not dangerous to the people of the world, but to the money/power loving fascists! n/t

[scarletwoman]

137. Thank you for the heads up on that book -- no, I wasn't familiar with it.

It certainly looks like a must-read, I'll see about getting a copy.

I am, as always, in awe of your tireless committment to researching the monsters who breed corruption and murder in the shadows and your dedication to bringing their criminal deeds to light.

DU is extremely fortunate to have you, and it is an honor to be your friend.

:hug:
sw

[Octafish]

149. Author addresses book store crowd...

It is very well written book, so the story is most compelling.
It also is a very good history, filled with full of names, places, connections.
Still, I'm reading the book about two pages at a time.
Perhaps that's all I can bear, as it's seeing what we've known, deep in our hearts, since that awful day.

Here's a video of the author talking about his work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srstQVfVNEM

I'm going to ask our town's library to pick it up. Gives the conservative turds around here something to think about besides Flush Limpnut's same-old same-old.

In all seriousness: Thank you for the kind words, scarletwoman. It is my honor to be yours.

[MinM]

199. Featured on HBO's Real Time w/Bill Maher via Oliver Stone (6/26/09)

Real Time June 26 Maher/Stone Pt 1/2 - Democratic Underground

JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Democratic Underground

[juno jones]

49. K&R! n/t

[cascadiance]

50. Maybe Pat Tillman, Margie Schoedinger, and a few others here...

Another relevant speculative piece...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Has-Cheney-been-Murdering-by-Jim-Fetzer-090408-987.html

DC Madam wasn't only prostitution in her agency to have committed suicide...

http://www.examiner.com/a-714063~Accused_D_C__madam__Britton_worked_for_her.html

An of course there's always Margie Schoedinger (Bush's much less known "Juanita Broderick" who "committed suicide").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margie_Schoedinger

Some of Jessica Lynch's "rescuers" died mysteriously later too...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=536&mesg_id=536&page=

[ControlledDemolition]

94. The whole Margie Schoedinger thing was buried big time! n/t

[chimpymustgo]

114. Jessica Lynch's rescuers! Good retrieval from the memory hole!

[Nothing Without Hope]

51. I see someone else brought him up, and I will again: Col. Westhusing

For example, in some archived threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2298564
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x64224

He was another convenient "suicide" who got in the way of contractor corruption in Iraq. yes, I know that this thread is about DOMESTIC probable assassinations, but I don't think that line can really be drawn in this world, not any more.

And don't forget the very strange and unexplained deaths of US scientists who might have interfered with the biological warfare plans. For example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2901147&mesg_id=2903997

[rosesaylavee]

53. K and R / Bookmarked

Thank you for the tentative list. Was hoping something like this would be posted sooner or later here. Dare we hope that this blows up into a large enough deal that Cheney and Bush et al get what's coming to them. Maybe too soon for that...

[lonestarnot]

60. When I'm gone, I hope somebody remembers I recommended this thread!

:evilgrin:

[ControlledDemolition]

61. Marvin (if not Neil) Bush's housekeeper. n/t

[bertman]

206. Please elaborate, ControlledDemo. I'm not up on this.

[mod mom]

71. Glad to be # 70 on a thread by one of my favorite DUers!

Keep them coming, Octafish. The truth will set us free!

[Mnemosyne]

77. Needs a kick. n/t

[Lasher]

83. The late great Steve Kangas

His wisdom lives on at Liberalism Resurgent.

[autorank]

93. I wondered, you answered -=>k*r

[snot]

96. k&r'd

some people, you can just spy on, find something embarrassing, and blackmail them into shutting up (e.g., John Lennon).

but what to do, when you find no embarrassments, or the target's not daunted at the propect of exposure?

in any case, easier/cleaner to just off them.

[Hannah Bell]

97. "Why is Cheney taking the heat for the assassination program? Sneer was the Veep to Smirk."

yep. funny how the ivy league cheerleader gets a pass, isn't it?

[glitch]

131. Ain't that the truth. It was really weird to see that meme get born and nurtured

not always by the usual suspects either. The upside is it smoked Dickie out, for awhile.

Interesting times.

[glitch]

144. Ain't that the truth. It was really weird to see that meme get born and nurtured

not always by the usual suspects either. The upside is it smoked Dickie out of his spidey hole, for awhile.

Interesting times.

[Jim Sagle]

189. Is THIS the face of a hapless doofus, a clueless second banana?

As listed on amazon.com, it's the cover of the
book

Cruel and Unusual: Bush/Cheney's New World Order (Hardcover)
by Mark Crispin Miller

The answer to my question, of course, is no, it's the face of a treasonous, bloodcrazy psycho.

A genuine political opposition would have made this photo (and the book) a cornerstone of its campaign and thereby destroyed Bushco forever, perhaps along with the Republican party itself. Of course "our" Democrats are neither genuine nor oppositional in any meaningful sense.

[leftstreet]

98. K&R

Excellent links as usual

Thank you!

[Raksha]

100. K & R

[AntiFascist]

109. There are also mysterious deaths which my involve Afghani heroin trade...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-469983/Britain-protecting-biggest-heroin-crop-time.html

My knowledge of all this comes from my time as British Ambassador in neighbouring Uzbekistan from 2002 until 2004. I stood at the Friendship Bridge at Termez in 2003 and watched the Jeeps with blacked-out windows bringing the heroin through from Afghanistan, en route to Europe.

...

But the truth is that his discoveries about the heroin trade were what put his life in danger. Litvinenko was working for the KGB in St Petersburg in 2001 and 2002. He became concerned at the vast amounts of heroin coming from Afghanistan, in particular from the fiefdom of the (now) Head of the Afghan armed forces, General Abdul Rashid Dostum, in north and east Afghanistan.

Did Ciara Durkin and John Torres pay the ultimate price for learning about this business?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1992516&mesg_id=1992516

[troubledamerican]

110. The Ballad of Tim Russert

The Ballad of Tim Russert's Underworld Adventure



Eyes sewn shut, embalmed & dressed,

Just like each broadcast at his best,

Rigor mortis, Insect mess,

Remove your hat out of respect



Tim's screaming now, no one can see.

No more new Plamegate testimony.

Dead men tell no tales, Timmy.

No book deals now, no more money.



Tim's crackling on a rotisserie

To the solemn applause of "Ghost Detainees"

Your future free of rest and peace

Worms in your brain a sweet release



Your wife, kids, childhood memory,

No don't look back Tim, you might see

across miles of dead Iraqi meat.

See what your whole life meant, really



Tim served Cheney and 9/11,

Tim served Tim, a loyal pawn

There's no escape now, your spin is spun:

What Tim's life could have been is gone



Over and over Tim will see

images eternally

ride your childhood bike Timmy

into the land of nightmares sweet

[camera obscura]

111. As someone who's supported Wellstone since I was old enough to understand politics, I hate this crap

Can a guy rest in peace and be mourned by those who miss him without having his memory used for political conspiracies?

Reminds me of all the bullshit about how Bush was going to declare martial law before Obama's inauguration. Can we deal with all the ACTUAL crimes his administrations committed, and the ACTUAL secrets they kept, before we start going off on theories like this?

[cascadiance]

134. Perhaps they'll realize that an actual investigation and prosecutions are NEEDED to stop this!

As long as there is none, and Cheney and his ilk are free to still mess with stuff around us, many of us will do this blue-sky speculating, even if it is likely to be a very fringe and perhaps unlikely connection at times. As long as our government isn't acting responsibly in bringing criminals to justice, we're going to continue to amp up the pressure on them by publicly reminding everyone of the possible crimes that might have happened and might still be happening as long as these criminals are left alone to continue their dirty work!

[Octafish]

143. Blitzer and CNN tried to make out the cause of the crash was the WEATHER even though it wasn't.

Wolf Blitzer kept repeating it was the weather.
The reporter on the scene said, "No."
Wolf kept insisting it was the weather.
When the reporter didn't agree, he went off air.

http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd1120.html

Details on the circumstances:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0211/S00133.htm

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0210/S00206.htm

PS: You know who else was supposed to be on the plane,
but returned to Massachusetts rather than head to Elveth for the funeral?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0210/25/bn.04.html

[Botany]

112. Pat Tillman

3 rounds to the head @ less then 10 meters.

[bc3000]

113. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ...

just sayin'

[seafan]

115. More on John Kokal (No WMD) and Benazir Bhutto ("Osama bin Laden was murdered")

State Dept. Worker Found Dead Outside Agency, November 8, 2003


Update: Mystery surrounds Nov. 7 death of State Dept. official, November 25, 2003




And Benazir Bhutto.....



Bhutto looks on during the campaign rally in Rawalpindi. The powerful opposition leader had returned to Pakistan from exile just two months earlier.
(Aamir Qureshi AFP/ Getty Images)
December 27, 2007


Bhutto's death: No autopsy, two bullet wounds to her head and neck, crime scene rapidly cleaned...., December 27, 2007


Again, the question, who benefited from today's events?, December 27, 2007


In November, 2007 interview, Bhutto names Omar Sheikh as Osama bin Laden's killer., December 27, 2007


Bhutto's interview with David Frost, as she names Bin Laden's killer




Thanks, Octafish for your tireless dedication to the truth.

[cascadiance]

122. Another reason Bhutto might have been hit. Did she presonally give nuclear secrets to North Korea?

Now this is rather an extreme allegation, and might or might not be true. But it was in fact alleged at one time, and the fact that it was might have been what was needed to prompt the "hit squad" to go after her. And they might use this story as a rationalization to hit her (as opposed to the knowledge of Obama being hit), if investigations get pursued.

http://www.nowpublic.com/politics/did-bhutto-give-nuclear-technology-north-korea

[cascadiance]

123. And Bhutto's sister in law died about the time of Benazir's funeral in a road accident.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2569657

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

116. K&R

[jimshoes]

117. Morning kick and rec

Thanks Octafish, threads like this are one of the reasons I am so addicted to DU. Sometimes the folks here get straight to the heart of the matter. This, I believe is one of those times.:kick:

[canichelouis]

118. Thelma Quince Colbert and Shannon Ross /RIP

BOTH Chief US Attorney and Senior US Prosecuting Attorney found DEAD in their homes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=849449&mesg_id=849449


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/17/18120/2944

[aquart]

188. Yeah, those were very dirty.

[Buzz Clik]

124. Wrapped in tinfoil because it's shiny!!!!11

Abbie Hoffman -- October Surprise investigator???

:wtf:

[Octafish]

138. Co-author Abbie Hoffman's article was "An Election Held Hostage.''

You must not have heard about the "October Surprise," where George H. W. Bush, William Casey, Laurence Silberman and Richard Allen appear to have made a deal with the Ayatollah to hold the American hostages and sink Jimmy Carter's re-election. Abbie Hoffman and Jonathan Silvers researched what was then known and published their work in Playboy.

AN ELECTION HELD HOSTAGE

BY ABBIE HOFFMAN AND JONATHAN SILVERS

`The obscure we see eventually. The completely apparent takes a little longer.'--Edward R. Murrow

On January 20, 1981, minutes into his first term, President Ronald Reagan performed a diplomat miracle.

For more than a year, a revolutionary government in Iran had held 52 Americans hostage in retaliation for America's support of the deposed shah. To the world's dismay, President Jimmy Carter was unable to secure their release. Traditional methods of persuasion--an admixture of pleas, threats, economic and military sanctions--proved useless against a fanatic regime that preferred martyrdom to capitulation. Armed with little but epithets and clubs, an Iranian mob had crippled the Carter Presidency and brought America to its knees.

And there the nation remained until Reagan placed his hand on a Bible and took a solemn oath. Half a world away, the fanatics who had once chanted `Death to the Great Satan' instantly scrambled to appease the country's new leader. Barely two hours after the Inauguration, `with thanks to Almighty God,' Reagan made the announcement that America had been longing to hear for 444 days: `Some 30 minutes ago, the planes bearing out prisoners left Iranian airspace and they are now free of Iran.'

In the jubilation of homecoming, no one asked why the hostages had been released at that particular moment. No explanation seemed necessary. Throughout his Presidential campaign. Reagan had slammed the Iranians as `murderous barbarians' and implied that, if elected, there were ways of handling such people. `We did not wish to inherit the hostage crisis,' explains Richard Allen, a Reagan campaign strategist and his first National Security Advisor. `We wanted to make it clear to the Iranians that this was the one issue Reagan was unstable about.' The Reagan transition team circulated menacing rumors that military reprisals and Normandylike invasions were `under consideration.' (According to Allen, its propaganda was not without humor: `What's flat and glows in the dark?' `Tehran, five minutes after Reagan's Inauguration.')

CONTINUED...

http://flag.blackened.net/ati/october88playboy.txt

Live and learn.

PDF: An Election Held Hostage.

[jgraz]

125. Can't help but notice...

... how these threads are suddenly making it to the top of the GP instead of being quietly moved to the 9/11 dungeon. Looks like the Bush Death Squad theories are going mainstream.

I guess it helps when they admit they actually had a death squad...

[glitch]

130. And they admit there were no geographic limitations to the squad's activities.

There's only one interruption for that statement.

[ensho]

128. kick

nt

[LongTomH]

135. And just who is Lord Vader's Death Squadron loyal to NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Inquiring minds want to know!

Connect some more dots: The fundamentalist take-over of military academies, which is still mostly unknown to the general public - if they stick to the M$M news media. The rise of private security (mercenary) companies like CE ne Blackwater. Correct me if I'm wrong; but, weren't there some threads about prominent fundamentalists among the shareholders / executives of some of these companies?

Connect some more dots: The spooky, secretive religious group known variously as 'C Street' or 'The Family' (Shades of the Godfather!).

Connect some more dots: The rise in astro-turf funded and led events like the "Teabaggers." And the really inflammatory remarks by wingnut hate-mongers like Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

You know, if I were of a more paranoid mindset, I might think someone was getting 'Ducks in a Row' in preparation for a coup attempt, something like the one attempted against FDR!

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Oh Shit!!!!!!!!!! I am of a paranoid mindset!!!!!!!!!

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Someone pass the tinfoil, please!

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[goclark]

139. Octafish , you did it again ~ BINGO!

I can't reply to #1 because of the Ignore feature. : )

[mother earth]

140. Hi, OctaFish!

Certainly, we know this has been happening since JFK.

MONEY has always trumped peace for these greedy bastards & their Criminals in Action.

[Waiting For Everyman]

147. Nick Begich Sr. and Hale Boggs. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

203. Yep

[Raster]

148. I wish I could recommend this post ten times over!

:kick:

[David Zephyr]

153. K&R.

Thanks Octafish.

[opihimoimoi]

154. GOP007'S running around offing with a license...covert and authorized by dubious means??

Was that it?

SDA.....Selfish Diabolical Assholes

[Dystopian]

155. KandR

Thank you for posting.
It's all there.
We've been living in dark times, and will continue to live in dark times.
There will always be a shadow government.
Obama is a good man, the best we have....but he is only one man.
He can only do so much.



peace~

[hootinholler]

157. Here's another one!

Jonathan Luna:

Who killed Jonathan Luna?

On December 3, 2003, Assistant United States Attorney Jonathan Luna vanished from his desk in the federal courthouse in Baltimore, Maryland. The next morning, shortly before dawn, Luna’s body was found face down in a cold stream outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. He'd been stabbed thirty-six times....

-Hoot

[MinM]

158. Roland Carnaby! Gunned down like a dog in W's hometown...

by Houston's finest:

YouTube - Mystery CIA Man Shot & Killed by Houston Police

YouTube - CIA Agent in Houston Shot Dead. Chasing "Suitcase Nuke?"

YouTube - Roland Carnaby CIA agent killed, the man who knew too much

Carnaby's widow sues, claims husband was member of CIA | CRIME | KHOU.com | News for Houston, Texas
:kick: & R
A big K & R to Octafish to mark my 1000th post.
Video from Houston Chronicle | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

[MinM]

194. Carnaby killed execution-style reminiscent of Ruby - Oswald

At the 2:37 - 2:43 mark of that last video I linked to...

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/templates/listpop.html?bcpid=823433113&bctid=1856952196">Video from Houston Chronicle | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Carnaby shooting video released

A video of the April shooting of Roland Carnaby was released to the Houston Chronicle by the lawyer for Carnaby's widow Tuesday. See excerpts of the video. October 14, 2008.

is eerily similar to the Jack Ruby shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald.

YouTube - Oswald Shooting

[Octafish]

195. 'A blank page'

My God! They shot Carnaby point-blank in the heart as he emerged from the car! He certainly wasn't reaching "under the seat."

Poor guy was a friend of Poppy's, too. I wonder what he did to deserve "The Treatment"?

HPD pursuit shooting leads to deep mystery

By Mike Tolson
The Houston Chronicle

EXCERPT...

'A blank page'

"Most of what he does is so classified that regular homicide (detectives) will come up with a blank page and then a question about why you are asking," said Fred Platt, the vice president of the local chapter of intelligence agents. "He's here because of homeland security. The port and the airport. He knows everybody on the command staff of every agency."

Local law enforcement officials, however, say they don't know him, including Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt and Harris County Sheriff Tommy Thomas. The local FBI office also claims to have no knowledge of him.

Hurtt said he'd attended a function held by the Association last year and may have met Carnaby there. He said he did not remember him well, though the two were photographed together.

"I don't know the gentleman," he said.

Carnaby traveled frequently for work, Helfman said, but whenever he was in Houston, he visited the dealership on a daily basis. Helfman said Carnaby spoke seven languages and always carried an arsenal of weapons, including several guns and a knife.

"He was always showing me his knife tricks," he said. "He was real good at karate, too."

Carnaby was tight-lipped about his work and his private life, and Helfman said he didn't question him.

"His entire life has always been clandestine. His girlfriends didn't even know what he was doing," Helfman said.

Even mundane details of Carnaby's life were tinged with mystery. His address listed with the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles is a private mailbox at a UPS Store near downtown. The address at which he registered his Jeep Commander was a different UPS Store in Pearland.

Whatever his real story, Carnaby's life came to an end about 11 a.m. after police forced his vehicle to a stop. He didn't acknowledge the officers who encircled him with guns drawn. And he "refused to put his hands where the officers could see him," said Houston Police Sgt. John Chomiak.

"The driver refused to comply, talk or roll down the window," Chomiak said.

He opened the driver's side door only after one of the officers smashed the passenger-side window, police said.

"He stepped out of his vehicle, turned around and reached under the seat," Chomiak said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/1690749-HPD-pursuit-shooting-leads-to-deep-mystery/

If this is how they treat friends of Poppy, it's scary to imagine how they treat "Nobodies."

Why would a domestic CIA operator, expert at Homeland Security, be terminated? Did he know something that scared the serious money?

Was he a traitor? If he was, Poppy wouldn't be a pall bearer.

[MinM]

201. Suite 8F Group

AFAIK, the only tie between the following 2 items, and Roland Carnaby, is Houston, TX.

Suite 8F Group - The Education Forum

Over the last few weeks I have been researching the Suite 8F Group, a collection of right-wing political and businessmen. The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston where they held their meetings. Members of the group included George Brown and Herman Brown (Brown & Root), Jesse H. Jones (multi-millionaire investor in a large number of companies and chairman of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation), Gus Wortham (American General Insurance Company), James Abercrombie (Cameron Iron Works), Hugh R. Cullen (Quintana Petroleum), William Hobby (Houston Post), William Vinson (Great Southern Life Insurance), James Elkins (American General Insurance and Pure Oil Pipe Line), Morgan J. Davis (Humble Oil), Albert Thomas (chairman of the House Appropriations Committee), Lyndon B. Johnson (Majority Leader of the Senate). John Connally, Alvin Wirtz and Edward Clark were also members of the Suite 8F Group.

Suite 8F helped to coordinate the political activities of other right-wing politicians and businessmen based in the South. This included Robert Anderson (president of the Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of the Treasury), Robert Kerr (Kerr-McGee Oil Industries), Billie Sol Estes (entrepreneur in the cotton industry), Glenn McCarthy (McCarthy Oil and Gas Company), Earl E. T. Smith (U.S. Sugar Corporation), Fred Korth (Continental National Bank and Navy Secretary), Ross Sterling (Humble Oil), Sid Richardson (Texas oil millionaire), Clint Murchison (Delhi Oil), Haroldson L. Hunt (Placid Oil), Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), Lawrence D. Bell (Bell Helicopters), William Pawley (business interests in Cuba), Gordon McLendon (KLIF), George Smathers (Finance Committee and businessman), Richard Russell (chairman of the Committee of Manufactures, Committee on Armed Forces and Committee of Appropriations), James Eastland (chairman Judiciary Committee), Benjamin Everett Jordan (chairman of the Senate Rules Committee), Fred Black (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation) and Bobby Baker (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation).

What I have found out so far can be found here:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgroup8F.htm

CBC News: the fifth estate: Conspiracy Theories - The Saudi Connection

Is it a conspiracy or a coincidence? There is a long and tangled history between the Bush family and the elite of Saudi Arabia.

It begins in the 1970's in Houston, Texas, when George W. Bush was just starting out in his family's two businesses of politics and oil. The powerful - and very rich - Bin Laden family helped fund his first venture into oil.

The cozy friendship continued for decades. After a terrorist attack at a barracks in Saudi Arabia which killed 19 Americans, the bin Laden family received a multi-billion dollar contract to re-build. And incredibly, George Bush Sr. was in a business meeting at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Washington on the morning of September 11th with one of Osama Bin Laden's brothers...

Houston .. We have a Problem!

[SpiralHawk]

161. "Sneer" - xVP Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney (R - Homelander)

[mother earth]

171. Seriously...what a joke.

[Octafish]

172. Ich bin ein Auslander.

When you're sneering
When you're sneering
The whole world sneers with you.

When you're smirking
When you're smirking
The whole world smirks at you.

But when you're warring
You bring on the pain
And start a cash rain
Be sneering, again

With apologies to Frank Sinatra

[bleever]

167. Incredible thread, excellent responses.

Proud to recommend.

[Enthusiast]

168. What do these guys like Cheney stand for?

Their spokesmen, Limbaugh & Fox News for example, constantly rail against social security, heathcare improvements, food stamps, unions, civil rights, affirmative action, environmental concerns, minimum wage, and health and safety standards in the workplace. But mostly they attack those that have a different explanation and perspective. Their agenda is way far extremist right wing. It can be described as nothing if not fascism. Fascism is the word that most closely describes the government they advocate. About this there is little doubt.

I believe they would stop at nothing to achieve their ends. But it is mostly a game of manipulation of the ballot box, subtle coercion and propaganda. They have gathered up the resources of the MSM so they will not have to answer for their deeds. The second poster demonstrated one of their most frequently used methods. They denigrate and make fun of those that question the odd happenings that would betray what is going on behind the scenes. They characterize questions like this as loony, tin foil hat stuff. Can the deaths of these people just be a coincidence? It hardly seems likely.

[bertman]

207. Power. Money equals power. These people are no different from the nobles who murdered

each other and slaughtered their subjects by the millions over the last five or six thousand years of recorded history.

Either they get what they want or somebody gets dead. Or lots of somebodies.

The question is: how do you stop this?? I have no fucking clue.

[defendandprotect]

170. Thank you, Octafish . . . we need constant reminding ---

I didn't know Abbie Hoffman had been working on "October Surprise" -- thanks!

Didn't know about Robt. B. Boettcher, Cong. staffer --
or the conincidence that Rep. Leo Ryan was also on that committee with Don. Fraser Chairing
and his house set on fire!

And reminders of Moon and religious cults undermining our Constitution --

there also seemed to have been some strong-arm tactics used on our IRS which long resisted
Scientology's claims to being a "religion" and then suddenly reversed itself and granted
them tax-exempt status!

Thanks!

[Ignis]

178. Oh, it's just coincidental that those deaths helped the BFEE.

Juuuuuuuuuuust a coincidence, I'm sure. :hi:

[Me.]

186. And Of Course There's Always This

NYC Ballot Initiative relaunched as NYCCAN - The New York City Coalition for Accountability No

“in their numbers are distinguished scientists, engineers, architects, professional people from all walks of life and families of victims who seek closure -- people for whose courage, determination, intelligence and steadfastness, I have boundless admiration. It was largely as a result of their efforts that a 9/11 Commission was established in the first place over the initial opposition of the Bush administration.

The failure of that Commission to seek, even address the critical questions is now a part of contemporary history. Former Georgia Senator, Max Cleland, resigned early on in disgust citing official obstruction. More recently, Co-Chairmen Kean and Hamilton, have themselves declared their awareness that their work was obstructed and denied valuable information, materials and evidence. Consequently, there is overwhelming agreement that the initial government sponsored investigation was a failure in respect of bringing truth about 9/11 to the light of day.

That is why a group of citizens in the City of New York, aided, supported and encouraged by citizens throughout the United States and the world (remember, 80 nations lost citizens in that attack) came together to mount an effort to put a Referendum question on the general election ballot for the consideration of the voters of New York City, seeking their approval for the establishment of a new, independent Commission to investigate all aspects of 9/11. The Commission will convene with a commitment to go where the facts lead, and they will have subpoena power to compel testimony under oath and full investigative and legal support staff.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/1530337/1/


“*FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 15, 2009*

*New York* - Outside City Hall today relatives of 9/11 victims, first responders and survivors of the September 11th attacks gathered to endorse a November ballot initiative to establish a new 9/11 investigation under the auspices of the city government of New York. Support on the street is high, the group says, and polls indicate a majority of New Yorkers wants a new investigation.

On June 24, the group leading the ballot initiative, the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN) filed a petition containing 52,000 signatures with the office of the City Clerk. The official filing initiated a 60-day period specified in Section 37 of the New York Municipal Home Rule Law in which the City Council is asked to review the petition and approve its placement on the upcoming November ballot.

Since this milestone filing, the group has gathered an additional 15,000 signatures and received several endorsements from prominent leaders. Renowned whistleblower and former FBI agent Coleen Rowley, who TIME magazine selected as one of three "Persons of the Year" in 2002, endorsed a new investigation yesterday, as reported by RAWSTORY. Bill Doyle, who lost his son Joseph, has been an outspoken leader of an active community of relatives of the 9/11 victims and he too released a statement endorsing a new inquiry in New York. Joining Doyle in support as signatory to an NYC CAN online petition is Christine O'Neil, wife of ex-FBI Agent John O'Neil, who was killed on the job at the World Trade Center and Lorie Van Auken, a widow from New Jersey and former member of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee.”…cont…

http://www.alternet.org/action/141359/cheney%27s_cia_secrets:_we_must_fight_to_get_the_truth/?comments=view&cID=1264226&pID=1264222

“Today, over 66% of New York City residents support a new 9/11 investigation. Millions now know that critical questions were left unaddressed. Only an objective, independent, subpoena powered investigation can ask the right people the relevant questions the 9/11 Commission certainly did not. Only an impartial investigation, free from intervention and powered by subpoena, can deliver the answers that every American deserves.” Cont…

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19796

[Kurovski]

187. Kick.

That list. The thing about that list is---to a person--someone, somewhere had said more than once about them "Don't fly in small planes" Jeezus...it's part of our lexicon, "Don't fly in small planes" when you get in the way of the big boys.

:kick:

[newspeak]

196. at one time we actually had investigative journalists

I don't think it's tinfoil, when newspapers like the Sacramento Bee were featuring articles from brave souls like Daniel Casolero. I remember reading his articles about the corrupt connections between BCCI, the theft of PROMIS software, bringing drugs into this country for weapons, the Iran-Contra connection. How can anyone call that tinfoil? A fellow classmate, Sally Denton (investigative reporter) also exposed the Mena AR connection for delivering the drugs into this country. What is tinfoil about it? Casolero just happened to commit suicide after he met with an informer to obtain more information in the whole nefarious affair. I remember reading about his death, which absolutely shocked me and hubby--our first thought was that he was murdered. Then an article came out from Ng who said he would continue Casolero's work--he was shot down, I believe in Mexico, following the BCCI trail.

When we're talking about BCCI, we're talking about possible money laundering--money laundering for drugs and terrorism. You don't think that the whole network hasn't had an impact on what is happening today? Doesn't have an impact on the increase in terrorism or the increase in opium-cocaine trade?

There is no secret--we read it--we saw a brilliant investigator cut down--there is no tinfoil. It happened and some of those who were involved were recycled into the present * administration. We slept and they came back to bring even more harm to this country.

[bobthedrummer]

198. Sunday afternoon kick...

and a link to an active related thread

"CIA Domestic Operations Division: A DU collaborative thread"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6095958

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bertman]

204. Have to recommend this, but it's TOO FRICKIN LATE. Kick it anyway.

Great question, Octafish!!