Man must choose between selling kidney or child

[caseymoz]

Source: CNN

Mohammed Iqbal said he has been told by his landlord to pay up on debts and is left with a choice facing others in this impoverished corner of Pakistan: Sell your children or a kidney.

For the 50-year-old Iqbal, there is only one option. Despite a law passed in late 2007 banning transplants for money, he has decided to sell his kidney and has already been for pre-operation tests. The sale will net him between $1,100 and $1,600.

"What's incredible here is the law that bans the operation he's going to go through came into place in 2007," said CNN's Nic Robertson. "He's still able to go to a doctor, the doctors given him advice, that's what he has to do under law... He's going to make money out of it 100,000-150,000 rupees, and that is absolutely illegal. Yet, in just a few days, he's expecting to sell his kidney."

Iqbal was not alone in facing this difficult decision. Others in Pakistan's rural heartland have opted to sell their kidneys.

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/16/pakistan.organ.selling/index.html

---

I hope this is a hoax.

If not, this is a horror story. It's something that you would previously only read about in futuristic-dystrophy novels. We are living in a Soilent Green universe right now.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

1. It is not a hoax.

This has been going for years in Pakistan and India.


For years, India has been known as a "warehouse for kidneys" or
a "great organ bazaar" and has become one of the largest centers
for kidney transplants in the world, offering low costs and
almost immediate availability. In a country where one person out
of every three lives in poverty, a huge transplant industry arose
after drugs were developed in the 1970's to control the body's
rejection of foreign objects. Renal transplants became common in
India about thirteen years ago when the anti-rejection drug
cyclosporine became available locally. The use of powerful
immuno-suppressant drugs and new surgical techniques has
indirectly boosted the kidney transplant activities. The
dramatic success rates of operations, India's lack of medical
regulations and an atmosphere of "loose medical ethics" has also
fueled the kidney transplant growth. The result has been that
"supply and demand created a marriage of unequals , wedding
wealthy but desperate people dependent on dialysis machines to
those in India grounded down by the hopelessness of
poverty"(Max). The pace of demand for kidneys hasn't kept up
with the demand. Consequently, the poor and destitute, victims
of poverty, have either willingly sold their kidneys to pay for
a daughter's dowry, build a small house or to feed their families
or have been duped or conned into giving up their kidneys
unknowingly or for very little sums of money. Ironically,
medical technology meant to advance and save human lives has been
abused to such lengths, that in some cases, it has resulted in
the death of innocent individuals.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/KIDNEY.HTM

[Warpy]

2. it's not a hoax, I'm afraid

Poor people go in to find if they're matches for richer people on the transplant list. If they are, they can donate and are compensated for their trouble. The poor are becoming an organ reservoir for the rich in a lot of countries outside the US.

The laws in the US are very different and much stricter regarding live donors to prevent this sort of thing. We can still sell our blood in some areas, though.

The hoax is the story of the guy waking up in a bathtub full of ice with a kidney gone. Tissue typing must be done in advance of donation, along with making sure the donor isn't carrying HIV or hepatitis. Just grabbing somebody's kidney on the off chance there will be a tissue match waiting for one isn't going to work. Donated organs have a very short shelf life.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

13. and jody blows again

a Jewish surgeon from Israel

You're certain of the surgeon's religion/ethnicity, jody? And it's relevant to your comment?

Jody can't see me, so maybe somebody else would ask him.

Background info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=176965&mesg_id=177555

[lunatica]

4. I saw a documentary on people in India selling their kidneys because they're so poor

And guess who the recipients are. People who have money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. The documentary also highlighted the thriving "matchmaker" trade

who gets a commission from connecting buyer and seller of organs.

[caseymoz]

10. What gets me is the dilemma: sell your kidney or sell your child into slavery.

Both of those are illegal, yet, authorities aren't preventing either one.

[Fumesucker]

11. There are plenty of illegal things that "the authorities" cannot stop in the USA

Despite our having the highest incarceration rate in the world.

Eh, they can't even keep contraband out of high security prisons.

[stray cat]

5. One more place I would rather not live compared to America

[awoke_in_2003]

17. have you seen how they handle it in Britain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aclS1pGHp8o
:)

on edit: it is comedy, but if you are squeamish you may not want to view.

[TankLV]

6. He should sell his liver - hardly anybody likes liver...

not matter how they try to prepare it...

[undeterred]

7. If it were legal people would be doing it here.

[caseymoz]

9. Hell, it's supposed to be illegal there.

It is always possible anywhere for authorities to be incompetent, overwhelmed or bribed.

[marshall]

12. So does that mean selling children is okay?

The article mentions a law that prohibits selling organs (which he nevertheless has skirted) but nothing about selling children. Then again, maybe the landlord was eyeing the poor man's 8 year old daughter--buying a wife is less problematic than buying a child (even when the wife IS a child).

[caseymoz]

14. Neither one is legal, but if the child is sold, they will end up in slavery or worse . . .

Or worse, sex slavery.

[iverglas]

16. why would you say that?

What is there in the article that suggests that selling children is "okay", so that you would have a basis for saying:

So does that mean selling children is okay?

The point of the article is that the man's only options were selling a kidney and selling a child.

He decided to sell a kidney.

There is nothing there that implies that it is "okay", or legal, to sell a child.

Of course it isn't.

It isn't legal for people in the US to be paid less than minimum wage or to work in unsafe conditions, either. A lot of people do both. For want of other options, I think.

[marshall]

18. I said it because I read the article

The article opens with mentioning the man's two options--selling a child or selling a kidney, and then goes into great length to explain the sale of organs, how it was banned but how the law is skirted. No mention of the legality of child selling.

Case in point:

http://www.rawa.org/child-sold.htm

And more timely:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/07/pakistan.child.bombers/index.html

[iverglas]

20. I don't know what point that's a case of

I'm sorry, but the idea that it would be legal to sell a child in Pakistan is nonsensical and borders on ethnocentrism, and saying "So does that mean selling children is okay?" is just baseless.

The article is about selling organs. The man in question is simply used as a case in point. The article is not about selling chidren. For you to frame it as:

The article opens with mentioning the man's two options--selling a child or selling a kidney, and then goes into great length to explain the sale of organs, how it was banned but how the law is skirted. No mention of the legality of child selling.

is just silly pretense. The article is ABOUT the practice of buying and selling organs.


Debt is a problem for the poor in the less developed countries that we don't hear about often enough. It is commonly the main problem holding back grassroots economic development. People like this man are living in the equivalent of the company town in the US's own more distant history, times ten.

Brown-skinned foreigners don't sell their children because they have no regard for human life or no parental sentiment. They do it to keep their other children alive. And child traffickers and other vile creatures will exploit the desperation of those parents, just as rich people needing organs exploit poor people with organs to spare.

[marshall]

25. I'm not disagreeing with you

I don't think I've made myself clear. My initial point is that the article was negligent in not mentioning (like it did about organ selling) that child selling (unless it involves marriage) is illegal. You are correct that the main subject of the article is organ selling, but the writer introduced child trafficking as a point of contrast, and she or he should have carried over the comparison to completion--in my opinion.

[sutz12]

15. Now there's choice we can believe in...RW style

:puke: and yes :sarcasm:

What the capitalists don't understand is that if unchecked by some social responsibility, capitalism will always lead to things like this.

[michreject]

19. It's not the worse thing in the world that happens

This sux.

Illegal Human Organ Trade from Executed Prisoners in China

http://www1.american.edu/TED/prisonorgans.htm

1. The Issue

“Today, China stands alone in continuing the use of organs of executed prisoners for transplant surgery.”1 International organizations such as the World Medical Association and the World Health Organization regard the sale of human organs as inhumane and unethical. These organizations believe it is essential to address all concerns surrounding illicit organ trade and possibly invoke an international trade mandate to which all nations must adhere. Human rights organizations and numerous former Chinese citizens, like Harry Wu, assert that China uses human organs from executed prisoners to sell for substantial profit. The repercussions resulting from the lack of international laws regulating global human organ trade has caused a worldwide upheaval. Human rights issues encircling the illicit human organ trade as well as the effects of this trade in China and globally should be examined and analyzed.


cont...

[iverglas]

21. It sux? really? why?

The US executes people.

Is China executing people in order to obtain their organs?

If not, what's the difference between the US and China here?

What is particulary suxy about using the organs of dead people for the living?

What actually sux is killing people, I'd say.


Now, to apply a little more sophisticated analysis: allowing a market to exist in organs removed from dead people significantly increases the risk that organs taken from living people will be bought and sold on that market, and that is a genuine concern.

[michreject]

24. There was a report that China was executing for organs

And no I'm not looking for it.

[conspirator]

22. Why not go live under a bridge? Isn't it better to be a beggar than a slave

A beggar at least is self-emploeyd

[iverglas]

23. well, hey, there's a choice

(a) Put your family under a bridge, if you can find one, and hope they aren't carried away by monsoons and mudslides and the like, or die of whatever diseases might run rampant among gatherings of people living under bridges beside water, and attempt to feed them by begging

(b) Sell a kidney to pay off debt so your wages can go to feeding your family


I'd take (b), myself.

But then, I wouldn't say Give me liberty or give my family death.