Am I mistaken or is the liberal face changing?

[backtoblue]

I was under the impression that for the most part liberals are:

1. Against deforestation and ecological disruptions
2. For better and safer gun laws
3. For peace and negotiation
4. For helping those in poverty
5. Against intolerance toward one another (even the ones we disagree with)


I'm beginning to believe that politicians are sock puppets and we are so easily distracted from what is really going on that we have lost the vision of democracy to the disillusionment of capitalism and petty bickering.

It seems as if everything has a price nowadays and if you got the money honey, you got the power to make things go your way.

[valerief]

1. Bill Maher says that Democrats are the New Republicans and Republicans are just plain crazy. nt

[backtoblue]

6. People are greedy and pompous and as a society, we have become utterly arrogant.

There's not much unity, but a whole hell of alot of conformity to the way things now "work". We have a government based almost solely on economics - and monetary gain is not a safe way to make major decisions.

[timeforpeace]

2. You forgot, against war. For peace doesn't quite capture the essense of it IMO. The problem with

this one issue is, if the liberal leader is for war(s), his followers become for war(s). Or this seems to be what has happened.

[backtoblue]

10. Yes, against war is more appropriate

We're told that wars will bring us peace, but we should know better. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

3. Pukes made liberal a dirty word

and in the process, they exposed the many, many supposed liberals who had no real convictions at all.

Not all of us have changed, but a lot of the fair-weather libs have shown their true colors by now.

[backtoblue]

23. It seems to me that some people's convictions are solely to pick apart others.

ng

[FiveGoodMen]

27. I'm sure you're right about that.

But what I see mostly is team spirit.

We -- whoever 'we' refers to -- are right and 'they' are wrong. "I support the team!" Etc. Etc.

The number of things people hated Bush for and yet don't mind coming from Obama is a pretty big indicator that Rs and Ds matter more than ideas.

People seem to find great virtue in identifying with a particular group. If the things that group stands for change, their adherents change right along with the tide.

[redqueen]

4. As for everything having a price nowadays... sure,

if 'nowadays' means for most of the history of civilization.

[leftofthedial]

5. most of the "democrats" now are just the roller derby team in blue

instead of the roller derby team in red.

It makes no sense to continue pretending we still have two meaningful political parties. We do not. We DO have corporations who own the longest-running miniseries/faux-sports/reality TV event in broadcast history--the US "government."

[rucky]

7. Maybe power corrupts vicariously, too?

[hfojvt]

8. there has been dissent here on #2

and #4 has generally taken a back seat to other issues too, like 'prosecuting Dick Cheney' and before that 'impeachment' and things like Michael Jackson (or Tookie, I always like to bring up Tookie. That was a battle royale for weeks.) get discussed more than poverty. But what is there to discuss if we all mostly agree? When it gets down to specifics about HOW to help those in poverty, then there is dissent again. Especially if MY taxes are gonna go up. "Hey, I only make $60,000 a year. Living in Boston, I practically AM poor. I cannot pay more taxes. I'm just barely getting by."

As for #5, there is little tolerance even towards those we disagree with on DU, much less in the larger world. We do not tolerate FReepers because they are all religiously insane, morans, homophobes, sexists and racists. It's a bad thing to tolerate such Nazi scum.

Some DUers who dissent are probably really FReepers even if they have skated by for a number of years and have over 10,000 posts. It's a bad thing to tolerate them too. See above.

[backtoblue]

15. I think the importance of certain issues are taking a backseat to extramarital affairs and gossiping

media. The people suffering from poverty need help now, not when Rush shuts his trap. I think we give too much attention to things that are trivial and not enough to the issues that demand immediate action - like protecting our children from gun violence, poverty, and intolerance. nt

[backtoblue]

16. dupe

[doc03]

9. Just because one is a Democrat

doesn't mean you are a Liberal. Being a Republican doesn't mean you are conservative. In my opinion Liberal and Conservative are the extreme opposite of each other.

[backtoblue]

17. If I am to be defined as a liberal, I want to let others know what I believe.

If I do not believe as a liberal, then I want to set the record straight and let my views be labeled with another word.

[MercutioATC]

11. Politicians or voters?

Politicians are politicians first.

If we're talking voters, I'd submit that it's easy to be way to the left when you're protesting a power structure that's way to the right. It's harder to do when one in in the driver's seat and has to deal with realities.

"Liberals" are traditionally the protectors of Constitutional rights...whether it be freedom of speech or freedom of religion.....or the right to bear arms. 60's and 70's "liberals" may have wanted more gun control, but I don't believe that it's the case any more.

[elocs]

12. Money=power. In the real world it always has and always will.

As for #5: "Against intolerance toward one another (even the ones we disagree with)" I don't see a lot of evidence that there is tolerance for "even the ones we disagree with". With too many Liberals it is either their way or the highway and they only have tolerance for those who agree with them.

[sam sarrha]

13. there cant be any Democratic Government till only citizens with a birth certificate can contribute

money to election campaigns, end the bribes..

[EFerrari]

14. That happened in Chicago in 1968. n/t

[doc03]

18. I vote Democrat and

I am not for deforestation or for ecological disruptions but I don't want to force Americans to lead an Amish lifestyle either. I don't think taking the law abiding peoples rights to own a gun away because someone else breaks the law solves anything either. I am for peace but in some cases like North Korea or Iran we have to stand up for our own interests. I am not pro poverty but I don't believe in taking someone else's hard earned wealth and just handing it over to another is fair. I think there are limits to what someone should tolerate from others. I think if you are going to start a new government program you find a way to fairly fund it first.

[napoleon_in_rags]

20. Yeah, there are a lot of pro-gun dems.

I've seen and met them myself, its not misrepresentation. They may be the majority in the party in fact.

[backtoblue]

21. I said better and safer gun laws, not prohibition or taking away rights.

There has to be a way to keep guns out of the hands of children.

[doc03]

25. I didn't know we had any massive

murder sprees or a crime wave by children. If you own a gun secure it with a lock or keep it in a locked gun case. It's the individual gun owners personal responsibility to keep their guns out of children's hands. As a gun owner I shouldn't be punished because of someone else's stupidity.

[tabasco]

19. KOOM-BI-YAAAH MY LORD! KOOM-BI-YAAAH!

Your impressions are simplistic and your generalizations stupid.

For example, "against deforestation" doesn't mean not cutting down a single fucking tree.

Liberals are for wise land use.

Republicans are for selling off national forests to logging companies.

Take your pick.

[backtoblue]

22. Thank you for your interpretation. If things were made to be more simple, perhaps we could make

wiser decisions.

[ColbertWatcher]

24. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"

I know that's not technically in your post, but it's another thing liberal politicians were once known for.

[bvar22]

26. Ruh-Roh, Comrade.

You have attracted the attention of the self-appointed Political Correctness Commissars.
They are armed with their little anonymous "UnRec" buttons, and if your opinion doesn't conform, you WILL be banished.

Hint: Don't think anything that isn't homogenized Vanilla, and pre-approved by the Correctness Commissars.

As far as your opinion:
No. Real Liberals are still Real Liberals.
We are Issues Oriented, and our beliefs don't change no matter who sits in the White House.
Those whose "beliefs" change, really have NO beliefs.
Thats why "Centrism" is so popular.
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to "unrecommend" those who do.

I STILL stand for the same old things:

I am an advocate for the IMMEDIATE withdrawal of ALL US Military Forces from the Middle East.

I am an advocate for the REDUCTION of Defense Spending by at least 50%.

I am an advocate for Civil Rights and Equal Protections for ALL....no exceptions.

I am an advocate for Single Payer Universal HealthCare.

I am an advocate for FREE Universal Education at ALL levels.

I am an advocate for Rule of Law, no exceptions for the Elite Class.

I am an advocate for The Constitution and the immediate restoration of our rights as listed in that document.

I am a advocate for The Poor and the Disenfranchised.

I am an advocate for Working Americans and Organized LABOR.
(Wall Street Bankers can go bust and stand in bread lines with the rest of us.)

I am an advocate for Economic Justice where Mom & Pop and the small Farmer can compete with Big Corpo on a level playing field.

I am a STRONG opponent to "Free Trade" (Race to the Bottom).

I am an opponent of the MIC.

I am an opponent to the concentration of Wealth & Power into fewer hands.

I am an advocate of preserving the Environment, especially those resources that can't be renewed.

I am an opponent to Corporate/Republican Influence INSIDE the Democratic Party.


Some things don't change.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[backtoblue]

33. I wish I could've put it together that well.

Thank you and I am glad there are still those that care about what REALLY matters.

backtoblue

[Fumesucker]

28. What did you expect?

A popular Democrat now has the presidency and Democrats now ostensibly control Congress, of course a great many Democrats are going to adjust their views to match whatever the POTUS and the Dem leadership in Congress wishes.

It's really more about being on a winning team than it is about having actual principles and scruples.

[KakistocracyHater]

29. those are the tent poles I mentioned, worth saving & defending

maybe we need to find a way to regularly meet face to face our reps, because we become real people when seen, otherwise we're just a number. When multi-national corps. are getting their way, we need a coherent meet-up with our rep with what WE want.

[Vidar]

30. There are precious few liberals in the government. Obama & his centrists are what

used to be Republicans.

[bvar22]

31. Centrist = Half Republican

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Vidar]

32. Great quote. Thank you.

[Jennicut]

34. Gun control is not really a popular part of being a liberal/Dem anymore

A lot of people think it did not really work. I am kind of torn on it.

[backtoblue]

36. It is becoming an unpopular view, considered too "liberal".

I think my main concern with gun laws is within the inner cities, but rural areas have had problems with violence as well. The problem with illegal arms is what needs to be dealt with and it seems as if people have "surrendered" to the idea that the government can't do anything about it. nt

[Jennicut]

39. Many die hard liberals are torn on it, that is the problem with it

I think we all know that getting illegal guns has little to do with controlling how people get guns legally.
We make an incredible amount of guns in this country, its ridiculous. Getting these guns illegally is so easy. How to stop that is the issue to me.

[Tim01]

35. I'm a pro 2nd amendment Democrat. So, I don't support #2. Agree with the rest. nt

[MadHound]

37. Liberals aren't changing, but those who are supposedly representing them have changed

Both parties are now represented by one of two major parties that are beholden to corporate interests. Thus, corporate priorities are addressed above all, and the rest of us are left out in the cold, without a viable way to make our voice heard. I suspect that we're going to see a major change here, with the fundy right breaking away from the 'Pugs to form their own party. What's left of the 'Pugs will be absorbed into the Democrats, and liberals will break away from the Dems to form their own party or support the Greens.

[derby378]

38. What makes gun laws "better" and "safer?"

Better gun laws are laws that reinforce and strengthen my Second Amendment rights.

Safer guns laws are laws that guarantee that any gun I buy - hunting rifle, shotgun, handgun, or whatever - will not jam or malfunction with proper care, will not blow up in my hand, will have a reasonable degree of accuracy, etc.