Top tax rates around the world, or at least developed economies

[nadinbrzezinski]

here is a myth, that Americans are heavily taxed... well the facts bely this



Now here is an exercise I would like people to make... the rate of social services, and silly shit like access to education and them tax rates.

Then try to tell me that the people in this country are heavily taxed. Oh and I will make a prediction. Canada will be in fiscal trouble one of these days. Just call it a sneaky suspicion...

Oh and on edit these are top marginal rates... but they serve to illustrate the point.

[TexasObserver]

1. And the actual effective rate of the US on corps is around 11%.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yes, and that is the point

we are not that heavily taxed

[lindisfarne]

31. Except it looks like your chart is for INDIVIDUALS, not CORPORATIONS. So you haven't

made any point about corporations.
But, I appreciate the point you're making about Individuals.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I never said this was about corporations, the top rate

is for INDIVIDUALS

Corporate rates are a whole different horror, a few don;t pay taxes in this country... think big names

[lindisfarne]

42. Your response in #2 which was a reply to #1 was what I was referring to (I responded to #2)NT

[valerief]

4. And they don't even pay that! nt

[upi402]

3. And look at the very high income level at those low tax rates

I have debated rightists SO many times online about taxes but never had the info I wanted. It always made me feel that my google-monkey abilities were sorely lacking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. These are top marginal rates, aka the very rich

there are other useful links out there... but one that is always useful is this one

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

So when they say that they are very high now, as in historically high, they are full of shit and then some.

:-)

Notice we are at 35 right now, (before loopholes), at one point it was at 90

[upi402]

15. Thank you!

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. You welcome, it is important to translate things to English

:-)

[ihavenobias]

21. I love that link.

I've used it in arguments before! Do you happen to have a link to that awesome graph in the OP?

K & R

[rucky]

16. They don't really like to advertise the truth about taxation.

It breaks up the tea parties.

Here's a good source: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/index.cfm

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Thanks, a place to explore later

[LiberalFighter]

23. Keep in mind that even though the US rate listed as 35% is not the true rate.

If a person is paying at the 35% rate they are only paying 35% on the portion of the income that falls within that rate. A person that has enough income that reaches the 35% would have income taxed at 7 different levels.

The totals of all deductions and exemptions are not taxed.

Less than 16,700 is taxed at 10%

Between 16,700 and 67,900 taxed at 15%

Between 67,900 and 137,050 taxed at 25%

Between 137,050 and 208,850 taxed at 28%

Between 208,850 and 372,950 taxed at 33%

Between 372,950 and above taxed at 35%


It is not all taxed at 35% if someone's taxable income is 380,000.

[hobbit709]

5. Not too long ago the Swedes overwhelmingly voted

in a referendum that they would rather raise taxes than cut their social services.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Unlike some of my fellow residents who cannot get it

you want services, you need to pay for them.

[Spazito]

8. Ummm, Canada is weathering the current economic crisis the best in all the..

G8 countries and with a lower tax rate than the US while offering universal healthcare. Go figure eh!

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Top marginal rate, and it is not

it is actually having some issues.

FYI.

[Spazito]

13. Yes, as it is the "top marginal rate" for all the countries in your graph...

ergo still apples to apples. We have less issues than any of the other G8 countries, we started with a healthy surplus because we did NOT de-regulate our banks, de-regulate our industries, etc.

FYI, I am Canadian, am living the "issues" and, trust me, they are not near the crisis the US is experiencing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. No it is not, you are right now where we were about 20 years ago

remember, it took a generation (almost two) to get here for the US... but readying the Toronto Star I smell a little of the anti-tax, but I want all services, we read in the US regularly.

And your PM is an ass... just like many in my state are assess. as well as quite a bit of the Federal elected reps.

[Spazito]

24. The current PM IS an ass but he is in a MINORITY government...

the previous government was the government that ensured Canada would and IS weathering the economic storm. We HAVE universal healthcare, you do not, we have the services you want to have and do not.

We did not de-regulate the banks ergo no banking disaster, no stock market disaster, etc, etc, etc.

More of our Federal representatives are NOT in the minority government, they are in the OPPOSITION. Thank goodness for the Parliamentary system.

The difference is our top rate kicks in when one reaches 68,000 pounds while yours doesn't kick in until 256,000 pounds, BIG difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Trust me I am aware

and to split the difference it is quite simple... the US needs whole sale review of its tax system and glass steegal. Now here is a piece of trivia, the UK is not in good shape, why? they make the US look regulated. That is scary.

But the point is that some of the lingo that used to be radical and minority here, is now given some cred in Canada. Why I said ye are in some ways, in the propaganda war, where we were when Reagan came to power, at least officially. It truly started after the 1964 election, where the modern conservative movement took shape.

So watch it... as you too can have the same fun,,, in a generation or two

[Spazito]

29. One thing we Canadians are good at is, by and large, learning from the mistakes...

of others which is why our banks remain regulated, our industries remain regulated, our citizens overwhelmingly support our universal healthcare system. We learn from other's mistakes as well as our own and we don't, for the most part, repeat them.

You may not be aware but at the time of Reagan, we had our own little treasure known far and wide as Lyin Brian aka Brian Mulroney, a close buddy of Reagan and the Bushies. He drove our country to near third world status so we are WELL aware of the dangers of modern conservatism and, as a result, the party Mulroney led was decimated going from a majority government to total annihilation, the Progressive Conservative Party no longer exists. That is why the government we have now is ONLY a minority government, we learn from our mistakes and others.

Edited to correct spelling error.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Yeah I remember Mulroney

CSPAN and ask the PM was FUN with him... he made Harper look mild...

As to the US... I HOPE history phobic Americans will learn THIS TIME.

Let me see, same shit different decade already several times

US Grant, 1870s, oh and the level of corruption was historic, really

Good Ol' Calvin Coolidge and the Great Depression...

And well NOW....

A trickle down, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Spazito]

32. No argument from me on that at all!

I would dearly love to see Americans, all Americans, have healthcare where they did not have to choose between buying food or going to the doctor, where falling ill didn't bring the threat of bankruptcy and foreclosure. If that happens, I think lessons WILL have been learned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. It is coming I think

I truly do.

Why? EVEN republicans (51%) want it

[Spazito]

34. I do too! I am very optimistic this time n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. By the way, you realize most people round these parts are probably scratching their heads?

WTF? Who the hell is Mulroney, and Harper? And what is this strange system you are talking about (Parlamentary), for the record, who the heck is this Grant dude?

Sad, I know....

By the way I LOVE toronto... for more than just the American looking at Canada. Bro lived in Canada for ten years, and I loved riding the subway downtown... the Pickle was one of my favs places to eat. The mall downtown, the geese hanging from the ceiling is a scene I love.

[Spazito]

39. LOL, true, alien names, strange systems

I lived in and around Toronto for 3 years but, to be honest, didn't care for it too much. I found it a rather cold, cliquish city, I loved Montreal while I was there but, overall, prefer the west, love Vancouver. Ironically, I now live in Alberta, the Province known as Texas North, the home province of our current asshat clown PM, Harper. As a result, I have had some INTERESTING conversations in the last few years, lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Alberta plays it all the way to the cows and rodeos

I know

LOL

I grew up in Mexico City... so I am a city girl, never mind I did many a field rescue in the desert.

[imdjh]

10. What exactly do these rates mean?

If you make £150,000 in the UK and the tax rate is 50%, does that mean that you pay £75,000 in taxes? Or does it mean that on income over £150K you pay 50% and you pay a lower rate on say, the first fifty, a higher rate on the second fifty, a higher rate on the third fifty and then 50% on earning above £150?

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. This is the top marginal rate, the ones the very rich scream over

so yes you got it right.

If you make 150,000 in the UK, that is their top marginal rate, five percent of all tax payers best case. You start paying at 50% of your income, of course that is before the necessary loopholes that I am proof positive their fiscal system has, just like ours.

In the US the top marginal rate is 35%, but after loopholes some folks pay less taxes than I do.

[mopinko]

22. fyi, those loopholes are drying up.

when you get past a certain income, most of your deductions are phased out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Yeah, but that is this year... you know how the game is played

[seeviewonder]

11. This has almost nothing to do with taxes,

but it does have something to do with economic policy. I am about to graduate with a B.S. in economics from a large university and even I do not believe that the free market system will work for an economy of the people. I have been studying historical economic policies (especially conservative policies) that favor non-regulation (which, in my opinion, is completely bullshit) and just realized something important. The bottom line is this: the economic policies of Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s caused The Great Depression for the simple fact that he favored the deregulation of markets and monopolization. The funny thing is that Reagan embraced this and used Coolidge as a reason for people to elect him...CONSERVATIVES ARE IGNORANT SHEEP!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You are correct, and here is a tip

look into US Grant and his policies. With some changes those were the ones used by Coolidge, and later by Reagan. Trickle down has been doing its ahem, magic, under different names, for over a hundred years.

And welcome to DU

:hi:

[seeviewonder]

18. Thanks for the Welcome!

I wish I knew that this site existed a long time ago! I am here to help anyone interested in progressive ideas and I hope to run for office myself in central Illinois soon. The sad thing is that the part of Illinois I live in is dominated by conservative Repukes! I welcome any suggestions since I am new to this site and want to explore all it has to offer.

[tblue37]

25. What people don't realize is that they pay the money anyway.

Here in Kansas, the R-controlled state legislature won't tax sufficiently to support public education. People think the legislators are saving them money by not raising taxes, but of course the taxpayers then shell out ever-rising fees to bus their kids to school, ever-rising fees to allow their kids to go on field trips or participate in sports, band, or any sort of school club or activity. Because the legislature won't tax wealthy businesses and corporations at a fair rate, ordinary people end up having to pay for thigngs that really should be provided as part of the state's ifrastructure.

Here in Lawrence, it is only now that our city is considering having the city charge a small surtax on the utility bill of all taxpayers in order to maintain sidewalks, since sidewalks ae, after all, used by the entire public, not just by individual proeprty owners.

As it is now, individual property owners are supposed to repair and maintain all the sidewalks along their property, which is beyond what most can afford. As a result, our city's sidewalks are in terrible condition and downright dangerous in many places. Also, many places where you would expect to find sidewalks don't even have them. When I first moved here in 1970, I was shocked to discover that one was expected to walk in the street in most places in the city, even in residential areas, because there simply were no sidewalks. Even little schoolchildren were expected to spend much of their walking time between home and school walking in the streets because there weren't enough sidewalks! Soemtimes there would be a sidewalk for a block--and then you'd have to walk in the street for several blocks to get where you were going.

Either everyone pays a fair share of taxes to ensure that needed public services and infrastructure are provided for all, or a few people--usually ones who cannot afford it--end up having to pay exorbitant out-of-pocket fees for such things, even though they should be considered a public good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I wish I could recommend this... you are very correct

[ipaint]

26. Thanks for the graph. In addition the wealthy

only pay 15% long term capital gains tax. Thats where they get their other massive tax break because that's what most of them live on.

[applegrove]

27. Canada can get away with such a low rate because we have a 5% federal value

added sales tax on everything from homes to haircuts. Send your daughter to the mall with $100 burning a hole in her pocket? The health care system sees $5 of that. It really works well. And the poor and the working poor get GST refunds a couple of times a year to make up for the tax they are paying on non necessities.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Also the VAT was modified a while ago

to make it a little more palatable and progressive, right? Trying to keep up with somebody else's policies on top of mine, is getting difficult.