Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

No wonder the WTO hates the USA - the Director is a Marxist

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:19 AM
Original message
No wonder the WTO hates the USA - the Director is a Marxist
World Trade Organization Director Pascal Lamy, one of globalization's shrewdest observers, rehabilitates the Marxist criticism of capitalism.

A man of the Left and director general of the World Trade Organization, Pascal Lamy is at the heart of globalization. His sense of things? Marxism remains pertinent as a tool for analysis of modern capitalism. His conviction? We must look for alternatives to this same capitalism.

Challenges: Does Marx, as a certain number of recent authors have written, remain the best thinker about contemporary capitalism?

Pascal Lamy: Not the best, because history has shown us that he was not the prophet some vaunted. But from the perspective of nonpredictive explanatory power nothing comparable exists. If one wants to analyze the globalized market capitalism of today, the essential tools reside in the intellectual toolkit Marx and some of those who inspired him created. Of course, everything is not perfect. There are stacks of criticisms to level against Marx, and he was probably a better philosopher and economic theoretician than he was a political thinker....

What do you retain from Marx?

Before everything else, the idea that market capitalism is a system based on a certain theory of value and the dynamic and the dysfunctions it may generate. A system where there are owners of capital who buy labor and holders of their own labor power who sell that. That relationship implies a theory of profit which ensues from alienation: the system has the tendency for the rich to become richer as they accumulate capital and for the poor to become poorer when they own nothing but their labor. All that remains largely true. No one since Marx has invented an analysis of the same significance. Even globalization is only a historical stage of market capitalism as Marx imagined it.

http://www.truthout.org/article/pascal-lamy-capitalism-cannot-satisfy-us


Here is the latest "Insult to Injury" from the WTO

U.S. should pay for carbon content of imported goods: Locke



SHANGHAI (Reuters) - To address the serious threat of global warming, Americans should be required to "pay" for the carbon content of goods they consume from countries around the world, a top U.S. official said on Friday.

"It's important that those who consume the products being made all around the world to the benefit of America -- and it's our own consumption activity that's causing the emission of greenhouse gases, then quite frankly Americans need to pay for that," Commerce Secretary Gary Locke told the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai.

Locke spoke to the business group after meetings this week with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and other officials on how the two countries could work together to reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming.

Unless China, the United States and other countries begin to reduce output of the heat-trapping gases, the world faces a "catastrophe" in the form of more frequent floods, droughts and rising sea levels, Locke said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE56G1A320090717


Let me see if I have this correct.....

China joins the WTO - then refuses to negotiate on lowering the 25-45% tariffs they place on USA made goods - China then produces more pollutants then the entire western hemisphere put together - China places export quotas (in violation of WTO rules and regulations) on steel and various other metals in a predatory trade practices against USA industries

AND THEY WANT THE USA TO PAY FOR IT



ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-BullShit!!!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Pascal Lamy is right:
"But from the perspective of nonpredictive explanatory power nothing comparable exists. If one wants to analyze the globalized market capitalism of today, the essential tools reside in the intellectual toolkit Marx and some of those who inspired him created."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Marxism as demonstrated in Russia "Failed Miserably"
Just think about the 100s of 1000s Stalin killed off to reach an affordable population
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. True about Stalinism, but how did Marx cause this?
Lamy is talking about critical theory--Marxism's explanatory value in understanding global capital. He is by no means suggesting we need a Stalinist system. Trash Marx all you want, but Marx had little or nothing to do with actual socialism in the 20th century. Those failed economies and social systems were very distant from Marx's analysis of capitalism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. State Communism isn't Marxism. Soviet era SC"failed" for 70 years.
State Communism competed with "free market" capitolism until the arms race of the 80's bankrupted the former Soviet Union.

Make no mistake, the brutal history of the treatment of the Soviet people ranks amongst the worst of atrocities in human history.

Free market capitolism hasn't treated the poor and working class much better.

Both have long histories of disgusting human rights violations.

America before unions organized and post Atomic Ronny Ray-Gun America are prime examples.

America's treatment of it's sick, poor, homeless, indigenous(the forgotten native American). Just a few quick examples of the the human right violations and atrocities still being committed by free market Democratic Capitolism.

Imagine the horror of state capitolism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. America's treatment of it's sick, poor, homeless, indigenous
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 11:41 AM by FreakinDJ
America's treatment of it's sick, poor, homeless, indigenous in no way compares to what Stalin did with his and Stalin rose to power on Marxist ideals.

It has been a while since I've read much on Marxist, and Stalin so please forgive me if I seem uninformed. I read them and summarily dismissed them as I witnessed the results. What Marxism presents is a set of lofty ideals that can never be obtained due to 1 simple factor = The Human Element.

There is always going to be some one with a "Brand New Hip Slick Idea" which a merely means to exploit, capitolise, and control.

What concerns me with the possibility of the WTO being controled by Marist Ideals is that by nature it mandates the transference of wealth from the USA to 3rd world countries, but does nothing to mandate the equitable treatment of it's peoples
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Why use the crimes of Stalin to mitigate the crimes of American history?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Friends who lived through Cuba and Romania going communist
have a fairly significant amount of horror stories "they personally lived through"

By far my favorite was "A Horse with a Tooth Ache" - Fidels Castro's torture of choice. He would first find a horse with a tooth ache looking to chew on some thing to releive the pain, and then place you in a concrete and steel bar jail cell with the horse. - Ever notice the wooden fence rails all chewed up on a horse's corral. That even beats any thing we could ever possibly prove against Bush

I could go on for hours but that would be senseless - you've made up your mind and I have made mine
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Of course, that is horrific.
But your fixation on the crimes of other countries and your denial, it seems, of crimes committed on American soil...that is cheap patriotism, the cheapest. You're fighting the Cold War still. Communism is no longer a threat to the American way, if it ever was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I believe communism will never work
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 04:44 PM by FreakinDJ
I've stated that clearly in the above post. It is against human nature no matter how euphoric it may seem. Their are always going to be those that seek to exploit the system be it Democratic or Communist, and Communist lends itself far too easily to be exploited by the few.

I don't deny there have been atrocities on both sides, and also civilization has matured to some extent over the years. I just feel in this century America's have been far less
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Marxism=True Change. We'll convert after Corporatism crashes..
the worlds economies and many nations fall.

Internationally, the people are rising up.

Power to the people.

Free market Capitalism is the greatest ponzi scheme ever pulled off on humanity.

May the people rise up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Unbrideled Capitolism is equally as bad as Marxism
Niether system by itself works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. How exactly is Marxism bad?
I would posit that Stalinist USSR was not Marxist at all,
and that a true Marxist society does not exist... that
what might have started out with a Marxist ideal in mind
never came to fruition but morphed into a kind of cemented
staterun capitalism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. "Brideled" Capitalism (whatever that means) still has much lacking
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 11:21 AM by Oregone
Anytime a baby can inherit the power to grossly profit off other's labor and production, you have a system that will promote massive inequality (and thus, poverty and the problems associated with the condition)

Why are you pro caste-systems?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Doubtful.
Socialists were having doubts about marxism in the 1900s. The future will probably be a hybrid of capitalism and socialism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Man, Y'all Sound Like Eve Brady - "Marxist, Marxist, MARXIST!"
Pretty funny, really. I mean, seriously. What proportion of political liberals in the US ever needed the cry of "Marxism!" to hate the WTO?

I remember a lot of slogans from Seattle. "WTO is MARXIST!" isn't one of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. He is spot on. Are you trying to sponsor new witch hunts?
People just aren't afraid of economic philosophy so much any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. In Case You Hadn't Noticed
"Marxist" became an insult on DU when Party animals gamed the boards during the primaries, or shortly thereafter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Marx's economic philosophy is alright.
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 11:26 AM by anonymous171
It's the accompanying social philosophy that I dislike.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC