President Carter: Many Children Were Tortured Under Bush

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/16/754191/-President-Carter:-Many-Children-Were-Tortured-Under-Bush

by Ralph Lopez

Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 12:35:52 PM PDT

President Jimmy Carter wrote that the Red Cross, Amnesty International and the Pentagon "have gathered substantial testimony of torture of children, confirmed by soldiers who witnessed or participated in the abuse." In "Our Endangered Values" Carter said that the Red Cross found after visiting six U.S. prisons "107 detainees under eighteen, some as young as eight years old." And reporter Hersh, (who broke the Abu Ghraib torture scandal,) reported 800-900 Pakistani boys aged 13 to 15 in custody.

Journalist Seymour Hersh's (who broke the Abu Ghraib scandal) bombshell before the ACLU some years ago has been in a temporary slumber, as there is question as to whether the videotapes in possession of the Pentagon were among those claimed to be destroyed. Destroyed or not, there is still the conscience of soldiers and agents who bore witness to contend with, as the reign of political terror against whistleblowers which characterized the Bush administration subsides. Hersh said:

" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said at the time:

"The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

[KansDem]

1. OF COURSE THEY WERE, GODDAMNIT!!!

Many of us knew about this when Sy Hersh first published his article regarding his talk before the ACLU (2004?) But nooooo!!! The fucking media refused to pursue these stories! The fucking media continued to be lapdogs for fucking BushCo and the fucking GOP!!!

We had the most grievous, evil, sick-minded criminals in the highest echelons of government! And the fucking media refused to report on them!

[kath]

31. and our current president just wants to "move on", don't look to the past, blah, blah.

:puke:

[KansDem]

76. Yes, we did that with the Iran/arms for hostages scandal...

And look where that got us.

The same players, the same scams...

"......former Congressman Lee Hamilton, chairman of the House select committee investigating the Iran-contra affair, was shown ample evidence against Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, but he did not probe their wrongdoing. Why did Hamilton choose not to investigate? In a late 1980s interview aired on PBS 'Frontline,' Hamilton said that he did not think it would have been 'good for the country' to put the public through another impeachment trial. In Lee Hamilton's view, it was better to keep the public in the dark than to bring to light another Watergate, with all the implied ramifications. When Hamilton was chairman of the House committee investigating Iran-contra, he took the word of senior Reagan administration officials when they claimed Bush and Reagan were 'out of the loop.' Independent counsel Lawrence Walsh and White House records later proved that Reagan and Bush had been very much in the loop. If Hamilton had looked into the matter instead of accepting the Reagan administration's word, the congressional investigation would have shown the public the truth. Hamilton later said he should not have believed the Reagan officials. However, today, George W. Bush is considering appointing Hamilton UN ambassador."

Uncovering the Florida cover-up: The good fight continues

A Past Look, 25 December, 2000

"One of the key congressional Republicans fighting this rear-guard action was Rep. Dick Cheney of Wyoming, who became the ranking House Republican on the Iran-contra investigation. Cheney already enjoyed a favorable reputation in Washington as a steady conservative hand. Cheney smartly exploited his relationship with Rep. Lee Hamilton, D-Ind., who was chairman of the Iran-contra panel. Hamilton cared deeply about his reputation for bipartisanship and the Republicans quickly exploited this fact. A senior committee source said one of Cheney’s top priorities was to block Democrats from deposing Vice President Bush about his Iran-contra knowledge. Cheney 'kept trying to intimidate Hamilton,' the source said. 'He kept saying if we go down that road, we won’t have bipartisanship.' So, Hamilton gave Bush a pass. The limited investigation also gave little attention to other sensitive areas, such as contra-drug trafficking and the public diplomacy operation. They were pared down or tossed out altogether. Despite surrendering to Cheney’s demands time and again, Hamilton failed, in the end, to get a single House Republican to sign the final report. Only three moderate Republicans on the Senate side – Warren Rudman, William Cohen and Paul Trible – agreed to sign the report, after extracting more concessions. Cheney and the other Republicans submitted a minority report that denied that any significant wrongdoing had occurred."

Covering Up Iran-Contra - Robert Parry

Consortium News, 5 November 2000

Robert Parry is an investigative reporter who broke many of the Iran-contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/hamiltoniran-contra.htm

[D-Lee]

48. Yes, the "news media" now gives a platform and exposure to liars

The two "talking heads" approach to news just feeds the lies, acting as if liars have something of serious substance to say. The liars get eliminated from the debate only when indicted or convicted ...

As we watch those in the news mourning the passing of Walter Cronkite, just remember that the "new news" owes more to Rove than to Cronkite. And that the Comedy Channel is more objective than CNN or Fox.

Some progress, huh?

[midnight]

54. I think the media is also packed with those criminals.

[defendandprotect]

2. K&R back later --

[get the red out]

3. A former US President

Can someone in the media pay attention now? Or are they going to say "Well, it is just Jimmy Carter and you know what Limbaugh and Hannity say about him, he can't be right".

The everyday people in this country are not going to pay any attention until Brian Williams, Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric are plastering it in their faces on the nightly news. Until it is story #1 at 6:30 on a week night to most Americans it didn't happen. This not happening is what the Republicans are counting on. And it has to happen before the present administration dares go after the former administration for war crimes.

[malaise]

9. They ignored him for all the Bush years

M$Greedia is a shameless corporate whore.

[bjobotts]

17. Come on guys. "Operation Mockingbird" remember. CIA operatioin to control the media

[bjobotts]

18. They got where they are by being in the pocket of corporatists so they expose what they are allowed

[bjobotts]

19. Unless the few that aren't there yet make it impossible to ignore and report anyway.

[bjobotts]

20. These millionaire media darlings won't chance their careers by instigating news but

[bjobotts]

21. but they will fofllow along if others break the story first.Gibson,Williams-jerks

[bjobotts]

22. This is so vile that the cover up will be hard to break through.Obama must bring accountability

[bjobotts]

23. If we are ever to confront our hypocrisy of justice for all.

[L. Coyote]

28. You realize we have a message feature, right below the subject line!

[Capt. America]

53. The media pays attention when it is former VP Darth Cheney.

[WinkyDink]

64. Exactly. Maybe the same way Cronkite ended each show ith a "It's day XXX of the

Iranian hostage situation."

IOW, make up for "Uncle Walt's" helping to DESTROY the Presidency of Jimmy Carter.

[JerseygirlCT]

71. Beyond the powers that be problem

I think the people who make up the MSM simply don't want to have to make us all face what we've been complicit in. It's so horrendous... there's probably a strong feeling of "let's ignore it all and make it go away, or we won't be able to live with ourselves" in all of this.

[AzDar]

4. K & R

[Spazito]

5. Here is a thread from 2004 on the women of Abu Graib

It is still a horrifying read even with all we know today, imo:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=570508

and this thread from a WP article, May 2004, entitled: Iraqis Provide More Details of Abuse

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=570725

[bjobotts]

24. War crimes from an evil American administration must be confronted not ignored

[mix]

6. Shameful

We cannot turn the page until justice is done.

[bjobotts]

25. Horrorifying, contemptable, sadistic and evil.We never agreed to this.

[dgibby]

7. That's an order I'd have had no difficulty refusing when I was active duty.

I refused orders that were much less onerous that torturing children, and I still managed to retire as a senior officer. The magic words are:

With all due respect to your rank, Sir, I am refusing to obey this order because it is unlawful according to UCMJ.

[Swagman]

42. good for you. It's also called having honor !

[Bluenorthwest]

8. "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done"

Leonardo Da Vinci said that.

[Time for change]

10. Let it ALL come out!

No more bullshit excuses.

[sabrina 1]

11. Before the photos surfaced from Abu Ghraib

there were already rumors of torture in US controlled prisons. In January of 2004, a report about an investigation into allegations of 'abuse of prisoners' by 'a few soldiers' was on the mainstream news briefly, and then forgotten.

As early as the Fall of 2003, people like Robert Fisk were reporting stories of torture in US held prisons. I think it was he who first reported the story of a woman named 'Noor' who had passed a letter out of the prison asking her 'brothers' to blow it up as what had happened to them was so shameful, the women, she did not want to live. There was an attempt to blow up the prison around that time.

There were also reports of Iraqi lawyers trying to get into the prison to find out whether or not these allegations were true and trying to speak to the women, attempts which failed.

All this happened months before the photos surfaced and all these reports were laughed at and denied until they could not be denied anymore.

I never forgot the woman, Noor, not sure at the time if the story was true and hoping against hope that it was not. But, there was verification on the tapes we have not been allowed to see, that she did indeed exist as she is said to have been seen in those tapes.

One artist who was given a description of what is on those tapes, drew his impressions of the horror, pictures of a woman and children, young boys, being abused. They were hard to look at so I can only imagine what the videos were like.

After these revelations, people tried to find Noor, but her family had moved and there was no further information about her.

If this country does not hold the monsters who orchestrated these atrocities accountable, it will continue to pay the price of having zero moral authority anymore. It will NOT go away.

As for Lindsey Graham's quoted statement, I remember when he said that. It was during the Abu Ghraib hearings and was directed to Cheney who wanted the hearings stopped. Graham and a few others had gone to watch the tapes. He was white when he emerged from the viewing and I believe he said 'Mr. Vice President, let us do our job, we are talking about murder, rape etc. I don't remember exactly but I did see him on television make that plea to Cheney and hoped something would be done.

But, it was not to be. The hearings stopped and there were no more. In another coincidence that benefited the Bush administration, the awful news of the death of Nick Berg came out right then and was used to justify the torture and to silence people like Sen. Leahy who wanted to continue the hearings. And once again, justice was delayed and denied and the perpetrators smiled and continued with their crimes.

[spanone]

12. god help us

[Wednesdays]

13. K&R

:kick:

[hootinholler]

14. And No Senator has called for a Grand Jury!

Has anyone?

-Hoot

[felinetta]

15. Those SOB's stole the election and killed people while making money off of war.

I detest them. I want them held accountable under oath and
soon.

[crickets]

16. I hope Jimmy keeps talking about this until it can no longer be ignored.

These crimes are reprehensible; they cannot be swept under the rug. Not this time. No more.

[winyanstaz]

26. Thank you Jimmy Carter...

Once again you prove to the world there are still good and brave Americans.

[L. Coyote]

27. Obama wants to look forward, not back????

Is Obama even a real Democrat?

[rucognizant]

45. He's keeping his council.

Do you want Obama asassinated?
The poisen/filth is oozing out slowly...at a point Obama will be able to move forward on it without danger to himself.
Patience...............lose the battle win the war!

[L. Coyote]

49. Excuses for not following the law does not absolve crimes of omission.

I don't enjoy people trying to kill me, but I'm not going to just shut up in the face of crime.

If you can't do the job, don't run for the office.
If you don't do the job, you should do the time too!

[Horse with no Name]

72. He is a centrist.

That means ONE thing to me.

[wiggs]

29. It's a crime to prosecute someone for political reasons. It's a crime NOT to

prosecute someone for political reasons as well.

[L. Coyote]

30. Ding! Ding! Ding! WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. kick and recommended for the truth !!!! And for Jimmy Carter - God Bless President Carter, the

great truth teller of our times.

[waiting for hope]

33. Jimmy Carter is right about a lot

of things - and as a humanitarian, it is probably killing him to know these atrocities have been carried out by the US.

K&R for Carter.

[grahamhgreen]

34. So that's what they meant by family values...

[mojowork_n]

35. It's awful to have to bring it up, but a few of those

underage prisoners might be better off in an American-run prison.

Earlier this year PBS showed a documentary that focused on two boys growing up in the Swaat Valley (sp?) in Pakistan, which has been the focus of conflict there. Very, very young children were being recruited to be suicide bombers. It was all extremely depressing.

[sabrina 1]

39. I don't see the relevance of that comparison.

These were Iraqi women and children, not Pakistanis, who would not have been in any prison had their country not been invaded. Pakistan is a whole other story. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a secular country. There was never a chance of those children becoming extremist suicide bombers in that country. They had no Islamic extremists there because extremists hated Saddam Hussein and he hated them.

You are also forgetting the over one hundred detainees in US custody who died of torture. I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off in any prison other than one run by the US. And those are just the numbers we know of. None were ever charged with a crime.

So, to say they might have been better off where they ended up, being tortured, sodomized, humiliated, scarred for life if they were lucky enough not be tortured to death, in their own country where this would never have happened to them without the illegal invasion, doesn't make any sense to me, sorry. Two entirely different countries and cultures.

I imagine with the reputation this country now has, ending up in any prison controlled by America is viewed as equally as bad as ending up in the prison of any oppressive regime.

And do not forget that imprisonment is not all they were forced to endure. Over one million of their fellow citizens, men women and children were slaughtered as a result of George Bush's illegal war.

We are NOT in a position to criticize anyone else, or to compare what is worse, being tortured by an American oppressor or by a Pakistani oppressor. We just don't have the moral authority to even discuss such comparisons until we deal with our own criminals first.

[L. Coyote]

50. You obviously have never been a political prisoner!

Where do you suppose they learned to do this? In France?

[Politicalboi]

36. Silly Jimmy

We only care about children before they are born. :sarcasm:

[Rhiannon12866]

37. K&R for President Carter!

Thankfully, he is still on the job, working for peace and fair elections, and speaking out on the injustices in the world... :patriot:

[leftstreet]

38. K&R

[Swagman]

40. oh this is just awful . I can't bear to hear of children being hurt. These monsters

must be tracked down and punished.

[Kablooie]

41. Oh no! Let's look the other way. No reason anyone should know more about this now. It's over.

:sarcasm:

[wuvuj]

43. Those darned Americans....

...

[Divine Discontent]

44. WELL! At least ONE president cares to address the mass rape & torture - the other ones are a joke

and the current holder of the office, well, at times I honestly am not even sure what the heck he even stands for... riding the fence mostly - and anbody's got nerve to say anything different when you know he repeatedly tows the centrist line in his commentary about torture & judicial accountability. He seems weak on that issue, and has given in to what the son of a bitch Cheney has 'suggested' repeatedly.

The line about how we need to look forward is disgusting to hear coming from someone that comes right after the most viciously sadistic and disgustingly evil administration America has seen! I can ONLY hope he says that because he has to protect an ulterior motive.


GOD BLESS JIMMY CARTER! A real American Hero!

[rucognizant]

46. Please................

Look what happened to Carter as President! He was politically assassinated and castrated.
JFK was murdered////these Bas---tds have a LOT of POWER!
Obama knows better....he's playing his cards very close to his breast...............his motives are good!

[L. Coyote]

51. It is pathetic that people are making excuses for Obama's failures.

And the Freepers excuse Bush/Cheney crimes because their motives were good.

You are either doing the right thing or NOT.
In the case of upholding the law and your oath of office,
you are either doing the right thing or committing an impeachable offense.

Using Holder as a cut-out doesn't cut it either.
Holder has to do his job, or Obama has to fire him!

[sasquuatch55]

58. I pray your right.

nt

[LiberalLovinLug]

59. It begs the question where is Bill Clinton?

Haven't heard a peep out of him about torture etc..

It would be great if all ex-Presidents had the balls of Jimmy Carter

[Divine Discontent]

70. that is a wonderful point... wonder why we've heard so little from him besides the supposed

'presidents shouldn't bad mouth one another' thing - well, when they're a vicious warmonger, you gotta say something eventually... would love to hear him speak on this. although, he's been accused of ordering torture also.

[indimuse]

47. KNR!

Prosecute NOW!!!!!

[jeanmarc]

52. Does anyone wonder why these stories have no 'bite'?

I'd like to see what happened under EVERY administration.

Our paychecks go to these guys. Let the sun shine on this horrible chit.

They say that it's an impossible dream to have both foreign intelligence and not kill or torture.

Are we not better?

[WinkyDink]

66. Americans are loathe to think ill of our "men and women in harm's way." Think "My Lai", and how

no-one wanted to believe.

[Vidar]

55. K&R for Jimmy Carter--the best conscience this nation has.

[DeadEyeDyck]

56. why don't they investigate?

I am always suspicious when people turn their heads. What is it that they don't want us to know?

[fascisthunter]

57. should show anyone who claims to be religious, of how evil Bush is

[DutchLiberal]

60. Carter didn't care much about torture when he was in office...

...and he backed and aided the military rulers of El Salvador and gave millions of dollars to the Suharto regime in Indonesia.

[WinkyDink]

65. The subject here, in case you missed it, is torture BY OUR AMERICAN SOLDIERS. OUR government.

[DutchLiberal]

68. So it is less horrible when it's being 'outsourced'?

Carter has been praised for his concern with human rights. Also by me. But I've done some reading. And it turns out that Carter had no problems backing regimes that were violating human rights on a constant basis.

[OwnedByFerrets]

61. And whats even worse, are the current enablers.

Yes, I'm fed up with the shit.

[Turbineguy]

62. Perhaps "the Media"

(except Fox News) was waiting to see the way the wind blew.

[bobthedrummer]

63. "Taguba Saw 'Video of Male Soldier Sodomizing Female Detainee'" by Jason Leopold (5-29-09 Truthout)

http//www.truthout.org/052909R

K&R

[spanone]

67. as chuck todd says, this torture stuff is just 'cable catnip'.....

God help us

[bemildred]

69. Goddamn pedophiles. nt

[bobthedrummer]

73. bttt

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobthedrummer]

75. Some of the mercenaries are involved in human trafficking, as well as wetwork...