A Quote from John Lennon on 'Class'

[Orwellian_Ghost]

"What do you think the effect of the Beatles was on the history of Britain?" - "I don't know about the history. The people who are in control and in power and the class system and the whole bullshit bourgeois scene is exactly the same except there is a lot of middle class kids with long hair walking round London in trendy clothes and Kenneth Tynan's making a fortune from the word 'fuck'. But apart from that, nothing happened except that we're all dressed up. The same bastards are in control, the same people are runnin' everything, it's exactly the same. They hyped the kids and the generation. We've grown up a little, a lot of us, and there has been a change and we're a bit freer and all that, but it's the same game, nothing's really changed. They're doing exactly the same things, selling arms to South Africa, killing blacks on the street, people are living in poverty with rats crawling over them, it's the same. It just makes you puke. And I woke up to that, too. The dream is over. It's just the same only I'm thirty and a lot of people have got long hair, that's all."

- John Lennon, 1970

"The distinctions separating the social classes are false; in the last analysis they rest on force."

- Albert Einstein

"When I see an actual flesh and blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to say which side I am on."

- George Orwell

[Maccagirl]

1. Almost 30 years after his death his words still ring true

Nothing ever really changes.

[Deja Q]

2. Ah, yes - sung about love and peace... and beat the shit out of his wife.

Yeah, a real genius.

:eyes:



Oh:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=john+lennon+the+life+wife+beat&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=KxYPMM6r3XA

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=john+lennon+the+life+handicapped&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=KxYPMM6r3XA

The man was a PIG. "Do as I say and not as I do." Works on both sides...



And now, having discussed abstinence and saving it for the right person, I'm going to go into an orgy tonight. (NOT!)

[unblock]

3. but the words he wrote were so much better:

you better run for your life if you can, little girl/
hide your head in the sand, little girl/
catch you with another man/
that's the end, little girl





oh, wait. maybe that wasn't a good example....

[mdmc]

4. He rules

wife beating (?) aside

[anonymous171]

5. He also was obscenely rich. nt

[readmoreoften]

7. And your problems with Einstein and Orwell are.....?

*crickets*

Or maybe you do have problems with them.

[Ishoutandscream2]

28. Yes, John was an enigma.

And he certainly was no saint.

[spanone]

35. you have proof the man beat his wife? those links are weak at best.

[walldude]

50. John admitted it, he also said how shitty it was and what an asshole he was

and how he was trying to improve himself. Frankly while I usually enjoy DejaQ's posts he's so far off the mark on this one it's not even funny. All John was was human. Just like the rest of us he had his flaws, but he was also one of the greatest musicians who ever lived and the amount of joy he added to this world can never be calculated. To hold him in the level of contempt that some people do tells you more about their character than his.


BTW just listen to the song "Getting Better" John will tell you himself:

"I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her and kept her apart
from the things that she loved

Man It was mean but I'm changing my scene
and I'm doing the best that I can"

[Lorax7844]

55. exactly walldude

[lunamagica]

6. I don't know if he was a wife beater, but

He was very much part of the "Upper Class". Lived a life of luxury, in the Dakota building where only "beautiful people" were allowed to live. His condo included a refrigerated room for his and Yoko's fur coats.

The building was designed with hallways and corridors for the servants, so they wouldn't bother the rich with their presence.

One thing for sure, he and Yoko were masterful in selling an image that had nothing to do with their lifestyle.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Of course, the world at large thought the world's biggest rock star

was a poor man and they just fooled 'em. What a crock. During the entire Dakota years, John did not sell any image at all, he in fact hid from the world. Previous to that, they were perhaps the most public celebrities of all time, and made no attempt to appear anything but wealthy, for he was a rich man. And everybody knew that.
His 'condo' as you call it, was in fact two entire floors of the Dakota. How terrible. How awful. Lauren Bacall lived there too. That vile bag of classism. She should have lived at the Chelsea, at best!

[omega minimo]

14. what's your interest in pissing on Lennon's grave?

:evilfrown:

[spanone]

32. they were masterful at living and selling an image of peace and love....that's one thing for sure.

[maryf]

9. Wondering here...

If a message is truthful does is matter who says it? If a message is truthful does it matter if the person saying it does not exemplify that truth absolutely?

[tomreedtoon]

10. I'd say if a person is a hypocrite, his message is flawed.

I don't know about Lennon beating his wife. I do know that the Beatles were more famous for their success than any genuine social change. (Charitable contributions to charities run by rich people are a scam, and don't provide much help to anybody.) And Yoko Ono has been milking her ex's reputation for so long that she should be a soap opera villainess.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

12. What about the ideas being expressed

Can you comment upon the idea presented?

Just for a moment close your eyes and pretend the author is anonymous. What do you think about the concepts articulated and can you cogently express a response which either disagrees or agrees with the message of the OP?

[omega minimo]

18. You shouldn't have to beg. Where is this notion of Lennon as villain coming from?

:wow: Is this a "thing" now, some bizarre rumors about him to tarnish his aura?

[tomreedtoon]

19. Closing your eyes means your eyes are closed.

I've heard wonderful words from TV evangelists, too. In principle they're saying all the right things. In fact, they betray their faith, their words and their God by what they do. And if you've heard the titans of industry talk about talent and hard work being rewarded, as they fire Americans and outsource their jobs to India, the real meaning of their words hits hard.

[omega minimo]

22. If you're that interested in integrity, you might open your eyes and read some books on Lennon

to unpoison your mind.

[tomreedtoon]

39. I don't care about Lennon, only about intellectual honesty.

Did you think this was about Lennon? It's about hypocrisy. And Lennon, even if he was a hypocrite, which I don't know or care about, isn't even the most interesting case. I was arguing for an approach to life, when someone who promotes ideals doesn't live up to them in his personal life.

[omega minimo]

40. What's going on in this thread isn't intellectual or honest.

[Hannah Bell]

27. you might not be aware of it, but lennon did indeed put quite a bit of money into

grassroots radicalism - funding the panthers & (reputedly) the ira, for example.

one of the theories about his assassination has to do with this.


he wasn't a limousine liberal.

[spanone]

37. charities by the rich are all scams? could you provide some truth for this statement?

[Hannah Bell]

53. Lennon's "charities" weren't tax deductible. You don't get those for sending money to the

Black Panthers or Irish Republican army.

[omega minimo]

15. I'm wondering where people get off criticizing Lennon and his life and what he "exemplified"

speaking of hypocrites, what a bunch of fucking ingrate losers, never did anything NEAR what he achieved in 40 years.

keyboard cannibals. :puke:

[spanone]

this has deteriorated into one of the saddest posts i've seen on du

[omega minimo]

41. so much disinformation, so little time ................

who can keep up?


Well it's proof of why they assassinated him.

[NashVegas]

11. Lennon Was An Asshole, But Then, Happy Well-Adjusted People Are More Innoculated to the World's ....

Harshness, and tend not to notice it.

[truedelphi]

13. That is a very good point.

Until you experience some aspect of unfairness, you cannot really lead on any real level that combining poitical and spiritual strength.

Would Ghandi have become a great political leader if he could have passed for white in his South African days? Before the moment when he was first treated as an "untouchable," he didn't really think about the untouchables. He accepted that designation of a class of people in society until it applied to HIM.

[omega minimo]

17. truedelphi, are you agreeing the JL was "an asshole"?

or that he had not done: "until experience some aspect of unfairness, you cannot really lead on any real level that combining political and spiritual strength."

I read the previous post not as much in terms of a wake up call of empathy, but a comment on how oblivious happy "normal" people can be. The artist, the sensitive, may not suffer the slings and arrows in the same mode. May even create art out of it.

[truedelphi]

36. I didn't even have that subject in mind when commenting.

Since you ask for my comments on that:

I think that John was a deeply troubled soul who had suffered again and again as a fatherless child back in the fifties, when most families must have appeared far better off than him and his aunt. His mom was missing; his dad was missing. As a young adult, his mother and he re-connected, and she was killed by a drunk driver shortly after that connection was made.

JL brought us some great music. For me, the notion that one must compose music, do concerts, sell records and lead a new generation of young people to religious, social and political nirvana seems like a rather overwhelming task for that musical soul.

I think one of the main reasons why We Boomers didn't end up with some more authentic political revival back in the seventies is that times were easy. I bought a four bedroom condo while goofing around most days with my young son, working maybe thirty hours a week as a housecleaner!! (The whole point of that job was I could bring him to work with me.) The job market was good, especially for techie types. Anyone who knew how to operate or program a computer was able to make some serious dough. Jobs in the computer field were easy to obtain, with employers bidding you up if you ahd talents so they couldahve their facility full of workers. By the time my son was in grade school, I held data entry jobs where no one made less than $ 13 to $ 14 an hour.

Those were gravy days. I think if people in their twenties and thirties during the Carter era had KNOWN that there would two Reagan adminstrations, and the wars with Iraq, and the two terms with George W - why, maybe we would have pushed the bong away long enough to do some serious orgainzing. But like Marianne Faithful used to croon "We thought it would never end."

[omega minimo]

16. This thread is full of them. Unbefuckinglievable.

:thumbsdown:

[NashVegas]

29. This May Come As a Shock To You ...

But you don't get to decide what everyone will think or say about John Lennon, or any other of your heroes.

[omega minimo]

42. That's fine. I'm just amazed at how ignorant people are with their "opinions"

[baldguy]

21. If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

And those that venture to do this are usually called assholes.

[omega minimo]

23. Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole

Thank you for a lucid post. :applause:

[baldguy]

24. There's a story about Picasso in Paris during the Occupation.

A German officer came into his studio and saw a few post cards with pictures of his paintings on them laying on his desk. The officer picked up one with Guernica on it and demanded "Did you do this?". Picasso looked at him and replied "No, you did".

[omega minimo]

25. ****gasp*****

"ghhhhahhh" Dunno how to type the sound I just made. OMG. I've never heard that. THANK YOU for sharing that. Whoa.

Powerful.

Yeah, no wonder you "get" Lennon. Is the disregard for him shown on this thread a thing now? I don't mean folks should worship, but at least know who and wtf they're talking about.........





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYAcX9hA_ak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2sRRA2Lv00&NR=1

[maryf]

26. Amen nt

[prayin4rain]

30. Haha I love that song :) n/t

[NashVegas]

31. John Cale, Jonathan Richman, or Burning Sensations

That is the question.

[prayin4rain]

34. Haha I only know the middle guy's version :)

I love John Cale though... I'll have to look it up. I don't know Burning Sensations... better look that up too ;) Who knew there were so many versions? Oh wait, you did... well done. :toast:

[NashVegas]

47. Burning Sensations Version Was in 'Repo Man'

And is on YouTube, too.

[omega minimo]

43. The original and IGGY!! At link.

[NashVegas]

46. Didn't Know Iggy Was a Leftie

How cool.

[spanone]

33. and how many times did you meet mr. lennon to come to this conclusion?

[omega minimo]

44. Well he said that thing about Jesus... and that whole BAG thing, wtf was that about?

:shovesfingerupnose:

[NashVegas]

49. Ever Hear This?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7-iHrOPoA

Original transcripts:

http://mog.com/fairportfan/blog/31422

[omega minimo]

51. "Genius is pain."

[omega minimo]

20. Too late to REC your excellent OP

Thank you for posting it.

Very thoughtful, thought provoking. Simple.

I have been thinking a lot about Lennon with all the recent reminiscing about the decades......

[earth mom]

38. Great OP. People can't attack the message so they attack the messenger.

Typical DU bullshit and denial because it makes the Obama administration look bad.

People are their own worst enemies. :eyes:

[omega minimo]

45. damn hippie Reccer positive affirmation spreader crap!!!!!!!!!!11

Looks like the campaign against John Lennon's legacy has been in full sway since he was killed by a "lone gunman."

[Echo In Light]

48. There's room at the top they're telling you still. But first you must learn how to smile as you kill

...if you want to be like the folks on The hill."

Working Class Hero

[cbdo2007]

52. Interesting that the guy complaining about things not changing in Britain...left Britain.

Maybe he could have stayed there and helped make a bit of a difference instead of taking his plight and his millions in tax dollars to the U.S.

[H2O Man]

54. clown