The war on cigarettes/tobacco

[Jack Sprat]

Throughout the lives of millions of smokers, there have been daily trials to endure. Non-smokers, too, I concede. Life can be awfully stressful, now moreso than ever. Yet, a simple draw off a good cigarette can occasionally offer some respite of pleasure in an otherwise unpleasant world. Tobacco is as American as you can get. Rich, fertile farms in North Carolina and Kentucky have yielded some of the finest tobacco and marijuana found most anywhere. Tobacco is addictive to be sure. It is also unhealthy to be sure. Nevertheless, those of us who enjoy smoking also enjoy the freedom to choose our recreational habits. We realize that longevity is often measured in good health and safety. Yet, we also have seen friends and relatives who have managed to live into their 90s and beyond on occasion. Here is our conclusion. WE DON'T WANT TO BE HELPED ON AND OFF THE STOOL IN SOME THIRD RATE NURSING HOME AFTER A LIFETIME OF DEPRIVING OURSELVES OF A SMOKE! How much fun do you non-smokers plan on us all having as a bunch of geriatric old healthnuts listening to other patients yell down the hall because their brains have gone bye-bye and their joints are wracked in a constant arthritic hell of sorts? Some fun, huh?

We smokers have also noted that many of you non-smokers are fat and overweight while we remain trim. Since you and your legislative pals want to tax our tobacco, maybe it might serve the community's health better to TAX SOME OF THAT EXCESS FAT AROUND YOUR WAISTS!

Ladies and gentlemen smokers: I apologize for the rude prohibitionists on DU and wish you a charmed smoke on your patio right now if possible. We choose to go to the moon and smoke and do the other things because we're free...and we can.

[Forkboy]

1. This should be good.

[Occulus]

113. I should point out

We're funding programs we need on the back of smokers via rising tobacco taxes.

If we want people to eventually stop using tobacco, funding deeply desirable programs on the taxes generated by tobacco sales seems to me to be a counterproductive decision.

Were we serious about eliminating tobacco use, we would have directed all those tax dollars into programs designed to reduce and eliminate tobacco use. We're funding other things with that money, though, so tobacco use is here to stay because a) people are addicted to the substance itself and b) because public agencies are addicted to the extra tax dollars generated by the sales of the substance.

I really wish there were a substance I could smoke instead of cigarettes that would also reduce my alcohol consumption, but that's beside the point.

Sadly, we'll never set up a massive public nicotine elimination program. Too many public agencies are just as addicted to the tobacco-generated tax dollars for that to happen without a change in the tobacco sale and distribution tax regulations.

[RagAss]

2. Thank You. I too want to see a Fat Ass tax in this country !

[bbinacan]

4. All you have to do

is a census of every Wal-Mart in this country to get an accurate account of the fat asses.

[RagAss]

6. LOL !

[bbinacan]

3. AMEN!

:smoke: :toast: :toast: :toast: :beer:

[The Straight Story]

5. Puritans abound sadly (nt)

[billyoc]

7. Amen, tax the fatasses.

:woohoo:

[NYC_SKP]

8. But what if I'm a smoker AND I'm fat???

Just shoot me...

[rfranklin]

9. Right on! Since I am thin and gave up smoking, I say...

Tax away!

[pipi_k]

10. Life is a crapshoot

It's true that some smokers can live well into their 80s or 90s while their nonsmoking peers drop dead at 52.

I'm a former smoker (quit 13 years ago next month) who can understand the lure of a good cigarette at the right moment. Hell...any moment is a good moment... but I also know that quitting has saved me lots of money that I've used to buy some pretty neat stuff. Stuff that lasts longer than the time it takes to smoke a pack...a carton...a whole rack full of cigarettes. And I prefer not to stink and wheeze, but that's just me... ;)

People are free to kill themselves any way they want to, I guess. I'm not going to moralize over cigarettes though. I know from experience how hard it is to quit. If I were to smoke one right now, I'd be right back in the habit again.

[MoonRiver]

11. You have no right to poison my lungs because of your addiction!

Smoke all you want in the privacy of your home. Do not do it where I will inhale the crap you, NOT ME, chose to ingest.

[bbinacan]

14. Oh good God

you inhale more noxious shit on any street corner in the US. So get off your fucking high horse.

[MoonRiver]

17. No, I WON'T get off my fucking high horse, POLLUTER. EOM

[bbinacan]

18. Second hand smoke studies

are bullshit. :smoke:

[MoonRiver]

19. Yeah, every idiot believes that.

Thanks for affirming same. :eyes:

[bbinacan]

26. The study

did not exclude tomato consumption, which is are part of the nightshade family. So is tobacco.

[bbinacan]

58. Do you eat tomatoes

potatoes, green peppers, etc.? You do know that they can contribute to a loss of bone density and spur arthritis?

[Hannah Bell]

129. um, no, most idiots believe second-hand smoke studies are the gospel truth.

[Mimosa]

169. That's the truth!

My med prof friend has told me of several lung cancer cases he's treated which are youngish people who did not smoke and didn't have smoking parents.

Native Americans used to smoke clean organic tobacco with no harm to their health. I've known old guys who smoked pipes in moderation who did not have repiratory problems and lived long lives.

Anything we humans beings do in excess can be harmful, including eating food and drinking alcohol. Because some people couldn't handle moderate consumption of alcohol it was once completely prohibited.

We also see how successful the drug war has been.

Education is the answer, not prohibition.

[RagAss]

21. Amen...just a lawyers dream is all.

:smoke:

[Odin2005]

98. Your post is bullshit.

[bbinacan]

178. Feel better now?

:smoke:

[azurnoir]

20. Then stay in pure privacy of your own home

or get your greedy fingers out of my wallet can't have it both ways which is what you wa

[MoonRiver]

22. In the cities I work and live in, smoking is BANNED inside.

When I see you addicts puffing on your poison, I will cross the street to avoid your pollution. That's as much as I give on this issue. Society is backing ME, a non-smoker, not YOU, the addict/polluter. GET OVER IT.

[RagAss]

24. If second hand smoke was as bad as they say...the entire baby boom generation

would be dead ! Our parents smoked everywhere. The car, the house...everywhere but church !

[gizmo1979]

50. Ah there's the rub

Do we know what our parents,and us have sown?I have COPD a lung disease that is life changing.I smoked for many years,but how much of the damage was done by my father and uncles?My daughter has asthma is that my fault?We do not know.One thing that I do know,is I wished I had never smoked a cigarette in my life.You can only imagine how useful your lungs are to everything you do on a daily basis.I know and everyday it gets a tad worse and everyday you remember how stupid you are for doing it to yourself.

[Hannah Bell]

130. good point. even in grocery stores & theaters for a time.

which people today find unimaginable.

[Individualist]

162. Correct

[bbinacan]

28. Poor baby

:cry:

[MoonRiver]

30. I got the law on my side.

How do you cope?

[azurnoir]

33. Quite easily much more than you n/t

[MoonRiver]

34. I don't have to inhale your crap!

Me be hoppy, hoppy! :bounce:

[bbinacan]

35. By ignoring it. n/t

[azurnoir]

31. Get over your self or get out of my wallet it is that simple

and please do cross the street

ps the "society" you so back is insurance companies the real reason for the bans

ps do you drink?

[MoonRiver]

36. Your wallet?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Taitertots]

127. I think I'll keep taxing your addiction

Just because they are insurance companies doesn't make them wrong.

I'll gladly side with the insurance companies over the tobacco lobby. Which one sold you poison and intentionally hid the dangers from you?

[Hannah Bell]

132. you think "your" taxes hurt tobacco corps? check their profits.

[Taitertots]

141. Specious reasoning

Obviously their not making the money isn't benefiting them.

Is "hurting" them the point? I thought it was to shift the tax burden from me to the drug addicts.

[Hannah Bell]

142. you said:

"Which one sold you poison and intentionally hid the dangers from you?"

so i figured you wanted to hurt tobaccocorps rather than help them.

[Taitertots]

144. I would rather hurt then help them

But that isn't the point. The point is that the poster trusts the tobacco companies over the insurance companies, despite the fact that they sold poison and lied about its harm when they knew it.

[Hannah Bell]

146. there's no evidence the poster "trusts" tobacco corps.

[Taitertots]

147. Obviously trusts them enough to use their products

despite their history of selling them poison and lying about the harm it causes.

Obviously trusts them more than the insurance companies that they claim are the real reason for the bans.

[Hannah Bell]

150. then you must "trust" exxon, GE, Monsanto, Freeport Moran - despite their history of lies & worse -

cause odds are, you use their products.

[Taitertots]

151. No, I definitely don't trust them, and I avoid their products when possible

Of course their products when used as directed are not going to poison me. So I tend be more serious about products that have no redeeming quality, like tobacco.

[Hannah Bell]

152. you can't avoid their products, or the products of those like them. their products, even

when used as directed, poison you & others.

& tobacco has numerous redeeming qualities.

at any rate, the central point, that use of a product doesn't indicate "trust" or "support" of the producer, is made.

[Taitertots]

157. I'd like to hear the redeeming qualities of tobacco

You feel a little better for a tiny period of time. If you want that with all the damage it causes you I'm fine with that. You just can't do it around me, and you are going to get taxed for it.


The use of a product to some extent does indicate some degree of support for the action of the producer. Vote with your dollars. There is always a choice, even if you are unwilling to make it.

[Hannah Bell]

131. insurance cos, gov't, & the tobacco monopoly. tobacco is easy to grow., but

the threat of lawsuits & is a barrier to new competition. profits have risen, not declined, since all the anti-smoking stuff went into effect. & everytime new taxes are imposed, the makers raise prices just a tad more & increase profits even though they lose some customers.

it's a gov't-abetted racket.

[inna]

57. OY.

:crazy:

[Hannah Bell]

128. you're alive? then you pollute.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Way To Make The OP's Point!

You do realize that you're comment is exactly what the OP was talking about, don't you? Well, probably not.
GAC

[MoonRiver]

38. I admit I am a prohibitionist against public poisoning of others through tobacco smoking.

Happy?

[Greyhound]

56. When has prohibition ever worked?

Oh yeah, never.

It does create huge black markets that funnel billions of dollars into the hands of the worst elements of a society. It does make this scum so powerful that they run several national governments.

And you believe that the sanctity of your lungs trumps the rest of civilization...
:eyes:

[MoonRiver]

60. It's working now.

And that's because poison polluters aren't allowed to kill the rest of us because they are addicts. Life is good.

[Greyhound]

84. No, it isn't. It's just not where you are and that's the point.

You are working to the detriment of us all so that your personal sensibilities are not offended.

People have lost their livelihoods and their businesses because your freedom of choice was not enough for you. You insist on forcing your will onto others, but I'll bet you are one of the loudest criers when someone else forces their will on you.

[ProfessorGAC]

145. I Was Already Happy. Your Reply Makes No Sense

Not that i should be surprised that your post carries no intellectual heft.
GAC

[dysfunctional press]

40. by that logic- shouldn't all the internal combustion engines be banned as well?

they put out MUCH MORE and MUCH MORE LETHAL compounds than any smoker does. why are they okay, and cigarettes aren't?

[wuushew]

42. The air quality coming out of tailpipes has made very big gains thanks to regulation

presumably the future scarcity of hydrocarbons will see a transportation infrastructure composed of primarily clean electric vehicles.

The car has evolved a hell of a lot more than the cigarette in a 100 years. Do they sell those those smokeless e-cigarettes widely yet? That seems like an interesting development.

[dysfunctional press]

45. that doesn't change the issue.

what's coming out of the tailpipes of even the most modern internal combustion vehicle is A LOT worse on the human lungs than any of the second-hand smoke being inhaled along side them.

[wuushew]

47. Yes and I am saying that canard will be extinct within the lifetimes of many on DU

Even hybrids can run on batteries for short trips. Are you really saying that my neighbor lighting up is less onerous than the emissions from a coal plant 30 miles away. What is your method for conducting a health impact?

[dysfunctional press]

54. "Are you really saying that my neighbor lighting up is less onerous than the emissions..."

"...from a coal plant 30 miles away"

definitely.

if you think otherwise- then you aren't really thinking.
just like the politicians in both parties like it.

[LanternWaste]

179. Cost/benefit analysis...

Cost/benefit analysis. When and if we can drive a cigarette to work, you'll have a valid point. Until then...

[KoKo]

41. Then make it ILLEGAL!

[Jack Sprat]

44. You are exaggerating

as all prohibitionists tend to do. You have a crusade. All crusaders ultimately want to deprive others of some pleasure for the main purpose of taking joy from the lives of others. That's all the first prohibition circus around alcohol was about. Prohibitionists have some sick perversion towards pleasure.

[Odin2005]

97. +1

[johnaries]

123. Don't worry, I intend to stay as far away form you as possible.

With that kind of attitude you're obviously someone a lot of people should avoid.

[abumbyanyothername]

12. At this point

it should be possible to ascertain with a fairly high degree of certainty to figure out the number of lung cancer and other health issues tied to the use of cigarettes. The costs can then be distributed across each individual cigarette and cigarettes can be priced accordingly.

btw -- the same should be true of Big Macs, Corvettes, handguns and every other item sold in commerce.

It's just not that hard, and we should internalize the societal costs of all products to those products. Then the people who choose to use those products can pay those costs.

[Sal Minella]

13. Ladies and Gentlemen:

I apologize that DU has posters who are shills paid by Big Tobacco.
That is all.

[bbinacan]

15. I think you forgot

the sarcasm smiley.

[Jack Sprat]

52. That is desperate.

If that were the case, then everyone who smokes and isn't ashamed of it would also be labeled a shill. Am I right? By your logic, I could as easily label you as shill for nursing home owners or old age homes or even the healthcare industry. It is in those most senior years when healthcare costs soar because the physical body is beginning to deteriate. Extending average lifespans another 15-20 years will actually result in more healthcare being rendered necessary per person than ever before.

[Hannah Bell]

133. big tobacco loves anti-smoking legislation. it plumps their profits & keeps small tobacco

out of their faces.

[Mimosa]

16. Smoking saves more money than it costs

Jack Sprat, my best friend is a medical prof who's interested in the benefits and economics of smoking. We've discussed this for years and he sometimes has sent me info about research studies which support that nicotine is actually more beneficial than harmful. I'm interested since I'm Native American.

As far as cigarettes go, the toxicity in them comes from additives to the tobacco as well as chemicals in the paper wrappers. Pure tobacco leaves such as in handrolled cigars is not toxic when smoked in moderation. I've smoked a cigar now and then for 20 years or more. No addiction at all and I've gone for many months without enjoying a cigar.

Tobacco in the form of cigarettes may be an addictive habit. I don't know since I've never smoked cigarettes. I find the tobacco in them is crappy and acrid.

My mother smoked about 2 packs of cigarettes daily for the last two or three decades of her life. She developed emphysema and lung cancer. She died (age 72) about 4 months after being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. I wouldn't wish to deprive anybody of the pleasure smoking. I object to smoking being made into a puritanical 'moral' issue. We're all going to die of something.

Jack, I haven't smoked a cigar in two weeks. I'm going to go on the patio and light up in your honour.

[Jack Sprat]

39. Thank you for the kind words.

Your outlook is probably the most moderate and well measured. I am glad that we have sensible people such as yourself.

[alarimer]

73. Maybe they should be more toxic, to lighten the insurance rolls a little.

That way I do not have to pay higher rates to insure people who voluntarily kill themselves by smoking.

[Flaneur]

75. Good thing you're not going to ever get sick and die.

I suspect you may be more of a burden to society than the early mortality smoker. Are you going to linger on for 20 years with a variety of aging diseases at our expense? Do tell.

[RagAss]

87. Wishing death on people is not cool. Bad Karma. And....

On to my ignore list !

[Jack Sprat]

122. I'm sure the insurance companies will give us a break

when they are changing your bedpan and diapers when you hit geriatric dreamland. It's going to cost some big bucks to keep your drool from causing wet slicks on the nursing home linoleum. You may end up lasting a heap of years with that clean respiration. You say you plan to hit 98 in another 2 decades? Someone get the Depends ready.

[Mimosa]

177. The stats actually support smokers save the SS system money!

I wish my med profeesor pal posted here. He would post links to many studies which prove that smokers cost Medicare and medicaid LESS MONEY as Jack Sprat posted.

I perceive an odd religification about smoking. I don't like cigarette smoking. I hate the way they smell. But I also think there is a weird puritanical animosity towards tobacco which isn't applied towards crack cocain or methamphetamimes.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

172. "medical prof who's interested in the benefits and economics of smoking"

Your best friend is a fucking idiot - as far as medical professionals go.

How long did your mother enjoy the pleasures of emphysema? Although it sounds like the lung cancer did her a favor and gave her a fairly quick end...... if you can call 4 months quick. My mom lasted a year. I'm currently dealing with my otherwise healthy father in law who can't make it up a flight of stairs due to emphysema.

[BR_Parkway]

23. I always think it's funny the anti-smokers still drive their cars

[abumbyanyothername]

46. Not all of 'em.

Proud to be a walker/biker/bus guy.

[Hannah Bell]

134. you ride busses. because they're emission-less.

[Tikki]

25. Pressures from restrictions and laws passed in my State...

of California definitely helped me quit smoking 5 years ago....something I really wanted to do..

Thank you Californians for helping me. I went to Nevada and I didn't even
want to smoke there, either.

Tikki

[Warpy]

27. Smoke? I don't give a rip if you burst into flame

but have the courtesy to do it outdoors where it doesn't set off my asthma.

Thank you.

[Forkboy]

32. I think smokers are suicidal but are too scared to do it quickly.

They should find speedier ways.

:hide:

[Flaneur]

76. Really? You would like to see smokers kill themselves?

Charming bit of humanity you are.

[Forkboy]

78. I'd like to see a lot of people kill themselves, and it bums me out that so many are slacking off.

We have guns, knives, bombs, death by cop, heavy traffic...and what do you smokers do...light up a butt that takes forever to kill you. You smokers have no gumption. When I was your age we smoked fifty packs a day, uphill.

[prolesunited]

37. My fat doesn't make you physically sick

Since I have asthma, your smoke does.

Your right to freedom ends at my right to breathe. And no, I'm not exaggerating. I literally have an asthma attack when I'm trapped in a smoke-filled room.

If I have an extra roll or two (which I don't, BTW) how does that harm your health?

[bbinacan]

53. So don't go

into smoke-filled rooms.

[Fumesucker]

43. Let me know when they give you long hard time in the pen for a carton of cigarettes..

Until then, the "war" on cigarettes/tobacco is so much hyperbole.

I'm a lifelong non smoker who doesn't particularly care if people smoke around me, even indoors, as long as they are reasonably considerate about where they let their smoke waft and what they do with the detritus of their coffin nails.

But just because the places you can smoke tobacco is limited doesn't mean that anyone is waging a "war" on you.

[Taitertots]

48. The war on Tobacco LOL

If you want to smell like shit, waste money, and die young then that is fine. However you are going to have to take your poison outside and pay taxes on it.

[Boojatta]

51. "We choose to go to the moon and smoke"

New legislation will outlaw smoking on the moon. Sorry, but you'll have to do all of your smoking on Earth in future.

[inna]

55. what's with all the unreccers having a field day here?? nt

[solstice]

59. Oh boo hoo hoo, what a fucking martyr. No other addicts are whiny like nicotine addicts are.

And you all stink like ashtrays.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted sub-thread

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[BreweryYardRat]

71. Ahem. You're a juvenile fool.

I smoke amaretto-flavored pipe tobacco. I've gotten quite a few compliments (actual compliments, not sarcasm) on how good it smells. Tastes delicious, too.

Cigarettes do smell unpleasant, but claiming all smokers smell like cigarette ash just adds to the ignorance and childish tone present throughout your post.

[alarimer]

74. For decades you could not escape it.

And now that most people have come to their senses, they do nothing but whine about how oppressed they are. And they do positively reek. It is utterly disgusting to be around smokers.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

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[Forkboy]

91. How heavy is that cross you're lugging around?

[Jack Sprat]

96. say what you mean, boy.

got no time for you otherwise.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

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[Forkboy]

115. Was the truth too much for you, Jack?

[Jack Sprat]

143. Here's some truth for you, boy.

Your first post in this thread went like this: "This should be good". It seems you were excited. From there your conversational skills deteriated badly. You were reduced to profane comments to express yourself. You should probably go back to smoking again.

[Forkboy]

153. Here's some truth for you, too, little one.

Your OP was some of the most unadulterated arrogant bullshit you could have posted minus actual lessons on being a clown. Your conversational skills never even got off the ground, and made Kitty Hawk look like a trip to Pluto and back. You see, it seems like you were excited as well, excited about being an arrogant yobbo with all the wit, charm, and likability of an Alsatian after a head swap operation. You should probably keep smoking, as I can't imagine how insufferable you'd be if you quit.

And say hi to Jesus while you're up on that cross, boy. :hi:

[Taitertots]

110. When was it acceptable?

Oh yes. It was before we knew they killed people. At least while the tobacco corporations still hid it from everyone. Before we knew even second hand smoke would kill people.


Now that we know your smoking is hurting us we want you to stop. How dare people expect to be safe from the dangers caused by idiots inhaling poison. We must be psychotic sadists for not wanting you to hurt us. If you want to smell like shit, waste money and die young you can, just stand outside so it doesn't kill the people who value their lives.

[Jack Sprat]

120. Are you intending to wilt and die old

like so many of you seem to want to do? Do you want to smell your dying flesh or smell your bed sores? You know something....when it comes to stench and putrid flesh, I would prefer the smell of tobacco smoke myself. That's just me.

Smokers are already giving you puritans all the space you could want. I won't even go around non-smokers anymore. They are too stiff and stuffy for me.

[Taitertots]

124. I'm not sure how I'm going to die, but I'm not in a hurry to pick a way

What makes you think a smoking related illness death is going to be any better? You get to stink like shit while you are alive, then stink even worse when you are dying. Even if the smoking doesn't kill you, you will still have to stink while you die of natural causes.

Smokers are not giving us anything. We had to fight to get you to kill yourselves outside instead of taking us out with you. We had to fight to get your pushers to admit your poison kills us by being around it.


If you don't care enough about the people you associate not to poison them, then we are better off without you. You must not care about the people around you much if you won't forgo taking your drugs to hang out with them, especially since you know it is hurting them.

[Jack Sprat]

137. That's absurd. Who does the whining?

Cigarette smokers have continued doing what they have always done. The whiners are obviously the ones who whine about us doing what we have always done.

[Forkboy]

155. Read your own OP. The first line about the trials you endure is a whine, boy.

:rofl:

For the record, little one, I actually have no problem with people smoking, around me or otherwise. Your OP was just a load of self-indulgent whiny ass crap dressed up in cuter language than a normal post of self-indulgent whiny ass crap. You asked for the truth then when you got it you ran to the mods like a little Republican baby.

It's a passive aggressive pity party with you as the ringleader. Head chump in charge! A man with a plan!

Git.

[Jack Sprat]

140. How can we verify how you smell?

You may very well smell like dirty laundry. I told you before that the only whiners I see are the puritan prohibitionists like yourself. You are the obvious one seeking martyrdom. It's my belief that a slight majority of us on DU are smokers.

I told you that before but you had it deleted without cause.

[Mari333]

61. I stopped smoking 3 months ago and Im a vegan and Im skinny

so tax anyone you want. I , of course, dont want to see anything taxed, not tobacco, alcohol, or food.
Tax the top 1 percent of the wealthy in this country first.
THEY are the real fatcats.
leave the poor people alone.

[Budgies Revenge]

62. The problem

is that you will not stop people from smoking if they want to--it's just not going to happen, anymore than you can stop someone from smoking marijuana, or could stop someone from drinking liquor during prohibition.

We've gone smoke free in clubs, bars, and restaurants here in Athens--which is great for the "pro-ban" crowd. The unintended consequence is that smokers now crowd around entrances and awnings--which means non-smokers have to run a gauntlet to get into a place. Both of our local hospitals have made their entire campus smoke free (meaning they closed the designated "smoking areas"). What this has done is move the smokers to neighboring businesses and areas where they, unfortunately, choose to litter or break the law by smoking in the bus stop shelter. This has led some to call for a total outdoor smoking ban in Athens.

At some point, I think you have to ask yourself if this question couldn't have been settled by allowing some places to be designated as "smoking clubs" and others "non-smoking clubs", and just allowing for designated smoking areas on the property of hospitals or colleges. At that point, the smokers would be contained in their own little area, or club--away from all who find it offensive, most--or at least more--of the litter would be contained because smoking areas would have proper receptacles--and everybody could be left to their own devices. The other question that must be asked is how much time do you want police officers to spend busting smokers, as opposed to doing something else.

[DainBramaged]

65. Fat tax, it affects the poor as much as sin taxes do (er would)

Every seen a real overweight rich person? I haven't.

[marketcrazy1]

66. having a smoke and a good laugh

reading this thread!! thanks Jack!! LOL! this stuff is priceless!

[Jack Sprat]

68. I do what I can, market.

It all counts for twenty as they used to say.

[Jack Sprat]

67. Now wait a second

Who started these sin taxes? It wasn't us smokers. Place the blame where it belongs.

Of course, I have seen rich overweight people. Ever see the Rushmeister? And you don't think poor people are having to pay these excess sin taxes? I saw a poor guy going off in the local Winn Dixie 2 nights ago. You hooked them on narcotics in Nam and the Mideast wars. Now, you're going to have them spending 6 or 7 dollars a pack for what they could buy for 3 bucks a pack a year ago.

[Ikonoklast]

80. Yes.

And, he smokes.

[DainBramaged]

81. he is not fat he is Jabba the Rush

[Jack Sprat]

85. Maybe so, but the point that was made

was in rebuttal to the assertion that rich people were not fat.

[Fumesucker]

156. Rush Limbaugh fits the definition of "overweight" and "rich" pretty fucking well..

/Captain Obvious

[DainBramaged]

173. I do not 'know' him at "fucking" all.

[Kansas Wyatt]

69. And whoever came up with the idea to BAN smoking in bars...

Is a fucking idiot! Who in the Hell expects to go into a bar and not be around smoke? Moron health nuts who brag about doing everything healthy, and still drop dead of a heart attack or stroke before they reach retirement.

A funny observation about banning smoking in bars: Instead of a crowded bar, now they have crowded patios set aside for smokers, and only very few people left inside the bar itself. Hmm... Why are all the health nuts on the patio mingling with all the smokers, since they have smoke-free bar now and all the smoke is so hazardous to their health?

[Jack Sprat]

89. They are boring, that's why. They gravitate to

the smokers because those are the people who live life and enjoy it. Smokers have a general good temperament and are socially envied by those who wish they could allow themselves to indulge again. Another thing I have found is that smokers often times exercise more frequently than non-smokers. I regularly walk, jog, or run because I know I need to stay fit.

[Forkboy]

92. LOL...who says satire is dead?

[Odin2005]

102. I cannot enter bars where people are smoking, the smell makes me sick.

I would not be able to to the bar and have a few drinks with friends were it not for the local smoking ban. What about the rights of us people that can't tolerate tobacco smoke, huh buddy? You selfish jerk. :grr:

[Kansas Wyatt]

149. Bars have ALWAYS smelled smokey.

Yet you demand that everyone CONFORM to YOUR standards. Huh buddy? Who's the SELFISH jerk?

Go to a smoke free bar or open your own, and leave everyone else alone.

[Odin2005]

158. Kind of hard when THERE ARE NONE IN TOWN.

That's part of the lie of anti-regulation laissez faire Capitalism. Non-smoking bars in a city that allows public smoking are at an economic disadvantage as long as the "bars are for smoking in" mindset exists.

[EndersDame]

165. I am a smoker but believe in the bans. Non smoking employees deserve a healthy workplace

[alarimer]

72. They should be banned.

They exist for no other reason than to get people hooked so they can slowly die of cancer.

Tobacco companies deliberately made them more addictive so that they would have customers for life (or death as the case may be).

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RagAss]

79. What?

[Ikonoklast]

82. Spam.

Promoting some crappy book he wrote.

[workinclasszero]

86. Sigh...Junkie Talk...

Sure you are free to commit suicide, which is exactly what you are doing every time you light up a cancer stick. You are free to foul the air. You are free to stink like a dirty ashtray, I can smell a smoker a mile away.

I hope you enjoy the hell out of your freedom when you give yourself the gift of emphysema. See how free you are tethered to an oxygen bottle 24/7. Yeah you will be as free as the wind when you can't even cross your living room, gasping for each and every breath 24/7 like a drowning man.

And then as the cancer takes over and destroys your body, watch your spouse and children weep and moan because their loved one decided they really didn't matter. A filthy cigarette was more important to you then they were.

More important than life itself!

When your drug of choice is more important than friends, family and life itself you are a stone junkie.

My Dad died at age 68, smoked 30 plus years. Emphysema destroyed his life for a hellish 5 years or so then stomach cancer finished him off. My Mother died at age 66, brain cancer. She did quit smoking in her 40's but damage had been done I guess.

And me, I smoked for 20 idiot years. Now I've been sober so to speak for 20 thank God. I was nicotine dope addict. At least I was under no illusions of freedom while enslaved to tobacco. And I might pay for my 20 idiot years in the end too.

But hey, knock yourself out man, you are free to do whatever the hell you want to. I'm sure the children weeping at your grave will appreciate that.

[Jack Sprat]

93. Feel better now?

[RagAss]

88. Good Post Jack...thanks...this thread is like fly paper for my ignore list !

[Jack Sprat]

94. Glad to hear it.

Is that a promise?

[RagAss]

175. I was serious...I'm a smoker and don't need the hate thrown at me.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

90. Jesus! After all that vitriol, I need a smoke.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

103. I encourage you to smoke more and faster.

[Odin2005]

104. DUpe

[Jack Sprat]

106. Mine don't either.

There are times when I have had people walk into my smoke with deliberation. They could have avoided it.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack Sprat]

107. Hardly my problem. Look at what you've just

posted. You called me an asshole when we were engaged in polite conversation. This is getting to be habitual with you non smokers. Are all of you this ill-tempered?

[Odin2005]

109. I get ill-tempered when you smokers dismiss my issues with second-hand smoke.

smoking in bars, for example, prevents me from going into those bars because of my sensitivity to smoke. and thus you are being selfish for wanting to smoke indoors even though it would prevent people with sensitivities to tobacco smoke from being in the space.

[Jack Sprat]

114. Unless the bars have been designated as

allowing smoking, then smoking is not permitted. If such a bar or saloon is open specifically to permit smoking, then what would be your purpose for being there? To cause problems for the business or smoking patrons? To cry about the thick smoke?

[Odin2005]

117. There weren't any non-smoking bars in town before the ban.

[Forkboy]

111. Such a poor, persecuted martyr for the smoking cause.

[Hannah Bell]

139. you made jack's point rather well, i think.

[Forkboy]

154. Coming from you I'm going to assume I did right then, as the only point Jack had was on his head.

[Hannah Bell]

135. because the entire world should be designed specifically for you.

[Odin2005]

159. I expect to be able to BREATH when I go out for a drink with friends.

Is that too much to ask for? :eyes:

[Rebubula]

167. How...

....do you get home from a night out drinking with friends? Is there always a Designated Driver or is someone driving buzzed or drunk?

You see what I did there?

[Odin2005]

174. Yes, there is a designated driver.

[Cetacea]

100. Sometimes I fake smoking to see if people will start coughing

and someone does every time.

Banning smoking and protecting your beautiful bodies from second hand smoke will not increase your life span by even a minute. Driving a car or just being outdoors in most locations will harm your lungs, though.

Amazing how easy it is to stop individual smokers but not corporate planet destroyers.

[Jack Sprat]

116. Very true. Go jogging or walking anywhere

near heavy traffic or a nearby freeway and you will get more smoke in your lungs than the smoke you might have gotten in the Waffle House when it allowed smoking.

[Hello_Kitty]

119. How do you fake smoking? eom

[Hannah Bell]

136. aren't they funny? i've noticed that fake coughing too. you can be in the park 50 feet

away, with the wind blowing in the opposite direction, & still get it. plus the evil glare.

if only some percentage of that hostility was directed at something that mattered.

[TexasObserver]

108. It's good to see everyone in this thread is being reasonable.

I smoked cigarettes for 30 years, during the era when we smoked in meetings, in our offices, in restaurants, in bars, on commercial airplanes, and just about anywhere we damn well pleased. Even then, I didn't think it was cool to smoke around people who didn't care for smoking. But now days, there are smoking prohibitionists who go too far.

I don't care for smokers who smoke where they shouldn't, and I don't care for non smokers who use any smoking anywhere nearby as their excuse to launch into one of their phony coughing fits and start preaching the gospel of no smoking. The extremes in both camps deserve each other.

I haven't smoked in years, and can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke any more. I don't want to have to run the gauntlet of smokers when I walk into or out of a building, and am glad smoking is no longer a part of being in a restaurant. Don't care about bars, as I don't go into bars. Don't hang out in places where people like to smoke, or even at homes where people like to smoke.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em is fine by me, as long as they do it where the smoke isn't bothering others.

[Jack Sprat]

112. Reasonable response and appreciated.

Smokers have been put through so many changes and have accepted them with admirable goodness. To think that many of us began smoking when it was very socially acceptable. I recall one pastor of a church who smoked openly in the 60s. Ashtrays were kept in homes for guests. Most all offices and buildings were open for smoking. Yet, to hear some of these people talk, you would think all of those people were criminals. The President smokes, for gosh sakes. I guess they would call him names and bait him to get tombstoned.

[TexasObserver]

148. Steve Martin had a great stand up routine in the 1970s about it.

It was back when people could smoke all over commercial airplanes. Steve said any time a smoker on a plane said "do you mind if I smoke?" he would reply "No, do you mind if I fart? (laugh) After a good meal, I really get the urge to light one up!" (bigger laugh)

When I first started trying cases in the 1970s, we had judges who would smoke during trials. I can remember taking depositions where everyone in the room, including the court reporter, was smoking. It was like the presentation in Mad Men, where nearly everyone smoked nearly everywhere.

[Ron Green]

118. It's certainly an issue of public health, and even one of slavery

masquerading as freedom. My observation is that people who can least afford it are often addicted to cigarettes for a number of reasons, not the least of which is their jobs (if they have one) are so mind-numbing that a smoke break is actually a high point of the day. The inverse relationship between smoking and socioeconomic status, with Big Tobacco as the beneficiary, is a clear indicator of a society seriously out of balance.

One other point regarding alcohol comparisons: While it's quite possible, even common, to drink in a healthy way, there's really no way to smoke thusly.

[Jack Sprat]

121. Some cigar and pipe smokers

don't inhale the smoke and might differ with you over doing self-harm. But people have a legitimate right to smoke a plant unless we've decided to go loco.

Without going on and on beating a dead horse, car exhausts are constantly inhaled by commuters whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

[Ron Green]

163. I think the death numbers for tobacco in the US are about 400,000,

which is considerably ahead of what we'd expect from environmental and other respiratory deaths. I agree that people ought to be allowed to "smoke a plant," but in practice what we see with cigarette habits has very little to do with gathering herbs from the earth and more to do with corporate-sponsored addiction through propaganda and chemical formulation.

[Hannah Bell]

138. When tobacco was first commodified, the association between it & income ran the other way -

the rich smoked more.

The tilt to low incomes came post war.

[Ron Green]

164. Good point. Also, it's likely that, as people have become more alienated,

the act of smoking as a social habit has been replaced by solo puffing. I remember fancy cigarette boxes on coffee tables, containing nice unfiltered smokes that would be offered and enjoyed after a meal. If that wasn't your social group, there was usually a smoke break in the middle of the morning out in the field or on the work site, again as a communal activity. It's a very different situation to see someone standing alone behind the back entrance of a building sucking on a butt, or driving in a car with the window cracked open to let out some smoke.

[LWolf]

168. I have a friend, a nurse, who's roommate got laid off 6 months ago.

He can't find work. She's supporting him. Suggested that I hire him to do all of the labor I can't get to around my place; there is a ton of it. I said I couldn't afford it; she said, "He'll do a day's work for some gas money and some cigarettes."

[noamnety]

125. I wish smokers would direct half their efforts at their real enemy

which is tobacco corporations deliberately adding chemicals to their product to make people addicted, and lying about the health risks so people couldn't make their own informed decisions before becoming addicted.

Nonsmokers are pissing off the smokers at times, yes, and vice versa, as we try to negotiate boundaries for a habit that people enjoy but harms those around them. But let's get real, nonsmokers are not the ones profiting off killing you with a product they lied about, and laughing about it to the bank.

Maybe a small amount of smoker's activism should be focused on consumer's rights and having as safe and chemical-free a product as possible given the circumstances.

[Jack Sprat]

126. Smokers mean no harm to non-smokers.

The last thing smokers want is to do harm to someone else. The thing that concerns all of us that smoke is that non-smokers seem to be wound so tight. Non-smokers seem to be aggressive and short-fused. Although non-smokers maintain they respect health, I have concluded during the course of my conversation with them that non-smokers are 7.8 times more likely to kill someone with a loaded firearm as a smoker would. The non-smoker would be 9 times more likely to kill someone with a non-loaded firearm which had to be loaded. Non-smokers exhibit traits of cannabalism and necrophilia. They are also prone to psychotic rages and gnawing their own flesh.

Now that this study has been concluded, I urge all participants to stop smoking at once. I intend to do so myself. Here is why. Because inwardly the non-smokers don't want us to quit. They want us to die before them, which is reason enough to try to outlive them. Then we can say, "See, we outlived you anyway and we didn't even hurt a fly." Then, we can shake our canes at their coffins and mount up on our scooters from the Scooter Store.

[noamnety]

161. The corporations want to harm smokers

by adding poisons to cigarettes and misrepresenting that.

And the smokers respond to it by defending them vigorously, or ignoring that issue entirely (as your response to my post about corporations demonstrates nicely).

[walldude]

166. Yeah well there are a number of chemical free and organic smokes on the market

and many smokers are switching to those brands. Shame of it is they are much more expensive.

[RagAss]

176. Organic smokes. You don't die of cancer, you die of boredom !

[raccoon]

160. Unrec'd. nt

[Mimosa]

170. What does NT mean?

I often see nt in posts here. What does it mean?

[NoSheep]

171. It is an indication that there is no further text below the subject line. nt