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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:55 PM
Original message
Racism, or something else?
Recently a little bit of a controversy has arisen on my street. For the past several months, as the weather has gotten more hospitable, we've had a group of young people (mostly young AA men) hanging out on the street in front of my house and the vacant house next door. In the evening it's a bit of a perpetual party, with people coming and going and visiting the neighbors and what not. My biggest complaint, believe it or not, has been about litter and parking spaces. As long as they don't use my yard as a place to throw their garbage and don't take up ALL the parking on the street, I don't mind all that much.

Well, recently one of the neighbors (none of the nearby ones, mind you) has gotten a bug up her butt about this all being gang and/or drug related. (Some drug dealing may actually be occurring, but my guess is it's probably pot and it's fairly low-key). Other than a few shouting matches every few months, it hasn't been that much of a problem. If they're being too noisy too late for the neighborhood, one of the matrons of the neighborhood usually sticks a head out her door and yells "Shut the FUCK up" and they all settle down.

Now we have this woman, apparently in charge of the local Safe Streets deal, whose gone all rabid about it. The funny thing is that my wife attended the meeting they had the other night and realized that this woman seemed to assume that all whites were on her side and all the African-Americans were against her. My wife stood up in support of the kids (they're kids to us) and, later, it was observed by one of them that she's "not afraid of us, are you?"

She's not, though it's clear that a couple of the neighbors ARE intimidated, particularly on nights when there's a whole lot of them. My wife told them if she didn't like something, she'd come out and tell them.

Well, yesterday this same woman came by delivering "action packets" or some such nonsense, telling us how to "set up a phone tree" and all of that, as well as suggesting that a few of the AA neighbors were somehow "involved" with this group of "hoodlums." Ironic, when you consider that I know that if these guys are out there, no one is going to be messing with my car, or those of my closest neighbors. Interesting, considering that they treat my wife and I with nothing but respect, and now go out of their way to make sure we have parking in front of our house. Hardly the actions of hoodlums.

We're talking about a group of young males with nowhere else to be, kids that often still live with family and who are chased out of their homes and, apparently, out of the city parks as well. Of course, most parks close at dusk. So where is it these kids are supposed to go? When I was their age my friends and I used to hang out a lot at Denny's, or a similar all-night restaurant, drinking coffee and socializing. What do you want to bet that they're not offered the same opportunity, even if they were interested.

Do I think racism is involved? Oh, yeah. Near as I can tell the worst things they've been guilty of is littering. That's all I've observed first-hand, though I've certainly smelled the fragrance of cannabis sativa or indica at times.

Better that than drinking and driving.

My wife also stated quite clearly that if they don't drive a reasonable speed on the street, she WOULD be calling the cops. But just for them being there? Not on board with that at all.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Racism is part of it... But there's still be problems if they were whites. The big thing here is age
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 08:04 PM by Chulanowa
A lot of people make some pretty big assumptions when they see young men hanging out somewhere. If they're a different color than the locals, that adds to it, but more likely, ANY bunch of young guys would be "hoodlums" from he perspective of the Safe Streets chick. After all, all we do is fight, fuck, and drink, don't you know.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's hilltop Tacoma
The trouble is actually coming, from what we can tell, from the white minority in the area, who have convinced the cops that it's a "Big problem."

The speeding and littering is, but the rest? Hardly.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Does any of the information from the Safe Streets lady have a specific cop to contact?
If so, I'd call the cop and discuss the other side of the issue with him. If not, call and find out who would be in charge of the responding cops in case of a call. Tell them that you and your wife have found the group of young people to be respectful, etc. and ask that if they have given a 'heads up' to the patrolling officers for the area, to share that bit of information also.

That could go a long way to defuse any future situation. If the young men are thought to be "trouble makers" based on the complaints of the Safe Streets side, the police will tend to be more antagonistic than if they know that at least some of the local residents have found them to be reasonable and polite to decent treatment. And be sure the police know that you are the people who live closest to where the young people are gathering, unlike the other woman, so you would have a much better idea of what is actually happening.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Apparently there is an e-mail address
they recommend we use for the police liaison for the area. So I'll take it that direction next.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Unrec? Really? Based on what?
Was it the mention of racism?
Drugs?
Speeding or littering?


Huh.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. apparently, there are some strange interpersonal dynamics at play here.

:crazy:

anyway, i rec'd and that seemed to bring the score back to 0 (who knows for how long...) :shrug:
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I voted printer friendly but what does this
have to do with alcoholics anonymous?
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. That one got me too...
After a while I realized she meant African-American.

Unfortunate use of initials in this case.

:shrug:
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You really thought they were having a rally of young Anonymous Alcoholics on a street corner?
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 10:28 PM by bertman
:rofl:
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I'm a real dipshit when it comes to all
the initials I had to read a bit before I caught on.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Talk to her about it.
Go to the Safe Streets lady, and ask her what she thinks the issue is, and tell her what your experience as, as you live RIGHT THERE.

On her part, it might be racism, it might be an older person uncomfortable with younger people (get off of my lawn!) and it could involve a culture gap. or something else. A dialogue might clear up a lot of things.

You have a voice in this neighborhood, and there is no reason these young people should be penalized for doing nothing.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The wife already tried that...
Didn't go well.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Party!
Belushi knew.

When things get tough, the tough PARTY!

I'd start organizing some kind of block party, with everyone participating, bringing food, putting together some kind of games, or gimmicks, like a fortune-teller, just a whole lot of silly stuff. See what you can get donated, and see what people can contribute, not just money, but time and effort.

Something. Anything. When people work together, they learn not to be afraid. Sounds like everyone in your 'hood needs to be humanized, and getting them all together in a common effort is a wonderful first step.

Maybe it won't work, but it can't hurt. Can it?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I understand there's a big one planned the weekend of the 2nd... n/t
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I like your attitude :-)
interact and welcome everyone and laugh together
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I have an idea that Ms. Safety Patrol might turn out to be the Buzz Kill of the night.
She wants law 'n order, not socializin'.

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Carl Skan Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Is all of the above an option?
...
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. There is something similar going on in a Baltimore neighborhood.
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 09:41 PM by Wizard777
There is group of citizens that claim to be fighting crime in the neighborhood. They have their neighborhood watch type program. They've brought in the Guardian Angels. A local news station has done a story on them. They are using the internet. They're posting pictures of drug dealers on a site called Pigtown's Most Wanted. (Pigtown gets it name from being the pig slaughtering and marketing district of Baltimore way back when.) They have a few pieces on Youtube.

I think there is some racism involved in this too. Pigtown was all white. Now it's a mixed neighborhood. In going over the materials on the internet and the news story I noticed a stark racial contrast. All the pictures of drug dealers and other criminals were black. In the news Story all the people appearing on camera from the neighborhood association and Guardian Angels were white. They were following one black teen around giving him a hard time and filming him. His mother came out irate. Why are you following my son around? You better leave him alone. I don't blame her one bit. Not all racist form militias. Many simply form neighborhood associations. I'm also not saying all neighborhood associations are racist. But some indeed are. I can remember after segregation was overturned and some blacks started to try to move into white neighborhoods. The racist whites formed neighborhood associations trying to keep them out. They even circulated petitions. They even burnt crosses in the yard of the property they bought. Those were just ugly ugly ugly times. These days I think racism is more low key and veiled.

This could just be a bad PR move on their behalf. They should have shown more a racial diversity in the neighborhood group and guardian angels. Had black members out patrolling with them. But they can't show the members they don't have.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I was joking with a friend that I feel safe in my neighborhood
because here RW Republicans would stick out like a sore thumb. I know I feel safe here. So does my wife. I trust people who believe in minding their own business and staying out of trouble more than I trust people who don't.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Ah yes the good old days of property rights.
If someone was rude enough to say they didn't like the color of your house and it's an eye sore. Everyone in the neighborhood would have told them. Then quit looking at it dumb ass! Now you have a say in what goes on with every house in the neighborhood except your own. In case you haven't noticed. When it comes to home owners associations. I'm not prejudice. Despise them all equally.
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. fear
I go into strange neighborhoods almost everyday for my job. Often there are groups of young men 'hanging out' and my technique is to find someway to engage them; with a quick questions, directions or some bit of information that I need.
You seem to be doing the right thing in respecting that these young men may have limited options and also by setting quidelines (maybe even provide a trash container for them) Some people will never understand that communication and respect are the best beginnings to healthy communities
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Has Mrs Kravitz bothered to *talk* to the kids' parents about her concerns?
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