Which person being gay would more greatly influence your general opinion of gay people

[dsc]

Seeing a thread about gay actors being encouraged to remain closeted made me wonder about this. As someone who isn't straight, I can't honestly answer that.

[dsc]

1. I am really getting sick and tired of cowards who unrecommend a post

literally seconds after it is posted, and can't even own up to it. This crap is exactly why so many of us think unrecommend is such a crappy idea.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Except that not many do think that.

[Mojorabbit]

101. I don't like it

and I don't think I am the only one. I will however, get used to it.

[QC]

8. One of DU's most nasty and persistent homophobes just got ts'ed for unreccing

every gay thread she encountered.

I won't name her, but apparently Sue was addicted to a certain American musical genre that often emphasizes improvisation.

[dsc]

12. I had wondered who that person was when I read about the tombstoning

was mentioned in our forum.

[QC]

14. It should have happened years ago. n/t

[Clintonista2]

34. Who is it?

can you pm me?

[JI7]

41. who was tombstoned ?

[billyoc]

13. I just unrecc'd it due to whining.

[Skittles]

82. it kills me there are so MANY cowards on DU

[ThomWV]

97. What is cowardly about unrecommending a thread that you consider tripe?

I unrecommend lots of threads, if I consider them to be little more than tripe or if they misinform.

[Skittles]

103. that's one thing

unrec because you simply disagree is another and that is being used a LOT

[whistler162]

98. then you might want to create a post with substance instead of

drivel!

[frogcycle]

3. you need a 'none of the above'

My "opinion of gay people" has nothing to do with whether this or that person is gay. I don't HAVE an "opinion of gay people" any more than I have an "opinion of music." Some I like; some I don't.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Yah - bizarre question.

[dsc]

9. So all this stuff about coming out is just non sense?

Gay right stragies for literally decades (at least since Harvey Milk) has been predicated upon the notion that coming out influences the opinion that society holds of gay folk. Is it really your opinion that we have had it wrong for all that time?

[BlooInBloo]

11. I have no idea what you just said, but without a 'none of the above' option...

I can't answer the question.

[dsc]

15. gee I didn't know you couldn't read

sorry about that.

[BlooInBloo]

16. (shrug) That's one possible explanation of the problem.

[uppityperson]

33. I think the problem is that you are preaching to the choir here

Most of us are beyond that. Do you mean "Which person being gay would more greatly influence the general public's opinion of gay people"?

[Danmel]

100. I would have to say no one

Because really, who cares?

[cwydro]

94. Staying in the closet implies that there is something WRONG

with being gay.

I think that is what makes the most impact on straight people. Why hide it?

I can't imagine that one individual being gay or not would make a difference to a person's opinion of gays in general.

edit typo

[uppityperson]

32. exactly, OP is a rather odd question. nt

[Hydra]

5. How about "Yourself"?

Most people don't really get it until it happens to them. As sympathetic as I am to the LBGT community, I'm not in the same boat, even though I've been accused of being gay frequently in the past.

[givemebackmycountry]

6. None of the above...

Ok...
Harvey Firestien.
He ain't gay is he?

If your cool with me, I'm cool with you.
I'm rather simple that way.

[marmar]

7. Interesting question....I've never really had a negative view of gays and lesbians....

.... Hell, I never even laughed along with the abundant gay jokes in high school.

But it took a close personal friend in college - and watching as he carried out this exhaustive double life (his parents were ultraconservative Christians who'd moved to Michigan from W Virginia) - to really "get it" and to see how difficult a heterosexist, homophobic society makes life for our LGBT brothers and sisters.

[canetoad]

10. The Pope.

[csziggy]

19. Yeah, if the Pope came out as gay, it would probably give me a negative attitude towards some gays

Though I haven't previously. :think:

Frankly, I can't think of anyone who could come out it would make a difference to me. Most gays I've known I liked, a very few I did not and my dislike was not based on their sexual preference but on their obnoxious personalities.

[Ohio Joe]

17. For me, it is my brother

A paramedic, 9/11 first responder, the most beloved uncle in my family, paid for his own education, a wicked sense of humor, a brother that was always there, really... a remarkable man altogether. He has also been open (open outside of the family, we all knew) about his sexuality since right after high school.

[Budgies Revenge]

18. I've noticed

family members and friends that I'm "out" to, seem to be more generally accepting of gay people/issues/causes than those I'm closeted to--and some of these accepting people are hardcore fundies in every other respect--I guess it's a "Cheney Syndrome" sort of thing for them.

[burning rain]

88. "Cheney Syndrome"... I like that.

It is remarkable how the Cheneys are rightwing shitbags across the board -- except for gay rights. Oh what a coincidence that they have a gay daughter. Perhaps Pat Buchanan would be more mellow on race if he'd had a kid, and that kid had married a black. And maybe any of these chickenhawks would've given up on the warmongering if they'd had a kid who died in a needless war. I don't have a lot of use for people so lacking in empathy that they need an immediate family member's experience to "get it."

[badgerpup]

20. I was 'influenced' long and long ago...

A guy I loved dearly finally got the nerve to come out to me. Thirty years later I still count him as one of my best and dearest friends...and yeah, I still love him.

A friend who was an absolute HOOT to hang out with came out to me...not only was he gay, but he was one HELL of a female impersonator as well.
Damn, I wish I could even dream of looking that drop-dead gorgeous one day...
And did we ever have fun the nights we 'girls' went out on the town...:evilgrin:

It was too late for any "But 'they' are ....." propaganda for me by then.
I'd already met 'them'...and 'they' were only people. Rather nice people, for the most part...just like 'us'.

[Stevenmarc]

21. My next boyfriend

[Prophet 451]

22. Never has made any difference to me

Now, on a personal level, I'm bisexual so that probably mitigates against it mattering but it's never made the slightest difference to me, my faith has no issue with gay people or gay marriage. Just one many variety of human.

[jberryhill]

23. None of the above

I guess I don't understand why I would or should form an opinion about any class of people based upon one person.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. I don't think the OP is claiming that you should or would

but it is very obvious that the heterosexual community has all kinds of negative thinking about entire classes of people based on nothing at all. If this were not true, we'd have rights equal to those of straight people.

[jberryhill]

65. The "heterosexual community"...

Hmm... I'll have to think about that. There are vast numbers of heterosexuals with which I don't "commune" very well, and quite a few non-heterosexuals with which I do.

I suppose I could say that having a childhood hero named "Muhammad Ali" made it not-so-strange for that child - i.e. me - to vote for a man named "Barack Hussein Obama" decades later, but maybe not.

One of the criticisms with "leading members of group X" is the notion that all African Americans were raised in Bill Cosby's Huckstable family.

I dunno.

If I had to guess at the motivations of some straight people's opposition to marriage equality, I suppose they might look at it as if men were seeking "equality" by demanding the same right as women to have abortions. It's something of an odd definitional problem for them, as in "Well of course men can't have abortions."

[Chulanowa]

24. A really odd question.

Someone who hates gay people isn't going to have their view changed by someone coming out. They'll either put that one person into the "I hate them" category, or create a special exception.

Similarly if you have no problems at all with gay people, someone coming out of the closet isn't going to make you more accepting, and it's hightly unlikely to make you LESS accepting.

[arcos]

91. Not so, especially with young people...

I came out to one of my best friends about 11 years ago. She was pretty homophobic at the time, and suddenly she realized that not only me, but about half of her best friends were gay. That totally changed her point of view, and her mother's point of view too.

[rhett o rick]

25. Sorry but I resent the implication of this post. That I could be influenced because a gay person is

someone important.

[Autumn]

26. I picked none of the above.

It just seemed right.I can't picture anyone who would influence my opinion of anyone. I have straight friends and gay friends. I don't see any difference in them.

[tnlefty]

27. I had to go with none of the above...

I have yet to be able to understand why the Constitution and The Bill of Rights sets up a two tiered society. My thinking is that absent the religious right, there would be no argument.

I did have to ask a lesbian acquaintance if I was incorrect in explaining to my young children, "I can't understand being gay anymore than a gay person can understand why I'm heterosexual, we're all human and we should have the same rights." She hugged me and stated that I had most of it correct.

I'm trying really hard here, and if I'm missing something, please educate me. Thanks in advance.

[dmallind]

28. Well none really BUT one group would make me reconsider the issue per se

I don't have an opinion of gay people as a group any more than I do people over 6'3". I know some gay people who are obnoxious, even loathsome, and some who are wonderful human beings I could not hope to equal. No person or type of person being gay is going to change that.

That said though I will change my opinion of the place of gays within society when religious fundamentalists are comfortable stepping out of the closet in large percentage. It still won't reflect on gays as a group of course, but it will reflect on how gays function in society in general, and how society functions vis à vis gays.

[pinto]

29. Me.

I mean, we tend to see the world through our own eyes. That said, I don't have a "general opinion" of gays. Even though I'm gay. I'd guess it's the same for most people. My straight friends and family don't seem to have a "general opinion" of gays, either. And I don't have a "general opinion" of straights.

So I'm not much good on this one.

[JI7]

30. isn't this kind of bigoted ?

there are gays i like and some i don't like just like with heteros . if i don't like some hetero my opinion of that person is not going to change based on some other hetero and the same applies to gays.

i'm not sure if you are trying to prove some point or show double standard with his question and poll.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Bigoted is what the straight community does with law

and baseball bats to oppress gay folks. Amusing is watching all the straight folks pretend they can not see why anyone would ever need to have this discussion. Hilarious Ivory towerism.
Enjoy your equality. Don't lift a finger for ours. That is what is bigoted.

[JI7]

40. it assumes the problem is gay people rather than hetero bigots

that the bigots would change only if there was some gay who was "acceptable".

[QC]

42. If you want to attack some genuine bigotry, check out post #37.

It merits an instant tombstone, but we know better than to expect that.

[JI7]

47. i alerted on that one, it should be tombstoned for that post

[QC]

49. I'm not alerting--I want people to get a good look at it.

In fact, I have made a screenshot of it, so I can't be accused of imagining the whole thing.

[JI7]

50. the alert is for the tombstone, i don't think offensive posts

should always be deleted either though since people should be able to point out some of the stuff people post. and this one doesn't seem to be some low post freeper troll either since it has managed to get thousands of posts and been on here since 2005.

[QC]

51. I think that when offensive posts are deleted, the poster's name should remain in place.

That way everyone can have a good sense of who is just making trouble and who is actually here to engage in reasonably civilized discussions.

But the post is gone by now, so if any of us refer to it or something like it, we won't be able to produce the evidence, thus leading to accusations of being "too sensitive" and the like.

[JI7]

52. sometimes you can tell by the responses that what was said was offensive

i will keep the poster's name in mind to check back later and see if they have been tombstoned.

[QC]

53. I just checked--he's still a member of ths site. n/t

[QC]

58. And still a member, 50 minutes after posting that hateful shit. n/t

[krispos42]

79. "...we know better than to expect that"...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=171720

[QC]

80. Thank you! I am very happy to be wrong about this one and extend

my sincerest apologies!

[krispos42]

84. I didn't pull the trigger...

...but I strongly encouraged the person that did so to do so.

:hi:

[Starry Messenger]

83. Thank you krispos42!

That is very heartening.

[krispos42]

85. See my post above...

But I'm glad it was taken care of quickly.

[Prism]

86. Very sincere thanks n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

44. No it is talking about crap like goes on in this thread

Hate. From the heterosexual community. Which clearly needs some form of learning moment, which y'all are not willing or able to provide for your own.

[JI7]

46. sometimes a bigot is just a bigot, you think the guy with the Nambla post on this thread

is some poor misunderstood type that just needs to be taught and he will change his ways ?

or as you say, is it just a hateful bigot that should be called out on such ?

[Bluenorthwest]

54. I think something is clearly lacking in the heterosexual community

and thinking that perhaps a role model example might help the stunted minds that your own community has failed to raise up or bring to heel. What your community has done has failed and we have paid the price for far too long.
I've seen Phelp's crowd at dozens of events, uncontested by any heterosexual group, or individual. They speak for you for you do not speak for yourselves.
There are obvious problems, and we are tired of them. Why don't you deal with it, fix your community and rid of us the hate that radiates from so many of your straight brothers and sisters? YOu know how, you know best, so serve it up, feel free, go for it.
That poster is not my concern, it is the 'good ones' who refuse to take a stand and leave us without equality. We are without equality because of straight people. The ones who let the bigots write their names for them.

[JI7]

56. and that is the point of my post, are you even reading what i'm saying ?

i put the blame on bigoted heteros . you are the one who seems to be making excuses for them.

[CLANG]

31. None of the above

I'm not sure if I know all that many "gay people", but those that I do know are judged the same way as any other human being. Labeling people doesn't enter into the equation for me, and I am very frustrated that I seem to be in the minority.

[Blasphemer]

36. I'm in the "none of the above group"

I'm one of the perhaps two or three people in my family who are not homophobic. It's led to quite a bit of head shaking and eye rolling when dealing with their antiquated and misguided thinking. Having an opinion on a person based on their sexual orientation is pretty much unfathomable to me. I figured out the inanity of the anti-gay sentiment in this country by the time I was 10 years old. I actually have not had any close relationships with anyone gay - just acquaintances and those with which I've had a professional relationship - because I don't get very close to people in general. I guess for some people, knowing someone who is gay or finding out that someone they respect is gay helps to change their attitudes. For me, it has always been a matter of right and wrong - tolerance versus discrimination.

As for celebrities, I think that some stay in the closet well beyond the point where it would impact their careers. Those are more bothersome to me than actors who are just starting out and have legitimate concerns about the effect on their careers.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aqaba]

38. My former employer

Back in college I had a summer job landscaping for a guy who just happened to be gay. Prior to that, I hadn't known any gays personally and as such I hadn't really formed an opinion. He was a stellar human being - nice, professional, extremely competent as an employer. He taught me more about plants in three months than most people learn in a lifetime. Heck I didn't even know he was gay (I had a suspicion) until I met his boyfriend, who was also a great guy. Of course, this doesn't mean all gay people are nice, I'm sure there are some asshole homosexuals, just like any other segment of the population.

If everyone could know a gay person like this, well, there would be a lot less hate, and the haters would be more ostracized.

Thank you Vince, if by some remote chance you read this.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

48. For some reason I'm reminded of a processed pork product that's popular in Hawaii

[Mojambo]

45. A currently active athlete might be the bravest

I'd like to see an MMA fighter come out.

[varelse]

55. None of the above

that's like asking which person having green eyes would greatly influence my opinion of all people with green eyes.

[Prism]

57. Are we allowed to complain about being called pedophiles?

Or did that person have a point that we need to explore for a couple hundred posts?

Just so I'm prepared.

[QC]

59. What are you talking about? There is nothing about pedophiles here.

Whooosh! That post is safely in the memory hole now.

[Lex]

60. along with my posts saying it would all be disappeared nice n' neat

like it never happened

[QC]

62. You must be imagining things.

Doubleplusungood.

[tbyg52]

105. War is peace! Freedom is slavery! Ignorance is bliss!

Uh, I mean "strength"...... ;->

7

[QC]

63. Guess who is still a member in good standing of DU? n/t

[Prism]

61. But this hole in my heart will not heal!

Disclaimer: Said hole in heart has been caused by an individual of presumably legal age. Previous holes in heart, where valid, are in accordance with all state and local laws determining age of consent and/or legal permission of guardian and/or parent.

[Iggo]

64. My opinion of gay people...

...is the same as my opinion about anyone else:

Some is cool. Some is dicks. 'Cause they're people. That's it.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. I don't give a care who's gay or not

so none of these would "influence" my "general opinion."

[QC]

68. I'm glad you don't think we are all members of NAMBLA.

Apparently that is now an acceptable opinion for members of this site to hold.

[Starry Messenger]

70. Oh QC.

You know there is a simple explanation for such a misunderstanding (complicated explanation ensues...).



:sarcasm:

[QC]

71. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue, you know.

And guess who is still a member of DU?

[Starry Messenger]

73. Well he was probably just being an asshole like he would be to anyone...

because you know, that's totally different from bigotry. It's just bad manners/he picked the first thing that came to mind/it's a first offense/anyone could have said that...

Did I miss any?

[QC]

75. Oh, you mean like those guys who yell "FAGGOT!" and "DYKE" at us, but

don't really mean nuthin' by it?

Like that?

[Starry Messenger]

81. Right, that's just bad manners!

Uncouth, old chap. Everyone knows only the lower classes would stoop to such vulgarity. People who can write in full sentences have an actual point of view that must be discussed.

[Blue_In_AK]

72. There are some real assholes here,

we all know that. You just have to be strong and know that the vast majority of people at DU find those kinds of comments offensive.

[QC]

74. I know, but the guy who posted it is still a member of DU.

Just imagine if he had posted something similarly racist or sexist--he would have been thrown out of here so fast the sonic boom would have been heard 'round the world.

But since he just called the LGBT members of our community childfuckers, hey, no biggie, nothing to get upset over.

[starroute]

67. I'd say all those things have already happened by now

I'm thinking back to when I first became aware of homosexuality as a kid in the 50's and the general assumption was that gays were somehow *different* -- all the old, tired stereotypes about limp-wristed men and butch women. I remember sitting in the dining hall in my college c. 1964 and participating in a discussion about whether there were any lesbians in the dorm -- and somebody reporting a rumor of there having been one six years earlier.

Yeah, things were pretty weird in those days, but that's just a sign of how closeted gay people still were. It had already started to change by the time I graduated in 1967, mainly because of the whole hippie thing, and it changed even more after Stonewall -- but it still took about 20 years for the assumptions to really shift.

I guess the biggest revelations for me as a straight person during the 70's and 80's were (1) that most gay people were absolutely ordinary and (2) that some really extraordinary historical figures had been gay and it had been directly related to their creativity.

I'm thinking specifically of Tchaikovsky and Wittgenstein as the two individuals where I would say that my finding out they'd been gay influenced my opinion of gay people. But that was maybe 25 years ago. I can't think of any revelations of that order since, and I can't imagine any that might occur in the future.


On edit: I've been trying to figure out how Tchaikovsky and Wittgenstein changed my opinion, and I think it was that I had previously thought of gay people as uniformly frivolous. Partly all those old Greenwich Village / Fire Island stereotypes from the 50's -- and partly I honestly assumed that not being locked into the whole family responsibility thing meant gay people were bound to be less serious. Come to think of it, the fact that the term "straight" at that time was used pretty interchangeably with the old beatnik term "square" to mean boring and unhip probably had a lot to do with it as well.

There were a lot of stereotypes floating around in liberal circles in those days that weren't exactly negative prejudices but were certainly pigeonholing and more than a bit condescending -- like the expectation that all blacks were automatically cool.

[Iggo]

69. Maybe this question was for younger people.

I know I started "forming my opinion of gay people" about 35 to 40 years ago.

The older I got, the more I realized they're just people like you and me.

In fact, I don't really even consider them "Them" anymore...and this conversation is now making me uncomfortable.

I'm out.

[TexasObserver]

76. Nothing gives a straight person a window into the gay experience like a family member.

Having a gay family member one is close to allows a unique view into the world that gays must experience. Families often split down the middle on such persons and their relationships. It's either acceptance and understanding or bigotry and resentment. One gets a full dose of that dividing line. Seeing the bigotry gay people face in their own families is enough bigotry of that sort to last a lifetime.

Learning to accept gay couples as gay couples is critical for straights, IMO. When one can think of a gay couple in the same way they think of straight couples, it's a real level of acceptance. My sister is in a long term relationship with her wife, and her wife is my sister in law in every sense of the word, and an Aunt to my children in every sense of the word. They were closeted for much of their professional lives, however, and only in recent years found the freedom to be out of the closet.

[QC]

78. Thank you for that very thoughtful and kind response.

A lot of the replies in this thread are strangely hostile to dsc, and I don't understand that.

[TexasObserver]

93. Thanks. As for the other thing you mention ...

... I have come to accept that a certain amount of contentious posting is merely a function of the chemical/emotional state of posters. To put it bluntly, I think some drunk posting goes on, and reason is seldom found in the inebriated.

[burning rain]

77. My opinion of gays, or any demographic, wouldn't change if....

I found that this or that prominent figure did or didn't belong to it. As I see it, we're all citizens of a great republic, and there's only one kind of citizenship: full and equal. I can see some appeal in anyone who's interesting and has a sense of humor. Neither do I feel any need to claim this or that person for one of my demographic groups and I consider the practice of claiming rather sad. That said, I'd find it pretty amazing if I learned that Bill Clinton was gay, as Ann Coulter has claimed.

[Spider Jerusalem]

87. Other: I see sexuality as neutral, and it's not something that affects my opinion of people.

[XemaSab]

89. There is no public figure that would influence my opinion

BUT I have to say that we are long overdue for an athlete in one of the "macho" sports such as football or basketball to come out. ("Macho" as opposed to sports such as swimming, gymnastics, golf, tennis, etc.)

[Touchdown]

90. Gay guy here. Poll not for me, but look at all the twisted panties in this thread!

:rofl:

[old mark]

92. None. My opinion doesn't mean shit to anyone, but I don't really have an

opinion on people's lives that includes whether they are gay or not. Pretty much their own business, IMO.


markO8)

[cali]

95. what an odd question.

I don't judge gay folks as a group, anymore than I judge anyone else as a group. people are people to me and I assess them as individuals. period.

[SmileyRose]

96. I've never had a "general opinion of gay people".

but even as individuals knowing someone is gay or straight or bi or neither or whatever has no bearing on my opinion of someone's value and character.

[shadowknows69]

99. I have no opinion of Gay people

Except maybe that I was watching one of my favorites, a wizard named Dumbledore, in a "Harry Potter" movie last night. I thought his magic was fabulous if that counts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

102. Negatively or positively?

Actually, I'm neutral on people's sexuality. But, the sword cuts both ways.

I have a number of friends/acquaintances who are gay. Some are great, some are assholes. Same as most people.

[LWolf]

104. Me?

I don't really have an opinion about gay people, one way or another, other than knowing that they are unfairly discriminated against.

I do strongly support equal rights for glbt brothers and sisters.

And there is a person who helped shape that part of my world view.

It wasn't any kind of public person. It was a close family friend; a friend of my mom's when I was a kid.

She was a lesbian, although I didn't know it. She was my straight mother's close friend. With no kids (or other family) of her own, she "adopted" me, became my "aunt," and used to pick me up and sweep me off for adventures, just the two of us. I loved her dearly.

My mom and I spent a lot of time with her at her apartment in Hollywood.
She always had the best xmas tree; we spent xmas eve with her every year.

She introduced me, when I was 7, to crab. Decided to have a "beach party" in her living room. She set, and decorated, her coffee table, gave me a recipe, and told me to make a dipping sauce for the crab. She got out the stuff I needed, then left me alone.

I was 7, and felt like the whole thing hinged on whether my sauce was any good. I read, and measured, and stirred, sooooo carefully. When she proclaimed it "perfect,"

She was an artist; she surrounded herself with beautiful things, and if they weren't beautiful to begin with, she made them that way. My mom and I still have many of her things; they've followed us through our lives, and kept part of her with us.

She committed suicide when I was 12 years old. She couldn't handle her "in the closet" life, was tired of pretending with men, and couldn't face coming out, either.

I didn't know her sexual orientation until then. My mom felt I was old enough; she'd already raised me to be open and accepting of other people. She just respected the woman's privacy and felt she'd come "out" to me when she was ready. I was brokenhearted. I've missed her terribly over the years of my life. I can't love her, and not stand for equal rights and acceptance for her, for you, and for the rest of the population.

I think that's the key. It's not public people. It's the people you know, the people you respect and care about, the people you love.