Has anyone heard about a $3 million project for a turtle culvert?

[mmonk]

[NYC_SKP]

1. No, but it sounds reasonable to me. Turtles were there before we were. n/t

[The Stranger]

2. Was that after some fuckwads built a road through the turtles' habitat?

And cars would speed by and smash them like the sound of a rapid fire machine gun?

I say spend the money on the culvert, or better yet move the road and the fuckwads out of there.

[lindisfarne]

4. Or perhaps an airport?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/09/turtles-close-down-runway-jfk


Seem to be quite popular
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/wildlifeprotection/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewArticle&articleID=99

[unapatriciated]

8. pretty much

Laugh if you will, but state transportation officials and wildlife researchers say a $3.4 million pair of tunnels under a busy North Florida highway is a serious safety project -- for people, too.

A hearty national guffaw began when Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., released a list of 100 items he called wasteful in President Obama's federal stimulus package. The Lake Jackson "eco-passage," a few miles north of Florida's capitol, caught national media attention.

But Kevin Thibault, assistant secretary for engineering and operations in the state Department of Transportation, said the "turtle tunnel" ridicule missed a couple of salient points. First, the money won't detract from interstate highways or airports, but will come from a small "enhancement" pot that is set aside for just such work.

And second, the twin tunnels under a four-lane stretch of U.S. 27 north of Tallahassee will be big enough for a deer to scamper through -- thus making the road a lot safer for motorists who don't want to hit one at 50 or 60 miles an hour. An alligator or turtle can be a highly hazardous speed bump in the dark, said DOT spokesman Dick Kane.

"The federal stimulus package that was passed by Congress funded a lot of transportation and safety projects," said Thibault.........

Jack Kostrzewa, planning manager for the Capital Regional Transportaiton Planning Agency, and Matt Aresco, director of the Nokuse Plantation wildlife preserve in Walton County, said U.S. 27 would never be built as it is if today's environmental standards were in place 50 years ago. Aresco said about 62 species need to cross the road in the forests around Lake Jackson.

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090621/BREAKINGNEWS/90620005/+3.4+million+turtle++eco-passage++designed+to+protect+animals+and+people

[mmonk]

16. Thanks, this is probably it.

[guitar man]

30. Sounds reasonable to me

As a biker, I can safely say that hitting a turtle at 70mph is no fun, it's a sure fire way for the rider and machine to end up in a bad way. They can be difficult to spot and avoid in the dark.

[angstlessk]

3. why? you got a turtle?

[mmonk]

7. No, my inlaws mentioned it today.

I was wondering where they got it from.

[sixstrings75]

28. Long Point, Ontario, Canada. Looking at putting one in...

There is 2.5 mile or so road, some call it a causeway, from the 'mainland' to Long Point, ON, Canada. Hundreds of turtles get run over every year. I think I heard somewehre that this was the solution they were going to try...Not sure on the cost either...

I only live a few miles from there.

[LLStarks]

5. It is a bit much to spend for the sake of turtles. nt

[imdjh]

12. These are Florida turtles. Everything in Florida is ten times the normal size and poisonous.

[unapatriciated]

17. It's not just turtles over 60 species cross at jackson lake florida, see my post up thread.

plus it is a safety issue for drivers.

[greguganus]

20. Shouldn't the turtle tunnels be too small for alligators...

...to use to keep them from living in them and eating the turtles?

[Donnachaidh]

23. do you know just how much turtle habitat is destroyed each year to build housing?

I live in an area that had quite a bit of natural box turtle habitat that was literally plowed under, so some yuppie could have a McMansion. There was no environmental impact studies done, nothing to take into account the boxies or any of the other wildlife that would be forced into the traffic, or into areas that didn't want these creatures. We've personally saved at least a dozen from becoming road pizza on heavily traveled roads.

Now quite a few of those areas have houses that are being foreclosed on, because of the housing slump. That land would have been better off left alone. But someone's greed got in the way.

[The Stranger]

32. Too many people on the planet.

Each one wants a house, endless energy, and food, and transportation, obliterating ecosystems.

Too many people on the planet.

[bertman]

6. The woman I know who is a turtle rehabilitator would approve. As do I, if it's a migratory

route or something of that nature. I'd rather spend it on turtle culverts than investigating something like Bill Clinton's penile activities. We could have built 33 turtle culverts for what that cost us. or maybe 17 Deluxe turtle culverts.

[underseasurveyor]

9. I have but don't remember where it was.

The controversy is how can anyone justify spending money on building a turtle tunnel under a highway in this economy. Google will probably bring up something.

My vote is for the turtles :-)

[unapatriciated]

14. It's not just turtles over 60 species cross at jackson lake florida, see my post up thread.

[MarthaM]

10. Maybe this?

I don't know anything about it; this just came up on google.

http://www.examiner.com/x-16781-Tallahassee-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m7d12-Government-waste-The-six-billion-dollar-turtle-tunnel

[FarCenter]

11. I thnk it is $6 million for this one

http://www.lakejacksonturtles.org/

[unapatriciated]

21. it is that one but it's 3.4 and necessary.

see article posted up thread.

[FarCenter]

22. It is 3.4 from the stimulus package, but there has/will be addtional money spent

I don't agree that it is necessary. Are cars sliding off the road?

[unapatriciated]

24. Just a lot of wildlife deaths but gee that's not important,

"It's a safety issue," said Kostrezewa. "We're trying to separate wildlife from the road."

That might require a spatula, for too many turtles. The North Florida Ecopassage Web site counted 2,070 turtle fatalities per year in the area, more than 20 times the second-highest location, Paynes Prarie near Gainesville.

Thibault said "there are a lot of these types of crossings" around the state, for black bears, the Florida Panther and other critters trying to coexist with the intrusion of traffic, housing and business into once-wilderness lands across the state.

"There's a lot of misinformation about it. It's not a turtle crossing, it's a wildlife passage," said Kostrezewa. "It's a safety issue in an environmentally sensitive area."

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090621/BREAKINGNEWS/90620005/+3.4+million+turtle++eco-passage++designed+to+protect+animals+and+people

[FarCenter]

29. So put up a chain link fence

The project calls for the replacement of the existing culvert, which doesn't appear to need replacing.

It adds a second culvert.

The new culverts are a more expensive concrete box culvert, instead of the existing steel culverts.

The picture I've seen of the proposed wall shows something that probably won't keep a deer off the highway. And it looks way more expensive than a chain link fence would.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. If getting across the road is vital to their lifecycle...

... or if enough of them are killed in attempting to cross the road to jeopardize the species, or if they pose a large traffic problem, then it probably makes sense.

Although I have to wonder if trapping them at point a and transporting them to point b would be a more cost effective (and job creative) solution.

[handmade34]

15. Yes

and I think it is a wonderful project

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

19. it's not just turtles, from what i recall...

and it's also a matter of safety for drivers- accidents have been caused by people trying to avoid large amphibians and reptiles, as well as people who can't avoid them.

[lexanman]

25. are you logged in?

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Yes, Florida wants to use $3.4 million to built it from the stimulus money.

http://a.abcnews.com/Business/Economy/story?id=8045022&page=1

For instance, the Florida Department of Transportation wants to spend $3.4 million in stimulus money for a turtle tunnel. That's right, $3.4 million to help turtles cross under a highway. Each year, 1,035 turtles are killed on a half-mile stretch of highway north of Tallahassee, according to The Lake Jackson Ecopassage Alliance, a group advocating for the tunnel. They are hoping to use the stimulus dough to save the turtles.

[saltpoint]

27. I'm for it.

I like turtles. The natural world predates us.

We're guests, at best.

[slackmaster]

31. I like turtles

:hi:

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. Now, how much will be spent for "turtle training"?

Does anyone here think that the turtles will just take it upon themselves to use these tunnels?

I wanna be a turtle trainer.

[shadowknows69]

34. I what respect Charlie?

Ok, I don't know what a turtle culvert is.

[sixstrings75]

35. Check this out. As I said in previous post, Long Point, ON, Can.

Long Point needed to do something about all the turtle casualties.

Here's a fetching read on a turtle culvert. Looks like a good idea to me. A lot of people around here are balking at the cost though. Curmudgeons.

http://longpointcauseway.com/download/LPCIP%20brochure.pdf

Thanks

[LeftyMom]

36. Davis has a frog tunnel, if that's what you're thinking of.

[chaska]

37. I wish we were so noble, but it's really just about keeping the roadways safer...

and free of some rather large turtles, alligators, snakes, etc. People would be all over the road trying to miss these "obstacles".