Discussion on Oathkeepers.org

[LuckyTheDog]

What worries me about this group is that is appears to be organizing members of the military to take on a political role -- which would be in appropriate to say the least. Individual soldiers should be able to speak their minds of course. But when military personnel -- as a group -- start assuming the role of "defenders of the republic" and pledge to act independently of civilian control, I get nervous.

I have left a couple of messages to that effect the site. And, to the credit of the people there, those messages have not been deleted. The responses to me have been predictably angry. But then, I was trying to be provocative (but respectful).

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/07/15/active-duty-solider-speaks-up/

If any of you decide to follow my lead, please do not go over the top. Most of these guys seem to be well-intentioned, even if they know not what they do.

[Joanne98]

1. "Christian" fifth column needs to be booted out NOW!

I intend on following your organization closely while I am in Afghanistan. I want to see it grow and reflect that our military and law enforcement are heavily made up of patriots, not mercenaries, and who fundamentally understand that what is ours already is not the government’s or anyone else’s to give us.

I am the first generation son of a legal Filipino immigrant who cannot understand what these elites in our 2-party system are doing to our country. I have also been an Infantryman since 2004, trained to be what enforces US foreign policy however we are able to.

I take it personally when I see Americans being mistreated and robbed of their own property rights and responsibilities.

Ray

RIP SGT Brennan Gibson. KIA 10DEC2006.



Tweets about this post:
truthgathering at 2009-07-20T10:51:39Z: OATH KEEPERS - Active Duty Solider Speaks Up http://q3iws.th8.us

Tags: active duty, Afghanistan, elites, foreign policy, immigrant, infantryman, kia, Law Enforcement, mercenaries, patriots, rights and responsibilities, sgt, solider
Posted in All, Testimonials | 14 Comments »

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14 Comments »
1.Thanks for your service Ray, I especially like your distinction of Patriots and mercenaries. Keep your head down buddy.
Semper Fi
(RVN 65-66)

Comment by Roy from Texas — July 15, 2009 @ 8:56 am
2.Welcome Ray, your honor, and insight adds to all of us.. and as Roy stated, a very nice distinction between Patriots and mercenaries..

Again I say, Welcome Brother.

Comment by David — July 15, 2009 @ 9:53 am
3.as a former paratrooper i want to thank you for your service and dedication to the constitution.we felt the same way as you do and we despised lyndon johnson.

Comment by bruce — July 15, 2009 @ 10:58 am
4.Ray,
Thank you for your service, sir.
My family and I appreciate it.

Patrick S. Bamrick
QM2(SW), (ex)USN
1984-1991

Comment by QM2(SW)Bam — July 15, 2009 @ 5:05 pm
5.Thank you Ray for your comments and patriotism. I am retired Army and love my country and will continue to uphold the Oath I took numerous times through my service career. Stay safe!!

Comment by Dave Lamberson — July 15, 2009 @ 8:03 pm
6.Hey Ray,
As a former Army MP and current L.E.O. I could not agree with you more. Thanks so much for your continued service and dedication to the Constitution and Oath. Stay safe and watch your six.

Mark
PA. Police Officer & Oath Keeper!

Comment by Mark Marchesi — July 15, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
7.my name is bob smith, am a viet vet “62 to 66″, thank all of you for your service, and for all of our comrades whom have fallen. I’am espescially pleased at the attitude of many younger soldier’s whom are seeing the light, i for one can not believe the depths to which this country has fallen, GOD BLESS all of you , and GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Comment by r smith — July 16, 2009 @ 9:24 pm
8.Ray —

Thanks for serving & your comments.

Watch your six!!!

Comment by NAMVETCAV6768 — July 18, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
9.Ray

You make an old Nam Vet proud. Honored to have you aboard. Keep those eyes open over there.

Comment by ken burns — July 19, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
10.16.Look, folks, I GET the idea that the military should not obey illegal orders. But the military is NOT a co-equal branch of the government. Thus, the military has no business interpreting the meaning of the Constitution or organizing itself to act in a political way. None whatsoever.

The people do not need military “protectors” to step in and save them from themselves. The people can defend the republic without the help of colonels in mirrored sunglasses who decide to make themselves the moral guardians of everybody else.

Movements like this always appear to be “well-meaning.” They always present themselves as the “honorable men” who will step in and rescue the “decadent” and deformed republic from the “dirty politicians.” But doing that is the role of civilians.

Organizing the military to take on the role of “putting things right” is a bad, bad, bad idea. This is the road to fascism.

Comment by anonymous — July 19, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
11.To anonymous: If a soldier or police officer was to obey an unlawful order, they could and would be held accountable for their actions. It is the duty and responsibility for a soldier or police officer to know the law and uphold and defend the Constitution. It is those who wish to move our country away from the Republic that one should fear, not the military and police. Prey, what do you find to be fascist about the orders or those who would reaffirm their oath? Methinks anonymous does not know how to read a map, nor has the balls to put their real name down.

Comment by Tiffany Osborn — July 19, 2009 @ 11:00 pm
12.Anonymous – you sir are wrong. The Vietnam War presented the United States military courts with more cases of the “I was only following orders” defense than any previous conflict. The decisions during these cases reaffirmed that following manifestly illegal orders is not a viable defense from criminal prosecution. In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed in order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. The Court of Military Appeals held that “the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal.”

The founders intended that ordinary citizens be able to “interpret” the Constitution as it protected their inalienable rights. As as you can see, Military courts have held men accountable for making the right call when they faced such a decision. The order to disarm law abiding citizens for example, is just as unlawful. The myth that the Constitution must be left to lawyers and courts to interpret is overused and transparent. You are either ignorant sir, or a willing traitor.

Jon B. Watts, SMSgt, USAF (ret.)

Comment by Jon Watts — July 19, 2009 @ 11:48 pm
13.Ray, Thanks for serving our country!
Ms.Osborn & Mr. Watts, Excellent responses!

Comment by 24X7Patriot — July 20, 2009 @ 7:26 am
14.Hey, Jon B. Watts, SMSgt, USAF (ret.)…

With all due respect, sir…

We do not need people in the military organizing a Honduran-style coup here in the U.S. The military needs to stay out of politics. Like I said, we do not need military “guardians” stepping in to protect the people from themselves. We can get by without that very nicely, thank you.

Instead of stockpiling ammo and organizing support for a potential coup, why not run for office? Why not set your brain to work coming up with a better plan for health care?

If wanting the military to remain under civilian control makes me a traitor, then that is what I am. But I think George Washington would disagree. He took off his uniform for good when he ran for president. He did that for a very good reason.

You are probably a good American. But you risk becoming what you most despise.

If you really, really want to compare the laws duly passed by our Congress with the illegal decrees issued by Hitler, then I invite you to try making that case to the American people. But do not call yourself a “guardian of the Republic” while organizing to take extra-legal action intended to undermine that republic.

Comment by anonymous — July 20, 2009 @ 9:14 am
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[kenfrequed]

2. Ok...

So about three or four items on this list were brought up by us liberal civil liberties people during the Bush administration. so where the hell were these bastards then?

[LuckyTheDog]

3. Umm... er... well...

Bush was ... white... right?

[AspenRose]

4. Yikes.

:wow: