I don't think we can have meaningful health care reform until we rid ourselves of lobbyist

[MoonRiver]

special interests. Over and over again big pharma, hospital and physician lobbyist groups destroy efforts of reformists to fix the health care system. We need to go back to square ONE, which is eliminating ability of special interests to destroy reform.

[billyoc]

1. So, never, then. Lobbyists are specifically protected by the Constitution.

Sorry about that.

[MoonRiver]

2. Then maybe we need a constitutional amendment.

And, yes, it is that important.

[billyoc]

5. A constitutional amendment? In THIS country?

:rofl:

[MoonRiver]

8. If things get bad enough, which I believe they will be if Obama can't enact health care reform,

YES, it will be a definite possibility.

[billyoc]

11. It will definitely never be a possibility. 2/3 majority in both houses and 3/5 of the states.

A "sky is blue" amendment wouldn't get 10 feet. It just can't happen.

[timeforpeace]

15. Funny. And true.

[DJ13]

3. Lobbyists may be protected

But if we could achieve a true publicly financed election system they would be neutered.

[MoonRiver]

4. But you have to get around them, and all the legislators who are beholden to them,

to succeed. Catch 22.

[billyoc]

6. Ah, there's the rub. They wouldn't be neutered, but YOUR lobbyists would have just as much clout.

[DJ13]

10. They would be neutered

If they couldnt use campaign donations to secure votes they wouldnt have any pull.

Our current pay to play system has become legalized bribery, but if you remove the money from campaigning it opens up the possibility the lobbyists could be charged with attempted bribery when their only way to influence votes is to buy the politicians "gifts" or provide them with other amenities like expensive trips.

The fear of getting caught trying to bribe politicians would effectively neuter them.

[billyoc]

12. We're mixing campaign financing and lobbying here. An easy trap to fall into,

since both involve bribery.

[DJ13]

13. Its not a trap, its the real state of our political system today

The DOJ should investigate every single PAC on Capitol Hill for RICO violations.

[billyoc]

23. Amen. Anti-trust violations, too.

[crickets]

16. ^THIS

If they couldnt use campaign donations to secure votes they wouldnt have any pull.

Agreed, lobbying in its current form is legalized bribery. Taking away the money and the 'gifts' would go a long way toward leveling the playing field, as would public campaign financing.

Good luck taking away the goodies, though. Most reps are shamelessly enamored of the current system.

[Towlie]

14. No, lobbyists are not protected by the Constitution.

That assertion is based on the First Amendment provision for "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances", however, lobbyists who represent corporations and other special interest groups are not "the people" and shouldn't be treated as such.

The ideal solution, in my opinion, is to force corporations and special interest groups to petition the people, through advertising or editorials, in an attempt to get their support. If they succeed then they can encourage those people to write their Congressional representatives. Lobbyists should not be allowed to bypass the people and have direct and private access to Congress. We should know about everything they're trying to do to influence our lawmakers.

[crickets]

17. It wouldn't be such a problem if the 'right to petition' didn't allow money to do the talking. -nt

[billyoc]

22. Here in America, Inc., corporations certainly ARE the people, the USSC made that settled law.

[malletgirl02]

7. Will Never happen

So no health care reform for us.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Or maybe it'll be the other way 'round.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Not a fan of the first amendment, eh?

Nah, I think we can have both the 1st amendment, and health care.

[Towlie]

19. The 1st Amendment does NOT grant a right to corporations to petition for a redress of grievances.

It reserves that right for The People.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Sure it does.

Corporations are owned by people. Those people have a right to hire other people to petition their government in regards to the businesses that they own.

[spin]

21. Well if we don't get real heathcare reform....

we can just vote out the bastards who voted against it.

[sarcasmo]

24. Kick back to the top, Big Pharma Lobbyists own two thirds of the Beltway.

[MoonRiver]

25. I obviously agree

and don't understand why anyone HERE would not. :wow:

[donheld]

26. We'll never have a meaningful anything till we get rid of the lobbyists

but that doesn't mean we don't fight for what we can get.