It's time for a referendum on Health Care (rant)

[stuball111]

Once and for all, just to shut all these shitheads out there in America who spout all this shit about Canadian, and Norway, and European systems, and don't know what in the hell they are talking about. Have a nation wide vote, at the polls, and let the people decide on a single payer system once and for all. The last election already decide what the people want, aren't they listening to what the voters decided last November? Then run it through again! I am so tired of hearing all the bald faced lies, and criminals yapping at me through my TV screen, and I just saw Harry dickbrain and his fucking cow Louise again on TV! Mr. and Mrs. know it all everything about what's good for the rest of America. THESE PEOPLE DON"T EXIST IN REAL LIFE! People like them aren't sipping coffee and having a casual conversation about health care! They are scared shitless about the money they lost in their investments, losing their house and how they are going to pay for the heart attack WHEN it comes! And ol Harry is secretly eying the 40 Cal, and Louise's life insurance policy! And Louise is doing the same thing! So listen folks, forget about single payer universal care in America. It will never happen. Put your money under your mattress, invest in Smith and Wesson, and start applying for citizenship in Canada, or Sweden or Norway if you dream of living in a country with universal health care.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. Every time someone around here recommends a European style healthcare system...

...people start foaming at the mouth about being forced to pay for insurance.

start applying for citizenship in Canada, or Sweden or Norway if you dream of living in a country with universal health care.

But surely don't go to the Netherlands or Germany because, shock of shocks, you'll have to get insurance.

[stuball111]

2. It's FREE

in Canada... they aren't "forced" to pay for anything, nor are they "forced" to do anything, it's simply there,for all, 100% coverage, choose your Doctor, and it isn't "run" by the government. THAT"S what you don't hear, and what I haven't heard on hours of watching coverage on TV. And yes, you'll "have" to get it, because everyone gets it, automatically!

[Gwendolyn]

6. Ummm... it's not exactly free.

It gets paid for through employment, federal taxes and every time you buy new underwear. You're sort of forced to pay taxes and it's hard not to make any purchases at all. But I get your sentiment. Carry on. :)

[stuball111]

10. In some provinces...

Like Alberta, it is TOTALLY free. in others, it's paid for with small premiums, and yes, by taxes. BUT the overall cost per person is about $5,000 per year, for 100% coverage, not denials, no extra fees or deductibles, and total universality. Of course it has to be funded, but the taxes come from business and sales tax which spreads it out. For the same coverage here, you'd pay about at least 10-20,grand.

[Gwendolyn]

14. Where are you getting that it's totally free in Alberta?

Per dollar spent on health care:

16 cents comes from federal transfer payments;
80 cents comes from Alberta’s general revenues; and
04 cents comes from the Alberta Cancer Prevention Legacy fund, lottery and other revenues.

http://www.health.alberta.ca/newsroom/funding-quick-facts.html

The taxpayers help fund the system in Alberta and across Canada, which is balanced through business and sales tax. I look at it like a gym membership. Pay your yearly fee and you get unlimited access to the facilities.

The only time it's truly free is if you are unemployed and living off your savings, for instance.

[stuball111]

16. No premiums paid

Of course it's not "free" as far as that goes, but the "revenues" come from Oil royalties.fed transfers come from taxes. It costs about 5 grand per person in Canada and about 20 here.

[ipaint]

3. NON profit insurance in every country but

the Netherlands which allowed for profit insurance companies to provide coverage in 2006. As a result folks there are already complaining about higher rates.


"Insurance companies must offer a core universal insurance package for the universal primary, curative care which includes the cost of all prescription medicines. They must do this at a fixed price for all. The same premium is paid whether young or old, healthy or sick. It is illegal in The Netherlands for insurers to refuse an application for health insurance, to impose special conditions (e.g. exclusions, deductables, co-pays etc or refuse to fund treatments which a doctor has determined to be medically necessary). The system is 50% financed from payroll taxes paid by employers to a fund controlled by the Health regulator. The government contributes an additional 5% to the regulator's fund. The remaining 45% is collected as premiums paid by the insured directly to the insurance company.
...The standard monthly premium for health care paid by individual adults is about €100 per month. Persons on low incomes can get assistance from the government if they cannot afford these payments. Children under 18 are insured by the system at no additional cost to them or their families because the insurance company receives the cost of this from the regulator's fund."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_Netherlands


$142.00 american for an individual per month with a variation of 5% between insurance plans. No deductables, co-pays or refusal of treatment. No refusal of any application for ins. Lower income folks are subsidized.

[stuball111]

4. Still better than here...

And thanks for the post, once private gets its foot in the door, public will phase out. but it would be the reverse here, A public plan would ruin the private insurance monopoly here, and the repubs have come right out and said that

[ipaint]

5. Public ruins private...How?

Specifics please.

[stuball111]

7. It's cheaper more efficient

Private can't compete with that, and they have said so. Why do you think they are putting up such a fight? If they really cared about the accessibility and universality, and cost saving to the country, and not the shareholders profits, they'd be all for it. We spend about 15-22% gdp on health care in the US, compared to 10% in Canada. those numbers speak for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/february/10_myths_about_canad.php

And there's plenty more proof right here on the good ol WWW, if the majority of Americans would just sit down for 10 min. and have a look, but they put their faith in Fox news, and/or are too busy yelling at the kids to sit down at the Playstation 2, or worrying about how they are going to keep their house.

[ipaint]

8. The cbo numbers on the proposed health reform

do not show any significant savings in premiums. They specifically state the public options premiums would closely match for profit insurance premiums. That is not going to drive down anything.

I know how that works when it's done right and for your info the pnhp guarantees the current health reform will fail because for profit insurance co's are included.

When I asked for specifics I was referring to specifics in the proposed public option the guarntee thet insurance companies will be forced to compete at rates equivalent to a government non profit ins. plan.

[stuball111]

11. Then you aren't reading something right.

If there was a REAL Universal Government plan, you would have the 40 or so Million people paying the premiums.That's moe money into the system right there. I haven't seen the cbo numbers,or how they calculate things, but I assume they are not talking about a Canadian style system or the numbers would be automatically lower, because the percent of GDP would drop 5-10% That is a HUGE savings right there. Also, there would only be one administrator of the plan, the State, thereby saving another 5-10%. by comparing the two plans, you can see how it is cheaper with a single payer plan.

[ipaint]

13. You said this-

"A public plan would ruin the private insurance monopoly here, and the repubs have come right out and said that"

I am saying no it won't.

[stuball111]

17. Suit yourself..

:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

9. Referendums are NEVER a good idea... the framers made this a Representative Republic for a reason

..so direct democracy.... aka tyranny of the majority.... wouldn't rule the day.


...and they were wise to do so.

[stuball111]

12. What about "propositions" ?

Aren't they a form of referendum?

[Posteritatis]

15. Yes, and look at how that turned out in California. (nt)