Oh dear G-ddess, it gets worse... Deals made with drugmakers and hospitals

[nightrain]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/21/obama-cuts-private-deals_n_242212.html



In cutting deals with hospitals and drugmakers, President Barack Obama is giving a private inside track to special interests that's at odds with his promise to make policy in the open.

Obama promised Americans he would hold special interests at arm's length -- that it would no longer be business as usual in Washington. He pledged to open government and let the public and press hold his administration accountable.

And just over two months before the 2008 election, Obama promised before an audience in Chester, Va., to hash out a health care overhaul in public. "We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies," he said then.

That didn't happen.

Instead, the administration's multibillion-dollar deals with hospitals and pharmaceutical companies have been made in private, and the results were announced after the fact. Both industries promised Obama cost savings in return for an expanded base of insured patients; beyond that, the public is in the dark about details.

In some ways, it resembles what his party criticized President George W. Bush for doing with oil and gas companies as Vice President Dick Cheney wrote a national energy plan in the early days of the Bush administration.

As the Bush White House did, the Obama White House is refusing to release visitor logs that would let people see everyone going in and out during the thick of discussions over major national policies.

Just as environmentalists complained they were shut out as Cheney drafted energy policy, employers now complain that the Obama administration isn't giving them enough say in health care policy. Like the environmentalists, employers fear a new policy will come at their expense.

>>>>snip<<<<< click on link for more


(wrapping flame retardant protection around me....)

[debbierlus]

1. It is sad that pointing out obvious hypocrisy from Obama will get you flamed

If Bush did it, the whole community would be united.

Policy over politician.

Simple.

[truth2power]

18. Aw, heck...I've said it over and over..we criticize the Republicans

because they march in lock-step. They never deviated from agreement with what the Chimp had to say.

Remember when people here said it wouldn't matter if Bush roasted an infant on the front lawn of the WH, or some such hideous act? Yeah..

How is this different?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

39. Our ability to self-check should be one of our greatest

strengths.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. It's the truth what you posted. And the truth will set you free. K&R

[Captain Hilts]

3. Pharmaceuticals are able to hold onto patents MUCH longer to prevent generics. nt

[theboss]

43. If you are going to slash annual profits, you have to give something back

You can't just say to Big Pharma, invent more drugs and then give them away.

My guess is I'm one of the few people here to ever sit across a negotiating table with pharmacy and medical supply companies. You have to be strong with them, but they do spend billions in R&D and need to get something back.

[johnaries]

4. Now, wait a minute.....

"Both industries promised Obama cost savings in return for an expanded base of insured patients"

First of all, is an expanded base of insured patients (Universal Health Care) what we WANT? So, he managed to get promises of cost savings as a bonus. Haven't we wanted to enable the Government to negotiate prices?

OK, so the point is that the negotiations were held in private. Well, DUH! I doubt the industries would have talked to him any other way. At least he was able to negotiate.

Let's wait until we hear the details before we jump to conclusions.

As far as the arguments over Health Care being broadcast over C-Span, they are. The arguments are happening in Congress.

[conscious evolution]

13. 'until we hear the details'

Details worked out behind closed doors never work out for the average joe.
Don't believe it? Ask the people of Iraq how the details of cheneys energy task force worked out for them.

[truedelphi]

15. I think most Americans want the government to quit being the toadie of

The Big Pharma and Big Insurance industries.

There should not be any sort of deals like this. If we get a plan that insures all or most Americans, then the Big Pharma interests will see an increase in customers, as right now people cannot afford drugs. There is no reason why any concessions should be offered to Big Pharma to sweeten the deal. there over-priced crap is already offering them profits that drug makers fifty years ago never even dreamed possible.

But for the type of deals being made as described in this article, well, it only proves that Obama is not the President of We the People, but instead the President of We the Corporation. He is staffing FDA and EPA with Monsanto's best buddies, guaranteeing that GMO foods and seeds will push out conventional foods and seeds. And meanwhile his economic advisers are destroying Main Street. If he is our friend, then we of the middle class do not need friends like that!

When someone can show me where I am wrong, I will eat the rug my cat sleeps on!

[Ben78]

51. Obama Gives the AMA $245 Billion to Gain Their Support For Health Care Bill

WASHINGTON —" House Democrats want to give doctors a $245 billion sweetener that helps ensure their critical support for a health care overhaul bill. Next up: Trying to explain how they could do it without breaking President Barack Obama’s promise that health legislation won’t increase the federal deficit.

Obama reiterated the pledge in a “CBS Evening News” interview Tuesday, saying: “It’s got to be deficit neutral. It can’t add to our deficits.”

So what of the Congressional Budget Office’s conclusion that the House bill does add to the deficit?

Democrats and the Obama administration argue that the $245 billion included for doctors — the approximate 10-year cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don’t face big annual pay cuts — does not have to be counted in the overall cost of the health care bill.

Their only-in-Washington reasoning is that they already decided to exempt it from congressional “pay-as-you-go” rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn’t have to be paid for because they decided it doesn’t have to be paid for.

The administration also says that since Obama already included the so-called “doc fix” in his 10-year budget proposal, it doesn’t have to be counted again in the health overhaul bill."

Continue: http://www.reboottherepublic.com/blog/healthcare/obama-gives-the-ama-245-billion-to-gain-their-support-for-health-care-bill/

[nightrain]

53. My initial take on this is--This is part of the wheeling and dealing

in backrooms that has gone on, that we are not privy to. Kinda like the give-away to the drug corps--no cheaper imports from Canada and no Medicare bargaining for reduced drug costs. Then add in the other give-away which is making the generics wait 12 years.

If someone has video of these negotiations, I would love to have a link.

Keep questioning!

[Initech]

5. That just shows you who the real criminals in this country are.

[earth mom]

6. When are people gonna get it that Corporate America OWNS Washington DC?!

Can it be ANY more obvious?! :puke:

[Initech]

16. Probably never.

This is politics in America - "I like what the puppet on the left says." "No, the puppet on the right is more to my liking!" "Hey look, there's one guy holding up both puppets!" "SHUT UP! Go back to bed America your government is in control! Here watch American Idol and get fat and stupid! Oh and keep eating Taco Bell you fucking morons!!!!!"

[TommyPaine]

22. If only Bill Hicks were still around...

How badly do we need Bill today. Goddamn I miss the guy. Now that George Carlin's gone America's without its two greatest comedian/social critics. :(

[earth mom]

29. I miss Carlin a lot. But notice how he was rarely on t.v. the past few decades?

I remember him on t.v all the time in the seventies.

Obviously the corporate media bastards couldn't have Carlin on speaking truth to power. x(

[TommyPaine]

30. True - other than HBO, he wasn't on TV much

His last HBO special was 2007 or 2008, and he did appear on Real Time on a few occasions (always a great guest, of course). But other than HBO you rarely saw him on TV. He was on Letterman in 1994, 1997, and 2001, but that's about it as far as mainstream television. One thing I love about George is that the older he got the more outspoken he became. A hero of sorts for me, and I'm not one for heroes.

[Initech]

33. Yeah it sucks. At least we still have Lewis Black.

[Hydra]

7. No flames yet

Other than possible "ignored" I see there. I'm rather surprised, really.

Thank you for posting despite the risk to the messenger here.

[defendandprotect]

8. kick - back later

[bvar22]

9. K&R .....now at +18

:patriot:

[LiberalAndProud]

10. Hospitals and pharmacies provide the care.

I wouldn't consider them special interest groups. What is wrong with trying to control costs? WTF??? More affordable healthcare is a BAD thing?

I notice that United Health Group wasn't at the table. I don't see a problem here.

[emilyg]

11. k/r

[Laelth]

12. Since when do "We the People" have to make deals with oligarchs?

We are (or were) a Republic. Congress ought to be able to pass any law it pleases, whether the oligarchs want it or not Congress ought to be able to do what it feels is best for the American people. Instead, we have to "make a deal" with our oligarchs.

This country is but a shadow of the Republic the founders envisioned. It's pretty much an oligarchy now. This makes me very sad.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the solution to a failed public health system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[omega minimo]

17. since people accepted it, embraced it and even today on DU, advocate for it.........

:thumbsdown:

[JDPriestly]

14. We walked precincts to elect Obama. He promised transparency in his government.

He is breaking his promise -- to us -- to his supporters -- to the people who worked to get him elected.

This is a huge mistake. He is doing a good job in coming out now and pushing for health care reform. But what kind of reform will we get? He needs to lead the way toward transparency in that. And he is not doing it. This secrecy will backfire. Ultimately, the secrecy will help the big corporations and hurt Obama. Obama is more than anything foolish to agree to secret negotiations.

Sunlight is a good disinfectant in this kind of situation. Let the sun shine in on your negotiations, President Obama. You have everything to gain. Don't do in private what you wouldn't do in public. That's the lesson you should have learned from Ensign, Sanford, Clinton. If you can't do it in public, don't do it.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. ...

[RBInMaine]

20. Can you circular firing squaders please END this shit and support the President. ! Or get off this

forum ! This guy is 100 times better than Bush or McCain. We are in a major fight for healthcare now and he is working like hell to get it done. This is not the time for this kind of insane circular firing squad horseshit. Enough already !

[nightrain]

21. it is painful and uncomfortable as the fog clears. Yep. Obama is

much improved over Bush, and as I see it, I want to know the details and deals going into these Congressional proposals, so I can evaluate them.

If it's too uncomfortable, please ignore.

[RBInMaine]

23. And you are ignoring site rules that say we are support Dems. Fine, Obama and Dems aren't perfect,

and many of these issues are complicated. You will also NEVER get everything you want. Pick your battles. Would you rather have "ObamaCare" or "RepublicanCare"? Would you rather have Obama setting our foreign policy, or Bush/McCain/Palin/Cheney? Would you rather have Obama and Dems in charge, or McCain/McConnell? Kindly count your blessings for a change and focus the fire on the RePUKES. SHEESH !

[orleans]

24. just because we support dems doesn't mean we have to suck their dicks

all the time

you never criticize your kids/parents/friends/neighbors/teachers/peers?

i didn't notice a rule that says we are not allowed to express criticism of democrats--maybe you could quote it for me--specifically the part about how we have to sprinkle fairy dust and fly around chanting: "life is perfect, democrats are perfect." go ahead, find that part of the "rules" for me and the rest of us--i'm sure others would be interested in reading that as well.

[donco6]

26. I'd like to see that rule.

There'd be no one left on this board if it's stated as you are implying.

[maryf]

35. The difference is miniscule...and mostly nominal...nt

[orleans]

25. why don't you "get off"? sounds like you could use a break.

[earth mom]

28. Quit living in denial. nt

[Moochy]

40. the circle is in the eye of the beholder

MOAR PUPPIES THREADZ!

[Le Taz Hot]

48. Could you goose-steppers

get another line? The old "circular firing squad" meme is getting pretty tired. And it's not up to YOU to determine who is and is not allowed to post here. If you don't like it, YOU leave! The DLC is always looking for willing sycophants.

[keepCAblue]

27. Leave Britney alone!!!!!!!! nt

[bertman]

31. Recommend highly. Just today I heard another tidbit about the "compromise" plan that

President Obama is supporting. That healthcare exchange that people can go to to select their healthcare options is only for Americans who are CURRENTLY UNINSURED. So, if you have a crap policy now with $5000 deductibles and a shitload of restrictions, YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT.

This is not reform. It's funneling new business to the INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

If this turns out to be true, it is fucked up.

I was worried that all this closed-door negotiating was going to screw the pooch.

[rucky]

32. Big Pharma can kill the public option - easy.

Simply by saying no to collective bargaining.

We have to make a deal with them to get this program to fly. I don't see much of a way around this.

[berni_mccoy]

34. Well well well, looks like this is another KNEE-JERK reaction of the Anti-Obama gang

Obama answered this question directly:

He stated:
1. We broadcast the kick-off meeting directly on C-Span (lookslike the AP reporter wasn't watching and didn't check her facts)
2. We've had the press in every meeting Administration officials have been in
3. Senate/House meetings were up to them to have C-Span cover their meetings

[maryf]

36. Last paragraph says it all...

"That means the interests whose ideas make it into national policy are usually those with the money and clout to press their case in Washington, and who have the power to block any idea they haven't helped to shape." always follow the money...

[berni_mccoy]

38. Except that it's completely false.

[maryf]

44. Get real McCoy nt

[berni_mccoy]

37. That Report IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT: Here is the C-SPAN COVERAGE (LINK)

It's from APRIL 09.

There are many more meetings covered by C-SPAN.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/04/08/HP/A/17243/White+House+On+Health+Reform.aspx

[boomerbust]

41. Here's a quote

From wrestling dude Jim Cornette- " To all you people who are whining about Obama, shut the fuck up, get the fuck out of his way and let him try to fix our shit before it's to late".:smoke:

[theboss]

42. Not to go all wonky, but if you are going to completely change the way hospitals bill ....

You should probably have them involved in the discussion.

Anyway, hasn't anyone figured out Obama's approach to EVERYTHING yet? He sees himself as the Chief Arbitrator. He wants everyone at the table and hashing out their demands and issues and concerns and he tries to find a solution that gives everyone a little bit of what they want.

He did it with the banks.
He did it with the autos.
He is doing it with healthcare.
Before cap and trade is done, he will have done it with the coal, oil, and nuclear power industries, I am sure.

Is this a bad thing? Or do we really want Ted Kennedy overhauling the entire system all by himself?

The reason, Hillary failed at this same thing was because she locked all the impacted parties out of the process and they torpedoed it.

[nightrain]

45. this healthcare proposal process has been neither open nor inclusive AFAIK

Certain parties have been welcomed and others were excluded. I feel betrayed. (AND I STILL WOULD VOTE FOR OBAMA AGAIN OVER MCCAIN!)

What people seem to be saying is that the deck was rigged before the card game began.

Consciousness is sometimes (maybe often?) painful in my experience. It is sometimes more familiar and easier to deny what is actually happening. Some of us are attempting to shed light on these Congressional and Administrative processes.

(I'd rather have Kucinich doing it. I think he has more integrity.)

[theboss]

46. And maybe you'd also like to rain flowers

Kucinich can't get legislation passed. Obama can.

Seriously, did you just think it was going to magically get Congress to pass the perfect healthcare bill and get no resistance from the industry?

[kimmerspixelated]

49. I agree. In our hearts, we all knew Kucinich

was the one, but Obama was charming and the kind of new face we wanted to see. I still love Obama, but it has occurred to me that maybe that sad look on his face on election nite, was not because he missed his grandma who recently passed, but because the PTB had a talk with him, and staked a claim on what he could and could not do. Perhaps he is a prisoner of their terms. Cheney's shadow government still intact????

[mopinko]

47. THIS STORY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED

why are you defending it? do you honestly think you can restructure an entire industry with out even talking to their reps? the clue that it might be shit is that they promised savings.

[Ben78]

50. For your consideration.

I came across these findings today on government health care. Are seniors being targeted? All Americans should find this troubling. To me, this should be between you and your physician, and not the federal government. I thought some here would find this interesting.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2009/07/18/house-health-care-reform-bill-mandatory-counseling-to-end-life-sooner-in-health-care-bill/
"I have been alerted today that a Betsy McCoy claimed on the Fred Thompson radio show that there is a “mandatory counseling” session required for seniors in the House health care reform bill intended to induce them to make health care decisions that would end their lives sooner. As you can imagine, that got my attention, so I decided I should look it up. She said the offending passage began on page 425 of the bill, so I went there.

Is she right? It is very hard to tell. That section of the bill refers to existing law without quoting it. But it does seem to REQUIRE that people on Medicare receive an “Advance Care Planning Consultation” EVERY FIVE YEARS or when their health status changes."

~~~~~~~~~~

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8345
"A lot of the health policies that somehow made their way into a package that’s purported to deal with “economic stimulus” were written with the advice of Tom Daschle (no, evil doesn’t just walk away). Daschle’s book on health care states that seniors should sacrifice advancements in care so that resources can be spent primarily on the young."

~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs
"Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt."

[nightrain]

52. "Advance Care Planning" is nothing new. I guess you are

not a healthcare practitioner. Read up on "advance directives" and "medical power of attorney", also "DNR". This stuff is years and years old and commonplace in hospitals and other sites. My parents and I have discussed these items many times in the past few years. No big deal.

Daschle is not someone I trust on healthcare issues. I think he's been corrupted by his connections to healthcare corporations etc.

I doubt any practitioner worth their salt would withhold pain meds from someone intentionally unless there were some issues with abuse of the meds. And there are plenty of non-pharm pain techniques.

These are scare tactics.

Thanks for posting and asking.

[scentopine]

54. In the "free" market - 99% of us are meat for the market

You can thank the onset and dominance of the MBA in American business. Everything is for sale, everything is a commodity. Even your life. If you have a home, family and you are saving money, congress via their corporate sponsors will see this as an opportunity and they'll work out a way to siphon it off.

Wall Street is good example - when the nation is suffering, the CEOs and their legions are drowning in cash. For the wealthy, its a near optimal set-point. That's our pension, our taxes, our savings - taken from you and handed over to a wall Street CEO who will spend it on a high end BMW and through this act graciousness the guy changing his oil will be able to afford a big mac for diner. When the oil changer ges sick, another is ready to take his place.

Health care execs are simply MBA parasites feeding on human flesh. They charge outrageous rates when you are healthy and refuse coverage when you are sick. With all the cash they get, they then buy congress - who have the best health plan in the nation.

It's a completely golden racket. The parasites will never give that up unless we all work together to take it from them. That won't happen because Reid and Pelosi are the worst leadership ever for the democratic party. So both democrats and republicans are going to make sure single payer never sees light of day.

[nightrain]

55. yes, indeed it has worked that way, but it doesn't have to. Thank you for your contribution.

[nightrain]

56. I ran across more info about the Daschle "quote"--

A link to this site was posted on the equal email list today.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_persons_older_than.html

Here's a snip of it--
---------------

"Daschle Didn't Say That


Finally, the e-mail claims that the stimulus bill "includes provisions for extensive rationing of health care for senior citizens." No, it doesn't.

Some conservatives have said that a council overseeing the government's funding of comparative effectiveness research (research into which medicines and procedures work best and are most cost-effective) will "ration" health care. But the council created by the stimulus legislation (now public law) doesn't have any power to do that. In fact, the legislation stipulates that "one of the reports submitted under this section or recommendations made by the Council shall be construed as mandates or clinical guidelines for payment, coverage, or treatment."

The e-mail speculates that former Sen. Tom Daschle, once Obama's nominee to head the Department of Health and Human Services, was the author of this part of the bill. And it falsely says that Bloomberg News quoted Daschle as saying: "Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them." Daschle didn't say that.

Instead, those are the words of the former Republican lieutenant governor of New York, Betsy McCaughey, who wrote an opinion piece for Bloomberg News and offered her reading of comments in Daschle's book. Back in February, we dissected McCaughey's column, pieces of which have popped up in chain e-mails, and found it to be full of errors. McCaughey also passes off opinion as fact, and in the case of Daschle, she paraphrases him, which is clear from the lack of quote marks in the column.

What Daschle did say is a far cry from "seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them." Instead, he wrote (without mentioning age) in his book "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis": "The use and overuse of new technologies and treatments is grounded in American culture. ... More so than people in other countries, just aren't inclined to fatalistically accept a hopeless diagnosis or forgo experimental interventions if there is even the slightest chance of success."

He also quoted Rutgers University health care policy expert David Mechanic, who wrote: "more and more of what were once seen as social, behaviorial, or normative aspects of everyday life, or as normal processes of aging, are now framed in a medical context. ... Whether wrinkles, breasts, or buttocks, impotence or social anxieties, or inattention in school, they all have become grist for the medical mill."

– Lori Robertson"


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