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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:48 PM
Original message
Worst Case Scenario


This screen grab from a video shows Private Bowe R. Bergdahl, who is being held captive by Taliban militants. (Photo: AFP / Getty Images)

Worst Case Scenario
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Columnist

Tuesday 21 July 2009

The coward wretch whose hand and heart
Can bear to torture aught below,
Is ever first to quail and start
From the slightest pain or equal foe.


- Bertrand Russell


The torture debate in America got real three weeks ago.

Oh, the debate has been around for years now, of course, ever since the photos of what happened in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq came to light. Men covered in feces, bent double and lashed to bedframes, their faith humiliated by the menstrual blood smeared on their faces, their bodies savaged by dogs, and worse, reports of the rape of women and children.

Yes, the torture debate has been around for a while now, recently revisited by President Obama, who condemned and discontinued the practice, and by enablers of torture like Dick Cheney and John Yoo, who have labored mightily to defend it. It's been quite the hot topic among the chattering classes of American political discourse, a dialogue in three parts: one group condemning the practice, another group championing it, and a third group - the media professionals - taking no position and trying not to offend anyone, so they can get the big names back on the set for the Sunday shows.

Three weeks ago, however, the whole nature of the torture debate changed irrevocably when an American soldier from Idaho named Bowe Bergdahl somehow fell into the hands of the Taliban in Afghanistan. They have him now, and God help him, because it was the United States government under the administration of George W. Bush that set the terms for how anyone captured can and should be treated.

If the Taliban decide Bergdahl has information they want, they can waterboard him until he talks. They can compress his body and cover him with insects, they can rob him of sleep and deny him food, they can beat him and slather his body with his own waste, they can shove sticks into his rectum, they can rape him, and they can murder him. They can hand him over to representatives of another government and have him whisked away to some far-flung dungeon where "enhanced interrogation" has an even darker and more savage definition. For sure, they can deny him due process of any kind and never, ever, ever, ever let him go home again.

They could do this whether or not the United States had engaged in similar practices, but because we did these things, they can do these things and still claim the moral high ground. Why not? It was the United States government under the administration of George W. Bush who plowed that high ground into the gutter. Everyone stands the same height when they're face-down in the sewer.

One thing the Taliban apparently cannot do, however, is videotape their prisoner. Several days ago, a tape of Bergdahl, with his head shaved, pleading to be sent home to his parents, was released by his captors. "I am scared," said Bergdahl in the video. "I'm scared I won't be able to go home. It is very unnerving to be a prisoner. I have my girlfriend who is hoping to marry. I have my grandma and grandpas. I have a very, very good family that I love back home in America. And I miss them every day that I'm gone. I miss them and I'm afraid that I might never see them again and that I'll never be able to tell them that I love them again. I'll never be able to hug them."

The US government reacted swiftly to the video of Bergdahl. "We condemn the use of this video and the public humiliation of prisoners," said US military spokesman Col. Greg Julian. "It is against international law. We are doing everything we can to return this soldier to safety."

How hard it must have been for the US military to release a statement like that without feeling sick at heart and scared to death. The terrible irony and hypocrisy of the statement they released about the Bergdahl video must have been searing; we have set the table in such a way that torture is a positive action that saves lives, but videotapes are right out? No, that doesn't scan, and we know it, and the Taliban know it, and dollars to donuts Bergdahl knows it, too. Is he waiting in terror for the torture to begin? Has it already started?

The torture debate in America got real three weeks ago, and every American so-called Christian who has defended the practice can appreciate the lesson: we reap what we sow.

Pray Bowe Bergdahl doesn't reap it for us.

http://www.truthout.org/072109R
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is my absolute worst fear
We sowed the wind and now we shall reap the whirlwind.
I have family in Afghanistan. It scares the shit out of me.:cry:
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. If I were the prayerful type, I would...
A perfect example of why I'm still anti-torture, even if (allegedly) 50% of Americans are "for" it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. I've seen you around these parts long enough to know that you have another reason
It's wrong.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is It Me Or Is This Story Hardly Being Covered?
Not to mention the angle you've done so well to explore.

I'm sickened and horrified by what we've wrought. This poor kid.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Not a dot...
...which is why I was so harsh.

Now we'll see...a) if I have any impact, and; b) if a story like this can help.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. We can't discuss it as a nation
because we have CONDONED torture.
We have a date with destiny here. One that we put our stamp of approval on.:(
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. The less media attention that is given the better
The town where the young man is from is keeping very quiet too.

This is the right move because the more attention it gets the bigger the chance we end up with a case as the US reporter that was beheaded
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. So
you're saying it'll be my fault if the Taliban figure out they can torture this guy?

Really?

No.

Don't buy into the silence.

My 2 cents.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Will wouldn't we want the best chances of getting him home?


Even if we the media played the story 24/7 what benefit would it provide.

I would guess that there are some negotiations going on behind cave doors if you will. We may get him back but you get the loudmouth knuckle draggers inflaming an already bad situation and we reduce his changes.

No it wouldn't be your fault, his life and his blood will rest on *, Chenny, Rummy, Gonzo, and Yoo.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. You both have good points but the media isn't doing this for any bit of altruism
They know they helped support the torture regime and the blowback might get shit on their pristine newspapers.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. it's in the paper in my tiny burg this week
:hi:
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you.

I hope that the soldier is released and finds his way back to his loved ones.

With everything that the Bush administration has done to undermine the US and profit from war I just hope that they see what evils they have done could now be visited on this poor kid.

The obvious truth is that they couldn't care less. The only answer is that they should be indicted for war crimes.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Some right wingers are saying he abandoned his post
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. This man is collateral damage in "their" war
to allow themselves to be saddened by his fate would be admitting to their failure of policy that brought us to this time and place.
They simply cannot allow him to become the human face that proved that their policy was flawed.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Clearly its a defensive move on their part.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. That's exactly what I was going to say...
They have to dehumanize him. Make him into "the other". Because if they show any concern for him, and he ends up being tortured, that will really put them between a rock and a hard place.

This way, those bottom-feeders can just say he deserved it. What sickos!!

And why was that military-type in the OP baying about "international law"? He should just STFU!! George Bush wiped his ass with "international law" a long time ago.

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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. How Nazi of them.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. It isn't just the right wingers saying that - the Oregonian newspaper had
a headline yesterday that pretty much screamed the question - was he a deserter?

Personally, I don't give a crap if he walked away from his post or not. No American deserves to fall into their hands. And Pitt's point on torture is spot-on.

I find it cumbersome to link on this device, but oregonlive.com is the link for our local paper if one wanted to see a headline.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Hmmm, the taliban would be doing us a favor if they got rid of the right wingers
Support the Troops? Only if convenient!
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
51. Right wingers now hate the troops
Remember, to them, the military is only important depending on whether they like the CiC or not.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. Can THIS keep DU's notoriously distracted attention?
If not...well, there it is.

We'll see. Probably. Sadly.

Tried this before.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Don't worry, we're paying attenti...HEY LOOK, IT'S A PUPPY!
And I don't know how much of a joke this post really is. x(
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Who's "we're"?
...and how haven't they been banned yet?

;)

:(
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. I don't think so Will
This post should have a bazillion replies and recs.
And it doesn't.
Sad state of affairs.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. You know, will,
I imagine you believe you are writing this sort of on "behalf" of the soldier and his family, and on behalf of other soldiers and families.

"If the Taliban decide Bergdahl has information they want, they can waterboard him until he talks. They can compress his body and cover him with insects, they can rob him of sleep and deny him food, they can beat him and slather his body with his own waste, they can shove sticks into his rectum, they can rape him, and they can murder him. They can hand him over to representatives of another government and have him whisked away to some far-flung dungeon where "enhanced interrogation" has an even darker and more savage definition. For sure, they can deny him due process of any kind and never, ever, ever, ever let him go home again."

And I also imagine how the family would react coming across this little torture-fantasy scenario you wrote up, about their son, if they are googling his name to see what people are saying about him.

For a while I was blogging the soldiers who were killed, pulling stories about them, finding the best pictures I could, and posting it on a nonpolitical forum as a running thread, just to humanize the people and keep them in the public eye. I kept my personal views out of that thread because it was about them, not me. My views were in other threads all over that forum, but not there.

I received a message from one of the soldier's friends, grateful that he was being remembered in that way. I realized how easy it is for us - people who don't know these families - to lose track of that, even as we are trying to make them more human. And I realized that for those who are truly connected to them, out of a sense of longing they are searching for some connection, and often that means searching online for references to them. For us, it's a way to score a political point. For them, it's their child you are writing about. I am glad that when I received the note from the one soldier's friend, I had nothing to be ashamed of in my writing about them.

"they can beat him and slather his body with his own waste, they can shove sticks into his rectum, they can rape him, and they can murder him. They can hand him over to representatives of another government and have him whisked away to some far-flung dungeon where "enhanced interrogation" has an even darker and more savage definition."

- a former army sgt

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. I've been writing about dead and wounded American soldiers for going on ten years now
...and I am all too aware of the concerns you raise. I've corresponded with dozens of families of soldiers. Some preferred I leave their loved ones out of my writing, and I did as they asked. Most, however, were grateful that someone was talkinbg about the war and the sacrifices their loved ones made.

If the peoiple don't hear about war, death and lost soldiers, they tend to forget about all of it. You know that full well. The Iraq war was news item #22 on the nightly broadcasts until Cindy Sheehan sat down in the mud in Texas and refused to move.

I understand and appreciate your concerns, but somebody has to speak for those people, and for the rest of us, because we're all affected by this. If nobody talks about this stuff, it gets swept aside. I have nothing to be ashamed of, either.

Thank you very much for your service, sir.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. This is not "talking about the war and the sacrifices" they made.
This is GRAPHICALLY inserting images of their son being abused, humiliated and raped into their heads. That is a heartless thing to do, to people who are already having their hearts slowly ripped out.

It goes far beyond describing what happened to them in battle, it goes beyond describing sacrifices they or their family made. And it goes beyond discussing policy with their son as an example. It's written in a way that is just cruel to the family on a personal level. "Someone has to speak for these people" - but not in that way.

I've spent some time with Cindy, I was on that week-long walk on the gulf coast with the IVAW, VFP, and hurricane survivors. I don't believe even she would appreciate that scene being written about Casey.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. It is heartless
And sometimes, it is necessary.

I never said said I enjoyed my job. I'm not supposed to. But that doesn't make it any less necessary.

If you were in Bergdahl's hole - not his family's hole, but his hole - you'd probably appreciate it if I made a graphic description of your plight, if it helped draw attention to your situation, which would help get you out.

The alternative is to ignore you, which means you stay put indefinitely, because everyone would forget about you. And you know they would. People ALWAYS forget the soldier's plight unless they get their nose rubbed in it.

Like I said, I sleep fine at night.

Nobody cares about Bowe Bergdahl except his family, the State Dept. people seeking his release, and the people who read my stuff and remember he's there at all.

Sir.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Please do not pretend you wrote that on behalf of his parents.
They have from the start requested not to have him in the media. If you'd cared about him as an individual to do even a small amount of reading about him and his family, you would know this, and you would honor it - as you claim you do. They haven't asked for wider media attention - they have requested exactly the opposite.

If you need a mother to tell you she would not appreciate reading graphic descriptions of her child being raped you have lost a piece of your humanity.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Goes with the territory
:hi: Bye. :hi:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. What ever they, who ever they are, are doing really don't matter as much anymore
In the brave new world we have become desensitized more and more. The other consequence we are also becoming more brave because of it. Yea, it all sounds like circles but more and more in the dog-eat-dog my-god-beats-your-god I-have-mine-and-screw-you world rationality is taking the back seat. Really thinking about it though, how and could others act sane when the whole world around them seems so much the other way



Btw, pretty sure that torture thing has been going on for more than a couple of centuries now so i wouldn't expect it ending too soon at any rate :-(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mgc1961 Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. I'm afraid that kid's a goner.
After they torture him, he'll be killed so that he can't personally report the how, when, and where of his torment.

Sounds familiar, huh?
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I don't see how it would help them to torture him.
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mgc1961 Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I think it's about revenge.
The bonus for them is the victim can't testify for himself.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. THIS may be the most important and lasting example of why I hate those neocon motherfuckers.
They "support our troops"....yeah right. We've known this could happen and now it has. See what their torture has done.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:44 PM
Original message
KICK for this young man...
and heaps of RAGE for the word parsers
and hair-splitters of the previous administration
that claimed it was OK for us to torture people
because they weren't "soldiers" and just
enemy combatants.
As if it makes it OK to torture people by
"classification".

:puke:
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. KandR.
Thank you, Will. I'm so afraid that they will 'do unto others'...After what the US has done under *, and it hasn't stopped....I fear for this young soldier. At this very moment...what is happening to him? We know what's happening to those under the 'care' of our government.


peace~
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Rec
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. .
K&R.
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PainPerdu Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
33.  Sorry,but the whole thing seems fishy to me
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 01:59 PM by PainPerdu
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I was wondering about certain aspects of this story myself.
And have been waiting for someone to say what you just did.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Why?
Please expound. Do you think that this young man was STUPID enough to desert in the middle of fucking nowhere and no ride home?
Please please explain this to me because I have heard this and didn't realize ANYONE was that insane to think that someone was really that stupid?
You do know there are no civilian flights, no trains, no boats and no planes that would have been available to take this young man somewhere else without a passport at the very least? Provided he could make it to another friendly country?
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PainPerdu Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. You've answered your own question.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I believe the question was to you, basically. What is your answer?
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 11:15 PM by NoSheep
edited to say I'm wondering if I missed your point is all.
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. K & R
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. i cannot imagine being in this poor souls shoes....it makes me long even more for justice
of cheney/bu$h*
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. I wonder if Yoo or Cheney or any of those other pro-torture, chickenhawk BASTARDS would stand up.
Yeah, come on...it's not torture, and it's useful. You said so, loud and often. Take Bergdahl's place, one of you unutterable wastes of skin. Surely the Taliban would trade.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
45. Chickens, roost, etc.
Funny that there's outrage over this but not over torturing possibly innocent people. But they're not racist, really!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. no shit Will.... over the green monster again
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. This will probably not be popular but I think this is bullshit
If I'm understanding what you wrote correctly, that this poor kid is probably going to have his head hacked off and a video of it posted on the internet is somehow justified because of the US torture program under that douchbag bush.

Well, bullshit.

He would be facing the exact same fate even if no torture program had ever existed. I don't buy into this - We have no moral grounds to object or be outraged because the US tortured - line of crap. I never tortured anyone. I never authorized the torture of anyone. I never voted for anyone that authorized the torture of anyone. I've have done everything I can think of and have the means to do, to get those that did torture/authorize torture prosecuted for war crimes since I first heard about it.

I am hoping they decide to release him unharmed in an effort to get public opinion behind them rather then have another infidel beheading on the internet but... if they don't, I am going to be outraged, I am going to call it a barbaric act no different then bushs torture program but I will not say it is justified.

Now... go ahead and let my beating begin.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. "but I will not say it is justified"
Mmmm...neither would (or did) I.

:hi:
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Well...
Your overall point seems to be that this kid would not need to be afraid if the US had not tortured anyone and that is simply not true. He would be in the exact same position.

"They could do this whether or not the United States had engaged in similar practices, but because we did these things, they can do these things and still claim the moral high ground. Why not? It was the United States government under the administration of George W. Bush who plowed that high ground into the gutter. Everyone stands the same height when they're face-down in the sewer."

Still claim the moral high ground? I think not, I also think that sounds like because the US did it you consider them justified in doing it as well... least thats how I read it. If it is not, please clarify.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
52. The Taliban has a totally different motivation
To force America to feel for this young man, then horrify and anger us by brutally murdering him.

He has no information that they care about or could even use. They aren't bright enough to use it. They operate on a purely visceral level.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. underestimating the enemy
often goes hand in hand with our own dehumanization of the enemy, often a precursor of (or companion to) racism.

They are a bunch of shitheads and that racism and sexism is a critical part of their identity. But I also recognize that it bites us in the ass to fall into the trap of believing that they so subhuman that they are incapable of intelligent thought or tactics.
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