"What Do You Call A Black Man At Harvard?" (Jack and Jill Politics)

[AspenRose]

"What Do You Call A Black Man At Harvard?

Years ago, the answer to this question would be the n-word. Today its Esquire, Doctor, Congressman, Professor or President. Unfortunately, the police in Cambridge did not receive that memo before they arrested Harvard Professor, Skip Gates, as he was treated as just another n-word by the police.

Cambridge is supposed to be (sic) liberal city, full of progressive intellectuals who look down on antiquated philosophies, such as racism. Scholars from all sorts of backgrounds come to Cambridge to study and teach at Harvard and MIT. The idea of Cambridge as a liberal, tolerant, progressive city stands in sharp contrast to the racial profiling that occurs there everyday, which was exposed by Gates’ arrest.

What does it say about America if racial profiling occurs in one of its most progressive, racially tolerant cities?

Black people all across the country are constantly forced to show their ID’s to police to justify their presence and prove they’re not criminals. Black people are racially profiled in predominantly black neighborhoods as possible drug dealers or gang bangers and in white neighborhoods as possible thieves who don’t belong in those communities."

MUCH more at:

http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/07/what-do-you-call-a-black-man-at-harvard/

[ananda]

1. Idiot racist troglodytes gravitate to the police force...

... everywhere.

The liberal academics remain in the rarefied ether
of their ivory towers.

[AspenRose]

2. What I find heartening about the article

is that she hits upon class as well as race, encouraging upper-class, well-educated blacks to use their positions to fight against the racial profiling that others in the black community are subjected to on a regular basis (which is exactly what Dr. Gates plans to do). Black academics and those in the upper-middle classes still experience profiling, but not to the degree that others in the black community do.

It's also interesting to hear a black police officer's take on racial profiling, for a change.

[MBS]

3. I keep thinking about the woman who called. .

She's even worse than the clueless policeman, and somehow seems to be getting off the hook (or at least protected so far by anonymity)
Gates is a nice guy, polite and civil, in his MO-- so if he got enraged, there is no doubt in my mind that he had every reason to be.

[AspenRose]

4. We know who she is.

"Cambridge police say they responded to the well-maintained two-story home near campus after a woman reported seeing "two black males with backpacks on the porch," with one "wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."

The woman, Lucia Whalen, is the circulation and fundraising manager at Harvard Magazine, a news and alumni magazine affiliated with the school. The magazine's offices are down the street from Gates' home."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010985/ns/us_news-race_an

[Buzz Clik]

8. The woman's only error was not recognizing her neighbor. Calling in a break-in is not a bad thing.

[vincent_vega_lives]

10. not to mention

the driver from the car service was helping him break in.

[Buzz Clik]

11. I would like to think my neighbors would be looking out for my property in my absence.

I'd also like to think the cops will recognize their error quickly when it is abundantly clear that they screwed up.

[vincent_vega_lives]

16. I dont think they did screw up

until they arrested the guy. Sounds like he was being an asshole. Not sure why Gates would think that a typical white guy can act like an asshole to a cop and not get a hastle. But cuffing him was not warrented once his identity was established.

Plenty of white folk get arrested for disorderly conduct.

[Buzz Clik]

19. From what I've heard, the cop screwed up:

1. Cop comes to the door and asks Gates to come outside. Gates refuses because the cop has not explained the situation.
2. Cop explains that a neighbor reported a break-in.
3. Gates explains that he is the legal occupant of the home.
4. Cop demands identification.
5. Gates asks the cop to wait while he gets his i.d. Cop follows Gates into his home while Gates produces his Harvard i.d. and his driver's license showing clearly that he lives at the address where they are both standing.

It should have ended right there. I don't care what sort of names Gates called the cop or how pissed off Gates was. It was over. But, the cop extended the conversation and brought another cop in on it. The Harvard police arrive and identify Gates. Eventually, the cop lures Gates out of his house where he is arrested for being a public nuisance.

If the cop would have simply said, "Oh crap. You do live here. I am so sorry," then it would have ended. Gates would have nothing to talk about, and the cop would have gone the extra yard by not being provoked.

Gates may have gone nuts, but the cop gets a big F for his efforts.

[AspenRose]

23. How many thieves break into the front of a house with luggage on the front step?

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Actually, quite a few. One of the easiest ways to carry out loot is

to grab a couple suitcases out of the closet. That way, the burglar is not carrying anything as he's casing the target, it reduces the chances of accidentally leaving any of his own property at the scene which may help identify him, and if he gets out clean he's just a guy with a couple suitcases in his back seat.

OTOH, that would bolster the argument that just came back from a trip, since burglars don't generally carry out bags full of dirty laundry.

[AspenRose]

29. And a car waiting out front in plain view, too?

A limo, no less? Come on....

[snooper2]

33. you must have never watched "To catch a Thief"

:)

[ismnotwasm]

34. Really?

Facinating. And you get your information from, where?

[Fire1]

36. The sitcom and movie channel. LOL!!! n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

81. You want me to make unverifiable claims about my checkered past,

or simply suggest watching the 'It Takes a Thief' series?

[Lilyeye]

64. in BROAD daylight.

[vincent_vega_lives]

84. There have been a rash of break-ins in my neighborhood lately

during the hours when working people are most likely not to be home.

During the WEEKDAY. Last I heard it was daylight then.

[vincent_vega_lives]

9. She should thank her

I would hope my own neighbors would be so vigilant.

[emilyg]

65. I was. Prevented a robbery next door to me.

[ColbertWatcher]

51. Gee, I wonder where those cops received their training? n/t

[vincent_vega_lives]

85. Ironically

The officer involved teaches how to avoid racial profiling to police cadets.

Friends and fellow officers — black and white — say Sgt. James Crowley, who was hand-picked by a black police commissioner to teach recruits about avoiding racial profiling, is calm and reliable.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer

[KittyWampus]

5. Great article and I read the comments too. Highly recommended reading.

[izquierdista]

6. Central Square

Cambridge is not all Harvard and MIT. In between lies Central Square, which when I was going to school in Cambridge seemed to be a typical working class neighborhood, the kind that have the typical cops with the typical blue collar prejudices.

What does it say? It says that no matter how rich or academic or poor the neighborhood, they will be patrolled by cops who are recruited, trained, promoted, and disciplined by a racist, fascist, paramilitary mindset. American cops are as uniform as McDonalds hamburgers from one end of the country to the other. They aggressively enFORCE the letter of the law against the public, which they are told is the enemy. They learn tactics of enFORCEment, as they are usually too dumb or it is too complicated to teach them finesse.

It is ironic that they engage in profiling, when they are much more homogeneous in their attitudes and behaviors than any of the groups they profile.

[AspenRose]

12. One thing you hit on was mentioned in the article

"They learn tactics of enFORCEment, as they are usually too dumb or it is too complicated to teach them finesse."

What the black cops said regarding racial profiling:

"I talked to Black Cambridge cop about racial profiling in Cambridge recently. He told me that while all police officers in Cambridge racially profile, black officers were smarter about it. He elaborated saying that while black officers check clothes, age, and demeanor of men while profiling African Americans, white officers were “stupid about it” and simply profiled all African Americans, without any regard to the rest of their appearance. This explains why a well groomed, 60-year-old man wearing a blazer and glasses would get the same treatment as a young black man with baggy pants and a doo-rag in Cambridge."



It's easier to treat all blacks the same way...as the enemy...and use force...than to actually stop, observe and THINK. I don't know if it's stupidity or laziness....or that they just don't give a damn.

[izquierdista]

21. I should rephrase that

As your post points out, you can teach finesse, but you can't force people to use it. Just as you can give people facts, but you can't make them THINK.

[BolivarianHero]

22. Makes sense that a Black cop would be better at this job than his White counterparts...

Given the racism that is endemic among police forces in the United States, it's quite logical that only the most talented and ambitious go-getters would be able to stomach being Black cops.

[imdjh]

40. What an idiotic remark.

[BolivarianHero]

68. How is this remark idiotic?

I'm simply acknowledging the pervasive racism of America's police forces, as has been proven by recent racialist police organisations uncovered in Philadelphia (although that's just the tip of the iceberg and just the most recent dark secret). Because of this racism, only African-Americans who are dedicated and who are serious about the grave responsibilities implicated by a career in law enforcement would stand a change in such a hostile environment. Whites, conversely, do not have to face this hostile environment, making White dumb asses who just want to be cops so that they can get a gun and shoot shit have a better chance at making it than Black cops in a similar situation.

[imdjh]

71. Well at least you're consistent. nt

[Karenina]

72. And CORRECT.

;-)

[imdjh]

13. Horse shit. Not revolutionary, not insightful, perhaps dramatic but still horse shit.

"American cops are as uniform as McDonalds hamburgers from one end of the country to the other. "

You can't support this claim.

[1monster]

24. Check out the videos on this page.... It happens far more often than you think.

edited to add link

http://news.aol.com/article/video-cameras-change-police-habits/581338?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl4|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fvideo-cameras-change-police-habits%2F581338

Watch the young woman arrested for "attacking" a police officer. She was at the check out counter when the cop grabbed her from behind, stuck a gun in her neck and punched her in the face.

But SHE "attacked" him. :sarcasm:

Then there is the video of the 250 pound off duty policeman beating the heck out of a tiny bartender because she wouldn't sell him any more alcohol.

Several other vides on the page.

If cops don't want a bum rap, they have to drive these kinds of officers out of the law enforcement business.

Because, until they do, they are tainted with the same brush.

So says a cop's daughter.

[imdjh]

27. No, it doesn't happen more often than I think, and that's not relevant to my previous post.

The other poster claimed that police officers were as alike as McDonald's hamburgers.

There are 836,787 law enforcement officers in the US as of 2004. 1/100th of 1% would be 83 of these officers. Can you come up with 83 incidents such as the Officer Lopez incident? Probably not. Can you come up with 83 cases of misconduct? Probably, perhaps with ease. But the point is that the police are not "all" or even significantly like Officer Lopez.

[1monster]

38. And the only reason you know about the bad ones is that they were caught on video.

Seen too much of the bad guys who are never brought to account on it to agree with you.

You want the good cops to be recognizes as such? Then stop covering for the bad guys. Drum them out of the force.

[imdjh]

39. So you think the majority of cops are bad? Or perhaps 10%? What is your estimate?

Or do you simply like to complain about nebulous acts and numbers? When you call the police because you are terrified, do you ask them to send a good cop?

Sorry, but I'm not going to accept a perception not based in fact.

[1monster]

57. I've known a lot of cops. The sheriff of the county was my neighbor for sixteen years.

He was a terrific neighbor. But he had the same mindset as my father and almost every other cop I've ever met.

Okay, probably not ALL cops have that mind set. Not all cops who have that mind set are bad cops. They can overcome their biases.

That was not my point.

Let me say it once again, then I'm through with you.

As long as good cops cover for bad cops and don't drum them out of the business, they are tarred with the same brush.

Or to put it another way:

If you lie down with dogs, you'll wake up with fleas.

If I watch someone commit a crime, then I help that person cover up the crime, I'm an accessory to a crime and also guilty of a conspiracy to cover up that crime and obstruct justice.

The same rules and laws should be applied to law enforcement officers as do to the rest of the citizenry.

[Buzz Clik]

7. One cop acted like a '60s pig. The charges were dropped.

[vincent_vega_lives]

14. comments for what its worth

The arresting officer, Crowley, has a reputation in Cambridge for racially profiling and harassing African Americans.

Interesting, wonder what the source of this is? None given.

If an elderly white man was struggling with the door to his house as Gates was, one might think his neighbors would probably offer to help him or at least find out what was going on, rather than calling 911 to report a possible break in..

Perhaps. No mention of the younger driver of the car service who was reportedly assisting Prof. Gates break into his house.

The fact that Gates had to show his ID to prove that he lived in his own house and was not, in fact a criminal who was robbing it, is bad enough...If a 60 year old white man came to the door voluntarily I doubt he would be asked to show ID to prove he lived there.

Once the officer has a report of a crime, it would be mandatory for the officer to establish the identity of the individual in the home, regardles of race or age. it was also reported that he refused to show his drivers licence, and chose to show his Harvard ID, why? I can only guess.

Should Gates been arrested for "disorderly conduct"? No. overreaction by cop. Was it purely racial? Certainly open to debate.

[AspenRose]

17. This has already been mentioned in several other threads (with links provided), but

Dr. Gates showed both forms of ID WHILE IN HIS HOUSE. That should have been the end of it, and it wasn't. It escalated when Dr. Gates asked for the cop's name and badge number and the cop refused to give it.

And the other person with him was mentioned by both the woman witness (who thought he was wearing a backpack) and in Dr. Gates' official statement provided through his attorney (where he was identified as the driver).

Also, it would have been difficult for Dr. Gates to yell at the officer, since he had a respiratory infection he contracted while in China, which is where he had been prior to this incident.

Those things aren't mentioned in this article, but have been referenced from news sources ad nauseam over the past day in other threads.

If "being an asshole" means being visibly upset after providing the police with proper forms of identification IN MY OWN HOME yet still being questioned, and not being provided id from the cop doing the questioning after repeated requests, then I would probably be an "asshole" too.

[Buzz Clik]

20. From my perspective, it doesn't matter if it were racial. It was wrong.

I've seen cops provoke kids in the same way.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. I expect there was no mention of the driver because, by the time the

cop got there he was gone. He had no reason to stick around once Gates got inside.

Cop thought he was going to get a good bust, and let his disappointment come through in his aggression toward Gates.

[pinto]

15. Interesting article.

Thanks.

[imdjh]

18. I can see the cop asking for ID and even asking to come inside.

I don't recall the article saying that the officer asked to come inside, but I would have thought that he would.

Scenario: Someone reports seeing two white males breaking into the rear of my dad's house. The cop comes to the door, and my distinguished looking white male elderly father answers the door. Dad assures the police officer that it's his house and there is nothing wrong, the door was simply stuck and my nephew was helping him open it.

I want the cop to make sure that my dad is telling the truth, that everything is really OK. This is Florida. Weird stuff happens here. Two meth heads could be holding my mother in the bedroom with a gun to her head.

Where the Cambridge story becomes a story is in the citizen's response to the police officer. I don't think a person should be arrested for asking for identification information on the police officer or even for objecting to being asked for ID. I think that the officer must have failed to give the right and good reason for wanting to make sure that everything is OK. It would be nice if the whole thing were on tape, but it isn't.

[slackmaster]

28. I call it "a good start"

:kick:

[marmar]

30. I see the racism apologists have found this thread too.....

Sad.

[Gator_Matt]

31. If I screamed and went hysterical toward a cop with neighbors watching...

I might get arrested too. What do you expect to happen? That's not how you treat the police. They're only there because they want to make sure the home was safe. It was a misunderstanding that Gates blew out of proportion and turned into a fiasco.

If I had been Gates, I would've laughed it off and shown my driver's license. That would've been the end of the story. Instead he slanders the cop and immediately accuses him of racism while refusing to show his license.

I'm a liberal who voted for Obama, but even I have to roll my eyes at this. It's stories like this one that obscure cases of ACTUAL racism. It's a shame.

[marmar]

32. As I said before, the racism apologists are out in force.....

.... and why did you feel the need to identify yourself as "a liberal who voted for Obama"?

[ismnotwasm]

35. No shit

I'm a little nauseas reading some of the comments.


I have a black friend who started an adult family home in a VERY affluent small city. Very few blacks. In order to start her business, she had to get a number of permits and permissions, just like anyone else would.

Her business went well, she was very successfully with a program she had developed for Alzheimer's patients.

Then, viola! Cops and the feds show up at her door because of "Increased water usage" They just figured she was a drug dealer growing hydroponic marijuana. All the permits and permissions were given by the city. They knew she had a business responsible for the care of the six adults, plus a certain number of employees, as well the fact that she and her husband lived in another part of the house. They knew, the cops knew, the feds knew.

To make a long story short, several other incidences of racial profiling had been going on in this community and she became part of a class action lawsuit that was settled out of court.

The sad thing? These incidences aren't uncommon. They're not an anomoly. It happens every day.

[AspenRose]

47. Also notice the disinformation in the post throughout.

Either they didn't read any of the news reports or attorney's statement (and it shows), or they are purposefully pulling stuff out of their ass.

I'm noticing the talking point du jour regarding this incident is that he was "uncooperative."

[fascisthunter]

75. no shit

[SteelPenguin]

42. You know what I thought of when I heard this story?

How a friend of mine, lily white blond guy, got locked out of his apartment, and had to bust down the door because the super wasn't answering his phone for four hours. Finally he gave up went back to his apartment and kicked the door down. Someone saw him, and called the cops. They showed up, he told them what happened, showed them his license, and they told him to call a locksmith next time and reamed him out for kicking down his own door for about 15 minutes. He stood there said "yes officer, sorry officer" alot and then they left.

Someone saw a couple of guys breaking down a door. They didn't know who they were. Just two guys breaking down a door. Maybe it didn't seem that bad and THAT person was racist for calling it in. That seems probably somewhat likely.

The cops though get a call that two guys are breaking into a house in cambridge. What are they supposed to do, not show up? They get there and two men, fitting the description in their report are there. They ask for identification. If Gates had just shown his license it would have ended. He didn't though. He refused to show identification and then went ballistic.

What the hell were the cops supposed to do. They get a report of a break in, show up, and the people there refuse to provide ID and then verbally harrass them.

If I ever have to break into my house, and someone sees it happen, I'd be happy that they call the cops. I'd be happy the cops show up. It'd make me feel that if someone bad actually happened that I might be covered in some way. i'd show my ID and that would be the end of it.

I absolutely agree that stories like this obscure the ACTUAL cases of racism, and give ignorant people more excuses to think they're all Bullshit.

It astounds me how kneejerk some people around here are to assume the worst in every case, even when the evidence doesn't really point to it.

[AspenRose]

48. Read up on what really happened instead of hearsay, please.

He did show id. When the police asked for it. College id AND driver's license. While in his house. They called university police, who verified Gates' id.

That should have been the end of it.

[hiphopnation]

61. what difference does it make who you voted for in the context of this discussion? n/t

[JTFrog]

88. He just wanted to let us know that some of his best friends were black...

The apologists are crawling all over this place.

[Flaneur]

67. Yelling at a police officer is not a crime.

Sad that you are so cowed by authority that you expect to get arrested for being impolite.

[AngryOldDem]

87. I've seen it happen.

And during the arrest, the cop was way more "impolite" toward the person being cuffed. We were trying to get this guy to leave our property -- we had dealt with him before and knew he was a hothead asshole -- but still the cop, by his attitude, words, and actions unnecessarily escalated an already tense situation. By the time they left with the guy I was amazed that they didn't have to call for backup. We all just sort of shook our heads -- more at the cop than at the guy he took away.

Sorry, but I'm not a great fan of most of the police officers I have come across during my time at my job. I respect their authority because I have to, but that respect does not extend to their king-sized egos.

[vincent_vega_lives]

86. Sounds like he immediately went on the defensive

When a person's adrenaline gets going it can make him do irrational things. Like refuse to comply with a police officer's requests.

This immediately gets an officer's attention, and he begins to think defensively. Why is this person behaving this way? He may have something to hide...ect.

It typically escalates from there.

[Skip Intro]

41. Anyone who doesn't see it like you do is labeled an apologist for racism?

sad

[marmar]

58. Denial is even sadder.

nt

[Skip Intro]

63. .

:eyes:

[AspenRose]

50. Some are that. Some are law enforcement apologists, too.

You know, the ones who feel cops NEVER make a mistake (and shouldn't have to apologize if they HAVE made one) and that their motives are ALWAYS pure.

[ismnotwasm]

37. White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

Thought I'd brush off this part of Peggy McIntosh's essay;



Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in
my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color
privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other
factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and
acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of
work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to
mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can
afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely
represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my
color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their
race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the
only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket
and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find
someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the
appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical
protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and
workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute
these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's
majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without
being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled
out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's
magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than
isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize
her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program
centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues
disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me
more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

http://www.case.edu/president/aaction/UnpackingTheKnapsack.pdf

And here's another great essay by Robert Jensen
WHITE PRIVILEGE SHAPES THE U.S.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whiteprivilege.htm

[ellacott]

45. Thank for this post

I have been looking for for some time. I first saw it posted here.

The apologists are pretty amazing. I don't doubt that Prof. Gates exchanged words with the officer but to characterize as some have on this board is laughable. These people have probably never heard of Prof. Gates. He was in his home and every right to say what he felt like and the officers couldn't do anything. They had to get him outside so they could manufacture a charge of public indecency.

[AspenRose]

49. I suspect most of them either have not read the news reports and attorney statement

And therefore have no idea what really happened, so they are going by hearsay....or....

they know EXACTLY what happened and want to spread disinformation.

[ellacott]

52. I'm finding that many people are living in denial regarding racism

It's been very surprising to read so much of it on this board. Chris Matthews was on Hardball with Michael Eric Dyson and Clarence Page. Chris was having the hardest time believing that the officer was acting out of a racial prejudice. He insisted also that Prof. Gates did yell and cause a disruption and refused to show ID. I was a little mad that neither Dyson or Clarence Page had read the police report.

I see the same type of denial that Chris exhibited on this board.

[BlooInBloo]

55. Denial is the primary way of perpetuating it, of course.

[ellacott]

56. True

[dgibby]

60. Chris appeared VERY uncomfortable with that segment.

Used his best Pat Buchanan impersonation, ie, talking fast, loudly, interrupting, talking over the guests, not letting them respond with their own take on the issue. I felt he used two prominent, well-respected Black men to justify his position that Dr. Gates had caused the problem, and that the police acted correctly. Definitely NOT Tweety's best moment.

[ellacott]

66. No, it wasn't his best moment

I think he revealed a lot about himself with that segment. He even gives Tom Delay more deference than he gave to Dyson and Page.

[Caliman73]

78. I think that it is a tiny bit different than denial.

As you can see from the posts regarding White Privilege, it isn't something that many people have to ever think about. They do not need to defend their psyche. They are perfectly okay because they are living in the "norm". They simply cannot understand why Blacks, Asians, and Latinos don't accept society as they see it. It isn't necessarily Denial, if you haven't ever really been exposed to the problem. If a White person gets pulled over in a Rolls, they are pretty much thinking, "Damn, I must have been speeding". If a Black person gets pulled over in a Rolls, you can probably bet that the person is saying, "Damn, what the hell did I do? They might think I stole this car". Many White people never have to consider race ever. For those who see it and understand the injustices experienced by non-whites, it is more difficult, because they have to make choices.

I think you are right about Matthews regarding denial, but I would suspect that many on the forum don't even see the inherent advantages they have just being White.

[AspenRose]

46. I cannot wait to see what Tim Wise will have to say about this.

Between this and the Philly pool kids, you know he'll say SOMETHING....

[ellacott]

53. Yes, I'm looking forward to that also.

[vincent_vega_lives]

83. This could be said of any

ethnic majority in any country in the world.

[FatDave]

43. Nobody knows exactly what went on here except those who were on the scene.

And their stories differ. There's what the cops say happened and what the professor's lawyer says happened. Now, having had many bad experiences with police over the years, maybe I'm more inclined to believe the professor's side, but none of us know. If I had to guess, I'd say probably both the cop and the professor got into a dick-waving contest and the cop eventually abused his authority. But we just don't know.

I guess what I'm saying is it's a known unknown. :hide:

[hiphopnation]

62. so conceded

but cops have a documented history of twisting the truth in attempts to bolster their own versions of incidents. what is the motive for Gates to twist the truth here?

[FatDave]

69. Oh, you don't have to tell me about cops and the truth.

But Gates's motivation to twist the truth could be to not look like an asshole. It's possible that he did overreact and accuse the cops of being racist when they were just showing up to check on a breaking and entering call.

But again, it's just as likely that the cops showed up and decided to act like TV tough guys. Maybe likelier. Who knows? Not me. It's all he-said/he-said.

[hiphopnation]

70. read this and tell me if these are the words and actions

of someone who thinks he overracted or is trying to save face....

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks

[FatDave]

73. I have no idea.

Because I wasn't there. That's my whole point. Maybe he's glossing over parts. You've never heard of somebody telling a story but leaving out the parts that make them look bad? I'm not saying he is doing that, but you seem to be saying he isn't, and we simply don't know.

All we know is that the cop's story and the professor's story don't match up. One or both of them are not being completely honest. We don't know who yet. We shouldn't assume it's the cop just because he's a cop any more than we should assume it's Gates because he's black. Nor should we assume it's not gates because he's a professor.

My whole point in my original statement is that none of us know what happened, and it's ridiculous to take sides and fight over it.

[hiphopnation]

74. We shouldn't assume it's the cop just because he's a cop any more than we should assume it's Gates

There shouldn't be poverty, people shouldn't rape and abuse women, people shouldn't discriminate against gays, et cetera, et cetera

None of these things SHOULD happen, but they do. And even-keeled and objective as I would like to be (try to be) which side of the story is more deserving of speculation and distrust: the professor and scholar with a wide range of honors or the cops with well-documented history of racial profiling?

:shrug:

on edit:

here are the words of someone who believes gates is more deserving of speculation, someone going off of the same information I am (key words "according to the police report"):

2. I think Gates was an a$$hole in this incident because, according to the police report, he started making angry accusations of racism when there was no obvious racism. He acted like an arrogant and pushy bigshot rather than like a gentleman and a scholar. There's a difference between demanding respect and demanding obsequiousness (something, ironically enough, that cops often need to be reminded of too) and Gates crossed that line. I like to think that if I was a cop I would have handled it much better, but I probably still would have gone away from the encounter thinking 'what an asshole'.

[Karenina]

77. White is right... "no obvious racism."

Uppity NEGRO. HOW DARE HE get irritated after showing his ID and demand MINE. I'll show HIM who's BOSS around here!!!

[slampoet]

44. Boston Metro area has a deep history of race problems, Cambridge is no exception.

[fascisthunter]

76. oh yeasss.... I remember how segregated it used to be

Boston is changing, but racism is still being passed down from one knucklehead generation to the next.

[BlooInBloo]

54. Nice article.

[backscatter712]

59. That's pigs for you.

It should have ended after Gates presented his license, but no, they arrested him anyways.

Police are fucking subhuman these days.

[jillan]

79. Pigs - definitely. Unfortunately so many of them are on a power trip.

[Liberal_in_LA]

80. good article. kick

[vincent_vega_lives]

82. couple years ago

While driving to an appointment I missed a turn into the place I needed to get to. I was running late so I whipped a quick U-Turn on a busy street...right in front of a local cop. Too late, he pulled me over, got out of his cruiser and proceeded to scream at me.

I am convinced he would arrested me on the spot if I had not been overly cooperative. Despite my demeanor he gave me three tickets...lane violations, u-turn, and lack of seatbelt (which I had unbuckled IN FRONT OF HIM to get my wallet out), totaling $150 in violations. I'm sure he would have issued me more violations if he could have.

Now if I was a minority I probably would have suspected racial profiling except that when the cop got out of his cruiser I saw him brushing french fries and soda pop off his uniform. When he spun around to pull me over, his lunch dumped into his lap.

If I had not seen this I would have never known the reason for his agitation.