Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Who Caused the Economic Crisis?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:22 AM
Original message
Who Caused the Economic Crisis?
Who caused the economic crisis?
Economist Simon Johnson and "Obamanomics" author John Talbott say there's plenty of blame to go around
By Simon Johnson and John Talbott

Editor's note: This is the first installment in a three-part conversation between Johnson and Talbott. Read Part 2 on Thursday and the conclusion on Friday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jul. 22, 2009 |

John R. Talbott is a former investment banker with Goldman Sachs and the author of "The 86 Biggest Lies on Wall Street," "Contagion," "Obamanomics," and "The Coming Crash in the Housing Market." His books predicted the housing market crash, the financial crisis and the election of Barack Obama when Obama was still a little-known underdog. Talbott is currently engaged in trying to build what he calls "a grass-roots movement of ordinary Americans who want to take back the government from lobbyists and corporate interests." Anyone interested in learning more can e-mail him at johntalbs (at) hotmail (dot) com.

Simon Johnson, the former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), is the cofounder of BaselineScenario.com, a Web site tracking the ongoing financial crisis. He is also the Ronald A. Kurtz professor of entrepreneurship at the MIT Sloan School of Management, a member of the Congressional Budget Office's Council of Economic Advisers and a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, D.C. He is one of the most visible public commentators on the ongoing financial crisis and its causes and on what role the government and regulatory policy will play in moving the economy forward.

From June to July of 2009, Talbott and Johnson held an e-mail conversation on the following topic:

"The economic crisis: Who caused it? Was it preventable? Was criminal activity involved in bringing it about? And is it over?"

The exchange below is the first of three sets of e-mails. The second pair will be published Thursday, and the final pair will appear Friday.

From: John Talbott
To: Simon Johnson
Subject: A Vast Criminal Enterprise

Simon,

I believe economists are doing a very poor job of explaining to the American people who and what caused the current economic crisis. I think the reasons for this are threefold.

One: Economists and media pundits -- themselves mostly gentlemanly elites anxious to please corporate America -- are slow to make the accusation that what happened here was truly criminal, and so miss the real story. The American people understand that when a group of bankers shuffle some paper unproductively and get away with hundreds of billions of dollars in bonuses, yet cause a loss of $40 trillion in global wealth and cause approximately 100 million people to become unemployed worldwide, there is only one word to describe it: criminal. We don't have to argue about whether their actions were technically illegal or violated existing statutes, as in this conspiracy the crooks were writing their own regulations and legislation through their control of the government through lobbying.

Two: There has been no criminal investigation to date, so evidence supporting criminality has not been uncovered -- no one is looking for it. Liberals hate to think that Obama, led by Geithner and Summers, is part of a grand cover-up scheme, but that is exactly what is going on. How else can you explain the lack of criminal investigations? Why isn't the FBI breaking down the doors of the commercial and investment banks and grabbing computers so as to preserve incendiary e-mails that will most definitely implicate executives? Why are managements that caused this still in their jobs and still receiving bonuses? Are the bonuses paid to the folks at AIG that caused its collapse nothing more than hush money? How can the rating agencies still be in business? Why don't we make one arrest and lean on the bankster to see if he will fold like the cheap suit that he is and name other conspirators? The FBI spends more time investigating $2,000 drug buys than they have to date investigating the biggest heist in the history of the world: $40 trillion, that's trillion with a T, that's 40 million bags each containing $1 million.

The third reason that we have not had an easy-to-understand explanation from economists as to the cause of this mess: I think we're all trying to fit the facts as we know them into one simple story of causation. I believe there are actually three different storylines occurring contemporaneously, and all of them criminal. It is similar to what Winston Churchill said about trying to forecast Russia's next moves in 1939: "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma."

So what are these three criminal storylines? The first, and the smallest (if you can believe it) at approximately $10 trillion, is the housing crash and the mortgage meltdown. Totally criminal, as its primary cause was banksters stuffing worthless mortgage paper into CDOs and calling them AAA. Criminal at every level, as real estate agents were convincing their buyers to pay more, not less, to "earn" their fees through a winning bid, appraisers were offering non-independent and completely tainted appraisals, mortgage brokers were altering loan documents and changing income data to qualify buyers, bankers were paying rating agencies to call junk paper AAA, and principal investors like pension funds, insurance companies, and sovereign governments failed to perform even the minimum levels of due diligence demanded by their fiduciary duties.

More:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/07/22/economic_crisis_part_one/print.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nice.
Thanks for posting this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. I thought that before 1/20/09 it was Clinton's fault and after...
It is all Obama's fault.


Isn't that how it works?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Jackpot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. "I'm innocent (smirk). I was AWOL (smirk)." - xCommander AWOL (R)
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 09:31 AM by SpiralHawk
"This big stinking economic mess is all the fault of Clinton-Obama and the American people. I just happened to be AWOL during the critical parts of the uNfOlDinG cAtasTroPHe, so you (smirk) can't blame me and my Republicon Homelander Kronies. SMIRK."

- xCommander AWOL (R)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. There should be criminal investigations
But there aren't any being conducted.

Another of my disappointments with the present administration. Hell, even Bush investigated Enron....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fmlymninral Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. i think all elected officials
should have to dress like Nascar drivers with their sponsors listed on their clothes. Then we would know whose interest they are looking after.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kick
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 10:19 AM by redqueen
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. Criminal Masterminds
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Mostly the Pubs Fault...Bush was the Decider fpr 8 Years.....it points to HIM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not really, no.
A lot of the lowering of barriers that enabled this mess was done in the 90's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kid Dynamite Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. If Presidential policies were the ailment
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 10:58 AM by Kid Dynamite
wouldn't the solution simply be to reverse, undo and otherwise alter those policies? Something it seems we are in a good position to accomplish.

And yet that does not seem to be happening very expeditiously and to the extent that it is happening it doesn't seem to be doing anything except making the crisis worse.

Perhaps the prevailing "wisdom" needs to be questioned..

On the other hand if Presidential powers were so out of control that the damage they do could NOT be undone after the fact, then the problem at hand lies in the unchecked and irreversible power of the Presidency. Mean that instead of looking to the Executive to utilize its powers we should be looking for dramatic abdication of those powers
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. I confess. I caused it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. We all are. For not spending enough... Stimulate people!!!!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. This exchange makes several things crystal clear
One is the catch-22 that we can't depend on government to fix things because it is almost completely under the control of the corporations. But on the other hand, if we look outside government to private solutions, we are entirely at the mercy of corporate control, without even the fig leaf of government intervention. This is the real problem, for example, in the health care debate. Fucked if you do and triple-fucked if you don't.

It also illuminates the regular ramping-up of hysteria over "socialism." None of those people are really worried about government power or government oppression when it's directed against its own citizens. They only get nervous when there is a chance that the government might exert some sort of regulation of business or cut into business profits.

But what really scares me is the suit that David Bossie of Citizens United -- the guy who spent most of the 90's running around Arkansas trying to dig up dirt on Bill Clinton -- has brought in an attempt to get political advertising by corporations completely exempted from campaign finance regulations on free speech grounds. That one's due to go to the Supreme Court next fall, and if the court rules for Bossie by the predictable 5-4 margin, there will be no limits at all on corporate/network promotion of particular candidates and issues.

Add in the recent decision by a Florida court of appeals that Fox News has a First Amendment right to lie or distort the news in any way it chooses, and you have all the makings of a perfect storm for the 2010 and 2012 elections. Thanks to corporate personhood run amok, things are looking very bad for democracy just now.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ronald Reagan
He made it "cool" to be a greedheaded selfish asshole, and he and his puppeteers set in motion the systematic dismantling of the New Deal regulations that kept raptor capitalism at bay. The tough-guy myth and awe of market godliness became such a given that nobody for the last almost thirty years could be really taken serious on the political stage without salaaming to the god of the free market. Finally, in his need to be loved and his foolish trust of some mythical inherent fairplay in conservatives, Clinton allowed many of the serious controls to be retired, and Junior and his mob looted the remains of the empire.

Fuck Reagan. May his memory continue its downward appraisal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. ...
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. Greed, lax regulation, and irrational exuberance
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HOLOS Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Fed. Reserve Ponzi-Bubble-WallStreet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC