8 year old rape victim place in child protective custody because of "parent's attitude towards her"

[Liberal_in_LA]

Four boys sexually assaulted 8-year-old girl

By Monica Trevino
CNN

(CNN) -- Four boys ages 9 to 14 have been charged with sexual assaulting an 8-year old girl, police in Phoenix, Arizona, said Wednesday.

The girl was lured into a vacant storage shed by the suspects, who offered her chewing gum, police said at a news conference.

The girl was restrained while the boys -- ages 9, 10, 13 and 14 -- sexually assaulted her, police said of the July 16 incident.

All the suspects except for the 14-year-old live in the same apartment complex, according to Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill. The 14-year-old has been charged as an adult, Hill said.

Detectives said the girl was placed in the custody of Phoenix child protective services after the attack because of her parents' attitude toward her.

The girl and the boys charged are all from families that have come to the United States from the West African nation of Liberia, police said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/22/arizona.juvenile.sexual.assault/index.html

From another article:

The girl was taken into Child Protective Services custody after the attack after her parents disowned her. Hill said the parents blamed her for being victimized and bringing shame to the family.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/07/22/20090722sexassault0722-ON.html

[REP]

1. Too bad the parents can't be charged with being stupid abusive assholes

Can't they?

edited

[Triana]

22. Too bad they can't. Poor child - she needs better parents anyway but...

...what a hideous thing for a little one to have to endure - rape - then abandonment by parents for something she had no control over.

I cannot see how anyone can abandon their own child like that - for such reasons. It's beyond me. :cry:

[tblue37]

110. They should be able to be charged with child neglect and

child abandonment, though.

[smalll]

2. Didn't know the Liberians were like that too. We know about honor killings

being "traditional, not religious" for a certain swath of the world where a certain religion holds sway. As well as clitorectomies. We know about the Koranic commandment that virgins cannot be executed (so what happens to death-penalty girls the night before their last day in Iranian prisons, well, you do the math.)

But somehow, it's western civilization, Europeans in general and the United States in particular who are the real baddies of history, at least to many, even here. Funny, that. :shrug:

[Mythsaje]

9. Fucked up is fucked up, no matter whose ox is being gored...

That's one of the things that puts me at odds with a lot of people. I believe that "it's their culture" is a load of hooey.

[Odin2005]

15. "Cultures" that defend this crap don't deserve to exist, let along be "respected".

I DO NOT respect "cultures" that treat women as subhuman and human rights as expendable!

[Mythsaje]

16. Same here...

I mean, my ancestors used to raid their neighbors for cattle and others used to raid the other ancestors to steal everything that wasn't nailed down--including the wimmyn-folk.

[Odin2005]

20. Hell, my ancestors scared the shit out of every early medieval European.

A common prayer was "Oh Lord, save us from the fury of the Northmen!" Nuff said!

[Mythsaje]

49. Yeah, that's one of the sets of ancestors I'm referring to.

If all these cultures get a pass, does that mean we should build a longship and go pillaging the European coast? ;)

[Odin2005]

73. YARRR!!!

:evilgrin:

[slampoet]

37. "don't deserve to exist" You don't know WE AMERICANS are the ones who started Liberia's culture ???

[redqueen]

39. Oh FFS.

:eyes:

[gorfle]

41. what does FFS mean? n/t.

.

[Maru Kitteh]

44. Oh for fucks sake. A sentiment I share.

[snooper2]

42. wow...

just wow :eyes:

[CBGLuthier]

57. I don't think they do know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

Liberia did not exist as a nation state until it was colonized by freed slaves from the United States. These freed slaves formed an elite group in Liberian society, and, in 1847, formed a government based on that of the United States, naming their capital city after James Monroe, the fifth president of the United States.

[redqueen]

64. Uh, no. Thea vast majority are certainly aware of the country's history.

That does not, however, translate into it somehow being this country's fault that citizens there adopted this 'honor' dumbassery.

[CBGLuthier]

72. Fault?

Who said that and where? All that was said was their culture was started by US citizens. You read too much into statements of fact.

[redqueen]

75. Tangential statements of fact beg for inferences.

The implication wasn't oblique or vague.

If it was unintentional, it only speaks to a lack of communication skills on the part of the person throwing out random statements of fact which are hardly relevant to the conversation.

Nobody said the *country of Liberia* should never have existed... but rather that the kind of *culture* which allows females to be treated so poorly should not exist.

[slampoet]

65. EXACTLY. Just goes to show that all these rolling eyes indicate empty heads.

[Odin2005]

71. Descendants of slaves form only a minority of Liberia's population

The stupid, IT BURNS!

[slampoet]

80. But they are the traditional established power majority. Ask a Liberian.

"Following the dissolution of the Republican Party in 1876, the True Whig Party dominated the Liberian government until the 1980 coup."

[armyowalgreens]

91. So you blame their ignorant culture on Americans?...

I just want to make sure I'm getting this straight.

[armyowalgreens]

90. Regardless of it's origins, something went horribly wrong to create such a disturbing culture.

[Thothmes]

97. Are you open to the idea of wiping them out because their

culture does not deserve to exist..

[slampoet]

109. "First they came for the trade-unionists and i didn't speak up .....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

87. You can't generalize about all Liberians

Liberia has several indigenous tribes as well as the descendants of freed American slaves.

And it may not be their traditional culture, judging from the story. I've known of cases where middle-class American WASP families mistreated ONE of their children and were nice to the others.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

115. FWIW

In my work, I have contact with rape victims. The theme of families abandoning such victims is not one that is exclusive to that "swath of the world" you talk about. And non-Muslims practice FGM there, where it is not found in the most populous Muslim country in the world, Indonesia. Where in the Qur'an does it state that a virgin cannot be executed? I've read and studied it, and just did a quick search on the online translations, and don't find it. Please cite sura and verse.

[prayin4rain]

3. Disgusting. n/t

[bkkyosemite]

4. The parents are not ignorant assholes they are true abusers and need to be arrested for neglect and

abuse of a child.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. yep

[REP]

8. edited

I was trying to show restraint; I really think the so-called parents need to be beaten to death.

[bkkyosemite]

14. I knew that you were trying to be diplomatic I just said it for you :-) hope it was okay

;)

How pathetic parents they are so ignorant that is true but they do not live in Liberia anymore and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

[REP]

81. No prob!

I have no tolerance for rapists or "parents" like this, but my bloodthirsty kneejerk reactions aren't always welcomed by this community (which I can understand) so I try to dial it back once in a while. :hi:

[BreweryYardRat]

105. Don't worry, you're not the only one with bloodthirsty kneejerk reactions here.

:hi: Join the club.

[imdjh]

5. And this is why I want to scream when I hear "deeply held beliefs" as an excuse for stupid beliefs.

[tblue37]

111. Right Wingers also have "deeply held beliefs"--they are just very stupid and

often evil beliefs.

[flvegan]

7. That poor child. I think I'm going to be sick.

8 years old, and to have this double...no, triple-whammy happen. How horrible.

[Obama2012]

10. What a horrifying story

I feel so bad for that poor girl.

[emilyg]

11. This makes me sick.

[rebecca_herman]

12. how sad

that poor poor girl, at least she was removed before her nasty, horrible "parents" could do more to her

[Odin2005]

13. OMFG, those "parents" need a swift punch in the face.

Poor girl. To have something like that happen to you and then get traumatized again by her own family... :cry:

[Mimosa]

17. Why are they allowed to come here?

Why has the US let in so many immigrants from very primitive cultures? I'm thinking all the Somalians in Mineesota, for instance. Was there some there some labour shortage in the 1990s or the early 2000s? I'm serious about wanting to know why so many immigrants have been allowed to come into the US whilst jobs were being exported to China and India?

The brutality towards females in these cultures doesn't seem to be something we need to import. For instance, there have been honour killings in the city in which I live.

[cags]

18. Well if they did not come here, that poor girl would probably be killed. Glad she is safe now.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. Liberia was established by the United States in the 1820s

as a place to "repatriate" former slaves. Its capital, Monrovia, is named after the American president James Monroe. Its flag is modeled after the US flag. Liberia is the "most American" of African countries.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I would argue that this little girl is likely better off here

What would have happened in Liberia in this same situation?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. Depends on the ethnic background

The descendants of freed slaves are the elites in Liberia, but there were already other tribes living there (Kpelle, Vai, others whose names I can't remember) when the freed slaves were sent over.

There isn't just one culture in Liberia.

[Tim01]

34. One problem is they want to NOT assimilate.

Many of them see us as "less than" and so want nothing to do with our culture. So they form communities with the goal of keeping Americanization out of that community.

[proteus_lives]

45. Yup.

That is a problem.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

83. Few first-generation immigrants want to assimilate

That's why every large city has and has always had "ethnic islands."

[Maru Kitteh]

46. Meat. They are here to feed Americas addiction to cheap meat.

They are brought here to work the slaughterhouse floor, paid less than crap, housed like animals, abused, endangered, worn out, then tossed aside.

[Posteritatis]

63. Plenty of nice, white, non-primitive Americans would spit on their kid for being raped, too. (nt)

[WildEyedLiberal]

66. Name me ONE "nice, white American" subculture that condones gang-rape of 8 year olds

Go on.

[Posteritatis]

67. Are you denying such things happen?

Are you denying that there aren't rape victims out there disowned by their normal-white-person parents?

[WildEyedLiberal]

69. Yes, I am, until you can provide proof otherwise

I repeat: name me ONE instance of an 8 year old who has been gang-raped and subsequently disowned by his/her "white American" parents. ONE.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

117. HIPPA won't allow me to name names

But we are treating one such person right now at our clinic. The gang rape and the consequential disowning by the family has messed up the woman really bad. I'll only add that the victim was white and American, not an immigrant.

[winyanstaz]

94. well how about all those photos and videos of children being raped...

that our government is hiding right now? Will that do?

[WildEyedLiberal]

103. In Abu Ghraib?

Despicable, heinous, and abominable, but not remotely what is being discussed in this thread.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

116. How about certain fundamentalist churches?

I know of a woman who became pregnant by her minister--and she was openly condemned by her church, because it was, in their eyes, her fault. Minister was let off by the church. Child was put up for adoption, so that the minister's wife wouldn't have to care for it.

I know of a woman who was gang raped at a very early age. NOTHING was done about it except to tell the kid it was her fault. Don't know that this was the result of a sub-culture, but it is an instance of an American family basically doing the same sort of thing this family did. (And no, I'm not condoning or excusing the behavior--I'm just pointing out that it is more pervasive than many here apparently think.)

Third case in point--small town Midwest. BABY is molested, parents advised NOT to press charges because it would ruin the BABY'S reputation. They never pressed charges, and molester was free to keep molesting others.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[intaglio]

23. I do hope you meant to put a "Sarcasm" smiley in

Because otherwise your post was dispicable

[UndertheOcean]

24. Why is it despicable exactly ? having standards for immigration ?

[Tim01]

33. I totally agree.

I would think there some community standards we should want as a nation.
If you think your daughter getting raped is her fault and brings shame on your family, this country isn't for you, and we don't want that kind of attitude here.

I think we can have diversity and still uphold some standards.


Or maybe you and I are the only ones who think this is being too tolerant.


How many people here think we should be tolerant enough to allow an 8 year old girl to be held responsible for the shame of her own rape?

[ChazII]

98. Thank you for your common sense. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

118. I don't

I've seen the consequences of what happens when sexual abuse is covered up or swept under the rug. And yes, it is usually the case that the victim themselves is blamed.

[blueamy66]

25. I live here in AZ

and I am sick. This is outrageous. If CPS returns that child to her "parents" the media and the public in AZ is gonna go crazy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. OMG how sad

[Mari333]

28. well, heres the deal

those 'parents' will find out really fast that this is the united states, and people dont put up with that shit here. female children are treated with respect and the fucking law is the law.
dont bring antiquated bullshit sexist crap here, its going to be smashed into a million pieces.
that includes people like tony alamo and the little girl polygamy assholes.

[blueamy66]

32. The kids are find out really fast as well...

that this is the US and we do not put up with that shit here.

[RoadRage]

29. As sad as this is.. I don't know if I blame the parents entirely..

They were obviously raised in a very harsh world, where this is the norm. Just because they up and moved here doesn't mean that everything they were taught and all of the customs, ideals, etc. that they learned automatically disappeared.

Sadly, this IS a reality in many parts of this world. Is it wrong? In my opinion ABSOLUTELY! But, it's like assuming that as soon as someone moves across our borders, they automatically assume all of our norms - and that is not the case.

I am glad that this child is in protective custody. I hope these parents are arrested on neglect charges so that they can be pushed into parenting classes (along with the parents of the 4 boys as well).

This is a very sad situtation for everyone - I hope it turns out to be a great learning opportunity for everyone in that community.

[leftynyc]

55. Parenting classes??

I'm thinking more along the lines of prison for child abandonment. They're disgusting excuses for human beings.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. A child is better off without parents like that.

There has to be some nurturing soul out there willing to give that child a real chance at a good life.

[JBoy]

31. Not PC, but that father is a pathetic excuse for a man.

[surrealAmerican]

35. If this girl has any siblings ...

... I hope they've been removed from those parents as well.

[marshall]

36. Any guesses as to which religion this family practices?

It's the same old story.

[Rebubula]

38. Please elaborate..

...I am interested to understand what you are saying.

[marshall]

48. These misyogynistic attitudes most often arise from a religious background

That's been my observation--although I suppose there are misogynistic atheists and agnostics out there.

[Iggo]

43. My guess would be "a" religion.

Was I close?

[Tim01]

50. Bet I can get it on the first guess. nt

[LeftishBrit]

54. Several possibilities in Liberians

40% practice Christianity - numerous denominations, often mixed with 'indigenous beliefs'

20% practice Islma, often mixed with 'indigenous beliefs'

40% practice mainly the indigenous religions.

I don't know much about what these indigenous beliefs are.

Liberia seems to be a very complex and diverse society. I still associate it with the Taylor dictatorship, and was slightly startled to discover that they now have a female president.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. Could be Christian, Muslim, or traditional tribal beliefs

All are practiced in Liberia.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

119. Majority of Liberians

are either Christian (40%) or animists (40%), with only 20% Muslim. Interesting that you automatically associate such attitudes with Christianity and Animism.

[kiva]

40. Poor kid, hope she gets into a better situation.

Someone posted a few weeks ago that another country (I'm thinking it was in northern Europe, but could be wrong) required that anyone immigrating there had to be familiar with the culture of that country, which made perfect sense to me.

We have enough of our home-grown crazies, we don't need to import any more anti-women, homophobic, religious whack jobs from anywhere else--this isn't just about this case, it's a statement about immigration in general.

[Spike89]

47. Hard to argue against, but...

That's an impossible task and would almost certainly turn out to be a tool used primarily by racists. The "culture" of this country is anything but homogenous and certainly not without turbulence. Do we allow right-to-lifers, gays, libertarians (with or without Liberians), smokers?, cell-phone using drivers, muslims, jews, athiests, dark-skinned folk?

I hate what happened to that little girl, but the answer isn't to start excluding people.

[kiva]

59. We already have restrictions on immigration.

I'm not an expert, but I know that there are some here at DU, so if I'm wrong please correct me. I have no problem excluding people who do not accept the equality of women, GLBTers, or those of other races and religions. As I said, we have enough of a problem with the idiots who (unluckily for the rest of us) were born here and can't be refused citizenship just for stupidity.

I don't know if it is possible either, and you may be right about it being used as a racist tool, but accepting bigotry as part of anyone's culture isn't a necessary. Hmmm...deporting cell-phone using drivers...

[WildEyedLiberal]

60. Simple: they must be familiar with our legal code

If they think they have some cultural prerogative to practice female genital mutilation, honor killings, or gang rapes, then no go. If they think that rape is acceptable and/or legal, no go. It's not racist to exclude elements from your society that display a flagrant disregard for our society's most basic tenets.

[Liberal_in_LA]

76. There is a documentary showing the US goverment's class teaching African males

that they can't rape or beat their wives. African men and women were put in a classrooom. The women were vigorously agreeing with the topic... rape/beating of wives not legal in America. The men looked a bit confused. Saw it on Nova or something like that. The documentary followed a group of Africans from their native village to America.

[notadmblnd]

95. was that the one where at the beginning they were totally awed

and at the end they were totally disillusioned? They thought they were going to get a chance at a better life and all they got was low paying jobs that worked them like dogs?

[Liberal_in_LA]

102. Yep. They left their war torn country, landed in shiny high tech America and were working dead end

jobs in the end.

[redqueen]

51. I want to state my disagreement with the "don't let them in" comments.

I find this kind of thing horrifying. But at least now, that little girl has a chance to be raised in a society where that kind of thing isn't at least tolerated... sometimes even accepted and encouraged.

What would happen to a little girl in this same situation if she had stayed in her home country?

[BlooInBloo]

56. Americans can be pretty fucking disgusting. Sigh @ the little girl. :(

[Tim01]

61. I'm not sure I agree, but you do have a good point.

I know some local muslim teenager girls who are supposed to be living a more traditional life, but they just can't stand it. They like American teenage stuff like jeans and nail polish. So, when they have kids those kids will be far removed from fundamental stuff like face coverings, and I'm sure that is a good thing.

I still don't like the idea of the fundies coming to this country and encouraging each other and the locals to adopt extremist positions. Such as an 8 year old girl being guilty of shame for her own rape.

[redqueen]

70. Well wherever they live, they might try to proselytize...

so for their children's sake, I'd rather they were allowed into countries with more progressive societies.

[AuntPatsy]

52. After reading this thread it is amazing to me how many refuse to admit we have

many such people who were born and bred american....this is not only a problem from immigrants...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. THANK YOU, Aunt Patsy!

As one who knows some Liberians personally, I am appalled by the ignorant, bigoted sentiments on this thread, blanket condemnations of Liberian culture by people who know nothing about it.

[alily4lucille]

106. America would NOT be what it is today Without Immigrants

I hate it when people tell foreigners to go back to their country. The only TRUE Americans are Native American Indians. EVERYONE ELSE is the descendant of an IMMIGRANT! So, how can we as a nation of immigrants, tell others to go back home, or be prejudiced against them? I was born and raised in this country along with my parents, and many generations before too. But sometimes the "American" people make me feel ashamed to be an American due to the ignorance level we posses in this "1st world country".

[LeftishBrit]

53. Truly awful

Blame the victim every time; especially if she's female.

[CTyankee]

58. Why are these people allowed into this country?

I wish they'd send them all back, except for the little girl. I hope they find a nice home for her and she is helped to deal with her trauma. I have an 8 year old granddaughter and the thought of ANY harm to her would tempt me to commit axe murder...

[slackmaster]

74. There is something vaguely ironic about suggesting that people be sent back to Liberia...

...can't quite put my finger on it.

[CTyankee]

77. I'm not sure it's a good thing that they're here. I know political asylees

from several AFrican countries. I've never heard anything this outrageous.

If ever there were a case to be made for deportation, this one is it.

[slackmaster]

99. Please describe briefly the circumstances that led to the founding of the nation of Liberia

;-)

[CTyankee]

100. What the hell does that have to do with the behavior of this family?

I don't think these people belong in civilized society.

[slackmaster]

101. I'm not commenting on the behavior of that family

RIF

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. For cryin' out loud, I live in a city with one of the largest Liberian populations in the country

Most of them are wonderful people. They've come from incredible hardships (the Liberian civil war), they work hard in low-paying jobs (especially nursing homes, where they are especially kind to the old folks like my mother), and many of them are going to school part-time while working in these low-status jobs.

I hate to see anyone painted with a broad brush like this.

[TommyO]

114. These people?

That's an awfully wide brush you have there CTyankee. Who else do you want to send back?

[rollin74]

62. absolutely disgusting

The parents disowned her because they said her being victimized brought shame to the family. Those fucking monsters should be deported asap.

I hope the girl can somehow recover in peace and find a warm and loving home. She'll be better off without her fucked up parents. They obviously don't give a shit about her.

[WildEyedLiberal]

68. And this crap is way worse in Europe

Where politicians are so afraid of being called racist or intolerant that they allow almost unchecked immigration and allow the immigrants to live in insular ghettos where barbaric practices like female genital mutilation to go on with little to no intervention by the authorities. "Multiculturalism" has become a smokescreen for allowing misogynist, repressive, homophobic cultures free rein in developed countries. It would be different if assimilation were expected and enforced, but that would be too "intolerant," I guess.

You're damn right I'm intolerant of shit like this.

[azmouse]

78. So I guess the ability to have children doesn't automatically make someone a good parent...

Just like the inability to conceive doesn't mean someone would be a lousy parent.

[sakabatou]

79. WTF?

Just WTF?!

[notadmblnd]

84. I saw the parents on the news and they totally blamed the 8 yr old

even her teen aged sister chimed in that her sister is nothing but trouble. It was sad and pathetic.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. That sounds like "family with one scapegoat child"

and it happens among middle-class American families, too.

The poor little girl probably was so susceptible to those boys because she wasn't getting any affection at home.

[notadmblnd]

92. I suspect it's a cultural thing.

They're from Liberia (like just off the boat) and apparently in Liberia females are of little value. It's a shame that immigrants come into this country and are allowed to engage in customs that are deemed inappropriate (rightly so) in this country. They are often used as cheap labor and are generally left uneducated and ignorant. On top of that they are placed in herd like living conditions.

I don't think it's right, I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying I think I understand the mentality of the family. I do not think the eight year old should be returned to the family. I think they will kill her if she is returned. I saw the father say that he wants her back after saying they no longer wanted her. In my opinion, there was vengeance in his voice when he said it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

96. You cannot generalize about Liberia

If females are of little value, why is one of the Liberian CNAs who takes care of my mother studying biology and chemisty in her spare time so she can go to pharmacy school?

There are many different cultures there, just as there are in every West African country. You cannot generalize.

[gleaner]

93. Take away all of the other factors.....

and you have a very simple, very sickening story. The little girl was raped by four boys and then raped again by her parents. I hope that she never has to go back to them. I hope the boys are punished to the maximum extent that the law allows.


Am I understanding that many of you blame the fact of the rape on the Liberian descent of the rapists? I don't think that is a pivotal factor. A few years back two older boys beat a much younger boy to death with a stone and sodomized him. They were all English children living in the UK. More recently an American marine waylaid, raped and murdered an Iraqi girl of 14. The military tried and convicted him. Think of all of the rapes that occur here every day, American to American. So tell me, do you really believe that only Liberians are cultured to rape? I don't. And please, we all came from somewhere else at one time bringing our customs with us. America is a nation of immigrants.

[WildEyedLiberal]

104. But in how many cultures is the rape victim disowned and shunned by their family?

THAT'S what makes this story particularly barbaric. Yes, unfortunately, monsters who rape are found in every culture and in every socioeconomic stratum of society - rich, middle-class, poor, black, white, and everything in between. No one has argued otherwise. But in which of those cases that you cited did the parents or family of the VICTIM disown them for being raped?

[Spike89]

107. Virtually all of 'em?

I'm male and fortunately never been closely involved in a situation anything like this. But, even I know and have seen the effects of basically the same thing. It sadly isn't that uncommon for a child to be ignored, shunned, even blamed for exposing incest. Hell, the entire catholic priest pedophile issue is rife of examples of victims both shunned and intimidated into keeping quiet by family. How can anyone think this is truly uncommon in any culture?

It is true that in the last generation or so, we in the U.S. have made strides and more and more people reject the blame-the-victim scenario. However, it isn't eradicated here. In fact, it may even be harder in some ways for victims here where "officially" they aren't blamed, but they then find reality to be much different. I'm not condoning these parents behavior in any way, but at least their child can say to herself "any girl unfortunate to have this happen to her would be treated this way". An american girl has to deal with all the same issues, but is left to wonder, "am I being treated this way because I really am at fault?"

[gleaner]

108. There have been families here....

who have told the victims that they are lying. Sadly, this is not a unique reaction. Then think of the laws that had to be passed here to protect the identity of rape victims so that they could be protected from strangers who wanted to disgrace them. There were also laws passed to bar the past of rape victims from court, exclude the way the victims were dressed,the number of sexual partners the victims had before and at the time of the crime, and other factors that the defense lawyers of the rapists wanted to use to make it seem that the victims were really at fault for what had happened to them. The fact that criminal lawyers still try to get around these sanctions shows that on some societal level, people want to blame the victim. This was in America and it is why it is still so hard for victims of rape to come through a trial and view it as anything other than an ordeal second only to the crime itself. As I said before; they are raped by the perpetrator and again by the judicial system and public opinion; sometimes by family opinions too.

I did know a little neighbor girl who was repeatedly raped by her father. Both her mother and father said that he was doing nothing wrong because there was something "bad" about the child that made him do it. These were mainstream Christians all born here and not of any other cultural background. Eventually the authorities did move to take her away, but not before she had been damaged emotionally as well as physically to a point where she may not have been able to come back from. She was under 10 years old. I understand that this is often common in families where children are abused. The children are blamed by their parents and sometimes one child is scapegoated and punished harder than all of the others as the person who is causing everyone else's problems. That is not an identical situation, but it is close enough to show that people often blame victims of crime of whatever age for what the criminals do to them. If they had to admit that it was not the victims' fault they would have to admit to themselves that they could be victims too, and they don't want to do that.

Please don't think that I condone these actions or the actions of the parents of the little eight year old. I do not. I wish that they could be prosecuted too. I just don't think that you can blame ethnicity or assume a particular religion and say "only these people would do this." If you do, you forget that many human beings, and many other cultures including our own have members who could and do behave in this manner. We talk all the time about cultural stereotypes and racism and how evil they are. We need to live what we say, and we need to realize that we can't blame good or bad in people's characters on where they were born or who they descended from. Take prejudging of people without knowing them to its most extreme and you have the essence of the word prejudice.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. Thank you for elaborating on my point

The form of child abuse in which just one child is scapegoated and used as a punching bag/rape victim by the rest of the family is sadly common across cultures and religious or non-religious affiliations.

That type of thing could have happened in a family that has been here since the Revolutionary War.

[gleaner]

123. Exactly so....

I think that scapegoating is a common factor in child abuse along with isolating the children from people who might be able to help them, (keep the secrets) and turning the children against each other so that they are even more helpless against the abusive parents. No brother and sister allies. No one in the home to turn to or to help them.

As you say as well, abuse is not unique to any particular country, religion or culture. It is aberrant behavior wherever it occurs, just like turning on child and adult victims of stranger to stranger violence.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

120. Hear hear!

Yes, you have made the point. Thank you! Wish I could recommend your answer!

[gleaner]

124. Thank you......

for reading my post and for your kind words.:hi:

[1monster]

122. Two of the rapists were nine and ten respectively. One was eleven. That

strongly suggests that they also were victims of sexual abuse. I'm not sure about the fourteen year old. Possibly, possibly not.

All of them need to be made aware that what they did was wrong. I hope that they also receive some kind of therapy that will help turn them away from any such kind of future behavior.

But I'm not optimistic that they will receive that therapy. Even if they do, once a sexually abused child starts acting out on others, it is almost impossible to curb the behavior. The younger the behavior begins, the more impossible the cure.

More reseach needs to be done to try to find a cure for children who are sexual abusers. If not, they will continue to abuse and a vicious circle will spiral out of control.

The little girl will need a tremendous amount of help to put this behind her. Even then, she will never be completely over it. It will be a buried memory that will leap out at her at unexpected moments the rest of her life and she will have flashes of being that terrified, abandoned eight year old again and again and again...

[cecilfirefox]

113. My solution against parents like THAT? Stone them! nt

[babydollhead]

121. In my country, it is shameful for the parents to do anything but...

love the little girl and encourage her to be a survivor of rape.