It is time to start talking about the NUCLEAR OPTION

[niceypoo]

It is the only sure fire way to get a public health care option

Obviously the GOP will do nothing but obstruct and lie to stop health care
Obviously the BlueDogs care more about their own skins than doing what they country needs and wants
The nuclear option will render these 'problems' obsolete

Worried about fallout?
Social Security was created without a single Republican vote. How did that one turn out?

If the Democrats ever need to show a spine on anything,this is it.

Next year my insurance goes to a 'health savings plan'
It only pays for preventive medicine.
There is a $6,000 deductible every year if we want more care than that, and they wont pay a cent until the $6k is first paid off.
Our plan, which was good in 2000 and has gone downhill ever since, will be a hollowed out husk next year and we will no longer be able to afford to get sick.

We hear about the 40 million without health insurance. What about the 150 million of us who are UNDER INSURED and being blatantly RIPPED OFF by insurance companies?

[Eric J in MN]

1. 'Reconciliation' is how the spending portion of the bill could get...

...through with 51 votes.

But regulations of insurance companies would still take 60 votes.

[niceypoo]

2. A public plan would force competition

[hughee99]

3. The nuclear option would mark "an unprecedented abuse of power"

I'm sure a few DUers would support that statement.

We shouldn't have to change the Senate rules to get our own party in line, and it will only result in bad PR and problems down the road.

[niceypoo]

7. The Democrats would emerge as heros

Who cares what the Republicans say.

The republicans 'Shouldn't' be allowed to control things, but they still do

[Statistical]

9. The media and public polling didn't show Repukes as heroes when they considered....

doing the same thing.

[hughee99]

10. And it sets a dangerous precedent. n/t

[niceypoo]

23. That is because the Republicans were playing politics

And the American public didnt support them on it. They would have done it anyway though. This isnt about stacking the supreme court so placate wedge issue voters.

70+ percent of Americans want and support a public option.

Your comparing the GOP cramming through a supreme court anti-abortionist to health care?

[elocs]

16. We would be shortsighted not to understand that karma would be a bitch

if the nuclear option were used. There are those who believe that the Republicans are done and will never be in power again. That's a Liberal fantasy.

[hughee99]

17. Exactly...

if this legislation is supported by a majority of Americans (and I believe it is) we should be able get the votes without having to resort to this.

[niceypoo]

24. The karma of universal health care?

Is that bad karma?

[zorahopkins]

4. Nuclear Option?

I'm sorry to be so dense about things like this, but what do you mean when you say "Nuclear Option"?

(I hope you are not suggesting a nuclear bomb or anything like that!!)

[ThomWV]

5. Senate vote of 50%+1 to end debate and move to passage of a bill.

I believe I got that right, but if not it will soon be corrected. We'll both be smarter.

[zorahopkins]

6. Well, Then, OK -- NUCLEAR OPTION!!

If that is the Nuclear Option, then I say "Let's Use The NUCLEAR OPTION" -- as soon as we can!

I am sick and tired of the way some politicians use tricks to thwart the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

If a MAJORITY of the Senate wants something to happen, then it should happen.

It seems very simple to me.

What am I missing here??

[Statistical]

8. Remember about 3 years ago when that guy called Bush was in office....

and 56 Republicans controlled the Senate.

I know it was a lifetime ago.

The republicans wanted tot use the "nuclear option" then too.
Would you have supported it then?

I am a realist. Eventually the Democrats will screw up and the Republicans will be in control again.
Do you want them to be able to change or eliminate spending programs with 0 input from Democrats.

It is like torture once you do it you lose the moral authority to resist it.

Think of how much more damage the Republicans could have done with complete control over the Senate for 5 years.

[zorahopkins]

11. Big, HUGE, ENORMOUS Difference

There is an ENORMOUS difference between then and now.

Then, the Republicans wanted to SCREW the American people -- and the restof the world, for that matter.

Now, we want to enact laws that will not only help the American people, they will also keep some people from dying.

People are dying -- right now!! -- because they can't get health care, or because their insurance company has dropped them, or because they lost their job, and have a "pre-existing condition" that prevents them from getting health care.

MOST AMERICANS WANT ADEQUATE, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE!

The majority of the Senate wants it too!

If it takes the NUCLEAR OPTION to make it happen, then I say, Let's Use IT!

[Statistical]

13. You don't think it will be abused in the future by Republicans?

Do you think anyone will care when Dems cry for a 60% requirements to pass bills when they are the minority again?

What matters in legislature is not what good can you do with something but what bad can someone abuse it to do.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Nuclear option talk is irrelevant, but not for that reason...

It'll be abused in the future by republicans no matter WHAT we do. Fear of *that* isn't a reason to avoid it.

EDIT: It's irrelevant because we already have ANOTHER way to get down to 50+1.

[niceypoo]

12. They wanted to ram an anti-abortion pick through

How many lives would that improve?

They would have done it too.

Rules can be changed, ya know. Elections have consequences.

[Better Believe It]

14. Right now you only need 50 votes + Vice-President Biden to pass legislation. What's the problem?

[ThomWV]

20. That's on final passage, but you need 60 to end debate before you can get to the vote

So 41 Nay votes can hold any bill hostage forever.

[Buns_of_Fire]

27. Actually, these days, all they need do is THREATEN to filibuster...

I say, let 'em. Bring in the cots, the tankards of coffee, cases of Depends, and copies of their local telephone directory.

Make them WORK at being assholes for a change. Right in front of God 'n' everybody.:evilgrin:

[Better Believe It]

28. So let the Republicans filibuster. Make them engage in a real filibuster!

Again, what's the problem with that?

They can't filibuster forever!

Just let them tie up Congress with a real (not fake phone it it) obstructionist filibuster in support of the insurance companies and health care industry.

Believe me, it won't go on for weeks much less months.

60 Senators would vote to end a real Senate floor debate rather quickly.

Let's try that instead of caving in and surrendering at the mere threat of a Republican filibuster!

[Statistical]

15. Ok we will need to agree to disagree.

Someday the Republicans will be in charge again. That is just how American politics work.

Hopefully it will be a long time. If Americans transfer blame of the economy to Obama it might be a short time.

Someday the Republicans will be the same position to ram an anti-abortion pick through.
Guess what? If you have your way they will be able to do it because the Democrats removed the 60 vote rule and imagine the damage they will cause.

The 60 vote rule is there for a reason. You highlighted one good example.

If we got rid of warrants cops would be able to solve/prosecute/prevent a lot of crime. Someone might argue there is a risk to do that though. That despite the fact that it lets criminals escape warrants serve a purpose.

[elocs]

19. Also, if Reid refuses to recess until a health care bill is passed,

why would anyone believe he would ever use the nuclear option?

[notesdev]

21. How did that one turn out?

Turned into a big Ponzi scheme from which no person under the age of 50 has a prayer in hell of collecting the promised retirement benefits from, now that you mention it. You can't eat "Special Treasury Bonds".

[hughee99]

22. Well there's that, but

the Stimulus Package also passed without a single repuke vote, and that was wildly successful. :sarcasm:

[niceypoo]

25. You sound like the GOP

Social security is still with us decades later.

Why are you against health care for all?

[notesdev]

26. Right

And the Treasury is going to find the $2.4 trillion and counting to pay back the SS system... where? And we've barely begun to see the boomers retire!

There's nothing political about the math. If you want to take an economically fantastic position and call it political, that's your right to do so, but it's no less silly for the label.