Do you believe

[leftofthedial]

that the death of meaningful health care reform is, in effect, the end of the "hope" marketing campaign?

[Naturyl]

1. Yeah, pretty much.

If we don't get single-payer or at least a good public option, then I'm done having sunshine pumped into my nether regions.

It will be considered Washington as usual from that point on.

[RandomThoughts]

2. I saw your other negative post about health care.

I disagree with you.

I believe a meaningful good health care bill will be passed.

If no bill is passed, Republicans and Obstructionist will have the tag line on following election and primary. "Refused to help America with Health Care, To stop a small tax increase on millionaires and to keep the increase of Corporate profits"

If a bad bill passes, then progressive democrats will be shown they can not legislate.

If a good bill passes, people in America will get help, and those that helped pass it will be seen as doing their work.

And due to a complex enforcement of bribery crimes during the time of lack of any laws, it makes sense that many other consequences logically would follow.

[leftofthedial]

5. defeating health care reform has NEVER hurt the repukes in a mid-term election.

When Democrats fail to enact health care reform (going all the way back to Teddy Roosevelt), it hurts them far worse than the obstructionist repukes.

If a good bill passes, it will be a miracle, since no truly good bill is even under consideration.

If we get a health care bill passed, it will represent the least possible amount of tweaking around the edges that the politicians in DC can call "reform." (And that won't take much fiddling at all, as shameless as they are.)

[RandomThoughts]

7. Different paradigm.

A cadence wave has deteriorated assumptions that use to support those older perceptions.

Wall street Bonuses
Bailout
Housing slump
Failure of so many Right wing policies
Insurance profits and increases in health care costs.
And many other things.

And a request from the American people to change Washington, those events create a new paradigm. If people were to get in the way of the 'change America' works, then the hope campaign would fire up for the change needed including congressional office holders.

Your paradigm is based on a different momentum in a different time, and is a common and laughable mistake being made by Republicans.

If Health care did not pass, it would be a revitalizing of the hope and change campaign carried into the next cycle as American realize what is needed is a new Washington DC to support the policies and methods that help the American people.

Yes we can, bring change to Washington.

If you want a pattern, weaker Generals always fight using what was done in war before the one they are currently in.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. I think the success of health care...

will be just another in a long list of humiliating defeats for Obama haters.

[stuball111]

4. How bout this...

It we don't get a Universal, Single payer system in during this term, We go out and support the Democrats even More rigorously, work harder at helping with campaigns, donate MORE money and make sure they receive an even bigger majority, one that is absolutely repub-proof, a monopoly, if you will, say, 70 Senate seats and 300 Congress People But, before allowing the candidates to become nominated, and before allowing them to run, they sign an agreement that they will get our help under the condition that they adopt the universal single payer system and vote for it when they get elected within 3 months of becoming elected. All moneys collected for their campaign will be considered a "loan"if they back down, and will have to pay the money back.

[leftofthedial]

6. Supporting the "Democrats" (as currently constituted)

is a recipe for more of the same, not for change.

Who would implement, much less enforce, an agreement like you describe? :shrug:

[stuball111]

9. say...

Louisville Slugger.com?

[anonymous171]

8. Yes. nt