To those here, what is your defintion of "racial profiling?"

[HardWorkingDem]

It seems to me, that like the word racism and accusations of racism, the words "racial profiling" are thrown around a bit too quickly. So, to those here, just what is "racial profiling".....

Is it racial profiling when:

A) A store has just been robbed by a person described as a white male, wearing a black t-shirt, shaved head, blue pants and a goatee. Police in the area begin looking for and stopping white males who resemble this description. Also, switch this to a black male.

Is this racial profiling when police start stopping people who fit this description?

B) A police officer is driving around a high drug traffic area and sees a vehicle being driven around like the person is lost. The officer parks in a dark parking lot and watches the vehicle and sees it keeps circling the area. The officer runs the license plate and learns the car is registered to a person from a small town twenty miles away. The officer then stops the vehicle after observing a traffic violation.

Is this racial profiling?


C) An armed robbery spree is going on in a town and the suspects are described as being a white and black male using an older model, dark brown box car with body damage on the driver side area of the vehicle, with a broken window. Police start stopping vehicles resembling this car with white and black male occupants.


D) A suspect has been mugging people late at night as they leave a busy neighborhood gas station/store. An undercover police officer is hiding across the street and sees a person hiding in the shadows near the rear of the store. He can't tell if the person is black or white and encounters the man. What if the man is black or white?

Is this racial profiling?


E) A person has been burglarizing vehicles in a huge used car lot late at night. A police officer is patrolling this car lot and sees a person walking through the car lot late at night and sees the person appear to hide when seeing the police officer. The officer stops the person and it is a black man.

Is this racial profiling?


F) The state police are running radar on an interstate. The radar running car is hidden on an overpass and radios to a catch car which car was just recorded as going over the speed limit and the second trooper stops the vehicle. Where the radar running trooper is at, he can't tell if the car is being driven by a man, woman, person of color or white person.

Is this racial profiling?



My point in all of these illustrations is the words "racial profiling" get thrown around too quickly. To me, racial profiling is when a person is stopped purely for their race or for racist beliefs about the person because of their race. For example, if a person would say to themselves, "Oh, there is a black man, he must be up to no good, I better see what he is doing." Or, simply stopping a person in a car because it is being driven or occupied by people of color.

[obliviously]

1. I see the points you are making

but the result of this thread will be hard feelings!

[lindisfarne]

2. We can conclude that the Cop was unreasonable in his expectation that a person in his own house,

on his own property, does not have the right to get angry, raise his voice, etc.
It was established that Gates was in his own home when he was arrested for belligerence. That is the ridiculous aspect of this.

Obviously, the neighbor who called also contributed to any racial profiling that was going on, and even if there was no racial profiling on the part of the officer, the officer needs training on

1)MA law: when a citizen asks for badge # & name, a police officer must give it (and citizen should not have to ask more than once)

2)Behavior expectations: police entered home without permission; once they established the man lived there, they needed to leave (& answer any questions he might have, honestly & upon 1st request); and recognize the man had a right to raise his voice in his own home (and when the officer refused to provide badge # & name after first request, the home owner had even more of a right to raise his voice).

[LisaL]

3. How did the neighbor "contributed to racial profiling?"

She observed two people that appeared to try and break into the house.
What was she supposed to have done?

[lindisfarne]

4. The question here is: if it was 2 white men/women acting in the same manner, would she have called?

On a population basis, a higher % of people would call on 2 black males than 2 white males or 2 white females of the same age (60-ish).

[LisaL]

7. Well, there is no way to find that out unless someone

else tries to break into Dr. Gates' house, is there? Although I doubt anyone would call anymore, regardless.

[lindisfarne]

9. Actually, all you have to do is look at robbery reports across a city. You don't have to look at

Gates's house only. If you say that, you're saying that people are somehow acting in a very specific manner toward Gates's house, and Gates's house only.

[LisaL]

12. Robbery reports are not going to tell me anything

about a specific individual accused of "racial profiling."

[lindisfarne]

15. Please see your question (#3) and my first reply, plus the remaining discussion.n/t

[HardWorkingDem]

5. Off topic, but deserving of a reply...

Right now I am avoiding the topic you refer to primarily because many people here have apparently not read the police reports located at the Smoking Gun.

For one, the officer admits in his report he provided such information to Gates on not one occasion, but two. Not only that, he was in uniform and it is common for badges of police in uniform to have the officer's badge number present.

Also discussed in the report is that Gates was asked to identify himself as the home owner he refused to do so. Read the report - it is clear Gates was yelling and followed the officer out of his house while continue to yell. And this was in front of a different officer.

Gates was not arrested in his house. He was arrested outside of his house when he followed the officer out of the house and continued to yell at him.

Lastly, the neighbor called because she saw a man putting a shoulder to a door. Regardless of a person's color, is that not suspicious behavior?


(And as for people wondering about the depth of the report, I can probably guarantee that when the officer's supervisors learned who he had just arrested, he was told to write a very good and thorough police report because the incident would receive a lot of attention).

[lindisfarne]

8. I've read one of the police reports. I was not convinced. It says Gates behaved in a

"loud & tumultuous manner in a public place". The man was on his own property, in his home & on his porch. It also mentioned "while officer was investigating an ongoing crime". Gates had provided ID.

Gates was in his own home, which officers entered without permission. As soon as it was established Gates was in his own home, the cops needed to be very apologetic, answer all question immediately, after first request, and leave, seeing as they did not have a search warrant.

Gates had the right to raise his voice, even lose his temper, in his own home. He did nothing that legitimately threatened the cop according to the report I read. The cop did, indeed, write the report in a way which protected himself - another issue that I see as very problematic. I could go on, but I'll stop there.

[LisaL]

10. I don't think cops need a search warrant if they have a

reasonable suspicion the crime is being committed.

[lindisfarne]

16. Please go back and re-read #8 more carefully. n/t

[bliss_eternal]

6. become a person of color...

...you may see things differently. but until that happens, try not minimizing others assessments of what racial profiling is.

[HardWorkingDem]

11. Sigh.......

The tone of your response is part of what I'm trying to point out.

I am not trying to "minimize" other assessments of what racial profiling is, but asking what others define racial profiling is to them.

Replying to "become a person of color" is flippant and not helpful at all.

And frankly, the refusal and resistance to see many subjects from the eyes of others is just one more problem when dealing with issues of racism, sexism and other forms of prejudice.

[bliss_eternal]

17. what you are "trying to do"....

is not relevant. what is relevant is how your words are received by others in this community.

let's be clear. on du you are entitled to your opinion. but that does not entitle you to "dictate" to others.

do yourself a favor, and start listening to people of color, glbt's, women and other minority groups regarding what discrimination looks (and feels like). kindly stop dictating to others how they should think or feel. you are not an authority on this. the people i've listed ARE.

op's like yours are part of the problem, and it makes you look ridiculous(imho).
your op is the equivalent of me telling a man without arms and legs how to feel about paraplegic jokes.

it's called "sensitivity." try it sometime.

[HardWorkingDem]

23. How did I dictate anything?

I asked a question and offered illustrations where I have heard people claim the listed examples are those of "racial profiling."


For example, I have heard time and time again, people of color declare they were stopped simply because of their color when caught in speed traps or traffic stops when it was entirely impossible to determine a person's race or gender before being stopped because of distance or time of day and how such factors could not be determined prior to the stop (the receiving of a citation or accusation of the reason for receiving a citation is another thing entirely).


And how about adding some insight to the original question, because that is what I'm after.

I'm asking others here just what is YOUR definition of this....

[Raineyb]

19. Then perhaps you should watch your tone

because it sure as hell sounded like you were minimizing racial profiling to me.

[HardWorkingDem]

22. Not at all.....ask before jumping to wrong conclusions...

After watching the Gates incident, as others, I have seen a very broad jump and link and have simply asked a question. And to illustrate the broadness of this subject (racial profiling) I have included some examples to try and find out how people here define this subject, because from reading comments around DU, it appears many people think many instances of where there are three, four or more variables involved in an encounter, that it is still automatically "racial profiling."


But lo and behold, don't let anyone ask a question around here....


Now the odd thing is so far there has not been an example given of what people consider "racial profiling"...

[lindisfarne]

14. Actually, you don't even have to do that. I carry a backpack, because I bike a lot & don't want to

use plastic bags. That alone makes people suspicious, even if it's on your back throughout the time you are in a store.

I also have a problem with stores which require you to check a bag - I often have valuable books, my laptop in my bag. Their check systems are completely insecure. Many stores have lost my business as a result of these policies.

It makes me angry because that kind of suspicion is enough to make many people not make the effort to not use plastic bags. In other words, the assumption is because you have a backpack, you are more likely to steal.

[hfojvt]

18. I know how that goes

sometimes I will put the bag on backwards, so it sits on my stomach and my coat is on over it. Other times I will put the bag in a shopping cart, but some shopping bags on top of it. Of course, if you do not use a car you are suspect and unAmerican.

[hfojvt]

13. I think I have been profiled, but I am white and poor

so it's all good. Plus I only got one seatbelt ticket out of it and that was likely because I looked startled when I saw the cop.

[appleannie1]

20. Having worked in a Police Dept for 15 years can I ask a question?

Would you consider it racial profiling if your police chief rode around in his personal vehicle after dark and if he saw a black man on the streets called in and ordered his officers to "watch that guy?" So, while they were busy following orders and "watching that guy" kids, mostly white, were breaking into cars and stealing things. In those 15 years we had only one black arrest, a kid that was throwing eggs, but the officers were well trained to watch any black person, especially after the sun went down.

[TexasObserver]

21. Here are the answers.

Is it racial profiling when:

A) A store has just been robbed by a person described as a white male, wearing a black t-shirt, shaved head, blue pants and a goatee. Police in the area begin looking for and stopping white males who resemble this description. Also, switch this to a black male.

Is this racial profiling when police start stopping people who fit this description?

No, it is not racial profiling. It is looking for a suspect based upon descriptors.

B) A police officer is driving around a high drug traffic area and sees a vehicle being driven around like the person is lost. The officer parks in a dark parking lot and watches the vehicle and sees it keeps circling the area. The officer runs the license plate and learns the car is registered to a person from a small town twenty miles away. The officer then stops the vehicle after observing a traffic violation.

Is this racial profiling?

No, it is not racial profiling.


C) An armed robbery spree is going on in a town and the suspects are described as being a white and black male using an older model, dark brown box car with body damage on the driver side area of the vehicle, with a broken window. Police start stopping vehicles resembling this car with white and black male occupants.

No, it is not racial profiling. It is looking for suspects based upon descriptors.


D) A suspect has been mugging people late at night as they leave a busy neighborhood gas station/store. An undercover police officer is hiding across the street and sees a person hiding in the shadows near the rear of the store. He can't tell if the person is black or white and encounters the man. What if the man is black or white?

Is this racial profiling?

No, whether the man is black or white.


E) A person has been burglarizing vehicles in a huge used car lot late at night. A police officer is patrolling this car lot and sees a person walking through the car lot late at night and sees the person appear to hide when seeing the police officer. The officer stops the person and it is a black man.

Is this racial profiling?

No, it is not racial profiling.


F) The state police are running radar on an interstate. The radar running car is hidden on an overpass and radios to a catch car which car was just recorded as going over the speed limit and the second trooper stops the vehicle. Where the radar running trooper is at, he can't tell if the car is being driven by a man, woman, person of color or white person.

Is this racial profiling?

No, it is not racial profiling.