Let's say the cop said something like this to Professor Gates:

[cboy4]

"Good evening sir.... I'm sorry, but we received a call about someone breaking in to this home.

Could I just very quickly check your identification so I can do my job and make sure I know you live here .. and then I'll be on my way.."

Is there seriously anyone here who doesn't believe Professor Gates .. appreciating the police were making sure burglars weren't cleaning out his home .. would have happily obliged without causing a scene?

I just do not believe for a second Gates flew off the handle for no reason.

And by the way Mr. Cop .. your job is to brush shit off your shoulder.

The second you realized the rightful owner was the person you were dealing with, your job was to take your ass off his property and get in your car .. regardless of what he was calling you.

[Deep13]

1. agreed. nt

[Raineyb]

2. Bingo!

Spot on!

:thumbsup:

[FSogol]

3. Would that be safe? Remember the cop is going into an unknown situation.

All the cop knew at that point was that someone called reporting a break in.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. But when the cop found out that the "suspect" lived in the home, he should have left it alone

Instead the cop had an ego-trip because he didn't like Gates' tone of voice, then proceeded to arrest Gates.

[FSogol]

13. I agree. n/t

[cboy4]

15. Well do you really think cops show up to every ringing burglar alarm at a

homes (know how many times those go off?) and order the family at gunpoint to lay down on the front lawn while they sort things out?

Of course not.

You have to assess the situation .. look at who has a cane .. look at who is a senior citizen.. look at who looks overly nervous ... ask yourself if these people are really burglarizing this house, why aren't they making a break for it? Are they really just going to stand here at allow me to hook them up for a felony.

It's called common sense and training and experience ... something cops should have.

[FSogol]

18. Your post prompts the cop to say "good evening sir" in an unknown situation

That's very naive and would result in a lot of injured or dead cops.

I agree that the cop didn't handle the situation right, but your scenario puts the cop at risk.

[sandnsea]

22. That's exactly what cops do all over the country

They go up to a house and when the homeowner appears, they say "good evening sir".

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[FSogol]

26. Not if there was a report of a break in or evidence of a crime in progress. n/t

[Iris]

28. oh, bullshit. Do you really think it's good police procedure to burst onto a scene

and just start acting without assessing the situation?

[quiller4]

38. Oh yes they do

[sandnsea]

39. Does the cop go up to the porch?

He does have to go up to the house to check it out, right?

And when the homeowner says "I live here, can I help you", what do you propose the cop say?

[cboy4]

32. Saying good evening sir is not what gets cops in trouble or hurt.

[Caliman73]

61. He went up and knocked on the door.

What would a cop who knocks on your front door say? "Put your hands up motherfucker!" ...? Cops are paid to put themselves into risky situations. Soldiers are paid to fight too. Should they just carpet bomb villages and cities killing everyone because it is less risky?

When I was working mental health/substance abuse some of the clients were pretty belligerent. I was called some very nasty things and threatened for doing my job of making sure people weren't sneaking illicit drugs or alcohol into the facility and making sure people were taking their prescribed medications and going to counseling. That was my job, that is what I was commissioned to do.

[sandnsea]

21. He did show up at the front door

and that's pretty much what the cop did. It was after the cop was shown the ID and wouldn't leave that Gates got angry.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[ecstatic]

64. You're right. Better to be an asshole first, just to be on the safe side

:sarcasm: :crazy:

[tj2001]

4. Well, criminal profiling shows most break-ins are committed by elderly bronchitic felons on a cane

with pictures of himself strategically prepositioned in the house.
The profiling expert in this case took action based on that data.

[Vickers]

8. The criminal mind is a miraculous thing.

:P

[redqueen]

17. Hahahahaha

[HughMoran]

33. I didn't consider that

Maybe he was a prime candidate for profiling after all!









:rofl:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. LOL

[Starry Messenger]

51. Snarf!

In England it's Hell's Grannies:

[PVnRT]

55. For the win

[MzNov]

5. thank you. nt

[AspenRose]

7. The man had a respiratory infection. I don't think he was yelling at all.

The cop screwed up big time.

[kentuck]

9. Wouldn't he know who was supposed to live at the residence??

Before he went in? Would he not have access to that thru the Lexis-Nexis at the police station?

[cboy4]

20. Hey, I'm even willing to give the cop the benefit of the doubt that he

wasn't going to be able to positively identify Professor Gates .. without seeing ID .. even if he knew a Mr. Gates was the registered home owner.

I don't think the asking of the ID was the problem.

I believe it was how the call was handled, sans the asking for the ID.

[Statistical]

10. I disagree with the first part and agree witht the second.

Is there seriously anyone here who doesn't believe Professor Gates .. appreciating the police were making sure burglars weren't cleaning out his home .. would have happily obliged without causing a scene?

I think it is possible Gates did overreact to the initial contact. Until Gates says something to refute this police report it appears that way.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report

As I turned and faced the door, I could see an older black male standing in the foyer of <removed> Ware Street. I made this observation through the glass panned front door. As I stood in plain view of this man, later identified as Gates, I asked if he would step out onto the porch and speak with me. He replied 'no I will not'. He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police' and that I was 'investigating a report of a break in progress' at this residence. While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed 'why, because I'm a black man in America?'. I then asked if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer.

However lets assume Gates was for lack of a better word, "an ass". Once the Police determined he was the owner and he was inside his property and no threat to anyone the cop should have left.

IMHO I think at this point the cop took it personal. He knew disorderly conduct only applies outside the residence so he convinced Gates to step outside in order to arrest him.

So Gates reacted badly based on the info we have BUT the cop should have taken the "high road", left his card, and drove away. The cop lets emotion get in the way of his job and exercised poor judgment.

[cboy4]

30. No, my point is I think the officer used a tone in which he made Gates

immediately feel like a criminal in his own home, instead of the other way around which would have put him much more at ease.

I suspect the conversation went more like this, or worse, "...sir, I need to see your identification .. we're investigating a report of a break-in in progress..."

Instead of talking like just another person, there was probably a lot of cop cliche speak (you've heard it on the news, "we're looking for the perpetrator (you mean the attacker?), "yea, he was hit in the upper torso (umm, you mean chest??), etc., etc.

[City of Mills]

11. Let's say Prof. Gates said something like this to the officer

Actually, this is what he DID say, in his own words:

I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything.

[cboy4]

23. So what? What's your point?

[sandnsea]

25. After he showed his ID

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[Caliman73]

62. Thanks for the link.

Interesting read.

[fishwax]

37. well, in that case

the officer should have given his name and badge number. And not arrested him.

[cboy4]

72. *******CRICKETS*********

Hey, if you're satisfied with a failed answer ...

[meegbear]

12. That only happens on COPS ...

with the cameras on.

[sandnsea]

24. It's happened to me every time

I've had any encounter with cops. They'd be fired in this town if they did something like that.

[meegbear]

36. It's happened to me every time?

Sounds like they should know you on sight.

[sandnsea]

41. I've lived for 50 years

I've had cops to my door for disturbances in the neighborhood, for thefts out of my car, for a mistaken 911 call one time, when my kid threw a snowball at someone's window, all kinds of things. They've never been anything but polite, even when I wasn't.

[Evoman]

46. Are you black?

[sandnsea]

58. Nope and that's my point

They shouldn't treat Mr. Gates any differently than they do me.

[Fire1]

14. I learned on msnbc this morning that the home of

Dr. Gates had been burglarized while he was out of the country and that's why his door was jammed! Now, in all of this officer's due diligence to 'do his job,' WHERE were the police officers when his home was being burglarized? I suspect whatever transpired
between crowley and Dr. Gates had much to do with the break-in of his home while he was away. Frankly, I don't blame the man b/c MY first question to crowley would have been, 'where in the hell were YOU when the REAL burglars were here breaking into MY house????

[MellowDem]

68. That's idiotic as hell...

Why would you blame a police officer for someone burguralizing the house. The truth is, Gates should not have gotten angry if the cop was being polite. So, even if he just got home from a big trip or even if someone had stolen from his house, he shouldn't have taken it out on an officer. I don't think he should have been arrested, but otherwise he would be in the wrong.

The cops aren't going to catch all burgalaries while you are away, and to get mad at them for it is simply insane.

[redqueen]

16. K&R

[sandnsea]

19. He showed them his Harvard ID & DL

It was when the cop persisted that he got angry.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[MellowDem]

69. Not according to the police report...

which is why we don't know all the facts yet.

[seabeyond]

27. exactly. a lifetime communicating with people, there has never been a time i have not been

able to defuse a persons anger if that is what i chose. and i also know i have the power to escalate. and i know this cop is trained adn experienced in how to do exactly that. so i know the cop purposely had his power trip

[cboy4]

35. Of course ... it's called voice control or verbal judo. A lot of

different names to it.

And if you don't know how to do it, you're going to have a long career of shooting, tasering, pepper spraying, using the baton on, and wrestling with people you deal with on calls.

[sandnsea]

42. And there's always the option to walk away n/t

[seabeyond]

44. exactly. he should have at two points walked away and been done with it, per his report and words

not gates. i am not even using gates version, since the pro cop people refuse all that. i am only going off what the cop gave us. twice, the cop should have simply been done. he didnt. he chose escalation

[Evoman]

48. Exactly! Ha...maybe cops should be forced to work retail for a year.

And if they get any complaints, no job for you.

[seabeyond]

50. lol, not only living in a passionate argumentative family, having a hubby adn children, BUT

i worked as a waitress and manager of a dry cleaners, and coca cola dealing with public always. the most interesting was manager of cleaners. i had to appease customers, owners and employees.... that took skill.

[Hutzpa]

29. Indeed n/t

[HughMoran]

31. Agreed. How many times must this be repeated for the authoritarians here?

I don't fucking get it, but anybody today who persists in defending a cop coming into my home and hauling me off because he doesn't like my "tone" or "attitude" is going directly to ignore. I don't need to have discussions with right-wing morans.

[kestrel91316]

34. K&R

[HardWorkingDem]

43. Try reading the report at The Smoking Gun....

It is clear from the start Gates had some sort of bizarre-celebrity like attitude of "don't you know who I am"....


And the cop tried to walk away but Mr. Gates would not have it and kept screaming.


And frankly, where does it say anywhere police are our doormats?

[justiceischeap]

47. That's assuming the report you're reading is accurate

When I talk about the Bible with people I like to use the following analogy:

Let's pretend you and I are both reporters sent to cover a story of the burning bush. How you interpret the burning bush and how I interpret the burning bush will always be different. We both may agree that the bush is indeed burning but our life histories, personalities, etc. are going to determine the outcome of said story.

The police report was based on the cops experience of the situation. If the cop felt Gates was getting "uppity" that will be reflected in the report. I don't care how many sensitivity courses he teaches his experience as a white male cop is going to be completely different from the experiences of black male professor who has experienced racism most of his life. If I did something that I thought may be questionable I may very well write a report that paints my actions in a better light than the other person.

I'm all for supporting cops but this entire situation just stinks of CYA (cover your ass).

[HardWorkingDem]

56. No, what it stinks of is....

after the arrest was made, most likely the supervisors of the arresting officer knew what was going to happen next - a ton of media attention. I can almost guarantee the arresting officer was told to write a very detailed and thorough report. Which is clear from the report.

Not only that, the information in the second report does not contradict what was in the original report.

But what is so baffling to me is how many here seem completely oblivious to the apparent "don't you know who I am" attitude of Gates. No one here is willing to accept that this man was probably pissed off because his door was locked and took offense at being questioned why he was in his house and blew up from there.

And I agree with you 100 percent about perceptions and accounts recollected, but then you go on to write this,

"I don't care how many sensitivity courses he teaches his experience as a white male cop is going to be completely different from the experiences of black male professor who has experienced racism most of his life."

This seems to plainly state this white cop was doomed from the start and all because he responded to a call for service and dealt with a man who was described as uncooperative and offended to offer proof contrary to how the call started.

[justiceischeap]

65. From his experience in the field, the cop went into that situation

with perceived notions. I'll give you the "don't know who I am" attitude but that doesn't make the fact go away that most likely when they heard there were two black males involved in an attempted break-in, that the cop didn't have it in his mind what type of individual he'd be dealing with. It doesn't matter what your job is, you always have a perceived notion how a repeated situation is going to go. It's human nature. So yes, you could logically state the cop was doomed from the get-go. You could also argue the other side of that statement and say that the black male was doomed from the get-go. Because the perception was that two black males were attempting to break into a home when in fact they were just trying to open a door; a door that belonged to one of the individuals. Add to that an experience of repeated racism and you're going to have two individuals that are most likely going to have a poor experience from the start.

[Lerkfish]

49. :to protect and serve: they aren't our doormats but neither are they our overlords.

[VOX]

53. The report at TSG is that of a cop covering his ass thoroughly. And cops are NOT "our" doormats...

I have much respect and gratitude for any/all officers of the law; of the officers at the scene whohad been properly trained, they would not have badgered Gates.

[cboy4]

54. WHOOSH

That's the sound of my OP flying right over your noggin.

[HardWorkingDem]

57. Again, did you read the report?

Apparently, the cop tried to do something like that but was automatically attacked with accusations of racism and racial profiling.

There is a very common saying about communication and that is most people can't hear while their mouths are moving.

From the report, this man tried to tell Gates why he was there and Gates went from 0 to "you are a racist for asking or even to dare ask why I am here."

[sandnsea]

59. I read both reports and the interview

Did you?

Name AND Badge Number. The cop never said he gave Gates his badge number, certainly not his card.

Crowley did not comply, did not follow Mass law, and that's why Gates yelled at him.

If being yelled at isn't an excuse to punch somebody, it certainly isn't an excuse to arrest somebody.

Do you really think the courts should be clogged with criminal yelling cases?

[cboy4]

66. Sorry. I'll say it again for the 50th time. I don't believe the cop

used non-accusatory language ... something you'd want to do considering for all you know, you're dealing with the rightful homeowner..which the cop obviously was.

Re-read my OP. I spelled it out very simply. It's ridiculous that you're completely overlooking my point in your rush to defend this hothead cop.

[ret5hd]

63. So what! Is it a crime to be an ass? Didn't think so. Did Gates BLOCK the cop from leaving?

Hell no!

The cop should have left...period.

[VOX]

45. Game, set, match. You nailed it, cboy4. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

52. Exactly.

k&r

[Fla Dem]

60. Agree, only reasons I would think the cop took it further was

concern
1. there really were robbers in the house hiding. Or
2. robbers in the house holding someone hostage so Gates would get rid of the cops.

Maybe I watch too much TV, but I would think these are plausible scenarios police are trained for when responding to house break-ins.

[cboy4]

67. The cop took it further after the ID had been displayed and

verified, so I don't think your scenario holds up in this particular situation.

[ret5hd]

71. What a f#%$^&@ fairy tale!!!!

:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

70. Recommend

There is a constant theme is all such cases: A police officer's PRIDE and ARROGANCE become the centerpiece, instead of serving the public.