Did the police act stupidly in arresting Prof. Gates in his home?

[undeterred]

[Xipe Totec]

1. Judge by the results n/t

[Echo In Light]

2. Is "stupidly" the same type of euphemism as tagging Bushco as "incompetent?"

In other words, is it being used to imply the establishment-favored mistake approach, as it affords some degree of cover those who abuse power?

[undeterred]

14. I was actually asking if you would say it just the way

the President did. Sorry for taking soooooooooooo long to answer your question.

[Echo In Light]

15. Gotcha. In that case, "stupidly" was chosen as a less offensive description

It's easy to suggest that someone in a position of authority acts "stupidly" and have many others generally agree with it ... but one will often get a very different response by suggesting that said individual is in fact intentionally, perhaps even routinely so, abusing their position of power. That's when many 'normal' folks will begin to denounce the one who levels the criticism, while protecting the authority figure at the target of it because it violates their authoritarian leanings that always serve to lessen/trivialize abuses of power.

I just wanted to get a fix on where you were going w/that.

[omega minimo]

28. Excellent point

:thumbsup:

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Just to clarify a few facts where was the arrest exactly, and what was the charge? (I've

heard living room and porch for the first part, and disorderly conduct in public as the second.)

[appleannie1]

5. It really does not matter. Gates was on his own property and the minute the cop

ascertained that it was in fact Gate's property, he should have left because his job was done.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. I agree, but I keep wondering if it was outside if that was the basis for

the cop coming up with "public." Was that his line of thinking?

[Blue Diadem]

19. I believe the cop urged Mr. Gates to come out to the porch for that purpose.

The police report speaks of the officer going outside onto the porch and telling Mr. Gates to speak with him out there. He even gives a "reason" for wanting to leave the residence, something about acoustics in the home interfering with his radio transmission. There were several other officers on scene both from Cambridge and the Harvard University Police. That in itself would draw attention since the first officer was in an unmarked vehicle. IIRC, both police reports mention 7 spectators.

I found it strange that they counted the spectators.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Based on the thread about the 4th amendment and the "no expectation of privacy" outside

your home reply in it, and the scenario you described above, that does sound like some sort of entrapment. I think they had to count the spectators to show that there was a public to be incited, since the cops wouldn't count in that case. (As suggested in another thread about a previous case in Mass. that may have been a precedent for dropping the charge.)

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Yes it is pretty clear that Crowley was coaxing Gates ot the door

in order to arrest him outside. This is the part where it goes from unfortunate to 'stinks', where it becomes cops behaving badly.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. porch disorderly conduct

charges dropped
hard to make a case that being upset on one's porch is being disorderly in public.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I've seen people in their yards taken away for screaming matches, so I did

wonder if there is a reason why the Professor was charged for something similar. (And were those police officers who accompanied the screamers also in the wrong? What could the people have done to have been taken away like that?)

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Generally those are screaming matches between two people

and the situation is a domestic abuse situation and the police officer has asked for one or both of the parties to indicate such a complaint.

You can be upset on your porch all you want. Ain't a crime. Disorderly Conduct requires a public event, not a porch event. It would be difficult to make the case that Gates was disturbing the peace, for example by screaming, as it appears he has a respiratory infection and couldn't have screamed loud enough to cause a public disturbance even if he had wanted to. Instead Crowley used the exact DO phrase: 'tumultuous' behavior - which is so completely subjective and ambiguous and again not a problem on ones porch as to be laughable.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. So then what I saw and what happened in the Professor's case are apples and oranges.

Thanks for the clarification. :) I don't know much about the ins and outs of the law and what is applicable and when.

[damntexdem]

4. Yes, and the more that comes out, the stupider it looks.

Shouting, lack of respect, even overreaction, even if they occurred, are still not a crime. And how would you like to be charged with 'disorderly conduct' in your own home?

[sharesunited]

6. Pride is probably better described as foolish. Bad decisionmaking driven by ego.

[NashVegas]

8. Not Stupidly - Maliciously

Totally different thing.

[Echo In Light]

9. Thank you. The OP has ignored my questioning of that.

[JitterbugPerfume]

11. exactly

Respect my authori-TAH

[Cha]

16. Not in my book.."malicious" is

stupid.

[Lars39]

17. Yes.

Calling campus security *after* seeing Gates' ID was for the purpose of assembling witnesses, imo.

[Spazito]

29. That action by Crowley is one I find very interesting...

Why, once Crowley had Dr. Gates identification, both his Driver's license and his University indentification, did he feel the need to call in the campus security?

From Crowley's police report:

Upon learning Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police."

Edited to add: Link to Crowley's report:

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

[Lars39]

30. Purposely keeping Gates wound up until they arrived,

get Gates outside and voila! got an arrest. Couldn't rely on there being total strangers stopping to see what was going on. The campus police were there as witnesses.
Is jurisdiction decided on who you are or where you are?

[cbdo2007]

33. He wanted to make sure the ID was real, as this was all he was given to prove his identity.

Maybe he wasn't familiar with those ID's and wanted to make sure it was legit.

For all the cop knew, someone made up a fake ID cause they knew Gates would be out of town and wanted to rob him.

[Spazito]

35. From Crowley's report, he states the following:

"With the Harvard identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave."

From his own report, it is clear he already knew Dr. Gates was who he was BEFORE getting confirmation (were that to be the reason as posited by your post) from the Harvard University Police. Obviously Crowley did not need the Harvard University Police to be in attendance in order to ascertain Dr. Gates identity.

[cbdo2007]

37. You're cutting some stuff out yourself...

"Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of Harvard University Police. With the Harvard University indentification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave."

Obviously, he hadn't determined the ID was real, as he hadn't confimed it with the HUP yet, and was thus prepared to leave with it.

He isn't saying he was leaving the scene cause everything was finished, he had just called the HUP and they were on their way, and the ID was still in his hand - which is where it would be if you were still conducting your investigation to determine its validity.

[Spazito]

38. He states quite clearly "I was prepared to leave"....

Please point out where, in Crowley's report, he conferred with the Harvard University Police as to confirm Dr. Crowley's identity. I think you will find that 'pertinent' detail missing not only from Crowley's report but also from Officer Figueroa's report.

[cbdo2007]

43. Well he had just called the HUP and had Gates ID in hand when he said that...

So I'm thinking he was going to walk outside of the house at that point and confer with the HUP when they arrived.

and your thinking is that he was going to run and get in his car really fast with Gates ID in hand, and speed off before the HUP get there, which he had just called for, so he can take the ID back to the police station or something?

He may not have had a chance to confer with the HUP because this is at the point that the situation escalated, but his intent was CLEARLY to meet them outside with the ID in his hand.

[Spazito]

44. If, as you have posited, the reason Crowley requested the presence...

of the Harvard University Police in order to confirm the identity of Dr. Gates then that confirmation would be noted in the official report. It was not.

[cbdo2007]

46. I just stated...if you would read the police report...that this is when the issue

escalated so there was never a chance to stand outside having a normal conversation because someone was getting beligerent.

But...there's no way I'm going to win this argument so I'll let you win. Congrats!

There's no point in arguing whether or not 2+2=4 or 2+2=5 when my mind can only reasonably see a scenario where it equals 4.

[Lars39]

36. He wasn't familiar with Harvard IDs? lol

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Stupidly? Yes.

Criminally? Yes.

[TahitiNut]

18. D'oh! Hell, even the fucking PROSECUTOR thought so in dropping the charges!

It's not rocket science, folks. The charge of "disorderly conduct" was ludicrous. Raising your voice IN YOUR OWN HOME is NOT a crime! It doesn't take a law degree to KNOW that disorderly conduct statutes have been challenged and overturned as unconsititutional where NO PUBLIC interest is involved!

[fascisthunter]

48. dropping the charges makes the police look guilty, especially now

if they had a case they wouldn't have dropped the charges. Not too bright...

[cbdo2007]

23. This isn't really the issue.

I believe the police acted stupidly by arresting Prof. Gates in his home, but I think Prof. Gates acted more stupid with his behavior and comments to the police officer beforehand.

The issue doesn't have to do with the arrest itself, because I would vote "Yes" on that - that it was stupid.

Rather, the real question is, was Prof. Gates out of line assuming the cop was treating him a certain way for being black, and should he share in the blame for escalating the situation?

[D23MIURG23]

25. Obviously.

[Scout]

26. if a person is in their home, they can't commit a crime there?

wow, news to me.

so when we were in our home and my husband came after me and tried to beat me, it wouldn't have been a crime because he was in our home?

someone explain this to me.

[merh]

27. That is a crime against you and yes, your husband could be arrested

for that crime.

To carry on like a fool, to cuss and scream and be angry, to freely express outrage in one's own home is not and never will be a crime.

[Scout]

32. you are reasonable ... apparently many people here are not....

stating that he couldn't/shouldn't be arrested because he was in his home.

do you believe that is what Gates did: "carry on like a fool, to cuss and scream and be angry, to freely express outrage" ?

[merh]

34. Yes, I believe he was upset.

He was upset he had to break-in to his own home.

He was upset that a cop was at his house, looking in his windows, asking him what he was doing in his own home.

He was upset when the cop demanded he come outside after he told him he lived there.

He was upset that the cop was accusing him of being a criminal.

I'd be upset too.

[N7255Q]

41. And being upset that he might be considered a possible criminal after someone SAW him

breaking into a house (doesn't matter whose it was) is why he acted like a terribly stupid shit.

[merh]

42. There is NO CRIME in being a terrible, stupid shit.

Freedom of Speech, I get to be an ass in my own home.

Crowley was just as likely to be pissed when he was accused of racial profiling (since he is the trainer for the academy on how to prevent racial profiling). Crowley was just as likely to be angry that he was being accused of being a racist and then that man had the nerve to call the Police Dept and try to report him to the Chief, and he was really calling them and accusing Crowley of being a racist and ...

Two can play that game of the emotions and stupid shits. Thing is, Gates was allowed, it was his home, he did provide identification and Crowley did not. Oh sure, Crowley says he gave Gates his name twice, but he admits the third time (while Gates is on the phone with the dept) he refuses and tells him "you want more information come outside."

Oh, and Crowley has a duty to maintain control, to be the professional and to establish and maintain the peace. He has a higher duty than a citizen, that is what he is trained and took an oath to do.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

49. That may well be true.

The kicker is, Crowley has a higher duty with regards to his behavior than does Gates.

If a cop can be sanctioned or fired because he misbehaved as a citizen, what do you think should happen if he behaves unprofessionally while on a call and in uniform?

[HughMoran]

40. OK then

I guess that's it then.

[TorchTheWitch]

31. other - he was arrested outside the home

and none of us know what happened in order to make any determination about anything in this matter.

[HughMoran]

39. In case anybody is wondering

I voted "yes"

:rofl:

[TheKentuckian]

47. Why are "we" working so hard to either excuse the cop or to elevate Gates' to equal accountability?

Of course the cop acted stupidly and everyone KNOWS he did, including his bosses.