How much would it cost for us to buy they loyalty of blue dogs for progressive issues?

[yurbud]

I sincerely doubt that any of the blue dogs are dragging their feet on healthcare reform out of ideological conviction.

It is far more likely that they are driven not only by donation from the insurance and pharma industry, but the prospect of juicy salaries as board members, CEO's, lobbyists, consultants, and lawyers for those same companies when they leave office.

Therefore, I wonder how much it would cost to make them forget about those after-the-fact bribes and grow a progressive conscience.

[natrat]

1. you are too nice, i bet they have fat cayman accounts filled by bribery already

i would say it would be a bidding war and big biz has a ton of money so it would be like one of those out of control ebay auctions. I think they are probably getting 3-5 million a piece under the table, but who knows maybe its way more

[yurbud]

2. I don't think they even need to be given the money under the table--they know they will be rewarded

after the fact.

They know what Blago didn't: it's all done with a wink and a nod, and the deposits are made after no one is looking.

[natrat]

16. or for the wall street crooks it's buy this stock at 11 am tomorrow, nudge nudge wink wink

[customerserviceguy]

3. You forgot one

Won't happen, because they want to be re-elected by districts that barely voted them in over a Repuke.

Not everyone with a "D" after their name can lead the battle charge, until they've had a few successful re-election campaigns under their belt.

[yurbud]

8. often the opposite is true--voters would accept a more progressive candidate but...

business interests force a blue dog down their throat.

or some potential pol sees the lay of the political land and realizes he can only get elected if he runs as a democrat, so he hangs some liberal drapes like supporting gay marriage, but on economic issues is as amoral and self-dealing as any republican.

A good case in point is California's Dianne Feinstein.

Our other senator is the very progressive Barbara Boxer, who was re-elected by a wider margin than Feinstein.

But Feinstein does the chamber of commerce's bidding (as well as enriching her own husband), so it is tough to get rid of her.

[customerserviceguy]

11. "Force" a Blue Dog down their throats?

When's the last time you saw anybody standing over your shoulder at the ballot box, gun in hand?

I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that business interests can buy enough ad time for a Democratic candidate to tip the balance in an election, but they do so by running to the fears and predjudices of the people living in the particular district. You will never get an urban-style progressive Democratic representative from the vast majority of Blue Dog districts, if one were ever nominated, a moderate GOP'er would just win the seat.

For years, Rethugs have known that you have to give a little something to each group in your base, some child tax credits for baby-machine fundies, some obscure tax breaks for the country-clubbers, some defense spending for the pro-war types, etc. And further, you have to stop each group from whining about what the other one got by explaining patiently that if the other side won, you'd never get your little piece of the pie from them.

It's only when they forget that strategy do they lose in marginal districts. And then those districts become our problem with Blue Dogs, unless we learn to see the BD's as an opportunity rather than a problem.

[yurbud]

14. we might be disagreeing over definitions. It is possible for an economic progressive to get elected

in a conservative area if they are conservative on cultural issues like abortion and gay marriage, or at least leave those alone.


An instructive case of a blue dog being shoved down voters throat was Cegelis vs. Duckworth for Henry Hyde's seat. Cegelis, a strong progressive, ran against Hyde when the party thought it was a lost cause and surprisingly made a pretty good showing.

Henry Hyde (R) 55.8%
Christine Cegelis (D) 44.2%

Rather than back her in the next election, Rahm Emanuel recruited Tammy Duckworth, who was more business compliant and vague on opposition to the Iraq War, and poured money into her primary campaign against Cegelis. She did a few points better than Cegelis, but instead of running against the powerful, long-serving Hyde--Duckworth was running against a relative unknown newcomer.

Roskam: 85,821 51.3%
Duckworth: 81,591 48.7%

If Cegelis did so well against the powerhouse Hyde, what are the chances she would have swept the floor with the new guy?

[depakid]

10. Ironically, they're precisely the people who will lose seats if health care and other reforms

are watered down or defeated.

Having watched these types for some years, seems to me that in addition to having few principles- and an eagerness to take the money, they're just not very bright.

Could be that's a prerequisite in their districts.

[customerserviceguy]

12. Only if progressives take it out on them

for "watering down" legislation.

I've spent a fair amount of time lurking over in Freeptardland (although not for the last month or so, the whining over the Letterman/Palin thing was just too much to take), and while they used to bitch, whine and moan about the "RINOs", they really do miss having the numbers to get through most of the legislation they wanted, at least with a President of their own party at the helm. They also miss not being able to block the initiatives of a President of the opposite party.

Sometimes the very best you can do in a conservative district is to have a Blue Dog. That individual will not lead the charge on progressive legislation, but they can often be counted on to vote for at least some of the legislation that the Democratic Party supports. They can often be counted on in the Senate to confirm a nominee by a Democratic President, even though they will sometimes support a GOP nominee who is going to win anyway.

It's a big country, and it needs a lot of time to change some parts of it. The Rethugs knew that when they set out to take Congress from us in 1994, and only their bickering over how far to hound Bill Clinton did them in.

[depakid]

13. "only their bickering over how far to hound Bill Clinton did them in."

What finally did them in was their hypocrisy and legacy of failure.

That, and the timid Dems inability to call a spade a spade.

[ejpoeta]

4. no matter how much we could come up with the monied interests have more.

[crickets]

6. Yep.

[Quantess]

5. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. (n/t)

[stray cat]

7. Maybe a good plan that actually offers concrete realistic solutions would help

[yurbud]

9. does "realistic" mean preserving maximum profit margins for private insurance companies?

When Republicans, blue dogs, and even so-called "moderates" say realistic, they don't mean that a solution has a realistic chance of succeeding, only that their cronies have a realistic chance of profiting.

[hobbit709]

15. A lot more than their corporate owners give them.