Racial Profiling -- My Personal Story

[Renaissance Man]

After reading the comments on this allegedly Progressive website regarding racial profiling, a few things come to mind regarding the utter incapacity of some people to consider life experiences outside of their own. Sometimes, I really wonder about DU. I really wonder. Anyway, here's my story (this is just one of three times that I can honestly say that I have been profiled by policemen).

In 2005, I happened to be driving on Interstate 10 right outside of Lake Charles, LA, and I was pulled over by a small town cop from the Sulphur Police Department who happened to be driving on the Interstate. From my vantage point, I knew that I was not disobeying any traffic laws, and knowing my driving record was clean, I had nothing to worry about.

Well, small town cop (white male, of course) tells me that I was pulled over because I was "following too close" behind the vehicle in front of me. The policeman began to ask me a litany of questions regarding my reasons for travel (as I was traveling in a rental vehicle). Even though I knew that this was none of his business, I decided to go ahead and tell the truth for my reasons for travel (to visit my significant other). Along with my driver's license, I gave him both my university ID and my insurance ID card.

The policeman called in to have my driver's license searched. What he came up with? Absolutely nothing. After realizing that I had a clean driving record, he then asks if I had a problem with him searching the vehicle. At this point, I'm thinking, "You have to be kidding me! How did a traffic stop for "following too close" turn into a search of the entire vehicle?" I was confident, because I knew that the only thing in the vehicle were books (that I'd brought with me to study) and a couple of bags of clothing.

The police officer proceeded to search the vehicle, and after searching through all of my bags (in the trunk) and the interior of the vehicle, he found absolutely nothing. You would think that at this point, having found absolutely nothing, the officer would decide to quit while he was ahead? No. He decided to frisk me, but did he find anything? Absolutely not. The officer decided, at this point, that the entire traffic stop was pointless and allowed me to go on my way and made up some idiotic anecdote about me being safe and not following too close behind other vehicles when driving.

So you see, my story, and that of other men of color are left largely untold or completely ignored, and instead of recognizing that everyone's basic civil and Constitutional rights should be protected, some (even some on DU) are willing to immediately throw themselves behind the blue wall of silence and discard rights of others if they aren't personally affected.

Personally, it's disgusting...

... about as disgusting as a woman murdering her two children, initially given the benefit of the doubt after having lied, stating that a black man abducted them.

... about as disgusting as a Young Republican bruising herself with the letter B on her cheek during the height of an election to claim that a big, scary black man (who supported President Obama) attacked her at an ATM, initially being given the benefit of the doubt until proven to be a race-baiting liar.

... about as disgusting as a sitting President being alleged to be a non-citizen, even after providing an ample amount of evidence to the contrary.

... about as disgusting as a 57-year old distinguished Harvard University professor (who walks with a cane) being harassed and arrested (in his own home), after proving that he was on his own property.

Attorney General Holder was right (and I'm sure that he also has his personal story, just like Prof. Gates and Pres. Obama on being profiled). We are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing these things. The truth may not be pretty or likable, but it's the truth. Perhaps maybe we can get our collective heads out our asses and start to confront some harsh realities of what being a man of color means in America.

[MrScorpio]

1. You know that you had every right NOT to consent to that search?

As you've stated, he had no probable cause. Traffic violations are NOT probable causes.

He was looking for a reason to arrest another n----- on the highway.

All in all, I'm happy to learn that the situation did not turn out badly.

[TexasObserver]

6. Unfortunately, they'll just drag it out and make it worse.

I don't advocate letting them search, but one should know that a standard response by the cop is to call out a K-9 unit to sniff the vehicle. They'll keep you there an hour doing that.

This is how life is in the police state GOP judges have given us.

[MrScorpio]

9. You are quite correct

One should know all the tactics the cops use.

[bobbolink]

83. Tactics...like completely tearing the car apart and destroying it!

I know people who've had the cops tear the whole dash apart... literally.--leaving the shattered pieces around....and not a damned thing they can do.

One was a homeless person.... his crime was living in his car.

Where's the outrage?

[midnight]

101. Time to shut down the tactics.

[slampoet]

58. +1

[malaise]

14. Did he really?

Maybe on paper but reading the level of harassment he faced, he may have ended up dead.

[MrScorpio]

17. That's the nature of the Fourth Amendment

The OP did surrender it, yes. But, I've pointed out that he didn't have to.

Frankly, I think it scary of the prospect of the outcome exercising this right is that one could somehow lose their life.

Is this what we're members of DU for? Give up our rights or else, our lives?

[malaise]

26. In a real sense many minority kids are socialized to give up

their 4th Amendment rights and stay out of prison.

And you're right - DU members should be fighting this injustice.

[varelse]

54. Or just to stay alive (nt)

[HillWilliam]

22. True, he had every RIGHT, but as one who lived in Louisiana

I'll have to say this: a person of color had better not refuse. He'd never have seen the light of day again if he had. That's just the reality there. I'm thinking you know this; I'm just amplifying for those who might not understand how it really is down there.

I have a similar story to the OP's. I was travelling on I-10 on the way to move to Florida from Texas to take care of my dad who had just been diagnosed with cancer. I had to give up my career, load up a U-Haul with what I could take and head south. I was a mile under the speed limit at night, minding my own on a mostly-deserted highway, making steady time about 2am. Suddenly behind me, for no reason I could discern, blue-blue-blue. For nearly an hour, I was questioned, searched, queried, taken apart, and the cop finally did say, "You really ARE moving to Florida."

"Yes, sir, my daddy is terminally ill and I have to go take care of him. There is no other choice."

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"No, sir. After 45 minutes, you still haven't said."

"Well, I see your Harley in the back of the U-Haul here. You aren't used to driving a box-truck are you?"

"No, sir." (Obfuscation. I drive anything from a bike to a box-truck. I didn't want to disagree with anything at this point.)

"You were slightly to the right in your lane."

"Oh."

"You're free to go."

A few years later after my dad passed, I had a contract job in Louisiana. I learned that sort of thing was more than common and a real money-maker for the state. People of color -- and much less often, poor whites -- are prime targets because they're the least able to defend themselves. They're easy to put into a privatized prison system and become vehicles for slave labor and profit. Race and class count for much. If you're white and drive a Caddy down there, it's doubtful you'll ever suffer the same indignity. If you're black and drive a Caddy, get ready; build cop-stop-time into your daily commute. Sadly, it's an accepted fact of life.

If I didn't appear to be a deeply-tanned white-guy (I'm an Appalachian of Melungeon descent, nominally white, but olive-skinned), things most CERTAINLY would have gone differently. Living there and seeing others caught up in it and hearing story after story is all the convincing I need.

Nearly the same scenario happened to me in sourthern Mississippi. THAT time I was never so scared in my life. Two friends and I were sitting on the side of the Interstate for over an hour being taken apart and interrogated by two of the biggest (and handsomest) patrolmen I've ever seen. There's a well-known, but never-discussed "Deliverance" thing going on there. G'd help you if you have a rainbow or HRC sticker on your car. IT IS A FACT there is every chance you may be stopped, raped at gunpoint, then charged with any number of sexual crimes after the officers have gotten their nuts. You don't hear about this, but it's an ugly stone fact.

It's also one that NOBODY outside the LGBT community gives a damn about. So it goes on, not discussed, unchallenged, and unabated.

So the patrolmen questioned us, then huddled together; questioned us more, huddled more, repeatedly. The three of us were crapping up our backs knowing full well what could happen next. Luckily, we were finally allowed to go. There were more of us than there were of them -- only being a preponderance of witnesses saved us. But if there had been only one, it absolutely would have gone differently. That scene traumatized me so badly, I still have trouble talking about it. I WILL NEVER EVER EVER set foot in Mississippi again. EVER.

The OP is absolutely, positively correct. If you're a person of color or if they suspect (or know) you're gay, you don't have a chance in hell if you refuse the least of the officer's whims, whether they're legal, lawful or not. It doesn't matter what the Constitution says: in the middle of the night with no witnessess, you're totally at their mercy.

And they know it.

[MrScorpio]

24. There is the best practices America and then, there is the REAL America

Thanks for the realness

[HillWilliam]

29. I appreciate your support

It's sad that there's a contingent on DU who will try to call bullshit on what many of us have first-hand seen or lived. The last thirty years since the far-right started taking over -- hell, scratch that. The last forty, since the Republican party made a deal with the devil and warmly embraced the Dixiecrats (and the Klan), then they warmly embraced so-called-christian extremists in the 80s and 90s, racism and homophobia have become normalized. People aren't checking themselves and those who call themselves Christian are conveniently ignoring those Red Letters in the Gospels.

It won't stop until we shine a light and keep on shining a light on each and every instance of injustice. If it takes shame to put the perps in their place, I'm good with it.

How can America hold itself as some kind of moral beacon to the world when we treat each other like shit? I don't see it happening. I despise a hypocrite and right now, the way we treat our elderly, our young, our minorities, our sick and disabled, our veterans, and our poor, measured against the way we talk about "morality" and "family values" simply doesn't add up. I lay that firmly at the doorsteps of the right wing, the wackogelicals, the Blue Dogs, C Street, K Street, and our lapdog media.

But it's up to the rest of us to change that.

Thanks for extending your hand. I'm reaching back.

[omega minimo]

56. and women.

"I despise a hypocrite and right now, the way we treat our elderly, our young, our minorities, our sick and disabled, our veterans, and our poor, measured against the way we talk about "morality" and "family values" simply doesn't add up."


Great posts HillWilliam. So glad you're at DU. :toast:

[Bluenorthwest]

28. When we are beaten and raped, America shrugs.

[HillWilliam]

30. Hell, a good part of America cheers

when LGBTs are beaten and raped. African Americans have learned to find their voice and fight back. What have we learned?

We have trouble organizing a tea-dance and getting people to show up in our own community.

Unless there's cocktails being served.

We'll show up for a party, but when there's danger or real work to be done, you'll get the very few who are always there to carry the load. Nearly thirty years of activism, protests, fund-raising, food-banking, thousands of miles on my vehicles, thousands of letters written, hands shaken, and effort expended drove this home with me. I always saw the same few faces when it came to doing the work and the same big crowds at the celebration parties. Angry about it and cynical? A little bit, yes I am.

Until we get our nerve up, channel our righteous anger together in productive ways, quit feeding the cocktail-and-finger-sandwich crowd who've taken millions in our precious money and produced few advancements in rights, we'll stay in the same, beaten-down morass we're in.

I'll grab your hand, friend, if you'll grab mine. There's fight in this ol' sumbitch yet. I've slowed down, but I haven't quit. :)

[BlooInBloo]

40. :(

[PSzymeczek]

79. I won't stop in Mississippi, on principle alone.

even though I have a cousin in Jackson who is a lawyer.

[WillieW]

117. Smart!

[Hutzpa]

38. A black man with a police officer

in a secluded area not co-operating is something I will not advice.....you're kidding
right(?) He could have make things worse for himself by refusing to obey his command.

That shows lack of understanding the situation by suggesting that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

63. The police believe that if you don't consent to their searches, you have

something to hide.

[quakerboy]

74. I read your post

but what I read is "disturbing the peace and resisting arrest"

Do you really have that right? not in technicality or legality, but do you really?

[Butch350]

97. One big YAWN....

Here are some hankies...and here's your beer.

[MrScorpio]

99. Ok, Butchie. What's up with the major 'tude? nt

Is there something that you need to tell me? I'd appreciate it if you blurt it out.

[TexasObserver]

2. Recommend

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. Thank you for this excellent post. It isn't just a racial issue, it's a power issue. Where I live,

in Westchester Co. NY (mostly a middle to upper middle class suburb of NYC), the police stop young drivers (of all races) without probable cause. I can't count on my hand how many times I've heard about it here, and my son is included in that. The kids here HATE the cops for this harassment. How can these young people grow up and respect law enforcement and trust them when they themselves experienced abuse of their power?

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Happens here too

When my oldest was 16, he was pulled over and taken in by a cop who happened to be my 11 year old's scout leader. Cops told us some bullshit story about a burglary in the neighborhood where my son and his friend were driving. And they took both kids into custody, towed and searched the car, scared the shit out of the kids, etc.

So DH and I go down to the police station to pick up our son and the cop/scout leader is waiting for us and tried to convince us he has done our 16 year old son a favor. We should be glad it was him who pulled the kids over, (since he knew our family), and hopefully our son has learned a lesson. I ask what lesson? That cops can fuck with you even when you haven't done anything wrong? DH talked to cop/scout leader and told him not to ever harass our son again or we would file a complaint.

The 11 year old had been complaining about scouts and so we said okay you can quit and we called council and said we didn't want him in a troop with an authoritarian cop as the leader. Cop calls us and tries to smooth things over. DH says if you call again we will have our attorney contact you.

Sure enough, cop pulls our son over again for no reason so we call and file a complaint. A few weeks later I call to find out what is going on with complaint and am told cop is no longer with dept. A few days later, there is an article in our local paper that this cop has been accused of sexually harassing and assaulting a woman and has resigned from the force. Turns out he arrested a woman for a DUI and told her if she would have sex with him he would let her go. She says no and he takes her in and then beats her up in the cell, claims she was attacking him.

He went to court and got probation.

I could tell so many stories. But I am 55 years old and I have known exactly TWO cops who are good people. One was head of security at Camp Casey when I was there and is one of the most decent human beings I have ever known. Other is DARE cop at my school.

[Patiod]

45. My SO used to get ticketed for DWP in a wealthy area

Driving while poor. Out on Philadelphia's Main Line

Only while driving his (beaten-up) car, never in my (relatively new) car. Cops know that poor people are the most likely to have expired inspections, registrations, licenses, etc, and therefore are good for some revenue (like the rich people in their communities can't afford to pay their salaries). Ugh.

[Nay]

87. Thank you. My 26-yr-old son was constantly harassed by police from

the time he was 18. He's white, and just last year was pulled over after pulling out of a party store parking lot for having BALLOONS in his car. :wtf: Now, I don't know how the hell anyone else gets balloons home, and of course other ppl were pulling out of the parking lot ALL DAY with fucking balloons in their cars, but somehow, they picked HIM to bother. When I talked to a cop friend, he was embarrassed -- called it a "bullshit stop."

And they wonder why so many people can't stand the cops. Blacks, Hispanics, the young, you all have my deepest sympathy. It's crappy out there.

[ChiciB1]

4. Oh, Stop Already....PLEASE!!! Sometimes Police Go Too Far... Sometimes

this is a response I gave last night and got no reply! I agree with you, even though I'm trying to be as "fair" as possible giving MY experience. Below is what I said... not trying to honk my own horn, just trying to be objective in some way. But RACISM lives and breathes! I live in Florida AND in a county that's has a pretty bad reputation when it come to cops and racism. It's difficult NOT to see a certain reality. I'm just giving a yea/nay thought! I don't think I can take much more of the "fracture" of all things tearing America apart. I REALLY don't!!!!!

people protest too much! Excuse my language because it's not nice to say... but the WHOLE situation got FUCKED UP, and now ALL ANYONE is talking about is THIS situation!

It happens ALL THE TIME, over and over here and in other countries! But here in America we just won't let it go!

Blacks ARE discriminated against, much more than needed, BUT the POLICE have also been known to do some "very bad things" just because they can! I've seen it happen and felt like giving them some "in your face" lip! But could I do it without getting arrested??? Very probably NOT!!

FWIW, I'm a little upset with the neighbor, what about her?? I have tried to stay out of this whole mess, and I freely admit to switching the channels when the incessant talking keeps going on, so maybe the neighbor HAS made a statement of some sort!

But let's face it... Minorities do get the short end of the "stick" quite a bit, more than I think necessary, and I'm a WHITE WOMAN! And I myself have seen the police do some crappy stuff, but ONCE when I was in a minor accident, the highway patrolman was so very nice. I was very upset (not physically) and he was so concerned about my "mental distress" that he actually wrote his home phone number on the back of the ticket he gave me and said to call "if I wanted someone to talk to!" He told me that he and his wife experienced a similar incident and he UNDERSTOOD!

Told me he didn't want to give me the ticket (it WAS my fault) a small accident, I braked to avoid hitting squirrel and my car skidded into the front right tire of another. But he told me if HE didn't give me the ticket, his SUPERVISOR would!

Sometimes there REALLY are two or three different sides of a story!

I'd rather talk about ENDING WARS... DADT, DOMA, Extraordinary Rendition, Habeas Corpus, HEALTH CARE, The Shredding Of Our Constitution, Not Prosecuting HIGH Profile Criminals, A Democratic Congress that can't get it's ACT together enough, even when they CONTROL ALL the branches of GOVERNMENT, Bailing out corrupt Corporations, The Bankruptcy Bill, the SOUR economy, PEOPLE losing jobs and living on the street... on and on and on! The endless money exchanges from our politicians who prop themselves up as Pariahs of Nobility (both D's & R's), yet take any and every dime offered just to get RE-ELECTED!

Racism still exists and the many policemen actually ARE corrupt AND stupid and think because they wear a blue suit they are ALL POWERFUL! But I'm not really sure this is one of those times! Seems this has fractured, or at the very least opened wounds that still lay beneath the surface, that I truly wonder will EVER go away! I lived in Texas when I became aware of what MLK was talking about. I tuned in late to the issue, but I UNDERSTOOD it completely. I as a housewife with two children and saw what that kind of RACISM looked like. Had friends in school who traveled to other towns and weren't able to be served because they were black, but were the TOP players on our teams because of color. I UNDERSTAND Gates, I don't think he should have been arrested. But maybe we just saw an eruption of two hot heads! I don't know for sure. Either way, it wasn't a pretty picture. But neither was Rodney King or O.J.!

I've said my piece, and I don't want to say anymore! Attack me, support me, but this is just how I feel!

BOHICA!!!

[Renaissance Man]

5. Who said the following words?

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

So, yeah, of course, let's leave this conversation for another day. You're doing precisely what the OP suggests that you not do -- willfully discard or place this issue on the backburner.

Is multi-tasking that hard?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. You Did The Right Thing

However I would have got his badge number and reported him. And if he wasn't disciplined I would have contacted the local NAACP office. Being a cop is a tough job but a cop that jerks around decent people unnecessarily is just making it harder for the good cops.

[ChiciB1]

12. I UNDERSTAND, I REALLY Understand! Could Seem Like I'm Shoving

this under a rug, but let it be known from my lips to all! I OBJECT to injustice of many, many stripes and probably ALWAYS WILL!

I don't mean to offend, this has really torn me apart... I'm actuaLLy taking anti-acids these days, on top of the meds given to me for ANXIETY!!!

Yes, I'm fortunate I DO have some decent health care... thanks to my husband's Un ion! Another issues already!!!

[ChiciB1]

33. Oh, I Also Need To Add To My Comment... THIS Lady... No This Litigious

BITCH decided to sue me for the MAXIMUM amount of my insurance coverage, $100,000.00! This happened TWO years ago on July the 24th! I just had to give a deposition on July the 23rd, a few days ago! She claiming an old injury resurfaced even when her OWN doctor testified this IS NOT true!!

I KNOW it's not the fault of the police, it's the CRAZY woman! My insurance offered her $4,000.00 which is even more than she deserves. She had a dent on the front RIGHT side of her car! I NEVER even FIXED my 1991 Toyota Celica because the insurance company wouldn't even GIVE me full coverage.

Yes, this is WAY off topic! But YOU were discriminated against... JUST BECAUSE, and it's an outrage!

I would have been furious, just as I am that my situation has gone on for TWO FREAKING YEARS!!

[Butch350]

113. Sounds like you got a little chip on your shoulder. (IMHO)

[Chulanowa]

36. "But I'm not really sure this is one of those times!"

You know, I hear that an awful lot when stories like this come up. "Gosh, I know there's racism and stuff, but i'm not sure this is one of those times!"

Well, thank you for your input.

Also... You're a white woman and the highway patrolman was very nice to you?

You don't say. Really?

[Number23]

59. Do you truly not get that you are doing EXACTLY what the OP accused certain white people of doing?

Oh, Lord the irony! The CRUSHING irony!!

I'd rather talk about ENDING WARS... DADT, DOMA, Extraordinary Rendition, Habeas Corpus, HEALTH CARE, The Shredding Of Our Constitution, Not Prosecuting HIGH Profile Criminals, A Democratic Congress that can't get it's ACT together enough, even when they CONTROL ALL the branches of GOVERNMENT, Bailing out corrupt Corporations, The Bankruptcy Bill, the SOUR economy, PEOPLE losing jobs and living on the street... on and on and on! The endless money exchanges from our politicians who prop themselves up as Pariahs of Nobility (both D's & R's), yet take any and every dime offered just to get RE-ELECTED!

From the OP: After reading the comments on this allegedly Progressive website regarding racial profiling, a few things come to mind regarding the utter incapacity of some people to consider life experiences outside of their own.

And this part of your post Had friends in school who traveled to other towns and weren't able to be served because they were black, but were the TOP players on our teams because of color. is just nonsensical foolishness.

[ChiciB1]

89. Obviously, You Completely Miss My Point... But Then Who Cares?

I don't belong here anyway! I'm NOT going to try to triangulate words with you and others who seem to want to fight, regardless of what or how anything is said.

I never thought things would turn so ugly here at DU, but unfortunately it has! Some of us who started coming here to "discuss" our ideas or differences are now being told to basically "get off the porch" because we can no longer run with the BIG DOGS!!

And now I'll wait to see the reply that goes like this.... BWWWWWAAAAAA, what a little shit I am! But you haven't hurt my feelings, I just see more ugliness being perpetrated here. I'm getting quite used to it!

Many people have left DU because of this kind of stuff, and I think many more will.

Good Night, And Good Luck!

From Pollyanna Goody Two Shoes! But I've been in the trenches for many many years! I'm just sorry I said I was a white woman!

[Number23]

93. Your cluelessness is blanketed only by your hysteria.

Good Night, And Good Luck!

See ya! :hi: (this is a wave bye-bye and not hello)

[tabatha]

70. Well, stay off the thread if you want to talk about something else.

[pnwmom]

84. The woman who called in the complaint wasn't actually a neighbor who would

have known him, she was just someone who was working in the area and saw two people trying to get in the door, one person trying to shove it open with his shoulder. (The lock was broken so Mr. Gates couldn't use his key -- and he'd had break-ins before.

If anyone saw that going on at my front door, I would want someone to report it. Wouldn't you?

I think the problem came later, with how the police handled it after they knew who Mr. Gates was.

[Seldona]

98. 'Minorities do get the short end of the "stick" quite a bit, more than I think necessary,'

'Blacks ARE discriminated against, much more than needed'

That is, BY FAR, the most racist thing I have ever read on DU. Just how much discrimination against 'blacks' is 'needed' and 'necessary?'

People protest to much? You wonder why?

:wtf:

[annabanana]

8. My guess is that it would be hard to find an adult black man in America

who has NOT been profiled. The baseline in this Country is racist. It remains the exception for a "colorblind" standard of treatment being applied.

[Butch350]

10. Did you yell and scream and protest? No!? The results?

He let you the fuck go! Now what do you think would have happened while knowing you had no weapons or drugs
or what ever in your car but you started to protest and yell at him for searching your vehicle unnecessarily.

Think about what could have happened. HE WOULD HAVE HAULED YOUR ASS TO JAIL.

The best way to combat this type of situation is not to act sterotypical (sp).

When you give the police no reason to react - they will not.

Believe me. I know. I am a 59 year old Black Male who grew up thru the 50's and 60's
and I've faced my share of profiling and I used to protest, and that my friend got my ass in trouble.

But when I used my intelligence and tack. I got away unscathed. Being macho won't help at all.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Yeah, He Should Have Complied, Then Went On His Way. And Reported Him Later

Idiot cops mess it up for the decent ones who really just want to protect folks, collect their pay, and go home to their family... Idiot and good cops cops come in all colors.

[Renaissance Man]

13. I think even you missed the point...

... and that's really sad.

How did a traffic stop for "following too close" end in me being frisked, the entire car being searched, and my driving record being scanned, and no traffic citation? This police officer had other motives -- ensuring the safety of other motorists was the LEAST of them.

You're feeding into the meme that somehow being macho (some call it uppity or lippy, or whatever) equates with actually asserting your constitutional and Civil rights. In this situation, that police officer was wrong. Me not "getting in trouble" came at a cost of my own personal dignity and integrity being questioned, even if only temporarily.

That may not mean much to you, but it means the world to me.

[Butch350]

16. Get over your self and play the hand life deals you...

it's better to swallow pride than swallow blood.

I didn't miss the point. Obvisously young man - YOU DID! Nuf from me.

Next time, just cuss the cops out! ok?!

[Jim Sagle]

44. Condescend much, fuckhead?

[nini]

71. maybe one day you'll quit sitting in the 'coloreds only' section

and move to the front of the bus.

Is 'yes massa' in your vocabulary too?

You completely missed the OP's point - he did what you say he should have but you completely missed being humiliated simply because of color and the officer's right to cross a line by the nature of his job.

[ejbr]

95. Another black man concurs

you definitely missed the point. It's about profiling. Should the officer in the Gates case have asked for identification once Gates indicated it was his home? If so, can we claim in all honesty that this same officer would have asked a white man of his age and stature to show his identification under these circumstances?

No, being belligerent with the cops is not the answer, the author of this post obviously agrees or he might have done just that in his scenario. His point is that some here at DU seem to think that we should never question -- not argue, confront, or retaliate -- but question the actions of the police. It is truly a simple concept.

(I can only hope you won't start typing gibberish to me now)

[rucky]

34. You also waived your Constitutional rights

against unwarranted search and seizure. And I don't see you having a real choice in that matter - knowing that if you did not give the cop permission to search your car without probable cause, he would've found a reason to haul you in or worse.

[knixphan]

52. I almost got locked up in GA...

For merely beginning to formulate an intelligent verbal defense against the bogus charge being hurled at me.

Self-preservation kicked in, and I swallowed it.

'Sure, officer, I think you should write me a citation. Thanks so much.'

I almost committed the sin of being more intelligent than the officer.

[Ms. Toad]

86. Yes - and that is what is saddest.

Not only did that single incident come at the cost of your own personal dignity and integrity being questioned - but I would hazard a guess it started much earlier - probably at your parents knees - learning that you must surrender your own personal dignity and tolerate obscene attacks on your personal integrity. When challenged you must act as if you did something something wrong and are sorry about it. Your life may well depend on it.

Not only is it wrong that it is a matter of survival - but it is wrong that if your parents want you to survive they must cooperate in making sure you learn that lesson. (I've heard horror stories from friends of mine about the lengths they must go to to make sure their sons do everything they can to avoid giving people like the cop you ran into an excuse to what he had every intention of doing in response to the smallest imagined slight.)

You shouldn't have to live this way. :hug:

[ChiciB1]

90. Good For You... I Understand What You're Saying... Racism IS Alive And

really hasn't gone away over all these years. Not wanting to get your ass thrown in jail isn't something to be attacked for. You WERE stopped because of who you were, there's no doubt in my mind about it! But even if you wanted to spit in his face (and that's what I would have been thinking) you probably realized you weren't going to win no matter HOW you tried.

It must have been difficult for you, and I'm just sorry you had to be subjected to it! Holding back must have taken a LOT of strength.

[Number23]

60. "The best way to combat this type of situation is not to act sterotypical"

Sweet Lord in Heaven...

[nini]

72. no shit

amazing to say the least.

[KG]

15. despite the claims to the contrary, police abuse of authority is systemic, not an aberration.

[Karenina]

21. Bingo!

[hobbit709]

18. "Profiling" of any type for the reason of harassment is wrong.

I can't remember how many times I was stopped in the 60's and 70's for the "crime" of having long hair. Made up reasons-usually it was "We had a report of a stolen vehicle matching yours", like anybody would have stolen a beatup old clunker like the ones I drove.
Being strip searched and having everything in your car torn apart to find nothing even after NOT giving them permission. And I've had it happen as often in a city as in a small town.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[L. Coyote]

20. Obviously, Sergeant Crowley acted stupidly!

There are many other forms of police profiling.

I've been VW bus profiled, long hair profiled, hitchhiker profiled, stranger profiled, in a nice neighborhood profiled

.... almost everything except white profiled :rofl:

[conscious evolution]

27. I was white profiled once

I was dropping a colleague off in a not so nice neighborhood once after a evening shift.Cops pulled me over and searched and harassed me.
Said the only reason a white person would be in that part of town after dark was to buy drugs and that he could charge me with something called a DC6. :shrug:
He didn't like it when I told him I could get better drugs in Buckhead.
Nor did he find my stash.Dumb ass pig even picked up my stash box once without realizing what it was.

[chasitynola]

76. Me too...

got pulled over with a group of white kids...we were in high school and dropping off a friend in the 'black' part of town. Cops said the only reason we must have been there was to buy drugs. Then they called the principal of the school and told them we were crackheads. It was unbelievable. I dropped out of that school and enrolled at a school 100 miles away. Had to leave the middle of my senior year and finish somewhere else because of the hassle. Even my favorite teachers thought my best friend and I were on drugs. We laughed at them and they concluded that 'they must be high! look at them laughing!'

Amazing.

And friends here in Louisiana have been arrested for being black and walking down the street without an I.D. That was their only crime. Going to the store on foot without a drivers license. When you live in the projects, you cannot afford to fight back.

[chasitynola]

77. VW bus profiled...

That's a biggie...I drove a 1970 VW bus in my early 20's. Cops would near to wreck to do a u-turn to pull me over! Talk about driving paranoid!!

[L. Coyote]

81. A CHIP told me I was pulled over for weaving. There was a 40 mph side wind!!

Talk about a lame excuse!

[MADem]

25. Well said.

We are a nation of "nothing to see here, move along" cowards.

It's TIME. No, it's past time.

[Hav]

31. Thank you for your story.

John Grisham once let one of his characters say something like "When people see me, they don't see a man. They see a black man."
I guess I should learn to accept that I was and always will be judged first by the colour of my skin, it's still irritating whenever it happens though. Even in minor incidents, one feels humiliated or one gets the feeling that one is a second class citizen.

[yellowwood]

32. My Story

Okay, my family is white. We belong to an organization that hosts foreign visitors.
A few years ago on Thanksgiving, my family, children included, took our very dark-skinned visitor to visit some of our other relatives in the Midwest.
We were driving on a highway near a small town in the middle of nowhere when the sheriff and his partner stopped us over an insignificant problem, like a brakelight that didn't work.
Nothing so unusual there, but while the sheriff was examining the usual documentation, I looked back to see his partner behind us with his gun pulled and aiming at our car. That was a first! The only conclusion that we have ever been able to draw is that our dark-skinned guest was sitting in the back seat. Guess they didn't find anything suspicious, and we drove on. I wish now that I had complained to high heaven.
So, yes, we believe that racial profiling exists.

[Patiod]

46. when it happens to you, it opens your eyes

I'm white, and to be honest, in my mind, I used to dismiss claims of racism as oversensitivity, or excused them, thinking people had mis-interpreted other peoples' actions. Until....

We used to take care of a pretty little girl who was 1/2 Indonesian and 1/2 Polish. Dark skin and long, bone-straight dark hair.

One day for ballet, I put her hair up in a tight bun like all the other little dancers had, and then we went shopping. I was treated rudely in several boutiques where I had alway been treated well in the past. Then at the Wawa (think 7-11), the black kid behind the counter was sweet as pie to my little friend, where he was usually surly to me.

Then it hit me - they all thought she was black - the shop ladies AND the checker, and it changed their behavior. And it wasn't like I was LOOKING for racism - it didn't occur to me that she looked more African than Indonesian until the checker was so kind to her, and I realized that, with her hair pinned back so tightly that you couldn't see its texture, she COULD be black.

A small thing, really, but it hit me like a brick upside the head.

Now when I hear claims of racism, I understand them the way I never did before.

[Pavulon]

35. I got lost in Durham

after a ballgame and hitting the bars. I was a dd. This was before GPS was turn by turn.

Ended up in a questionable neighborhood. Police pulled me over and the black officer asked why I was there. Put a light in my face, routine. Told him I was lost. He said "99% of the time a white boy here after midnight is buying drugs"

After he figured out I was not buying crack he sent me towards i40.

Now if I had told him to go get fucked I wonder if he would have been polite?

[Gator_Matt]

64. Exactly

I'm white and got stopped by a cop while trying to drop a friend off at his apartment. He was extremely belligerent and accused us of trying to start a loud party (wtf?). I remained polite until the cop cooled down and let us go. If I had started screaming at him and made insults about his mother (like Gates did) I most certainly would have been arrested.

It's not a white or black thing. It's a power thing. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is.

[Hutzpa]

37. Every people of color

male or female has a personal story to tell when it comes to the police force in America,
it has become the norm hence the denial of some here on DU, some condone these attitudes
because its part of their DNA which is the subordination of another culture. This is
something that came from the 60's during the height of the segregation and some have seen
this as a way to keep minorities in their place.

We see it now with the attitude of the birthers (I hate to mention them by the way) with
those who are in cahoots with them, they are using that to discredit the President in a
psychological manner, so because the President is black that means he was not born in
America.

[Liberal_in_LA]

39. k&r

[EndersDame]

41. "It Aint because I am Black it is because I am Broke"

I went to an "at risk" highschool and we had a kind of "group" where a counselor would come and guide conversation about current events and how they fit into our lives. We were talking about a recent graduate who was unarmed and got shot in the back by the police and racial profiling. "E" weighed in that if he got caught with some weed at an East Austin Park(the poor side) he would go to jail whereas if he got caught with some weed in Westlake (the rich area where the doctors,lawyers and professionals live)he would not be messed with. Our counselor asked if was because he was black and he quickly with out missing a beat "It aint because I am Black but because I am Broke" I just was dumbfounded with the clarity and insight that E had .If you knew you would be surprised too all he talked about getting pussy and drugs (not because he is black but because he was a horny teenager)

I think that class has alot to do with how cops perceive you as well. I

[NOLALady]

65. You mean like

Mr Gates class? He's broke? Who knew?

[bigbrother05]

111. Townie cop, Harvard prof. Class harassment can go either way

[Cybergata]

42. I'm sorry you were treated like this.

This use to happen to me all the time about 30 years ago whenever I was in a vehicle with lots of other hippies. No one should have to go through this abuse.

[madmom]

43. Here is another example of over zealous police...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6148483&mesg_id=6148483

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KG]

49. Gates needed a lesson in humilty? fuck you.

[Advocatus_Diaboli]

51. I don't think you really mean that

"People outside supposedly heard Gates raving at the cop. Perhaps he could have just left; I suspect he was trying to teach Gates a lesson in humility. Sounds like he needed one big time!"

So the police should also be imposing their version of humility? Is that really what you're saying?

[Advocatus_Diaboli]

48. Relevancy fail

You had a bad experience with the police. Apart from that, I see nothing relevant.

[MrScorpio]

66. Are you intentionally being disruptive or merely obtuse?

From your statement, let's go with obtuse

[tabatha]

69. Boy, are you shortsighted.

[20score]

108. It could not be more on topic. You on the other hand....

[knixphan]

50. I had several similar experiences...

During a period when I relocated from above-to-below the Mason-Dixon line.

[varelse]

53. Really frustrating to see this happening on a forum dedicated to progressive ideals

instead of recognizing that everyone's basic civil and Constitutional rights should be protected, some (even some on DU) are willing to immediately throw themselves behind the blue wall of silence and discard rights of others if they aren't personally affected

Civil and constitutional rights survive *only* if they are universally supported, for everyone. Minus the universal recognition and support, we do not have rights, only privileges which can be arbitrarily granted, or taken away.

[MrScorpio]

61. I agree wholeheartedly nt

[Cha]

55. Well, you know..another good thing that's

come out of this is we are disussing it now.

And, I'm so proud of Pres Obama for speaking from his heart when asked about it at the Presser.


<snip>>>

.."But his tone quickly turned serious.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact," Obama said.

Obama went on to note the incident doesn't lessen "the incredible progress that has been made" in race relations and cited his presidency as an example. But he added a long history of African-Americans and Hispanics being stopped in disproportionate numbers by police "still haunts us."

"Even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause," Obama said. "And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be."..

<much more>>>
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/9055

I'm really apalled at the people on this board who don't get it for one reason or another.

[Starry Messenger]

57. recommend.

[CatWoman]

62. wonderful post

K&R

[hfojvt]

67. kicked for later reading

although I don't like the 'allegedly progressive' comment at the start. Maybe it will improve.

[tabatha]

68. Thanks for your story, and those of others.

Sometimes, many people don't understand.
Someone should write a book.

[WeDidIt]

73. For future reference, NEVER give up your fourth amendment rights

When asked by a cop if he can search your car, ALWAYS answer, "I do not consent to unwarranted searches."

ALWAYS do that, regardless of the fact that you know they'll find nothing. In fact, you should refuse consent ESPECIALLY if you know they will find nothing.

Warrants require probable cause. IF the cop goes to the trouble to attempt to get a warrant, and one is granted, you own that cop, the issuing judge, and the entire jurisdiction you are in. You will win in a civil court every time. most likely, the jurisdiction will settle out of court. If the cop searches without a warrant, your settlement will be even larger.

[quakerboy]

75. Cause they NEVER

plant things when they turn up empty.

If you get someone boxed in a corner, do not be surprised if they do something drastic.

[barbtries]

109. agreed

i know someone who was arrested with planted drugs.

[joshcryer]

110. "I consent to a search only if you allow it to be videotaped."

Wonder if that would work.

[jmm]

78. I've refused to consent to searches before.

Each time they gave up or couldn't get a warrant. Having said that, as much as I hate seeing people give up their rights there are risks involved with not consenting.

[PSzymeczek]

80. A lot of it in Louisiana is out-of-state-plates.

I saw something on 60 Minutes several years ago. Minority status just compounds the problem.

[bobbolink]

82. Your story had me holding my breath in fear..... that "search" could have planted "goods"

or worse.

I know this happens over and over and over..... but I feel ashamed of this country every time I hear about it.

NOW it's homeless people who are getting this treatment, and we have no support behind us at all.

Just as scary and just as damaging.

[DissedByBush]

85. I had a friend who was stopped all the time

This was in the 80s. He was black and driving a very nice new BMW 635 CSi and he was constantly stopped in Florida where he lived for absolutely no reason. Well we know the reason. Driving while black in a nice car.

Showing his Army ID stating he was a Chief Warrant Officer made such stops end quickly but it still shouldn't have happened. Anyone without that ID would have a much harder time.

[Aussie_expat]

88. The same thing has happened to me

The same thing has happened to me 2x on I 10 going thru hick towns in Texas.
Once for going 72mph in a 70 zone and once for not turning off my high beams from the opposite side on the interstate.
I agreed to let the officer search my car on both occasions. The first time he did and the second time he opened the hatch and decided not to bother since my car was full of clothing etc because I was moving.
I was respectful and got no tickets.
I am white and was wearing a suit and tie the first time.

[ColbertWatcher]

91. k+r.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[MrBig]

92. I'm so sorry

This is a terrible terrible story. One that needs to be told and acknowledged.

Racial (and other) profiling is a huge problem that people seem to think is just going away.

It is important that we, as a society, work with police departments and other areas where this problem is known to solve it.

We have to create the change. You need to tell your story to all of those who refuse to accept this as a problem. I cannot imagine what that must have been like for you.

[RedCloud]

94. We support the Panthers pulled over back in the day all the time

The high school team was the panthers. It came out black on the bumper stickers. Stupid cops thought that it was black panthers. And isn't that freedom of speech being repressed anyway? So they pulled over lots of kids when they drove out of district. That just made more join the good fight!

[mimitabby]

96. in the paper today

there were 2 men sentenced for murder. One was a 50 something white man who got 15 years and the other was a young black man that got 50.

I couldn't help but wonder....

[midnight]

100. I'm holding my breath reading your experience. I was thinking

you were going say and then he decides to arrest me. Of course officer I do not consent to the search though. Techinically they teach you to say. Racism and Sexism are both attributes of a society that does not extend civil rights except if forced to. We do need to make sure that Prof. Gates gets an appology and that officer Crowely understands why.

[JDPriestly]

102. Years ago, I had a black female boss who drove a showy Cadillac.

She was close friends with a high-ranking police officer who also served on our board. Nevertheless, when we compared notes about traffic stops for minor violations, the officers always let me go with a warning (I wasn't stopped often), but she always got a ticket even if she made a mistake and made it for the first time. I got stopped more when I drove an Oldsmobile that was a favorite of certain gang members, less when I drove an older model Honda.

And when I have had with the police in my own neighborhood beyond minor things like moving a car that is blocking my driveway, they have been rude and condescending. That is because I live in a working class neighborhood on the east side of L.A. It's not just about race. It's also about class. The police think they can get by with being rude to people of color or people without money.

[FrenchieCat]

103. Kicked and Rec'd!

A racist (I figured that what she was with her question to me) once asked me how come Black people drive Cadillacs or BMWs and yet live in a dump of an apartment?

I said....Beg your pardon, but I'm not sure I know those Black folks you speak of....but if I had to guess, I figure that they might have thought that if they get stopped while driving Black, they hope to have a better chance of not going to jail or getting their ass kicked if it is believed that they are affluent.

Guess that GateGate makes that theory about that stereotype get blown out of the waters!

[warren pease]

104. Riding while white, long-haired and raggedy-assed in the early '70s...

I'm riding in the passenger seat of a friend's car, fast asleep, middle of the night, dead to the world. Next thing I knew, I was picked up by the armpits and deposited in the gravel on the side of the highway. Then the screaming and flashlights go off, just before the kicking begins. Since all three of us were sober, had no open containers or drugs, the cops felt it necessary to supply us with something.

So we went to jail for possession on planted evidence -- four one-ounce baggies of that incredibly noxious and useless pot that used to sell for $10 or $15 back then. Amazingly, only one of them showed up on the police report. We were fortunate we weren't charged with possession with intent... We all got 30 hours community service, which none of us ever did, and life moved on.

Fast forward about 25 years and I'm doing 110 in a 55 -- no shit -- and of course I get stopped by a Santa Clara County sheriff. I'm wearing a nice Italian suit and tasteful silk tie, driving a year-old Accord, hair trimmed to respectability and I he asks me if I know why he pulled me over. I tell him I simply can't imagine why he pulled me over, at which point we both bust out laughing. And after we yuk it up for a couple more minutes, he lets me go with a warning.

Like a recidivist, career speeder is going to give a shit about a warning from a sheriff. We both know it's an exercise in futility.

We both take off, spinning our tires in the same damn gravel I got a face-full of on the Hwy 237 roadside, but that time on the way to Santa Clara County jail 25 years prior.

So gee whiz... do you suppose profiling actually exists?

Can you imagine how dead I'd be if I were a black man?

Or if allowed to live, how many counts of possession with intent to distribute I'd have had lodged against me?

Or how I probably couldn't afford a decent lawyer and would have got some deal-cutting PD instead?

And how I might still be in jail to this day on a classic chicken-shit beef like that?


sf

[20score]

105. K&R. I'm white and was beaten by the cops when I was younger for having long hair.

And they didn't want to work on New Years Eve. I despise it when people assume that all cops are squeaky clean and whatever they do is always justified.
It's reactionary answers from small minded people.

[FourScore]

106. Well said!

Thank you for posting this!

[barbtries]

107. thank you

you're so right.

[Lateedee]

112. Thanks for this...

As a white female 50 yrs old I grew up in small town WV during the years when race relations was at it's worst and at its best. The worst was folks could be so hate-filled about the color of a persons skin that they would hurt a child, a mother, someones grandparents simply because they were people of color. At it's best because there were many folks of all races and religions that fought for the equal rights of their american brothers and sisters. Has it gotten any better, yes! Do we have a ways to go, most certainly! The only way we make effective change is to talk about it with truth and to listen before you get angry. We need an open dialog. We need to be receptive to learning about the other persons struggle without prejudice. Now me personally, what do I think of what happened to Prof Gates? Well I think the cop was doing his job, he could have given the Prof a pass as soon as he realized he was in fact the home owner. However Prof Gates could also have calmed down, been grateful that his neighbors were watching his home so closely and handed over the dang documentation before the whole thing escalated out of control. Prof Gates shouldn't think he's above the law simply because he teaches it. Cooler heads should have prevailed, just as you kept your cool when being illegally searched and harassed by this small town cop. I'm pretty sure you would have ended up in jail if you had started screaming about "racial profiling" ect... I do wonder how quick the neighbors would have been to call the cops if the men "breaking in" had been white and how quick the cops would have been to arrest the same white man after he produced his ID and ownership of the house was established. Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm....

[Karenina]

114. There is NO "equivalency" issue here.

An armed, trained, supposedly professional lost his cool in the face of an exhausted, elderly, disabled, sick and frightened man IN THE MAN'S OWN HOME. There's an imbalance of power here, dontcha think? ;-)

[imdjh]

116. deleted off topic

..

[Lateedee]

118. I don't think...

that anyone that knows Prof Gates would describe him as disable, sick, frightened or elderly... exhausted yes since he had just gotten back from a trip. He sure looked like a man that was ready to "throw down." Of the men involved in this altercation, one man is armed with a gun, and the law on his side, the other is armed with a wealth of years of professional education and knowledge of the law.... again cooler heads should have prevailed. I do wonder at Prof Gates teaching style. Does he teach his students to disregard the law in their personal lives while teaching them the law for their professional lives? So no I don't think there was an imbalance of power.

[Karenina]

119. Tschüß!

:hi:

[imdjh]

115. Clean story. A case of actual profiling. Glad you posted because the definition is getting blurred

I first heard the term "profiling" , I suppose it was back the 1980's and it was a specific set of circumstances at that time. They were referring to the Maryland and Delaware state police pulling over and searching people on I95. The profile was: young black male driving a rental car with Florida license plates. On the surface this seemed somewhat logical, and many or most people stopped thinking at about that point.