How come Congress needs to "take it slow" passing health care reform

[undeterred]

but a $700 billion dollar bank bailout happened in a few weeks?

[Ms. Toad]

1. If you want to know the truth - that bank bailout should

really have been taken slowly, as well.

[timeforpeace]

2. No shit.

[Zavulon]

8. Exactly.

I've said it before, dozens of times, and I'll say it again: RUSHED BILLS ARE BAD BILLS.

[bobbolink]

24. So, you don't understand the REAL reason for putting on the breaks?

You don't know this bill has been in the works since FEBRUARY??????

You don't know that ALL the congresscritters had more warning than that, because it was one of Obama's main planks of his platform????

How many more people do you want to die while waiting until you think it's been long enough?

[Ms. Toad]

25. It is one thing to be endorsing a concept.

It is another to get 100 people to agree specific bill that is 700+ pages in the Senate and 435 people to agree on a different 1000+ pages in the House, then to make the two match less than a month after the introduction of the latter.

I don't want anyone else to die - but you do realize that even if the House bill (which is far more fleshed out) was passed tomorrow there is no substantive reform before 2013 for the general population? And then only for a handful of individuals.

Those parents Obama mentioned who have a child with leukemia - the House bill isn't going to help them until 2013 - at which time their daughter will be dead without medical care, or they will already be bankrupt if they choose to pay for her care. The Senate bill - not enough details to know whether it would help her or not. The general structure is decent, but there were a lot of gaps that need to be filled with specifics.

It isn't a matter of wanting people to die while waiting - it is a matter of wanting to make sure that whatever is passed meets minimum standards, and the bills pending don't meet my minimum standards.

[bobbolink]

26. I'm not even going past your first sentence... that's how ALL law is written in this country.

I'm supposed to be frightened about how the process has worked all these years?????????

Dearie, you need a civics class... FAST!

[Ms. Toad]

28. I'm pretty sure I've had quite a few more than you -

as well 10 years of experience as a board member of a group whose goal is influence anti-war and social, racial, and economic justice legislation at the federal level.

[bobbolink]

30. If that's so, then you should know better.

Shame on those scare tactics.... FAIL.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Have you even bothered to read the bills

you are insisting should be passed immediately?

I can't imagine anyone serious about the need for immediate health care reform in order to prevent more deaths finding the delay in implementation until 2013 acceptable.

[bobbolink]

34. I took issue with your FEAR because the House bill is separate from the Senate Bill.

Which you should know is the PROCEDURE.

You take back that mess, and we'll take it further.

[Ms. Toad]

36. I'll take that as a "No."

and you have quite an imagination to read fear, or lack of knowledge about legislative procedure, into what I wrote.

[bobbolink]

37. I take that as your ignorance or purposefully "misreading" PROCEDURE

[Ms. Toad]

47. I accurately stated the procedure

If your concern is immediately coming to the aid of people who are dying for lack of care, the bills currently proposed aren't the route without considerable work to correct the flaws, which you would know if you had read them.

It feels a little like I'm back in Junior High School, with the school is bully screaming, "You take back that mess" at the person who is stating the truth the bully doesn't want to hear. I think I'm a bit past that - feel free to continue without me.

[MarjorieG]

27. Can we do a few immediate regulatory reforms tomorrow, pre-existing, etc.

[Ms. Toad]

31. That is what I would like to see.

Impose immediate requirements that:

Insurance plans must accept all applicants.
Insurance premiums can vary only to take into account geographic area, coverage (different co-pays could have different premiums, for example), and modest variation for age (no more than 2:1 from top to bottom)
Insurance plans must cover all pre-existing conditions
Insurance plans cannot impose lifetime caps

That would at least provide access to all, and parity in cost. It is not perfect - adults without the means to pay an average premium would still be without meaningful access to care. It is better, though, from making everyone wait until 2013 just to be able to purchase insurance at a cost that is within reach of the middle class.

(Even better - I would like single payer - just expand traditional Medicare to all, or as a second best I would like the entire plan to start immediately. Just expand the entire Medicare model - a public option (traditional medicare) and private insurance (Medicare Advantage) to all, with individuals rather than the government paying the "premium," with heavy subsidies for those in the lower income brackets

[dflprincess]

32. The CBO says that HR3200 will only result in 10 million being added to the public plan by 2019

Obama said the other day that it will take "years" for the plan to ramp up.

How many are going to die waiting for this faux "reform" to kick in?

More people will be saved if we get a bill that actually creates a system that works.

[Zavulon]

38. Oh, please.

I get enough fearmongering no matter who's in charge. Your "how many more people do you want to die" is bested only by "it's for the children" when putting forth all the reasons why a rushed bill should be rubber-stamped ASAP. The bill in its current form wasn't in that same form in February; you may as well claim that it's been in the works for the last sixty years since that's how long we've been discussing health care.

[bobbolink]

39. Oh, of course,,,, people dying for Lack Of Health Care is only a myth.

For the love of the goddess, grow a damned heart!

[Zavulon]

40. Sure, because that's EXACTLY what I said.

:eyes:

And if we rush a bad, hurried bill through ASAP, nobody will ever die again! :rofl:

I see you're one of those who accuses those who don't agree 100% with you of being lacking in compassion. I never said we shouldn't do anything, I'm just saying that I don't want a crappy bill rushed through just so that people can claim credit. I've read the bill, there's a lot of it I don't like, and I have a big problem with this "It's this year or never!" that I keep hearing from Obama. Does that mean that if it isn't done this year, he's just going to give up and therefore needs to "grow a damned heart" as well?

Now "for the love of goddess," whatever the fuck you mean by that, go ahead and misconstrue this post just like you did my last one. :eyes:

P.S. You can put the "breaks" (your spelling, not mine) on capitalizing lack of health care" unless you've just discovered that the term is copyrighted :rofl:

[bobbolink]

41. Oh, shit.... you mocked the idea of people dying.

And all your laughter shows where you are.

As I said, GROW A HEART.

And, if you're hearing that from other sources, maybe it would behoove you to LISTEN.

[Zavulon]

42. Here's an idea:

GROW A BRAIN. I didn't mock the idea of people dying at all, I mocked your pathetic and transparent fearmongering and I still do. In other words, I wasn't laughing at and mocking the idea of people dying, I was laughing at and mocking YOU. It seems quite justified now, as you couldn't even pick up on that fact.

Regarding your completely absurd "And, if you're hearing that from other sources, maybe it would behoove you to LISTEN," does "other sources" automatically mean that something has credibility? If so, we must hate America, because I've heard from multiple sources that Democrats hate America. Is that true? I've also heard from multiple sources that if we want to see defense spending cut, we hate America. I've also heard from other sources that if we want fair treatment for Gitmo prisoners, we hate America. That must be true too, right? After all, these claims come from OTHER SOURCES, so "maybe it would behoove you to LISTEN," you America-hater? :rofl:

(If the above seems like a ridiculous stretch of logic to you, now you know how I feel when I read the drivel you write.)

My desire to wait a little longer for a good bill rather than see a bad one rushed through doesn't mean I don't have a heart; your repeated insistence that I have to grow one just because I don't agree 100% with YOU, along with your complete inability to understand what I'm saying, indicates to me that you need to get hooked on Phonics (maybe it would behoove you! :rofl: ), or, as I said before, to grow a brain (I've seen little evidence that the one you're using right now actually works). I've seen Republicans with completely indefensible points debate their sides better than you do.

Respond if you want, but I won't be reading it. Up until now you amused me, now you just bore me. Go grow some reading comprehension. Maybe it would behoove you. :rofl:

[undeterred]

45. Zavulon

I hope you took a break and walked away from the computer for a few hours. No sense spewing hate here at Democratic Underground.

[Zavulon]

50. I saw nothing hateful in what I wrote.

There was certainly mockery, but I didn't think it was unwarranted. Repeated calls to "grow a heart" from a dullard who misreads my words and accuses me of not having one without any fair basis shouldn't require me to give thanks and send gifts.

Since you've decided, however, that my words are somehow hateful and that there was no sense in them - but said nothing to the would-be cardiac specialist - I assume you've taken sides. Whether you have or not, be advised that I'll post whatever I deem appropriate. The next time you decide to judge me, just alert the admins and spare me your counseling. If the admins agree with you, they'll act. If not, your words are as lacking in sense as you accuse mine of being. Fair enough?

[inna]

43. the devil is in details.

sorry, but the (sad joke of the) "public option" wouldn't kick in until 2013 even if it were approved already.

and then, even by 2019, it will cover only 9 to 11 (at the most) million people.


this "reform" is a total charade. it's a massive, unprecedented, OBSCENE giveaway to the insurance industry and for-profit "health" corps. they win (and laugh at us), we lose.

see this for Cliff's points:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8553784&mesg_id=8554047

[emilyg]

14. Agree.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Because if they take it fast, it might pass.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

Because,

if the Congress had taken it slow with the Patriot Act, we would all be speaking Farsi today.

Wait.

What?

[timeforpeace]

17. It was fast, but not like this fast. And since it doesn't go into effect for, how long?...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. Not like this fast?

Check your dates. The Patriot Act took under six weeks, and compared to the health care bill, it's a monolith.

If George W. Bush had proposed this health care program, don't you think it would have gone through?

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. and the charges of Contempt of Congress never happen.

That is when I knew we lost it, btw. When Rove and Meirs walked after ignoring the subpeona.

[Truth Talks]

5. Remember the Pledge of Allegiane?

Some guy in California filed a lawsuit over the Pledge of Allegiance, and Congress went ballistic. I was utterly disgusted by a photo of several (many?) Congressmen standing on the steps of some edifice reciting the Pledge with their hands over their hearts. Those fat, stinking *ssholes couldn't protect us from the 9/11 terrorist attacks, George W. Bush, Enron or Microsoft, but they demonstrated their patriotism by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in a sleazy photo op.

I wish I could track down that photo; it's a classic example of Congress' priorities.

[DefenseLawyer]

6. The lobbyists need time

to read the markups and pervert them to their own ends. Then low and behold something still called the "public option" applies to about 200 people and it will be administered by BCBS for a 20% cut.

[timeforpeace]

19. Whose bill do you think this is? Congress didn't write this. It was written by the health care

industry ie lobbyists.

[DefenseLawyer]

22. Well there are multiple bills in committee at this point

Some of them actually contain some halfway decent things. For now.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Agreed that Health Care has been debated for what, 60 years now.....

You'd think they'd have pretty good ideas by now.

[undeterred]

12. Banking is one thousand times more urgent than health care for all.

[FrenchieCat]

13. The Bank Bailout happened,

but I don't think it had been discussed in the last 60 years.

So I was just answering your op question....about why are we rushing Health Care...
I don't think that this is the case....


and I do think that our financial system couldn't have lasted through a slow debate...
and I don't think anyone has really proven otherwise.

[undeterred]

15. I agree with you.

There was zero accountability built into the bank bailout. Of course we trust the banks, right? :sarcasm:

But when it comes to health care, suddenly everyone is tight fisted about money and wants accountability for every nickel.

Zero accountability required for Defense spending and the Financial industry but all kinds of bureaucracy and stalling over Health Care.

[sea four]

9. The longer it takes to pass it

The longer the insurance industry and their PR flacks have to turn public opinion against it. I believe that's why the Repubs and the Blue Dogs are stalling.

[malletgirl02]

16. Stimulus Bill Redux

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. It's not going to pass -

the health industry owns the Congress. Always have, always will.

Harry Truman, for god's sake, made speeches about Americans needing better health care.

Makes what LBJ did even more impressive, doesn't it?

[malletgirl02]

23. LBJ

The passage of Medicare was a massive achievement. If it wasn't for Vietnam he would have ranked among the greatest presidents.

[inna]

44. what's even more impressive, he forced it through despite...

the rabid opposition. i wish Obama would follow in his (and FDR's) steps, but... :shrug: not likely.

[Zavulon]

10. Because one stupidly rushed, very bad bill shouldn't be cause for another? (NT)

[ananda]

11. to make sure insurance companies, suppliers, big pharma..

.. and other providers get what they want.

[LostInAnomie]

18. They want to see what kind of deal the insurance companies are going to cut them.

They are going to talk to all the big insurance corps, pharma corps, etc. and see what kind of money they are willing to throw in to their campaign funds.

[mmonk]

29. One they were trying to make happen, the other they are trying to kill.

[jwirr]

35. They rushed the Iraq war vote also. As long as they get the job done

that is what I care about.

[defendandprotect]

46. ..Because capitalism's right to welfare is more important than citizens right to health care?

[moondust]

48. Need more time to stack the cards.

Card stackin' is hard werk.

[bobbolink]

49. that's it exactly. Give 'em time to spend a lot of $$$$ fooling more people.

That's all it's about.

We're being played. :cry:

[salguine]

51. Because the bank bailout was for the super-rich, and health care reform

is for the poor, that's why.