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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:05 PM
Original message
Ending the "war on drugs" to fight terrorism makes sense
I think a lot of posters on this forum would agree that the "war on drugs" is an utter disaster and needs to be brought to an end quickly. We tried such a measure during Prohibition, and it flat out did not work. But there is another reason why the "war on drugs" needs to be brought to an end as quickly as possible...in order to fight resurgent Islamist groups such as the Taliban, al-Qaeda and Islamic Jihad, not to mention domestic terror organizations such as the radical right-wing militias, the Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan.

I know this may ruffle some feathers on a board like this, but I believe that the United States government seriously cares more about what consenting adults put into their own bodies than what terrorist organizations, both in Iraq/Afghanistan and within our own borders are up to. They care more about an adult getting their hands on a bag of marijuana or a 20-year old getting a six pack of beer (I would consider the hysterical "underage drinking" nonsense as a part of the war on drugs, IMHO) than foriegn radical jihadists or domestic racist nutcases getting their hands on chemical, biological or (gulp) nuclear weapons. If a consenting adult wants to smoke weed, who gives a crap...the government should let them do it. As long as they don't get behind the wheel of a car afterwards, what's the big deal? Doesn't it make more sense to put forth more effort to keep terrorist nukes or germ weapons out of this country than a freaking plant?

Prior the September 11 attacks, most airport security personnel were better trained to detect drugs than terrorist weapons, which in part enabled al-Qaeda to breach our airport security to devastating effect. And I am still a firm believer that our airport security (among other places) is still in need of improvements. It's much better than it was on that fateful Tuesday morning, but it still needs to be improved. For example, are you aware that the bouncer at your local nightclub is probably better trained to spot a fake ID than a TSA agent manning an airport security checkpoint? The reason is, the technologically advanced scanners to detect fake IDs are more often used to keep a 20-year old from having a few drinks (said scanners are often government funded) than to keep operatives of terrorist organizations off airliners. And lest we forget, foriegn governments hostile to the United States (such as North Korea) could probably produce some very high quality fakes and sell them to terrorists; after all, the North Koreans did produce the "Supernote" counterfeit $100 bills, which the Secret Service would probably tell you are the most realistic looking counterfeit dollars ever produced. Regardless of your stance on the drinking age, it's absolutely absurd to give priority to stopping somebody below an arbitrary age limit from drinking a certain beverage instead of making sure that terrorists don't get aboard civilian airliners, especially after September 11, 2001.

Another major reason is that a lot of terrorist groups, both foriegn and domestic ones, use drug money to further their efforts to spread chaos and terror. The Taliban and al-Qaeda are heavily funded by the cultivation of opium and the trafficing of other drugs, and Islamic radicals in Afghanistan have raised profits that way since they were fighting the Soviets thirty years ago. Domestic terror organizations, such as the Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan, also raise profits through these means. If drugs were to be legalized and/or decriminalized, these terrorist organizations would lose a significant source of funding and could be weakened.

I think it's completely ridiculous that so much limited manpower and materiel is used to fight drugs when it should be used to fight terrorism instead. Thousands upon thousands of agents in the DEA could be put to so much better use...instead of hunting down drugs, they should be shoring up security at vulnerable places and actively seeking out both foriegn and domestic terrorist cells operating here and abroad. A lot of border security efforts are used to keep drugs out of this country, when it would make more sense to see if terrorists and/or their weapons are being moved into the country.

I think that marijuana should be fully legalized, taxed and regulated. Most other drugs should be decriminalized; i.e. still technically illegal, but nobody really cares any longer and everybody just looks the other way. Netherlands has legalized marijuana, and Portugal went for all out decriminalization for all drugs; and neither of those countries descended into abject chaos, no matter what the Nixonites and Reaganites would have told you prior it happening. The drinking age should be lowered down to 18, with an exception stipulating that it's legal for those under 18 to drink with their parents or legal guardians; the idea being to teach responsible drinking, not the binge drinking culture the 21-drinking age and its worshippers have created. One objection that many would have with this is the issue of DWI; I firmly think that the penalties for driving while intoxicated should be seriously ramped up. Some would object to a lower drinking age for that reason alone; but lest we forget, DWI is just as illegal for those over the age limit as it is for those under it. The same would go for other drugs. If somebody does drugs, they're not harming anybody else, UNTIL they get behind the wheel of car; and penalties for DWI should be much more strict, like they already are in Europe which generally has much more liberal alcohol and drug laws.

In times like this, with right-wing domestic terrorists commiting acts of violence like the shooting at the Holocaust Memorial Museum only about a month ago, and the OKC federal building bombing in the relatively recent past, plus the foriegn jihadists still out there that have committed acts of violence against Americans both at home and abroad in the past two decades, it simply makes more sense for the government to care more about protecting its citizens from terrorism than it does from what said consenting adults put into their own bodies.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, sort of.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 01:21 PM by PDJane
Which is, I agree that the war on drugs should be ended. However, I also believe that the 'War on Terrorism' should be ended as well, and the two are tied together.

Both are totally bogus 'wars' meant to enrich whomever is running the state apparatus....which happens to be the corporate elite, at the moment...and their cronies.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. The war on terror is just the war on drugs on meth..
There really isn't that much difference between the two.

Both are fueled by deliberate ignorance and government promoted hysteria.

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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. One war names an inanimate object as the foe.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 01:39 PM by Flaneur
The other names an abstraction.

Both are wrong-headed.
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lefthandedlefty Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. End the war on drugs and drug dealers will go broke
This is big business and will put a lot of people out of work.:nopity: Quit trying to stop drugs will cause the bottom to fall out of prices and would also take money from terrorist`s.There would such a glut of drugs that the price would fall like a rock.The people that use drugs will most likely use them anyway,but maybe since they will not be getting away with anything less people will start using.Afterall the surest way to get someone to do something is to try and stop them from doing it.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Since the CIA is dealing a great deal of it........
The going broke thing would take down a portion of wall street, unless I miss my guess.
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lefthandedlefty Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That`s OK with me
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. We are bombing the shit out of them in Afghanistan and Pakistan. What more do you want?
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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. We bombed the shit out of a pile of poppy seeds last week.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/595/US_war_planes_bomb_opium_poppy_seeds

Afghanistan: US War Planes Bomb the Hell Out of a Bunch of Poppy Seeds

Article from Drug War Chronicle, Issue #595, 7/24/09

US war planes dropped bombs on a 300-ton pile of opium poppy seeds in southern Helmand province Tuesday afternoon. The US military dropped 1,000 pounds on the pile of seeds, then followed up with strikes from helicopters to make sure they were really dead.

The publicity stunt was designed to win hearts and minds of Afghan poppy farmers, a State Department official told CNN. "There is a nexus that needs to be broken between the insurgents and the drug traffickers," State's Tony Wayne said. "Also, it is part of winning the hearts and minds of the population because in some cases they are intimidated into growing poppies."

The US has recently shifted its approach to poppy cultivation in Afghanistan, which supplies more than 90% of the world's opium and its derivative, heroin. The US is ending support for eradication programs and instead targeting drug traffickers, especially those linked to the Taliban, which is estimated to earn hundreds of millions of dollars a year from the black market industry.

The US and its NATO allies are also trying to win over poppy farmers through alternative development programs. But those programs are difficult to put in place in areas outside the effective control of the Afghan government or Western military forces.

The attack on the seed pile comes as US and NATO forces are enduring their bloodiest month yet in the nearly eight-year-old invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. According to the war casualty monitor I Casualties, 63 Western troops have been killed so far this month, making it far and away the deadliest in the war. The previous monthly highs were 46 each in June and August 2008.

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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. We want an end to bombing the shit out of people on the other side...
...of the planet.

And we want an end to the drug war.

Just say no to wars against inanimate objects and abstractions.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. What's the Terror Threat Level color?
Anybody know?
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hmm...
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 02:56 PM by Iggo
If the War On Drugs wasn't actually The War On Drug-Users...

and the War On Terror wasn't actually the War On People Who Really Really Look Like All Those Mean And Scary Terrorists...

then yeah, I'd be with you on this.

EDIT: I guess I'm half with you. End the War On Drugs right fucking now.
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Is this the war for oil...
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 03:37 PM by wuvuj
...or the war against drugs? Or the war against people who stand up to the oligarchy? So many wars...so little time.....
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. I rememeber when the drinking age was 18
There was far less binge drinking among people in their late teens. Parents taught their kids how to drink in moderation and among some immigrant groups, especially Italians, kids drank wine alongside their parents with their meals.

My dad taught me how to drink responsibly, namely, knowing how much to drink and when to stop.
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EndersDame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think that legalizing Heroine would be like legalizing Nukes in neighborhoods
I am all for legalizing pot mushrooms acid peyote maybe a lighter touch for some prescription drugs but I think that legalizing heroine would just be devastating and our nation would just rot from the inside out. I used to smoke pot and would occasionally would have coke and pills(i was straight out of high school and have since learned not to be a dumbass )and hung out with some people who did heavy shit and shot up (thank god I was never that dumb) and if there was a higher percentage of those types I just think everything would go to hell (lack of productivity increase in crime to acquire drugs and money not to mention health issues)
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I support decrim, not outright legalization....
for ALL the harder drugs such as that.

There is a BIG difference between decriminalizing something and legalizing it. For example, prior Lawrence v. Texas went to SCOTUS in 2003, consentual sodomy between two adults had been effectively decriminalized. It was technically illegal in some of the states in the Deep South, but it was rarely (if ever) enforced and penalties were all but eliminated (the Lawrence case being a major exception).

Portugal decriminalized all drugs (not legalized) back in 2001. And in spite of what hardcore Drug Warriors would tell you, Lisbon has not descended into a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

I have no desire to smoke pot or use drugs. For example, tobacco is legal but I don't smoke and have no desire to do it. I figure that people who want to do drugs will do them anyways. Yet, there's no point in putting somebody in prison for twenty years over a freaking weed when rapists and pedophiles get five (if they get sent there at all). It just makes more sense for the government to start worrying about al-Qaeda, the Islamic Jihad, wingnut terrorists and the Aryan Nations/Ku Klux Klan and the acts of violence they're capable of than to worry about drugs that people will use anways.
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EndersDame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I think that Heroine dealers should have the book thrown at them
Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 04:59 PM by EndersDame
and addicts should get treatment.I think the dealers are complicit in the destruction of the individual
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