What do you teach your kids, if the police come to the door?

[cleveramerican]

I teach them to cooperate
Do what the police say.
Be polite.
my oldest is 14.
I'm interested to hear.

[The Straight Story]

1. I tell em we only trust cops with guns and not others

because cops are good and responsible but we are not :rofl:

[seabeyond]

2. i am always at home, so the kids would call me and i would deal with it.

have never thought to teach children anything when a cop knocked at door. i see no reason for a cop to knock on door unless i call them. for a cop to randomly knock on door when i am not home? i would imagine kids would be polite as they are to all people and helpful if they could be. i would expect nothing less and even now i dont see a need to have a conversation on it. they know how to act with fellow man.

[imdjh]

8. Do you have a screen door or storm door? Are they going out of style?

This thread made me think about the fact that I no longer have a screen door. It got ratty and looked bad, so I took it off and cleaned up the frame. it seems like screen doors are going out of style, even here in the South. Newer homes never had them, and many older homes are now without them.

It's a useful interface between you and the outside world. You can open your door without giving access. I'm not thinking about this just in terms of police, but whenever someone comes to your door, it's nice to have that screen door in place to keep the line drawn until you actually invite someone into your home.

[seabeyond]

11. i have windows around door, and windows in other places to easily identify who is there

kids do not open door for anyone they dont recognize. they would have to see a car adn uniform. if it is a plain clothes cop they are not gonna open door and will get me.

it doesnt have to do with cop or not in this house.

but no... no screen doors.

i have no qualms opening door to cops though. cop friendly house. nothing we do or have can lead to anything. lifestyle, who we know ... nuthin

[hlthe2b]

43. Mistaken location-- no knock warrants?

I think it is increasingly necessary to discuss with at least older children. (sadly)


After the incident with the MD mayor and his family (mistaken identity led to a no knock warrant and swat team killing his two labs), I realize that one can not totally depend on normal procedures to rule the day. I do know that while I have respect for police officers generally, that had I been that mayor and his stricken traumatized wife and mother-in-law, I could never have reacted as "professionally" to the matter... Shooting 2 beautiful labs as they were running away... I pray I am never put in that position, as I very likely would have to be among those the police shoot(and kill) if they want to depart unscathed. Protecting my innocent and defenseless pets is every bit as instinctual to me as protecting children. That story will never leave me.

[seabeyond]

50. lol, now that i think of it. we are upscale neighborhood, but our neighbor, black sheep of very

wealthy family here in town. house they had had in family forever and living off trust fun, also been raided adn cops spent lots of time there. they could have easily mistaken... also have had the swat in our yard during one of the raids.

like i said in other posts, i have had cops around for lots of different reason, lots of different circumstances and see the way they behave. i dont trust.

[rd_kent]

3. Be polite, but do not let them in.

Come get one of us or call us immediately. The police have no business in my home without my permission unless they have a warrant, which they would not need my permission.

[Fumesucker]

19. As the Gates brouhaha shows clearly..

There are indeed times when cops can come into your home without a warrant, such as when a passer-by calls in a report of a possible burglary.

[rd_kent]

23. They will do what they want

It would be stupid to try and physically prevent it. If they really want to come in, and have "probable cause", then I will deal with it after.

[Fumesucker]

24. I never said it wasn't..

Just that there are circumstances when cops can legally enter against your will without a warrant.

[Statistical]

35. Exactly the goal is not to physically prevent them from entering your home but ...

instead to inform them they are not invited. With an illegal search there is the oppertunity of evidence being suppressed. If you invite the cops in even if you later feel that you were "forced" you have given up some of your rights.

[rd_kent]

40. Exactly

I have applied this method even on the few times I have been pulled over in my car. When the officer approaches, I ask if I may get out of the car. If I'm told to stay in, I only open the window enough to hand over my ID. If I am allowed out, I close and lock the door behind me. What has worked every time, is I only answer questions regarding my identity, and for all other questions I answer, "am I being detained or am I free to leave."

[cleveramerican]

42. ringing somebody's door bell

is very different than pulling them over.

[rd_kent]

55. No, its not.

If a cop rings my doorbell, I will step outside, closing the door behind me. I will be polite and deal with the situation.

[seabeyond]

57. that is what i do when i have had them come to door for different things. ALWAYs.

but this op was talking about kids....

[imdjh]

4. When I was 14 the FBI came to the door.

He started asking me questions about a neighbor. I grabbed the (corded kitchen) phone, dialed my mom and said, "There's an FBI guy here asking questions. Here. " and handed him the phone through the door.

[Enrique]

5. Henry Louis Gates is not one of your kids

(I'm assuming).

[seabeyond]

7. if this is what the poster is positioning self on, then just messed up

and stupid

[madrchsod]

6. hide the pot....lol...

be polite and cooperate

[imdjh]

39. That is a big unspoken part of the discussion, which doesn't invalidate it.

Much of my staunch Fourth Amendment defense has to do with the fact that I used to smoke pot. I suspect that many people with animosity about the police have a concern about pot. We ridicule "If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear." because we associate it with a police state, but the truth is that if pot were legal, people in general would become a lot less concerned about the infringement of the Fourth Amendment. Of course, we would still oppose this infringement in principle, because if it's not pot it would be something else, weapons, or in a worst case scenario printed matter.

When I owned a boat, I would have to specifically order my guests to leave anything to do with pot in their cars or at home. They simply did not understand or accept that it is perfectly legal for us to get boarded and searched on a boat. I happen to disagree with the constitutional aspects of that, but it's the way it is. If they find even a small amount of pot they will take your boat apart with screw drivers and seize your boat leaving you with a mortgage and no boat.

[Flaneur]

9. If they don't have a warrant, don't open the door.

Ask them to state their business through the door or call you on the phone.

There may be times when you are expecting the cops; in that case, I guess you'd want to open the door. But if they show up on your doorstep unannounced and "just want to ask a few questions," they can do that through the door.

[datasuspect]

12. requesting a warrant can backfire

they'll often just kick the door in anyway.

[Flaneur]

18. If they kick your door in without a warrant, that is an illegal search.

Their case would be thrown out, and you'd have a decent shot at suing them.

[seabeyond]

22. just asked fourteen yr old. " mmmmm, probably, well actually that is a hard one

i dont really trust them but part of the law and would instinctively trust them, law get rid of bad guys. probably would not open cause if the cop wanted to, usually they are fit, armed and dangerous"

who would have thought... this is where my respectful, polite, law abiding son would go.

maybe cops have a public relations problem going on

[datasuspect]

25. they did it to me and my brother

and the prosecutor (at the police station on a sunday afternoon) basically fired off a list of bogus charges he'd have been willing to pursue if we didn't shut up.

i didn't get arrested, my brother did, but they beat the living shit out of him.

[cleveramerican]

13. How bout a gas leak?

believe the cop? I sure would.
It often falls to the cop to begin warning neighbors.

[seabeyond]

16. cause this just happens all the time.... rollin eyes. listen to posters, gas leaks

dressing up as cops, yada yada yada

[Flaneur]

20. In that case, the cop can yell "There's a gas leak!"

Through the door.

[seabeyond]

21. true enough, lol lol. ah common sense. n/t

[datasuspect]

26. they send fire to a gas leak.

cops are lazy fucks. they aren't worth the sweat off a firefighter's balls.

[seabeyond]

27. now the firefighters in our community. massive community respect adn support

but then, they work at being a part of our community. it pays off.

[datasuspect]

29. i've drank with cops and firemen

cops get all assholish and want to fight civilians.

firefighters invite you to their station house to eat.

[seabeyond]

33. exactly. you could not have stated it better. nt

[Posteritatis]

28. You're kidding, right?

Cops are routinely involved in things like that here, at least as far as telling people what's going on.

[datasuspect]

30. absolutely not

like my lawyer friend once told me (and i paraphrase):

"people watch CSI and think cops know what the hell they are doing. they don't. these are some of the most stupid jagoffs you can find. that's how these cases get thrown out. they lie and fuck evidence up so badly, that it gets tossed in pretrial."

so not only are they lazy, they're dumb too.

QED

[Posteritatis]

44. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not cops warn about gas leaks

Shift those goalposts!

[DevonRex]

10. Hopefully your kids won't be attacked by a person who stole a uniform.

[seabeyond]

14. a parent has just gotta play the odds. i feel pretty damn safe here. n/t

[givemebackmycountry]

15. It happens.... (kids not involved)

I had a friend who I worked with a long time ago.
He had taken a Friday off just to get a break, as we had been through a few tough weeks at work.

So, he's home and he's minding his own business, sitting in his living room, chilling and getting baked.
I mean, he's getting totally blazed and he's having fun and relaxing.

Meanwhile, there is a Dallas Police cruiser driving around in the parking lot of his town-home complex, running plates at random.

They do this you know.
I heard a KC cop say that once in a 7-11, as he was walking out the door to his cruiser.
"I'm going to go run some plates and see what we come up with" were his exact words.

Turns out that right in front of his unit was a car that was either stolen, or had stolen plates on it.
It was not his car.

So, the cops get out of their car and peek inside the suspect vehicle and then they start to knock on doors.
No one home, no one home, no one home, then they knock on the door of my boys unit.

He jumps up, opens the door, and there stands two uniformed officers.
Screw the car, now they had a real criminal to deal with.
"Sir is that marijuana we smell?"

Probable cause, weekend in jail, lost his job, thousands in lawyer fees, stress and shame.
All while minding his own business and smoking some of Gods wonderful flowers.

I never answer my door unless I am expecting someone.
I don't know you?
I'm not home.

[seabeyond]

17. and if i was smoking pot in my house, or had stolen goods laying around, or or or

there would then be need for instruction to my children. lol

[Ian David]

34. What if they're just harassing people who support the Democrat running for mayor?

Or people who signed a petition to legalize medical marijuana?

Or who signed a petition against ending marriage equality?

[seabeyond]

37. heres the thing and why my sons dont trust. we have seen too many of such abuses

and they are too educated on these things. they have watched video (more than a couple) where peaceful demonstrations were interrupted with abusive cops. they have read too many times where cops abused. they have experienced the intimidation first hand, knowing they had done nothing, no reason to intimidate them, and made no sense to their little minds

they are being taught to trust cops, as cops make them afraid....

these are the community issues cop defenders adn cops refuse to recogniZe, acknowledge so they are clueless why.

when we had the kerry signs and then the bumperstickers adn then the obama sticker and signs, not only were kids on toes and weary about the public, but also what might come from cops.

[Warpy]

31. "Can I do something for you, officer?"

through the wrought iron crime door, of course. If he wants to come in, I say it's not convenient. If he says he's got information about a crime being committed, I try to verify the address first. If he insists he has to enter, I ask for the warrant to be slid under the door.

They've never gotten beyond that last part. No warrant, no enter.

The only time a cop ever wanted to barge in was in the early 70s when they were doing a door to door search in Boston for Kathy Power and Susan Saxe. I asked for the warrant, he left and didn't come back.

[Statistical]

32. The job of the police is to gather evidence and arrest suspects.

If they are coming to your door then likely you are the susepct.

Be polite, be firm, don't let them in the house. If you want/need to speak to them, step outside on the porch and speak to them there.

Generally speaking to the police is a bad idea though. I don't dislike cops, they have a tough job and often deal with the worst elements of society. I am just realistic enough to understand their purpose and it has nothing to do with "protect and serve" but then again "arrest and gather evidence" is less catchy.

[datasuspect]

36. that's correct

it's never a good idea to even engage in idle conversation with them without counsel present.

[cleveramerican]

41. somebody's dog is barking, car ran into your fence,stolen bicycles

cops go to people doors all the time for all sorts of reasons, too many to list here.
I would listen to what he had to say before I asked for warrant.

[sandnsea]

47. You said your child

No, you need to teach your children to tell them to come back and talk to you. They'll know if the situation has moved into "murderer loose in the neighborhood" territory. Don't teach your kids to be naive about the police.

[cleveramerican]

49. I was onto me now

not naive but:
you really truly teach your kids not to give a Bit of Trust,None?
a bit of courtesy and respect for the tough job of the neighborhood cop?
Do you teach them the cop is probably there to arrest you?

Man oh man thats tragic?

[sandnsea]

51. Not to cops

They don't have to be rude to say "parents aren't home, sorry". And you don't have to be rude to very carefully measure your words and make double sure you know what's going on before you volunteer information. Especially if the situation involves you, personally. Be forewarned.

That's not to say that I don't believe in cooperating with cops on neighborhood crime, because I do. As an adult. Not my kids.

[seabeyond]

56. but the thing is....i was one of those parents that wanted my kids to have a respect

not to be afraid. and when i actively went out of way to teach this to son, using the cops, they were totally non receptive, so i switch to firemen and they were great

when my kids were 4 and 6 had back turned and had an policeperson at an airport purposely intimidate my kids. one near tears. think i wasnt pissed as a mom. had another cop stop me cause my tx inspection sticker was past due. i wasnt concerned. but cop approached to intimidate. and the whole process was his intimidating mode. i didnt give a shit. effected me not, but when the cop left, my oldest son told me how scared my youngest was. look back and he is shaken. pissed me off. there was NO reason for either things and they effect the kids

they are being told to trust, yet experience tells them fear and not a hell of a chance they will trust.

my kids are educated and informed. they know what has happened in different situations. peace rallies, ect... adn the abuses.

and damn straight i have told my kids to be weary as they get older. anything can set a cop off. that is being a parent. look at the behaviors.

there are reasons people feel as they do. and your trite dismissal does nothing to solve the problem

[sandnsea]

46. Don't step outside

I learned that. As long as you're in your house, or otherwise not in public, you can't be creating a disturbance.

[cleveramerican]

53. (teaching moment alert!!!)

excellent point!

[seabeyond]

58. just saying above, i step out and shut the door. lol lol. is it home if i am on huge porch

well away from street

[cleveramerican]

61. Are you black?

[seabeyond]

62. white. so that is the question.

you could be right. i can see the point and the difference. i totally understand why gate did what he did. that is why i was in quandry, i thought it smart what he did, but i dont want an unknown man in my house with door shut either. and standing at door, can be pushed in then.... i dont like that feeling and always i step out and shut door

cause

i am female, lol

[hfojvt]

48. they probably do more traffic work than that other stuff

speeding tickets, etc. Seems to be one of their main functions anyway.

[proteus_lives]

38. Be polite.

Ask to see their badges and then write down the numbers. Tell them that they are going to call the station-house to confirm these numbers and then call their parents. Then thank them for their patience.

[GoneOffShore]

59. The age of some of the cops in Philly makes you want to call their parents.

[seabeyond]

60. isnt it funny, when you get so old, the kids you see (really adults) look like kids.

preforming job you think adults should do. bah hahahah

[timeforpeace]

45. "Mom says we don't want any"

[Forkboy]

52. Not to try being a clever american.

[EndersDame]

54. I would say Talk to Them on the Porch Do Not Invite Them in

[omega minimo]

63. My friend's son as a 3 year old started singing "Bad Boys" when he saw police cars

[seabeyond]

64. bad boys bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you

ya, mine did too. i told them the bad boys are the criminals the cops are going for

[omega minimo]

65. Pretty catchy, huh?

[seabeyond]

66. the day i saw some little girl out in a corn field threatening to kill herself, she comes out, hand

up, and the cops grab this little thing weighing about 100 pounds adn throws her on ground so rough and harsh and yank arm back and cuff, knee in back, i thought what pigs... they were twice her size, she was no threat and they are all pattin self on back, like she was hog tied.

and she was threatening to kill self.

then on, told hubby, watch somewhere else. cant watch that. if they think that is such appropriate behavior to put on tv, i want no part of them

[omega minimo]

67. COPS on TV has done a lot of damage relevant to recent DU discussions.

[seabeyond]

68. it has. more times watching i will ask hubby, does that look ok to you. doesnt look ok to me

yet they proudly put it on tv for us to see this is who cops are.

those cops on cops are NOT anything to brag about.

[omega minimo]

69. I've never watched it. The whole racist/class war premise and violation of basic rights by being

filmed seemed a dangerous thing to pretend was acceptable by televising it.

[Buzz Clik]

70. If I taught them that stuff, it would be teaching them to behave differently than I.

I really dislike authority figures of all kinds. I've been hassled by the police about a dozen times in the past 30 years. Most of the police were respectful to me despite my clench-jawed, single syllable responses to them. I even gave the finger to a cop after his light-hearted "Have a nice day" after giving me a bullshit ticket for not having my seatbelt fastened. He partners (part of a traffic trap) actually laughed -- their laughing made me laugh, too.

So, I teach my kids to be smart, know their rights, and don't do anything to make things worse: no shouting, no swearing, no belligerence, and no submitting to anything outside the cop's rights as an enforcement officer. As a result, we've ushered 5 energetic kids through their teens with only one minor incident.