This Liberal Doesn't Take His Marching Orders From Xenophobic Old Farts

[Beacho]

This is a response to the Pat Condell thread asking why Liberals are not fighting Sharia Law in the M.E.

As I said in the title I don't take my marching orders from xenophobic old farts who have a heart attack when they freak out because the woman he's buying smokies from is wearing a hijab.

First of all, as a Liberal, I believe in cleaning up my own backyard first before I start telling people in other countries what to do with their society and culture

Second, what the fuck is wagging my finger at Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or any other Muslim country really going to do to change anything and why is it my business?

And last but not least, I'm not going to get tricked into supporting bigotry against a population in my country by the crocodile tears these right wing assholes are showing for women's rights when they show none when it concerns non Muslims.

Kiss my ass

[Odin2005]

1. Standing up to women's rights is BIGOTRY and XENOPHOBIA?

:wtf:

[Kid Dynamite]

4. Standing up for women's rights when it

fits in with the Democratic Party Line, you mean

Thats not so small a distinction

[Beacho]

5. It's bullshit

It's a disingenuous attack on Liberals and/or Leftists because they won't join in the Holy Crusade against the Muslim Hordes(tm) attacking the West. Besides there <i>are</i> human rights and feminist groups that <i>do</i> protest the deplorable situation for women in Muslim countries. Let me ask you a question. Where are Pat Condell's videos dealing with sex slavery and the problems of domestic violence in Western countries? Seems his concern for human rights only apply when it's a convenient attack on the 'Muzzies'. What I'm saying is that I only have so much time and energy in any particular day to deal with the problems in the world. Shaking my fist at Pakistan isn't going to do squat and I'm not going to enable cultural bigotry. That would truly make me a 'useful idiot' to these mutts. What's next? I'm going to be berated by the Minutemen because I won't join their anti immigrant crusade to stand up for Latino Rights?. Piss off

[Odin2005]

41. Strawman.

[lies and propaganda]

115. so is your argument

womens rights matter here... sorry dude.

[readmoreoften]

8. How about let's focus on the rape epidemic in the US military where 35% of women

have REPORTED rape by the enlisted, officers, and contractors. These are the people who're going to bring freedom to Afghani women? Sure.

[maglatinavi]

34. epidemic

35% ???

[Odin2005]

40. We can multitask.

Misogyny is a global problem and must be dealt with globally.

[texasleo]

77. Islam is good, America is evil. Read the memo, please.

[TheManInTheMac]

80. Perfect!

I like the way you roll.
:yourock:

[Kid Dynamite]

2. Rejection is a good idea on your part

because liberals have shown about the same "concern" for women's rights in the middle east over time as conservatives have. When it is politically convenient to do so, they "care". Otherwise, well..y'know. Its not personal, its just business..the business of Empire.

[Beacho]

23. Telling other cultures what to do from a sense of supriority

was also the business of Empire

See Kipling's "White Man's Burden".

[Kid Dynamite]

28. Beacho

how is a military operation responsible for millions of deaths conducive to women's rights? How are brutal economic sanctions that deprive millions of women and children conducive to HUMAN rights?

It seems to be the Burden is how to justify the bloodthirsty apetite of Empire..try to humanize it as you will.

[Beacho]

31. We actually agree

And the point I was making is that the kind of demonization that Condell engages is was one of the tools to make all those horrid things happen.

I mention Kipling's phrase as an example of that. How you get supporting Empire by my rejection of this underhanded propaganda technique that enabled Colonialism escapes me.

[Kid Dynamite]

39. Understood

we agree but only to a point. You are calling bleeding heart liberalism for the hypocrisy that it really is. However, in the process you have conflated Colonialism with real and desperate problems regarding the treatment of women

Most of the people in this thread want to make it a matter of Islam or "tribalism" because that fits nicely with the Imperial worldview they have adopted as their own. It is purely a ploy and a threadbare mask for their bigotry and indifference to the lives of "brown" people.

But make no mistake, the plight of women in parts of the Middle East (and a great many places elsewhere in the world) IS one of the defining aspects of any struggle that may arise and in fact is a great determinant of what CAN arise. Of course you are right that our primary calling in America is to give them relief from the pressures of Empire, but that is not the same as nonchalance.

[Warpy]

3. I will continue to speak against the genital mutilation of women

that has such hideous, lifelong health consequences. It turns them into objects for male pleasure, incapable of anything for themselves, while making the resulting childbirth incredibly difficult and dangerous.

However, the hijab, or even the abaya, is none of my business. The lopsided laws aren't really my business as we have the same problem here, just in different flavors. A country's execution methods might be more grotesque to watch than lethal injection, but no more barbaric when one gets to the essence of the act, murder by the state, and we still do that in most parts of this country.

With the exception of that tribally inspired butchery of half the population, I'll agree with you about concentrating on our own problems, first.

You're right that we have more than enough problems in our back yard to occupy our time.

[Beacho]

6. Genital mutilation is not just a 'Muslim' thing

Nor is it part of Sharia Law. It predates Islam, as well Judaism and Christianity. There are many cultural groups, mainly in the Red Sea, that engage in this horrible practice. How much finger wagging will it take to make it stop?

[Taverner]

10. It just happens that Muslims are doing it, that's all

No TRUE muslim would ever do that! :eyes:

[Kid Dynamite]

12. Well at least you stop short of telling us

they are "savages" and "tribal butchers"

I guess thats something

[Taverner]

14. Religion is savage.

How does that sound?

[Kid Dynamite]

17. There was no need explain

I understood from the get-go that you were hard right

I was only being facetious earlier

[Taverner]

24. Yep, that's me, hard right

Dude, you make me laugh

[Kid Dynamite]

30. And I suppose you don't support

US occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Or you don't consider millions of dead to be "savage"? You have a rather blase way of classifying things

Yes I hear your laughter quite clearly..over the din of explosions and the wailing of the survivors

[Taverner]

35. Oh I think we need to get the $%&#@ out of Afpak and Iraq yesterday

Look - - if they want to set up their crazy little fiefdoms built on caveman law, they can go right ahead. And I will do everything I can do make sure their intellectuals are safe and out of harms way - here in the Western World.

It's not our business to change them

However - when they come here, they need to leave their caveman law at the border - we do not tolerate (or at least are not supposed to) intolerance

[Kid Dynamite]

36. Are you listening to yourself?

Do you really think you are not voicing the opinions of the hard right?

[Taverner]

38. No the Hard right wants to invade, kill their leaders and convert them to Xianity

I want to disband the military

Big dif dude...

[Kid Dynamite]

42. You regard Muslims with the exact same disdain and sneering

superiority as any right-winger I can think of. This is reiterated by the extreme xenophobia you display when you make statements to the effect of "leave that shit at the border when you come into MY country"

In fact, I would say the diffence is the far right is forced to be much more careful and reserved in how they express their bigotry simply because no one is willing to listen to their hatespeech shit. You don't even try to sugarcoat yours.

[Taverner]

52. I have disdain for anyone who would make their women wear burkas, or hajibs "just because"

It says it in the Koran is not good enough for me, and neither is it says it in the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, or any other "holy" (read: bullshit) book.

[Odin2005]

43. Did you ever quit beating your wife?

Wow, a supposed liberal calling women's rights "Hard Right Imperialism". That's disgusting.

[Kid Dynamite]

44. You should go back to the caviar dreams of "Generation M"

[Odin2005]

46. I live on $1,200 gross income per month, no money for caviar.

[Kid Dynamite]

49. Thats why its a dream

maybe you can get a microloan from fellow Gen M'er Muhammed Yunus

[omega minimo]

53. You should start a Group for the little band of instigators

and stay there.

[Taverner]

54. Yes this seems like an interesting variation on the "sympathy troll"

[omega minimo]

55. always with the barbs.

:thumbsdown:

[Taverner]

57. Hey - I'm a Barbie...er, a barbist?

A barber? A barberer?

Sorry - I just get a little peeved when called a Hard Right Conservative

[omega minimo]

66. no, barbaric

and sorry, I was referring to the other poster. :hi:

[mamaleah]

13. It also happens in non Muslim countries

Under old tribal customs. But it is also un-pc to mention that.

[Taverner]

16. BUT - always always ALWAYS for religious reasons

It's like saying the KGB was not bad, it was only a few bad apples who did all the mass murdering...

[mamaleah]

18. Ahhh

But of course, bashing major religions is only pc. Bashing "tribal customs" is a no-no.

It's the PC Dance.

[Taverner]

21. I'm not too big on tribal customs either

Tribal customs in Northern Thailand were for the fathers to sell their daughters like slaves. Nothing religous about that.

But religion is all to convenient of an excuse.

[mamaleah]

25. Yes but unless it includes a major religion,

it's untouchable for many trying to dance the pc dance.

[anigbrowl]

99. There is a logical fallacy here

Female Genital Mutilation is bad.
Some Muslims engage in this practice.
Therefore Islam is bad.

In reality, the practice is rejected in many Muslim societies, while being tolerated or encouraged in others - possibly because it predates Islam. In Ethiopia, where the practice is rife, it is endorsed by Muslim clerics, but also practiced by ethiopian Jews (even though there is no tradition of this in Judaism, which limits itself to men's private parts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting#Islam (scroll down for info about other religions)

[Kid Dynamite]

11. You missed the part where he mentioned

"tribally inspired butchery"

You don't need a magic decoder ring to decipher what means..

[Warpy]

29. It means exactly what it says

It's a tribal custom that predates Islam.

Sometimes it's not code. Sometimes people who see everything as being code are just paranoid.

[Odin2005]

45. Wow, decrying barbaric abuses of human rights is right-wing thinking?

Your mind is twisted.

[Kid Dynamite]

51. I don't hear you decrying barbaric abuses of human rights

perpetrated by the Democratic Party. And, not so coincidentally, those abuses far outweigh anything you are "decrying"

[Taverner]

63. What, like the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq?

I don't think we have to prove our mettle on this issue - it sickens me and I have no idea why Obama, who ran on an anti war platform (well, at least against one of them) is keeping this shit going on...

[Kid Dynamite]

68. Do you truly think that is the extent of US Imperialism??

It is not even remotely believable that you have "no idea" why Obama would "keep this shit going on"

[Taverner]

74. Oh god no - but I'm the one guessing here

I mean, shit, if you want imperialism against Islam all you have to do is look up Gen. Pershing.

[sandnsea]

7. Read Three Cups of Tea

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/index.php?m=200803&paged=2

http://www.threecupsoftea.com/

http://www.ikat.org

[Taverner]

9. Sorry, Sharia law is fucked up, inhumane and just plain evil

I have no tolerance for religion, and even less for a religion that wants to turn back the clock to the BC years...

[mamaleah]

15. Then you probably shouldn't say BC

BCE, before Common Era, is used by scientists and non Christians.

[Taverner]

20. BC, BCE, PreJeebus, whatever

IN any case, any law based not on reason but "just because" should be jettisoned, along with its followers

[mamaleah]

22. So....you wish to jettison our President?

And a good share of the country?

Good luck with that, Josef.

[Taverner]

26. Re-read my post - what I said was those who prefer arcane law to reason

Obama does not prefer arcane law to reason

Bush did, however...

[mamaleah]

32. Again

Our President is Christian. If you believe the religious should be jettisoned, well....good luck with that.

[Taverner]

33. I do not mind Christians who value reason over faith

Jimmy Carter stands out as a perfect example

[Beacho]

19. So are a lot of things

One of those things is to target a culture based on acts done by a few to smear an entire cultural group.

Another is to use specious arguments to cajole and trick others into suppressing another group's rights.

[Taverner]

27. I don't want to suppress it, just riddicule it for what it is

Fairy tales

[GoneOffShore]

37. And you should ridicule it for what it is - Mass delusion and fairy tales

I'm with you T.

Religion, "Tribal customs" and other assorted nonsense needs to go the way of the dodo. Best viewed through a glass display case as curiosities.

[Odin2005]

65. +1

[Karenina]

61. HAL-LO Beacho!

Condell is a Limbaugh wannabe. What a nasty little man he is. Reminds me of Joe Pyne. I'm dating myself with that reference.. :hi:

[Odin2005]

47. +1

[TheManInTheMac]

48. So take that, Amnesty International!

You bunch of right wing assholes. :sarcasm:

[Beacho]

78. Thank you for proving my point

That Pat Condell is full of shit when he says that no left wing group, such as Amnesty International, speaks out against the abuses occurring in Muslim countries. You should send him a note. The point of this was that Condell, and his supporters, are accusing 'The Left' of actually supporting Sharia law and the excesses of Muslim extremism because we(being Liberals/leftists) don't join their Muslim bashing fest. You should send him a note telling him how full of shit he is.

Thanks

[TheManInTheMac]

79. If that's what he said, he is full of shit.

I don't know who Pat Condell is, nor do I care. Amnesty International speaks out against any abuses. Your OP seems to suggest that Sharia Law is just fine by you. Or at least that it is no business of the United States. Well, we are a member of the UN, thus part of the global community. We can condemn human rights abuses, and we do, and we should continue to do.

[Beacho]

90. I'll give you the link so you can decide for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs

Notice the title of the video is "Apologists For Evil"

And no, Sharia law is not 'just fine by me' neither is using the facts of a despotic government to demonize a cultural group. My point with Condell and his ilk is that they are very specific in their condemnations and are just looking to demonize Muslims inside their own countries. Condell is actually using the term 'useful idiots' and the old canard of claiming that Liberals are a 'fifth column' for the enemy du jour

While you're there, you should also check out his 'Ban The Burqa' video. His lame ass apologists use the old lame 'he's just joking' Limbaugh excuse. Do you buy it?

[Laelth]

50. +2

Our culture has its own problems. It is the height of arrogance for us to preach to the rest of the world (even if we're right).

:dem:

-Laelth

[omega minimo]

59. Promoting global women's rights does not = "the height of arrogance."

It is the "height of arrogance" to hide behind "PC" and "xenophobic" and "NIMBY" to avoid dealing with global issues.

It's a can of worms and it's not Either/Or, either.

It is very difficult for people to see the Big Picture. let alone address it, which is why it is impossible to have such a discussion on DU.

This OP was started to continue a thread that was locked and acknowledges it at top.

Her thread was locked as "controverisal" and "broadbrush" and this ham handed, arrogant, chauvinistic, broadbrush OP is just FINE?

:thumbsdown:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6148853

[Laelth]

81. I hear your anger and frustration.

In no way did I intend to belittle or minimize the significance of global womens' issues.

But we have little right to preach from the position of the U.S. We are in no way a beacon of light when it comes to human rights. Remember Abu Graib?

That was my point.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Odin2005]

82. But words of truth coming from the mouth of a hypocrite are still true.

[omega minimo]

84. Okay are these profound posts really Odin2005

or are you channeling? :evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

88. Maybe it was the kung pao chicken I had for lunch...

:evilgrin:

[omega minimo]

89. or perhaps "a bad bit of potato"

or that light emitting from your epidermis............. :think:

[Odin2005]

91. LOL!

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

92. yeah I know the sciencey words and stuff

:hi: and if the atmosphere was less toxic, would love to be part of the speed o' light, string theory, holographic discussion.

[omega minimo]

83. Understood. And

"n no way did I intend to belittle or minimize the significance of global womens' issues."

I didn't think that you did, was venting about the OP. :hi:

[Laelth]

86. Cool.

And peace. :hi:

:dem:

-Laelth

[omega minimo]

87. Thanks Laelth.

Another DU miracle.

I've been seeing people NOT jumping down each other's throats quite a bit lately! :yourock:

[Laelth]

105. Right back at-cha.

:toast:

:dem:

-Laelth

[Confusious]

119. Yes, we do have our problems

But at least we try to move forward ( i.e. women right, gay rights ) not backwards.

[omega minimo]

56. Yes, ask yourself "why is it my business" that women's rights is a global issue.

And work "in your own backyard" from that awareness and perspective. It will accomplish more than "finger wagging."

[Odin2005]

62. That's why I volunteer at a rape and abuse crisis center!

:hi:

[omega minimo]

67. Thank you for doing that, Odin2005.

:hug:

[Odin2005]

75. You're welcome!

:)

[Lorien]

58. Ah, human rights are no longer a liberal concern

or maybe just women's rights? If RW fundies OR Muslims try to keep half the population under their bootheels it's equally wrong in both cases. Geography means little; injustice is still injustice.

[Kid Dynamite]

60. The United States

has MORE than half the world's population under their bootheel. I realize you're quite busy on the fighting injustice circuit, but perhaps sometime you could express your opposition to *that* injustice?

[omega minimo]

69. If you're on the same side, instead of badgering DUers, perhaps make your point

constructively :think:

[Odin2005]

64. +1

If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

[varelse]

71. Condell makes that point

in many of his videos. He's one of my favorite comedians (he started in the pub circuit, apparently) but he's not "PC" enough for some.

[Beacho]

93. "against the onslaught of the intolerant"

This is that histrionic 'ZOMG! MUZZIES ARE GOONA MAKE US LIVE UNDER SHARIA' bullshit that I'm talking about. Thanks for giving a sterling example of the xenophobia that underlies Condell's screeds

I really do appreciate it.

Calm down sport, while these freaks really believe that bin Laden is going to ride an Arabian triumphantly through the streets of London & Washington D.C., you don't buy that shit do you?

[Odin2005]

102. Given that it is a quote written during WW2 I doubt that.

[omega minimo]

70. Well put

[Beacho]

85. False claim

Nobody ever said that human rights wasn't the issue or that it was not a concern. Condell is just trying to concern troll the Left into taking up his cause of using the law in Western countries to vilify and suppress one particular cultural group because, in his case, they're not acting 'British' enough. What he advocates is as much a violation of human rights as any of these fundamentalist nincompoops that give him the ammunition. I will NOT be used as a tool for Condell and his cohort's to marginalize and isolate a community for his Muslim Pogrom by providing him political cover under the guise of 'Western' unity.

This is the asshole that was advocating banning a certain type of clothing. Mind telling me how that accomplishes rights for women in Muslim countries?

[joey5150]

72. whole grains

charity begins at home. maybe "over there" they can have the sha-ree-ahhh thing but here im comfortable with the sec-you-lar law. goddless. thats me. so fix stuff here first. and 4 fuks sake don't bring that shit home just 'cause its foreign n fasinating....

[UnseenUndergrad]

73. This is what I said...

If you're serious about wanting to fix things, you can do 3 things:

1. help bankrupt Saudi Arabia and the other Wahhabist hellholes that infect other Muslim communities with their fundementalist bulshit through funding.

2. Donate to International Orgs that lend assistance to porgressive groups inside the countries in question.

3. Realize that European Nations (including the Netherlands) are not America. In that politicians can be flagrant, raging liberals on most, if not all domestic social and economic issues, but still have an unsettling xenophobic streak as European accomplishments such as Gay rights, lax drug laws and the European Enlightenment are tribalized.

Hysteria is whipped up by the Hard Right against long-time (and short-time) immigrant communities by the implication that they will try to take these essential freedoms (that even the hard right may not like) away from the native populations with the implimentation of "Sharia law", which the mob automatically connects with Saudi Arabia, the Taliban and Iran. The same sort of hysteria is thrown up with frontpage splashes of honor-murder trials and alleged rape-sprees by immigrants, always implying that the immigrant communities are savages and don't really deserve to live there anyway (unless, of course, they assimilate amazingly fast).

Of course, decades of neglect ans isolation whitewashed as "multiculturalism" doesn't help.

I siad this on the last thread, but I got flamed by the usual suspects.

[Beacho]

94. Well said

and, as far as I know there are plenty of 'libruhls' that do all those things. I wish I was in a position to do even more, but we all have limited resources. All we can say is that we all do our best and it's still better than doing nothing at all. I wish I had read your post earlier, because you made my point much better than I did

Thanks

[saltpoint]

76. I like a global village. And the possibility -- even the likelihood -- of

someone in Bolivia or the Ukraine becoming good friends with someone in Kenya or Canada or Japan.

I just flat-out, ass-over-teacups, full-slobber, just-cut-the-back-yard love the idea.

The computer gives us the internet and that rubs the sticks together to make the electronic fire we sit around to get those friends together.

The call for equality and justice for women or anyone else is going to be made, whether slowly by horse and boats or rapidly by email and web postings.

[Malikshah]

95. Condell knows squat about shari'a and those who are worshipping at his altar of inanity

need to educate themselves on the reality of the world in which they live.

[Marr]

96. This liberal doesn't think sexism and medieval thinking should be embraced.

When these values are imported into a country, as they are being imported all over Europe by Muslim immigrants, they *should* be called out and they *should* be ridiculed.

I'm against Muslim Fundamentalism in the same way I'm against Christian Fundamentalism. They're both cancers that eat away at rational society, and they're both real threats to it.

[Beacho]

97. Neither does any other Liberal

I think the consensus is joining up with the immigrant bashers and people who don't like the culture of the Muslims is not the way to go in dealing with the issue

The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Also, it's been said that you should never underestimate your enemy, but you should also never underestimate the price you'll pay for your 'allies'.

[Marr]

98. You seem to equate any criticism with "immigrant bashing".

Really-- how could someone raise this issue without your perceiving it as xenophobia or bigotry? I think this is a real issue and a modern society needs to defend itself from the slow rot of religious fundamentalism.

[anigbrowl]

101. But the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend

Xenophobia and bigotry are not worthy of embrace either.

[Marr]

110. Of course not-- but burying your head in the sand is not the opposite of

xenophobia. Refusing to accept sexism and bigotry is not itself an act of bigotry.

There's a very thin line here between bigotry and simply acknowledging real, tangible problems-- I'll be the first to admit it. For instance, I think Bush was right when he described Islamic fundamentalism as a real threat to peaceful, modern societies. His prescription was 180 degrees wrong, and his motives couldn't have been lower-- but the observation in itself was, I think, accurate.

I think religious fundamentalism is one of the biggest problems we face as a species, now that we have nuclear weapons. I think we should be doing everything we can to marginalize fundamentalists and keep them as far from power as possible-- both at home and abroad. I don't think we do ourselves any favors by servicing our conscience here. You may want to just wave a hand and say, "oh, too each his own", but I think we have a larger responsibility where it concerns irrational belief systems now.

[anigbrowl]

113. I'm not suggesting giving fundamentalism a pass

but when it comes to how you respond to it, one can pick and choose. I mean, I could give you a whole list of right-wing media outlets that are firm objectors to Islamic fundamentalism, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily nice or trustworthy.

[Marr]

114. Absolutely.

And that's the biggest problem I have when thinking about this issue. I'm not at all convinced that the prescription we'd come up with wouldn't be worse than the malady, if you know what I mean.

I remember the days right after 9-11, when Bush kept talking about how we needed to 'rethink our foreign policy' and mitigate the religious fundamentalists' hold on the Middle East. I was so naive that I actually thought he'd been jarred into recognizing global poverty as a threat to national security, among other things. It took about 4 days to see that I had it upside-down.

The only other voices I really hear talking about the threat posed by religious fundamentalism are fascists, and their "solutions" are repulsive. Not to mention they seem to focus purely on Islamic fundamentalists, while holding hands with Christian theocrats.

[Odin2005]

103. +1

[Strong Atheist]

100. "Why is it my business?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...



Edited:

http://www.serendipity.li/cda/niemoll.html

Guess we should never do anything about problems that do not affect us directly...

[charlie]

104. That's the money quote

That's makes the complaint absurd. Condell's a bigot? Fine. Don't like meddling from a place of superiority? Fine. This is none of our business? Like Apartheid was none of our business?



Not so fine.

[Beacho]

106. Why don't you post old WWI posters of Huns raping nuns while you're at it

That picture has been debunked as staged hokum several times. I'll remember you 'charlie' as someone who doesn't mind using lies and shocking imagery to fool people. You're scum

[charlie]

107. "I'll remember you 'charlie'"...

... he said, scribbling in his list of Scum Who Called My Natterings Absurd. They'll pay someday, OH THEY'LL PAY.

Lol, you're acting like a toon.

That picture has been debunked as staged hokum several times.

Show me.

[Beacho]

116. Why don't you show me the source for the photo?

Or the context? A date? a place? That photo is as phony as a three dollar bill

[omega minimo]

109. You used the photo as an excuse to deflect from the excellent points made there

:thumbsdown:

Women's rights is a global issue and hopefully you will adjust the attitude you took in the OP. Please read my other post to you and consider.

[Strong Atheist]

111. Yeah, I noticed he could not respond to my

points...

:toast:

[omega minimo]

112. Well put SA and also charlie's comments

"That's makes the complaint absurd. Condell's a bigot? Fine. Don't like meddling from a place of superiority? Fine. This is none of our business? Like Apartheid was none of our business?"

Interesting that the power of the pocketbook and disinvestment was used to bring down apartheid -- but not exercised to protect ourselves from corporate takeover of our government.

Wonder if a campaign like that could work again for human rights and hunger issues.

The whole turnaround of Bono's "Red" consumerist campaign seems the opposite...............

[Juche]

108. We should clean up our own backyard

We can't talk seriously about the rule of law, human rights or responsible international relations in other countries until we fix the problems in our own.

Second, just knowing people in other countries oppose an evil measure can help empower people in those home countries. Look up the conformity studies of Asch or the authority studies of Milgram. What they found is that most people will obey destructive social norms, unless an authority or conformity figure opposed them. Simply having the US government and US people say 'this is wrong' can be very empowering to people in foreign countries, and I wish to god foreign countries would do the same to us. I would love it if France, the UK and Canada all said the US needed to implement universal healthcare as a human rights issue.

[Ladyhawk]

117. I agree with Pat Condell. nt

[armyowalgreens]

118. Coming from a very young liberal, your OP is epic failure.

unrec.

[Confusious]

120. BS

I've seen almost all of his videos.

If you equate him being pissed about fundie Muslims trying to twist the institutions of the U.K., such as free speech and tolerance, then yes I guess you would say that.

Then again, you would also probably say I'm an anti-Semite if I criticize Israel.

BS